Hospitalization and surgery with no insurance

[disfan07]

We have insurance, but I know our hospital takes 50% off of the bill for anyone who is uninsured or carries an inusrance carrier that the hospital accepts.

If you have insurance but it is not accepted by the hospital, you get charged full amount.

My last hospitalization in dec. for 6 days totaled $52,000. The insurance company ended up being billed for $26,000.

We were told that my surgery and ICU stay in 10 days alone will total around $200,000...that does not include the other 4-5 nights or any possible complications or doctors bills. The insurance company will probably end up being billed between $150,000 and $200,000. Luckily we are covered 100% right now but I can't imagine the choice we would have to make if we did not have insurance

Our hospital also has financial aid help for people without insurance. I know it is different depending on the hospital.
My old hospital in virginia would not accept you as a patient if you did not have insurance. It was a private hospital and only accepted private insurance (no unisured, and no medicaid).
My hospital now is a privately funded non-profit hospital and while they are not required to care for uninsured or medicaid patients like the county or public hospitals are, they choose to and they have help available

As for the if you have a job you should have insurance comments....don;t even get me started on that...it would get me banned

 

[smidgy]

I know, my job doesn't offer benefits. I was just thinking that if you have a job you would buy insurance. I know it's expensive but it should be a priority.

so, since your job doesn't offer benefits, you buy your own insurance.? OR, are you covered under your spouse's insurance.? I'm thinking it's the second situation, so you really aren't speaking from experience.

what would you do if the company your husband worked for all his life went under? and after doing things "right" your whole adult life, you find yourself , near retirement age, with no health insurance and pre-existing conditions?

One day you, too , may suddenly find yourself in a situation you never thought you would be in.

if insurance was "pooled" for individuals and families (outside of work, disregarding pre-existing conditions), it would be affordable and available. until then, many people find themselves on the outside, looking in.

 

[bumbershoot]

Yeah, sorry- I was just surprised by the question I guess. I don't know about you guys...but the person who posted was talking about a co-worker, and I personally couldn't begin to fathom why some of my co-workers do what they do.

The pp was talking about a "coworker's husband". Not all jobs offer insurance to spouses. Not everyone can afford to buy unsubsidized (by the others in your work "pool") insurance.



Last year this time, we were under subsized COBRA for a month. With it subsidized, we were paying around the same amount we do now. We learned that DH's company pays OVER $700 per month for the three of us, with us kicking in around $300. If it hadn't been subsidized, that's over 1K. Impossible. And even just running the numbers for average healthy people on the other insurance websites it was going to be more, unless I took maternity off (and I"m not willing to do that yet, even though I don't ever want to USE maternity insurance, hoping to just pay OOP for a midwife and be done with it)...and that's before we put in DH's weight, the pituitary tumor that is causing most of the weight, the blood sugar stuff that led us to the endocrinologist that discovered the pituitary tumor (well, we told him what tests to run, he did so, it was found). Or put in MY weight. If we'd had to go that route, with those things, it was going to be probably, oh, half of DH's salary? Probably more? Simply not possible.

I don't agree with newbie gov't run healthcare, but I sure do wish that all those years of me using NOTHING from my insurance could give us "credits" to use towards lowering premiums, etc. Hey, that's a nice idea!

 

[ajk912]

Sure, but many people have bad priorities.

Ditto. There are exceptions, but in general, I don't understand not having health insurance in this day and age. I totally get the pre-existing conditions and how some people can be uninsurable through a private policy. This is us, because my daughter has a lot of health problems. One of us HAS to work at a job that has group coverage (where individuals can't be kicked off). My DH would LOVE to start his own business, and I told him...no way, you can't, not until I am done with college and can carry a job with health insurance. No one would insure our family. So I get temporary measures..I am just taking this job to pay the bills for NOW, until I find something with health insurance...but then hopefully you had COBRA from your last job to buy you some time, and I believe that's for 18 months.

To me, insurance is more important that your own house, or even a car. If you can't afford insurance, you don't live on your own, you would bring in a roommate or live with family. You wouldn't have your own car, you would move to a place that offered public transportation so you only have to buy a bus pass (usually reasonable). You would eliminate the extras (and yes, a car is an extra!!!), cable is an extra, etc.. till you can afford health insurance which is a NEED.

Obviously, there are exceptions, and if you are that person don't feel bad. Someone who got fired from their job and has a debilitating illness and cannot work, period...I am so sorry and that's different. I am not talking about those situations. I am talking about the people who just make bad choices and play the "I can't afford it" card.

 

[seashoreCM]

Believe it or not, housing that is in reach of public transportation costs more than housing that is not. Ergo I regard a car as a necessity, not an extra.

For the topic of this thread, a bicycle is not a viable alternative to a car. There is too much of a potential for generating more health expenses.

Sure but some people have bad priorities

We should start with, "Sure but some people have good priorities" and then launch into ...

Ditto. There are exceptions.

-------------------------------------------------
I do not call it bad priority if I set aside the same amount of money per capita for my family's health care as the average all American family does and, due to pecularities about my health or my employable skills, I end up costing society money.

His hospital bill was astronomical. ... The hosptial was telling him to file bankrupcty as soon as he was admitted.elp.

I don't think this is right. All the bills occurring after the bankruptcy filing will be live and you cannot file for bankruptcy again for seven years. But it is wise to see a bankruptcy attorney.

Now if the bills months later are expressed semantically as indebtedness together with (taxable) forgiveness, then filing for bankruptcy may still be considered.

Health hints: http://www.cockam.com/health.htm

 

[LovableGluttons]

Anyone seen "Sicko" by Michael Moore?


Remember http://http://hookacanuck.com/ ?

My husband served 21 years in the military so we would have good health insurance when he retired. I understand that isn't always an option for people, but it is how my family handles health insurance.

OP, I hope she feels better soon and gets some help with her bill.

Since some of the financial support to write off these big hospital bills comes from charity, please remember to continue to donate to them, even spare change. As you can see by the posts in this thread, real people benefit from people's giving nature.

 

[iwrbnd]

To the person that has a pre-existing condition that won't get covered by insurance, I completely get that and I'm sorry for what you're going through! That is why I've always thought we needed insurance reform worse than health care reform but Washington never asked me!

 

[jandel]

"We have insurance, but I know our hospital takes 50% off of the bill for anyone who is uninsured..."


I don't think is fair either. Let me explain...we are very fortunate to have insurance for our family thru DH's job - at a cost of $120 a month. I know this seems cheap but we have a $1250 deductible per person then 80% with 5k oop max. This insurance is so different than what I'm used to...no doctor co-pays period until deductible is met.

So, my doctor's office charges $91.00 for quick visit and offers a discount for paying that day in cash...that comes to $42.00 for the visit. Pretty cheap, right?

Last week Dh was taken to the hospital with chest pains and admitted to the cardiac care unit. After much testing a heart attack was ruled out but they found a pulmonary embolism (blood clot) in his lung. Terrifying to me but he got on medication (don't even ask what the injections cost) and is going to be okay. He was there for 5 days...3 in the cardiac care unit.

The day we got home from the hospital I get a call from the hospital financial office. His bill is over 26K but they have a great offer for us. They figured after the deductible and BCBS paying 80% we would owe almost 5k BUT if we could pay "today" they would give us a 20% discount leaving a balance of a little over 4K. And how would I be paying today to take advantage of this great offer???

Needless to say, I was (and still am) on an emotional rollercoaster and not in any shape to deal with this right now. I'm sure we will have medical bills from various doctors, labs, etc for months to come. I don't even know where we are on our deductible since we have paid some to the doctor's office this year. I told her I would contact them after talking to our insurance company. I know it is their job to collect any money due but I feel like DH's hospital bed was still warm!


So we have insurance and pay our premiums and still can have thousands of dollars we will owe after they have paid. While I am very grateful for the insurance I kind of resent the deep discounts and bills being paid by charities. I have a charitable nature and am all about helping the less fortunate, but we work very hard for what we have and try our best to pay everything we owe and we still struggle at times like this. I guess that 20% discount offer from the hospital was all we are going to get. I guess we are what you would call the working poor. We make to much for any assistance but not enough for any unexpected medical crisis.

Thanks for letting me rant here...and please don't take this as me saying that people in bad circumstances don't deserve a helping hand - I just wish it were more equitable.

 

[Tink-aholic]

For those posters who say they are "uninsurable" due to pre-existing conditions, I would like to clarify that information so other readers don't get the wrong information.

Due to the HIPAA legislation passed in 1996, an insurance company cannot legally deny anyone insurance because of a pre-existing condition as long as they haven't been without insurance for more than two consecutive months. That means that if you take out COBRA for a short period of time (and now it is subsidized for many people), then your new insurance has to accept you 100%.

In addition, people who go over the uninsured time limit and are susceptible to the pre-existing clause, they still aren't "uninsurable". It means that their one or two pre-existing conditions won't be paid for a protracted period of time (usually 18 months). So, a patient who has pre-existing diabetes pays for all treatment for that diagnosis, but insurance will pay if that patient needs an emergency appendectomy or breaks his arm. After the waiting period, diabetes will be covered for that patient...along with everything else.

Health care costs only go up as one gets older. If you find yourself uninsured, it is better to "bite the bullet" now, buy an insurance policy, and wait out the waiting period. You'd have to pay for your own treatment out-of-pocket, anyway.

This is federal legislation, so the only thing that would vary by state is the insurance companies, the cost of the plans, and their individual waiting period policies.

 

[LilyWDW]

Due to the HIPAA legislation passed in 1996, an insurance company cannot legally deny anyone insurance because of a pre-existing condition as long as they haven't been without insurance for more than two consecutive months. That means that if you take out COBRA for a short period of time (and now it is subsidized for many people), then your new insurance has to accept you 100%.

I thought there was something like this. Thank you for the information! I am looking to switch to another insurance as what I get through my school is pretty much JUST for emergency situations. I would only be without for about 30 days max due to when I would have the money to pay for another type. I appreciate that information.

 

[ajk912]

Believe it or not, housing that is in reach of public transportation costs more than housing that is not. Ergo I regard a car as a necessity, not an extra.

For the topic of this thread, a bicycle is not a viable alternative to a car. There is too much of a potential for generating more health expenses.


We should start with, "Sure but some people have good priorities" and then launch into ...

-------------------------------------------------
I do not call it bad priority if I set aside the same amount of money per capita for my family's health care as the average all American family does and, due to pecularities about my health or my employable skills, I end up costing society money.

I don't think this is right. All the bills occurring after the bankruptcy filing will be live and you cannot file for bankruptcy again for seven years. But it is wise to see a bankruptcy attorney.

Now if the bills months later are expressed semantically as indebtedness together with (taxable) forgiveness, then filing for bankruptcy may still be considered.

Health hints: http://www.cockam.com/health.htm

I have lived in three states and I have never seen this. Normally the housing that is off the bus route is in a suburbian area and thus more expensive. The cheaper housing is on the bus route, more towards the centers of the cities. The cheapest housing would be on the bus route or way out in the rural areas. The normal suburbs are the priciest, or certain developments close to the city central- but for the most part, if it's on the bus route it's cheaper.

Not sure how a bike causes more health risks, biking is great for your health, it keeps your weight down, great exercise!!! Most people who bike to work are in great health.

 

[ajk912]

"We have insurance, but I know our hospital takes 50% off of the bill for anyone who is uninsured..."


I don't think is fair either. Let me explain...we are very fortunate to have insurance for our family thru DH's job - at a cost of $120 a month. I know this seems cheap but we have a $1250 deductible per person then 80% with 5k oop max. This insurance is so different than what I'm used to...no doctor co-pays period until deductible is met.

So, my doctor's office charges $91.00 for quick visit and offers a discount for paying that day in cash...that comes to $42.00 for the visit. Pretty cheap, right?

Last week Dh was taken to the hospital with chest pains and admitted to the cardiac care unit. After much testing a heart attack was ruled out but they found a pulmonary embolism (blood clot) in his lung. Terrifying to me but he got on medication (don't even ask what the injections cost) and is going to be okay. He was there for 5 days...3 in the cardiac care unit.

The day we got home from the hospital I get a call from the hospital financial office. His bill is over 26K but they have a great offer for us. They figured after the deductible and BCBS paying 80% we would owe almost 5k BUT if we could pay "today" they would give us a 20% discount leaving a balance of a little over 4K. And how would I be paying today to take advantage of this great offer???

Needless to say, I was (and still am) on an emotional rollercoaster and not in any shape to deal with this right now. I'm sure we will have medical bills from various doctors, labs, etc for months to come. I don't even know where we are on our deductible since we have paid some to the doctor's office this year. I told her I would contact them after talking to our insurance company. I know it is their job to collect any money due but I feel like DH's hospital bed was still warm!


So we have insurance and pay our premiums and still can have thousands of dollars we will owe after they have paid. While I am very grateful for the insurance I kind of resent the deep discounts and bills being paid by charities. I have a charitable nature and am all about helping the less fortunate, but we work very hard for what we have and try our best to pay everything we owe and we still struggle at times like this. I guess that 20% discount offer from the hospital was all we are going to get. I guess we are what you would call the working poor. We make to much for any assistance but not enough for any unexpected medical crisis.

Thanks for letting me rant here...and please don't take this as me saying that people in bad circumstances don't deserve a helping hand - I just wish it were more equitable.

I agree with you, I am also quite resentful that I pay a ton of money in premiums, copays, and deductibles..and are going to be on medical payment plans for the rest of my life (or close to it) for trying to do the right thing..but people can get it all written off. It's definitely not equitable, especially when you see people who "can't afford it" living better than you do.

 

[Planogirl]

People's situations vary and some people who do try to do the right thing get buried under medical bills. I see people with bankruptcies who have unbelievable medical bills included in that bankruptcy. I don't know if they had insurance or not in most cases but a few have said they did. Just their part of the bills might be astronomical though.

It's not easy to get insurance for some either. It's fine to tell people to get Cobra but has anyone here ever priced Cobra for a family? It can take months to find a job after a layoff and sometimes savings are drained and it becomes more of a priority to eat than to keep the insurance.

I have a friend that was laid off and he tried to go into business on his own. He did alright but the insurance costs were crazy. He paid them for a while but then during the financial bad times he let the insurance go. A mistake? Possibly but it was hard to survive much less keep the insurance paid up.

 

[Jaklackus]

For those posters who say they are "uninsurable" due to pre-existing conditions, I would like to clarify that information so other readers don't get the wrong information.

Due to the HIPAA legislation passed in 1996, an insurance company cannot legally deny anyone insurance because of a pre-existing condition as long as they haven't been without insurance for more than two consecutive months. That means that if you take out COBRA for a short period of time (and now it is subsidized for many people), then your new insurance has to accept you 100%.

In addition, people who go over the uninsured time limit and are susceptible to the pre-existing clause, they still aren't "uninsurable". It means that their one or two pre-existing conditions won't be paid for a protracted period of time (usually 18 months). So, a patient who has pre-existing diabetes pays for all treatment for that diagnosis, but insurance will pay if that patient needs an emergency appendectomy or breaks his arm. After the waiting period, diabetes will be covered for that patient...along with everything else.

Health care costs only go up as one gets older. If you find yourself uninsured, it is better to "bite the bullet" now, buy an insurance policy, and wait out the waiting period. You'd have to pay for your own treatment out-of-pocket, anyway.

This is federal legislation, so the only thing that would vary by state is the insurance companies, the cost of the plans, and their individual waiting period policies.

So I can sue Blue Cross & Blue Shield, and Humana, and Aetna for denying my husband and I private policies multiple times over?

 

[Mommee]

I have lived in three states and I have never seen this. Normally the housing that is off the bus route is in a suburbian area and thus more expensive. The cheaper housing is on the bus route, more towards the centers of the cities. The cheapest housing would be on the bus route or way out in the rural areas. The normal suburbs are the priciest, or certain developments close to the city central- but for the most part, if it's on the bus route it's cheaper.

Not sure how a bike causes more health risks, biking is great for your health, it keeps your weight down, great exercise!!! Most people who bike to work are in great health.

Whether the housing is on the bus route is irrelevant if the place of employment is NOT.

You answered yourself with the bike. Those that bike to work are in great health. For them, it's great exercise. But what about the rest of the population? The guy with the bad knees that's trying to avoid surgery? Or the lady with lupus that must avoid the sun? Etc, etc, etc...

----------------

As for the hospital bills, our hospital just got this great new program that allows them access to real-time insurance information. For us, it was great news yesterday when DS was stung repeatedly and had an allergic reaction. We've met our OOP max for the year, and they changed their minds about treatment and DS was given the expensive meds that would last several days and reduce the chances that he would have a secondary reaction at a later time.
But it REALLY disturbed me. Would he have not gotten the best treatment option available if they knew they'd be billing me personally for the cost? I'm not for sure that our insurance status was what changed the treatment, but it certainly seems to be.

 

[Acklander]

So I can sue Blue Cross & Blue Shield, and Humana, and Aetna for denying my husband and I private policies multiple times over?

If you sue them, let me know, since I'm unable to buy insurance as well.

 

[Janell]

Im sorry I didn't read the whole thread. Some hospitals have cash discounts they will offer. It can mean a lot of things at different places, so ask to see what they offer and if that works for her. Hope she is feeling better.

 

[iwrbnd]

For those posters who say they are "uninsurable" due to pre-existing conditions, I would like to clarify that information so other readers don't get the wrong information.

Due to the HIPAA legislation passed in 1996, an insurance company cannot legally deny anyone insurance because of a pre-existing condition as long as they haven't been without insurance for more than two consecutive months. That means that if you take out COBRA for a short period of time (and now it is subsidized for many people), then your new insurance has to accept you 100%.

In addition, people who go over the uninsured time limit and are susceptible to the pre-existing clause, they still aren't "uninsurable". It means that their one or two pre-existing conditions won't be paid for a protracted period of time (usually 18 months). So, a patient who has pre-existing diabetes pays for all treatment for that diagnosis, but insurance will pay if that patient needs an emergency appendectomy or breaks his arm. After the waiting period, diabetes will be covered for that patient...along with everything else.

Health care costs only go up as one gets older. If you find yourself uninsured, it is better to "bite the bullet" now, buy an insurance policy, and wait out the waiting period. You'd have to pay for your own treatment out-of-pocket, anyway.

This is federal legislation, so the only thing that would vary by state is the insurance companies, the cost of the plans, and their individual waiting period policies.

Thanks, I'm learning a lot!

 

[THUNDERMOUNTAINMOMMA]

I know, my job doesn't offer benefits. I was just thinking that if you have a job you would buy insurance. I know it's expensive but it should be a priority.

My husband and I both work. Insurance is not offered by either company. BUT, since I have a pre- exisiting condition, I cannot even get health insurance on my own. It's a bad situation.

 

[Tink-aholic]

So I can sue Blue Cross & Blue Shield, and Humana, and Aetna for denying my husband and I private policies multiple times over?

Report them to the federal government via your state's insurance commissioner. Just because it is illegal, it doesn't mean that some companies won't try to get away with it. You'll need written proof of denial and your Certificate of Credible Coverage that came when your last policy ended. How long were you uninsured between policies?

Each of the insurance companies you mentioned MUST take you. BCBS is the largest insurance in the US and has reciprocity agreements with almost all states -- it is known as a "Cadillac" plan. It won't be cheap, but they have to insure you. Just like with auto insurance, your premiums are rated based on the number of claims you have made. Depending upon your preex dx, your premiums will go down after a few years. It would be smarter buying a smaller, lesser-known policy first and waiting out the preex waiting period.

Good luck.