hospital bill....WOW

My son is at a minimum a $16 million kid! That alone is what our private insurance paid out for him in his first 3 years of life. Due to his diagnosis he was eligible for Medicaid during that time, so I'm not sure what they paid. We have regular check-ups throughout the year and just paid off our local Children's Hospital. I told my husband they should just keep us on a permanent payment plan and let us build up a credit balance to use when we come in. :rotfl:
 
2 pre existing diseases, Addison's and Diabetes. And Seizures that breakthrough the expensive meds, that incur an ambulance to the hospitalto get immedeatecare started, this has happened, 7 times in last 3 years. No jobs, no insurance, no way to pay. I can't wait to get what ever help is available thru the Health Care Bill before it all disappears in Novemeber.

Is there room for a family of 3 in Canada??
 
It's crazy how much our insurance discounted everything. No wonder our health care system is out of whack. If people who don't have insurance have to pay those prices, you know there is no way they can pay those crazy amounts.

For fun, I asked the hospital for itemized bills, and they said it could take 10 weeks:sad2:

When I had DD in 2005 it was $22,000... the hospital discounted the insurance's rate to about $9,5000. Back in Dec I was in the emergency room and they had to give me a drug which they needed to be 100% sure I wasn't pregnant. They billed $300 for a pregnancy test! :eek:

Personally, I think the first thing they need to reform is giving itemized bills and go back to giving a detailed Explanation of Benefits from the insurance company. It should be mandatory. When I had surgery in December the bill just said "Medical Center charges" or Medical Group charges."

In the last few years DH and I have caught several mistakes. First, when I had DD they charged for an epidural. I didn't have one, was denied one while in labor. When I called the office of the doctor who supposedly gave me one, the woman said "are you sure you didn't have one?" Good thing she was on the phone and not standing in front of me! I pushed DD for 1 hr and 45 min- I think I would rememeber! pirate: My wellness visit 2 years ago- one test didn't go in as routine care when billed, so wasn't covered at 100%. Had to have the doctor resubmit. This year DH had his wellness visit, all his routine lab work was not entered as routine (which is 100%) and instead our spending acct was charged for the deductible, had to get that resubmitted. Back in Sept my flexible spending account paid my Chiro, they never applied the payment and sent me a bill. I think I now have a credit there! Now if we found those few things by searching our claims on Aetna's website, imagine what we would find if we had itemized bills and EoB's!
 
Hubby had a heart attack last week. So far the only bill we have gotten is the helicopter ride to the Regional Med Center so he could get to the cath lab before damage...20 minutes, $18,000. Can't wait to see the rest.
 

I just recieved my bill from my dd15She was born with pierre robin syndrome, surgery in Jan was 15,000 her surgery in july 2009 67,000 and this didn't include being on a feeding tube for a month(Her jaws her broke and moved forward) she has had 22 surgeries since birth Heart, Kidney ect and is my million dollar baby.She had to have her braces removed to have a MRI and yes i had to pay for them to put them back on.
Hospital bill are outrageous!!
 
Hubby had a heart attack last week. So far the only bill we have gotten is the helicopter ride to the Regional Med Center so he could get to the cath lab before damage...20 minutes, $18,000. Can't wait to see the rest.

I hope is doing well! :hug:
 
You'll probably guess my day job, but...

1) You can't have health reform without tort reform. Because fear of a lawsuit costs me $15K a year for malpractice insurance (not to mention keeps me up at night) and adds to care costs in the form of additional tests. "Failure to diagnose" is a common claim. Some pay upwards of $100K a year.

2) We don't need health reform. We need health insurance reform. Health insurance started 60 or 70 years ago as a job benefit. Now everyone thinks healthcare ought to be free. What we need is to abandon the health insurance industry. Every individual or family should have a health savings account to the tune of $5000-$10000. Then, government-backed single payer system catastrophic health insurance should cover major illnesses and injuries to prevent individual bankruptcy. If you paid that first 5-10K out of pocket, you might think twice about going to the ER for pain meds or a fever in the middle of the night.

3) The reason bills are inflated is precisely because the insurance companies drastically discount them. Same as if you went into a jewelry store having a 50% off sale. The "original" price is jacked up and the "discount" price is about right but you have to do your research to know if the price is truly right.

4) Doctors earn their pay. What other profession carries so much personal risk? Only the best and brightest go to medical school, which is expensive, and those students are taking 7-12 years out of their working career to be in school and residency instead of earning like other college grads. If a doctor doesn't make much money there is no incentive to do well in college, study hard for medical school entrance exams, study and work hard for four years in medical school, enter a competitive residency for 3-7 years, all while incurring debt and working up to 80 hours a week, only to be able to practice in an environment with shrinking rewards and increasing bureaucracy and liabilities. Hillary Clinton thinks $35K a year is fair for doctors. If I wanted to make $35,000 a year, I'd be a school teacher, with my union protections and cushy state benefits and insurance, and have my 8 hr work day and holidays and summer vacations off! Take away the money and you take away the incentive to sign on to this crazy career lifestyle. Limiting doctors' pay or putting them on salary takes away incentive to produce--you end up with doctors like those in the university systems--they see a few patients a couple of days a week, spend the rest of their time researching, writing, or lecturing etc--and the waits to see those doctors can exceed 6 months. Paying doctors according to how many patients they see guarantees they won't be sitting around.

Okay, enough said, I'm heading to work now. To see patients, and take care of their various afflictions, make them feel better, so they can head back to day care, or school, or work, and be productive again. Then they'll complain about the bill, or not pay it, or the insurance company will drastically reduce what I charged for what I did down to pennies. But such is the nature of my work, and I like what I do, and I'll keep doing it. :rolleyes:
 
so in all the other first world countries where they have free or nationalized healthcare, how do they end up with people who want to be doctors?

somehow they are getting by!

I don't want to trivialize anything our doctors have to go through to be where they are, but pp seemed to be OK trivializing teachers' "cushy" jobs :rotfl:.
 
Hubby had a heart attack last week. So far the only bill we have gotten is the helicopter ride to the Regional Med Center so he could get to the cath lab before damage...20 minutes, $18,000. Can't wait to see the rest.

Head's up for when you start getting EOBs and bills and such...

When DS got to have an ambulance ride, they billed the insurance company very first. The insurance system didn't know that there was a bonafide emergency, so they immediately kicked out the non-emergency ambulance percentage.

I would never have realized this if the ambulance company had been reasonable about a discount they offered and then rescinded, and if I hadn't ended up on the phone with them and the insurance company multiple times over many months, just trying to figure out why the discount was offered and why it was then rescinded.

Second to last contact with the insurance company, a rep FINALLY noticed that the ambulance bill had been dealt with incorrectly, and bumped up the percentage that they covered, which resulted in a check sent to us.

And then the ambulance company finally caved in and gave me the $70 discount they had indicated on their first bill. Which meant they'd been paid in full for about 6 months.


So when the other bills start rolling in, make sure the helicopter ride is billed correctly, since it seems it was billed before the other "yes this is an emergency not just a joyride" charges were billed. Might save you a couple bucks.
 
HOLY COW!!! No I brought my own toothbrush....but I did get one of those little bottles of that nasty mouthwash......wonder how much that cost us!!!


I had read about that before I went in to have DS. My policy covered hospital stays (including toiletries) at 100% so I didn't take anything in with me but I requested an itemized bill when I got back.

Nothing. I didn't get billed for toothbrushes, linen services, toiletries... nothing like that. My bill was entirely nursing care, room and board, medications and OR fees (I had a c-section).

The insurance company didn't discount a thing and the hospital got the entire ~$10k. I was surprised.

Then my OB's bill hit. Insurance discounted it down to $2200. She got a measly $2200 for my entire 9 months of prenatal care and delivery.
Such a joke. :sad2:
 
2) We don't need health reform. We need health insurance reform. Health insurance started 60 or 70 years ago as a job benefit. Now everyone thinks healthcare ought to be free. What we need is to abandon the health insurance industry. Every individual or family should have a health savings account to the tune of $5000-$10000. Then, government-backed single payer system catastrophic health insurance should cover major illnesses and injuries to prevent individual bankruptcy. If you paid that first 5-10K out of pocket, you might think twice about going to the ER for pain meds or a fever in the middle of the night.

Not everyone has the opportunity to save that sort of money - especially when you have serious problems at such a young age. I'm 23 and in graduate school, and I too have a ton of loans. I also have a crap ton of medical debt. I'm just unsure as to how a college student is supposed to save up that much money... or people who are making well below the poverty line... what about when you spend that 5-10k on one hospital visit (which is around 30k for something serious), and then have another one right afterwards? I had surgery in May of last year... and just calculated how much longer we will be repaying that debt. I have about 8.5 more years to go before I can be through with that surgery.

I also have a few preexisting conditions. DH just got offered a new job, and we will be switching insurance. Is it okay that, according to their policy manuals, I would have to go 12 months without doctor visits (which I have one every 2-3 months), without prescription help, and without any procedures if they're needed?

Sure, the ER won't turn people away - but ONE ER trip could damage a family's credit for a very, very long time. It's not fair that people should be punished for being sick or hurt. It's not like we get these ailments as punishments for things we do.

For the record, DH do plan to move to Canada in about 7 years time. We're saving and trying to get rid of debts first, so that way we can immigrate easier. We will absolutely NOT be having children until we move and establish citizenship. Due to health problems I will have to undergo extensive therapy to even have a chance of getting pregnant. Guess our salaries should be punished because I was diagnosed with health issues - how dare we try to have children and have money? :confused3
 
Okay, so I have to comment also. Let me ask a question. Why do we always complain about how much doctors make when we have no problem paying a lawyer by time for work? Do you know how much doctors pay to have an education. Most owe somewhere from 150,000 up to 300,000 in debt. Overhead is so high that many doctors are quitting because they cannot pay to stay in business. Yes, doctors do make a good salary, but I also sacrifice a significant portion of their lives going to undergraduate, medical school and then residency before they can even practice medicine. It really irritates me when we always blame the doctors. I will tell you something. If there were not so many people wanting to file lawsuits in this country, doctors could actually use their training and knowledge to make decisions instead of ordering unneeded tests to cover. It is out of hand. Malpractice is out the roof. Also, to those who want socialized medicine. I would look into it further if I were you. I know several people from Canada that hate the system there and bought private insurance to get care. If doctors get paid a standard salary, then there will be no incentive to see more patients and a lot less will go into the profession and alot will get out. So, that means a much longer wait time and no more getting into the doctor quickly for common complaints. An example, you can wait up to a year to get an MRI for a shoulder injury with socialized medicine.

Doctor's charge at a much higher hourly rate then lawyers do. Further, if the person has insurance, the doc gets paid whether or not the patient CAN pay the rate. An attorney has to deal with making sure the client actually DOES pay (we don't get to bill insurance companies to cover our fees usually) Further, many legal plans who will pay fees, pay at such a low rate its even worse then what docs get paid. I have several cases with legal plans that what they are paying doesn't even cover 15% of the time spent on the case.

As for the cost of legal training versus medical training. Hate to break it to you but law school isn't cheap either. Further, many medical students (at least all the ones I knew) moonlighted during their residencies and had the vast majority of their med school loans paid off before they went into real practice (or maybe its just the docs that I know). Heck, one of my friends not only paid off his medical school loans during his surgical residency through moonlighting, but also put his wife through med school.

As for unneeded medical tests... hold on there. Doctor's play percentages, just like insurance companies do. They don't run a test because the likelihood of you having something is too low or because you don't fit the dx criteria perfectly.

I can flat out tell you that I have had 3 doctor's commit malpractice regarding my care and 1 with my hubby's. I haven't sued a single one yet (though I did write a nasty letter to the hospital that the doc in the er screwed up badly) and never planned to.

The biggest problem in ANY service related field is controlling client expectations. Malpractice insurance for doctors is MUCH higher then for attorney's because in general if an attorney screws up, their client may be out time and money. A doc screws up and the client may be dead.

If you have a client that walks in and expects you to solve all their problems and you can't, they will NOT be happy with that outcome, especially if you lead them to beleive that you WILL solve all the problems. Docs are human too and make mistakes.

Finally, medical malpractice cases are VERY EXPENSIVE to litigate on both sides. Lawyers weed out a vast majority of these cases (normally I tell 99% of them to file a complaint with the med board) because

a) there is no harm and therefore no case .. a good example of this is when the doc prescribes a medication incorrectly, but the error is caught before any medication is taken... thus no harm no foul (one of my dh's dentist did this, so frustrated and upset about a tooth pulling gone bad she prescribed him tylonel 3 and he's allergic to codine, of course DH caught it before he got the prescription)

b) the cause of the issue is unclear or not provable. you have to be able to prove that the doc did (or didn't do) something that led to causing the harm. The fact that a doc didn't run some random test that the person had no signs or symptoms for is not usually going to hold up in court

c) its hard to find an expert to testify for medical malpractice -- IE docs don't like testifying against docs

On the other hand, I also find that medical malpractice insurers are quick to settle even if the case has a low chance of winning in front of a jury due to the fact that the litigation is just so expensive.

BTW, I do live in a state with medical tort reform and guess what, the tort reform effects less then 5% of medical malpractice cases and the cases it does effect are those where the person is either dead or severely disabled. Which means that the care of the person is shifted from the negligent (and I use this because tort reform ONLY comes into play AFTER a legal finding that the doc is at fault) doctor to our state/federal medicaid/medicare system. The studies done have shown that the average award has not changed from pre to post reform.
 
So there have been a few posts that either indirectly or directly seem to place the blame for high costs on doctors. I just want to share my personal experience with all of you. I know that some people think doctors make too much money. I can understand that belief because a lot of people don't know how much many doctors really do make and it what it cost to get there.

Many primary care physicians don't even make $100k. You may think, wow I'd love to make that much. But think about what they put in before that. My husband is a 4th year mead student.

This means that while many people can start earning money as soon as they graduate high school or college he passed up 4 more years of income to pay to go to med school. So rather than earning 60-80K/year with his engineering degree he is paying $48,000 per year in tuition plus books, etc. He has no life as he works insane hours. Last month he had 1 day off. After his med school he will go into a 5 year residency where he'll be lucky to get 35K a year. This is while many of our friends are getting promoted and making a very good living. He will not really earn a doctors salary until he is 31 years old. That is 13 years of potential income that he could have been saving. Some doctors may make $200k a year, but they put it 12+years of education after high school and spend those years working non stop.

We've chosen this path so I'm not complaining, but it is hurtful to me when I hear people talk about the greed of doctors. We'd retire better financially if he had not gone into medicine.
 
On pre-existing conditions, you need to check both the 1996 HIPAA federal law and your state laws regarding coverage. Companies are very limited in how they can apply this clause.

Further, even if the clause DOES apply, you can reduce the duration using creditable coverage. Where I live, as long as we have a certificate of creditable coverage and no gap in insurance, employer based group health plans CANNOT impose a pre-existing condition clause.
 
so in all the other first world countries where they have free or nationalized healthcare, how do they end up with people who want to be doctors?

somehow they are getting by!

I don't want to trivialize anything our doctors have to go through to be where they are, but pp seemed to be OK trivializing teachers' "cushy" jobs :rotfl:.

In those other first world countries, medical education is also paid for the government so those young doctors don't start their careers with student loans bigger than most American mortgages. I have friends with more than $200k in undergrad and med school. A lot of them have married other doctors they met in med school and/or residency. It is not unexpected or that strange for a dual physician couple to come out with $500k of student loan debt. I bet most people on this board don't even have houses or total assets worth that much.

To the poster who wrote about residents moonlighting in residency and earning enough to pay off all their loans and support their families...I don't know when and where that was, but as a current third year resident, I promise you I know lots of residents and the vast majority of us can barely keep up with the interest on our student loans let alone make a dent in the principal. And many programs (mine included) forbid moonlighting as we are already working on average 70-80 hours a week (far more for surgeons) for less than a teacher's salary. (I love teachers--my mom is one--but she works probably one quarter to one third as much as I do over the course of a year and earns more than I do.)
 
In those other first world countries, medical education is also paid for the government so those young doctors don't start their careers with student loans bigger than most American mortgages. I have friends with more than $200k in undergrad and med school. A lot of them have married other doctors they met in med school and/or residency. It is not unexpected or that strange for a dual physician couple to come out with $500k of student loan debt. I bet most people on this board don't even have houses or total assets worth that much.

I understand that and I, personally, am not arguing the point that doctors make too much, just countering the other poster's attitude of entitlement :rolleyes: I think you and I both might have the same point (although you stated it more eloquently than I did), which is that you shouldn't become a doctor to get rich. (and I mean that in a because it often doesn't work out that way kind of way, not a holier than though kind of way)
 
In regards to the $30 Tylenol, how do you expect the Tylenol to get purchased and into the hospital inventory system? That costs money. How do you expect to get the Tylenol out of the hospital inventory and to you via a nurse/aid? That costs money. Therefore, your $0.25 Tylenol that you can get at the drug store costs $30.

If you add in your time to go to the store, the gas and wear and tear on your car and the carrying costs on that 'yearly' supply of Tylenol, it is no longer $0.25.

You can't expect to get a Tylenol in the hospital for the same amount you can purchase it for at the local drug store.
 
In regards to the $30 Tylenol, how do you expect the Tylenol to get purchased and into the hospital inventory system? That costs money. How do you expect to get the Tylenol out of the hospital inventory and to you via a nurse/aid? That costs money. Therefore, your $0.25 Tylenol that you can get at the drug store costs $30.

If you add in your time to go to the store, the gas and wear and tear on your car and the carrying costs on that 'yearly' supply of Tylenol, it is no longer $0.25.

You can't expect to get a Tylenol in the hospital for the same amount you can purchase it for at the local drug store.

In that case, that hamburger I got at McDonald's the other day should be about $237, eh?
 
In that case, that hamburger I got at McDonald's the other day should be about $237, eh?


Have you seen how much hospitals charge for the food portion of you overnight bill? There hamburgers are probably $237 :laughing:
 


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