High end food options--a question for dining plan ppl

[Clotho]

I have a question for you all, and would appreciate some well-reasoned and thoughtful responses to it from all sides!

The menus around the property seem to be paring down more and more of their menus to eliminate higher ticket items. Also there has been a general clamor about the reduction in portion sizes, and the decrease in quality of food items available items across the board. It is generally agreed that this is likely due to Disney trying to continue to grow and develop the dining program--they really want to push people to pre-invest in their dining, but don't want to have people on the dining plans (who are already getting a discount on their meal costs) to consistently be ordering the most expensive items to "get the best value" out of their dining plan. Basically they don't want to be passing out lobster and filet mignon at dining plan prices.

This means everyone is getting less and less options, and the menus are homogenizing more and more across the board. I would love to see those premium items return to the menus, and the variety continue to be developed, rather than the opposite.

Do you think it would make any sense for Disney to re-implement some of those higher ticket items, but not have them directly translate to the dining plan? Either stipulate something like the dining plan table service items cannot exceed a certain dollar amount (and put the "premium items" they have eliminated back on the menu, but above that price). Or better yet, my preference would be to make a section on the menus that are called "premium items", which can be had for an out-of-pocket amount above and beyond the 1 credit on the meal--that way nobody feels excluded from being able to enjoy these items, but it is communicated that the value translated from the dining plan does not cover these extra-special items. So dining plan or not, everyone can enjoy anything on the menu without restriction.

I don't want people on the dining plan to feel like they are not entitled to enjoy the finer items. But look at it like this: it is a *discounted meal plan*, and an additional benefit also lies in the convenience of having your meals largely pre-paid and not having to carry a lot of cards or cash on you; so there are secondary benefits above and beyond just the discounted meal costs. And if the spreading in popularity of this optional discounted points system is causing the restaurants to lower their quality, portion sizes, and variety...wouldn't it interest all of us, dining plan proponents or not, to find a way to bring the whole dining experience up, even if it means a few changes in the automatic point-for-point availability of higher ticket items on the discounted points plan?

I am interested in hearing all viewpoints on this. And I hope this will not polarize everyone into a "dining plan vs. not dining plan" opinion. I would like everyone to consider both sides of the equation in your opinion, and realize that my question is posed with the ultimate goal of increasing the quality and variety of dining property-wide for *everyone*.

 

[TDC Nala]

Here's what I think - they CAN'T keep the popular regular dining plan at its current affordable price and return high-end items to the menus of the one-credit restaurants. They will not offer a separate or upcharge menu because they know guests don't like that. They don't want the dining plan guests to feel cheap or like outsiders. At some times of year, it's beginning to appear that the majority of WDW restaurant guests are using the dining plan - and most of those are using the regular plan, not the deluxe. It's better that they not keep in stock items that they know the majority won't order.

Disney's discovered that most of its guests are quite happy with decent food in decent quantities. Most are not looking for a gourmet experience. The current WDW management is not particularly interested in catering to anyone outside the majority of guests.

If you want high end menu items, there are still the signature restaurants, which have a higher price point and can maintain more of the expensive ingredients. There are also a number of restaurants on WDW property that do not accept the dining plan.

 

[Colleen27]

I seriously doubt that we'll see the return of any high end items to menus. Disney has to walk a pretty fine line with the dining plan, because people won't buy it if it loses too much of its all-inclusive/pre-paid aspects (and it already took a big hit in that department with the 2008 changes), and for most visitors, the current menus are fine.

It is important to keep in mind that the typical Disney visitor isn't an obsessed DISer, and to the once-in-a-lifetime or once every few years guest, menu changes aren't a issue. As long as the food is good (not great), the bottom line is that Disney far outdoes most family destinations and that, not what they offered 1 or 2 or 5 years ago, is the standard most visitors will judge them by.

 

[WDisnut]

The dining plan is only discounted based on what you get. It is a prepaid amount that helps disney in food cost preparation and guaranteed sale of food. The high end food choices are leaving most places because disney doesn't make enough money on them compared to other foods. This would of happened with or without the DDP. For disney to make the same kind of profits on the high end items they would have to charge over $50 for a fillet in relation to $26 for chicken which they now do (I'm talking about the chicken). So they leave a couple of high end items on some select menus but most people can't get ressies at those places so you are forced to go to place "y" with no high end items... just my opinion

 

[Clotho]

So they leave a couple of high end items on some select menus but most people can't get ressies at those places so you are forced to go to place "y" with no high end items... just my opinion

They are pushing the DDP forcing people to get ressies, which means it's hard to get ressies, so they are taking high end items off the menu because people have a hard time getting ressies? That makes no sense to me.

Either way, the higher end items are slipping away. And I am not just talking foie gras and lobster. Apparently cuts of meat are being reduced and are of lower quality these days, as well. It's too bad!

 

[Goofy_Girl]

Since this was my first trip to WDW I have no other comparison from the past, but in my opinion I found the food quality and choices to be very good. I am a very adventurous diner and I have had just about every type of food (including some bizzare foods) that you can think of. I've eaten very expensive gourmet to average and I found the quality and choices in WDW to be quite impressive considering it's a theme park. We had ressies at Akurshus and even though this was a princess dining ( my DD wanted to dine with princesses) DBF and I thought the food would just be okay but it was absolutely delicious, not average at all, and this was a single TS so I am sure the signature 2 TS are even better( never bothered to try one.) I found DDP to have a good range of offerings but I do agree with the others who are saying that perhaps WDW just doesn't make enough money off of more expensive choices. I can't see the average family ordering gourmet cuts regularly.

 

[WDisnut]

They are pushing the DDP forcing people to get ressies, which means it's hard to get ressies, so they are taking high end items off the menu because people have a hard time getting ressies? That makes no sense to me.

Its "like" a bait and switch, Disney doesn't want to say all high end items are gone, they would rather appear like they have them. So they leave a few on in select places. Then a lot of people try to get in to those places after purchasing there plan (DDP), but they can't get in, no ADRS left. So those people now have to choose from places that don't have the high end items. This makes disney a bigger profit and they look better ( just keep calling you might get a ADR, good luck!).

 

[bleeps]

We just returned (10/25) from 9 days/8 nights (our 5th trip in 6 years) and were on DxDDP. We are gourmet/high end/adventurous eaters and are willing to spend $$$ on great meals at special places generally.

We went into this trip curious and a little worried about what the dining experience would be like based on everything we've read here recently (our last trip was 2006). We ate at (among others) California Grill, Artists Point, Jiko, Le Cellier, Teppan Edo, Coral Reef, Yak and Yeti -- signature 2 credit places and "nicer" 1 credit TS places.

Have the menus changed a bit and have some of the options narrowed? Yeah, a little. But we ate our fill of filet mignon, pork tenderloin, and other excellent (expensive, high end) cuts of meat. We ate beautiful, fresh fish and seafood (salmon, mahi mahi, scallops, shrimp, lobster). We never once sat down to a meal (1) that wasn't fresh, delicious, beautifully prepared and worth the money or that (2) offered a menu that we thought was too limited or "cheap" on luxury options. And consistently (perhaps thanks to the deluxe plan with appetizers and deserts) it was more food than we could eat.

Is Disney a business that needs to constantly watch the bottom line while giving people their money's worth? Yes. Did we get our money's worth? Yes. Did we make our dining choices based on what we wanted to eat (and not on what the most expensive item on the menu was)? Yes. Would I go to WDW again and buy a dining plan? Yes.

I think things at WDW are better than what we happy, devoted navel-gazers here on the DIS sometimes make them out to be....

 

[bangzoom6877]

I could see Disney returning certain items to the menus, and having a surcharge to order these items if you are using the dining plan. However, whether or not this would actually happen is unpredictable.

What I mentioned above is similar to what cruise ships have done in the past 10 years or so. Cruises used to be completely different when it came to dining. I remember when I was 13 and went on my first cruise with my parents, there was literally only one option for dinner: the dining room. No buffets for dinner, no specialty restaurants, etc. Then a few years later they began keeping the buffet open on deck for dinner for those who did not want to change clothes for the dining room and to enjoy a more casual dining experience.

Now, on cruises, the food in the dining room used to be much higher quality than you would find on ships today. However, my family and I still enjoy it very much. In recent years cruise ships have made the addition of specialty restaurants, which carry a surcharge to dine there, but the experience is more intimate and more unique (usually) than the dining room. These are the places where you will find things like foix gras, chocolate fondue, and other fancier more high-end items. The surcharge is not a huge amount of money...usually between $15 and $25 per person. However, many people feel that there is so much food to be enjoyed on a cruise ship that is included in the price, that they do not eat at these places. Others feel that it is important to have a one, two, a few or several fancier meals on vacation so they have this option and they use it. Those places are always packed during peak seasons.

So, my opinion is that Disney should do something similar to what cruise ships have recently done. I think that they should add back the higher end items, give them the regular price they would for people not utilizing the dining plan, and have a surcharge for those who are on the dining plan but still want to enjoy the item. That way, more people would be happy. Those who do not like the dining plan because of lack of quality will be happy to have those items back. Those who like the dining plan will still have the same choices they have today for one credit, and additional choices with a surcharge should they want something fancier that meal.

 

[jdb1232]

We are a family of four, we travel to the WL and now the VWL every year. We have always enjoyed the DDP for several reasons. We are not a family that enjoys long, high end dining. We want a good meal, great dessert, and we want it fairly quickly becasue we want to get back to the parks.

We just returned from the WL this week, on the 27th. All of our meals were fantastic (Mama Melrose, Kona, G.F. Cafe and Whispering Canyon.) Our first two meals took almost 2 hours. That's insane considering we have little ones that get anxious and parents that want to get to the parks. We corrected the problem by telling our waiter on the next two meals that we wanted to get in and out. Everything was fine then.

So to answer your question. Obviously we like last years DDP because of the pricing, however we feel that the DDP offers great options at a reasonalbe price. I'm sure there are those that like the high end dining that lasts almost the whole night, but its not for us. if these people have small children, they must be sedating them or something.

On another note, when we have been traveling in the fall for years. Sept. and Oct. were great because parks were empty, not any more! Sure its not like the summer, but there were never 1 hour + waits for rides in the fall a couple of years ago. Anymore the resorts seemed to be packed in the fall. Disney is doing alright in that respect.

 

[bangzoom6877]

We are a family of four, we travel to the WL and now the VWL every year. We have always enjoyed the DDP for several reasons. We are not a family that enjoys long, high end dining. We want a good meal, great dessert, and we want it fairly quickly becasue we want to get back to the parks.

We just returned from the WL this week, on the 27th. All of our meals were fantastic (Mama Melrose, Kona, G.F. Cafe and Whispering Canyon.) Our first two meals took almost 2 hours. That's insane considering we have little ones that get anxious and parents that want to get to the parks. We corrected the problem by telling our waiter on the next two meals that we wanted to get in and out. Everything was fine then.

So to answer your question. Obviously we like last years DDP because of the pricing, however we feel that the DDP offers great options at a reasonalbe price. I'm sure there are those that like the high end dining that lasts almost the whole night, but its not for us. if these people have small children, they must be sedating them or something.

On another note, when we have been traveling in the fall for years. Sept. and Oct. were great because parks were empty, not any more! Sure its not like the summer, but there were never 1 hour + waits for rides in the fall a couple of years ago. Anymore the resorts seemed to be packed in the fall. Disney is doing alright in that respect.

I agree, with little ones we like to be in and out too! That's why the dining plan turned out to be a great deal for us. What I did was checked out the menus and looked at the places we definitely wanted to eat in (I checked TS places only). They were all-you-can-eat meals, so the elimination of the app on the regular dining plan did not affect us. I also knew exactly what the price would have been OOP since it was a per person charge and not a la carte menus. So when I calculated everything, then considered the addition of a CS lunch each day while at the parks, it saved us money, even before the snack credits. So for us the DDP fit right into our plans and saved us money at the same time. And since it was buffets, we were in and out of each restaurant in about an hour, even less for breakfasts.

If we had been eating at all a la carte restaurants, I am not sure how much we would have saved, if anything. Then we would consider not doing the plan and maybe sometimes ordering one app and one dessert and sharing them, paying OOP for all meals. However this would require coming up with a specific budget on our own for food. With the DDP we pre-pay and know what we are paying for our food which helps in budgeting our trip. I see both sides of the DDP debate. It's not for everyone, but it works for some people.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Do you think it would make any sense for Disney to re-implement some of those higher ticket items, but not have them directly translate to the dining plan? Either stipulate something like the dining plan table service items cannot exceed a certain dollar amount (and put the "premium items" they have eliminated back on the menu, but above that price). Or better yet, my preference would be to make a section on the menus that are called "premium items",

No - since you asked

Very simply: marketing, and perceived value. If you sell something - prepaid dining, in this case - at a given price, but then spring on the customer that they can only order C, D, or E, while Guests paying cash also get choose from A or B (or if you give that prepaid person menu 2, but the cash person menu 1), especially knowing how easily information is shared online, you're not going to be selling very many of your prepaid dining plan. You're not going to have that money to work with or invest prior to its actual use, i.e. the diner ordering food.

So, my opinion is that Disney should do something similar to what cruise ships have recently done. I think that they should add back the higher end items, give them the regular price they would for people not utilizing the dining plan, and have a surcharge for those who are on the dining plan but still want to enjoy the item.

Unless something has changed recently, those surcharges are incurred at/in separately-located restaurants, NOT in the public dining rooms.

Disney could effect the same results by having some separately-located restaurants not accept dining plan credits in payment. That's the only comparable condition, and they already HAVE that set-up.

 

[Colleen27]

So, my opinion is that Disney should do something similar to what cruise ships have recently done. I think that they should add back the higher end items, give them the regular price they would for people not utilizing the dining plan, and have a surcharge for those who are on the dining plan but still want to enjoy the item. That way, more people would be happy. Those who do not like the dining plan because of lack of quality will be happy to have those items back. Those who like the dining plan will still have the same choices they have today for one credit, and additional choices with a surcharge should they want something fancier that meal.

They have done that, in a way, with the signature dining. No, there isn't a cash surcharge, but you have to use two meal credits to dine there which has the same effect - paying more for the better food & atmosphere.

 

[korzmom]

i just wrote about this on my menus thread..I would gladly pay full price for a better quality meal, as a matter of fact,we are heading down in march and were going to get the meal plan but maybe now we'll change our meal plans and dine off property a few nights just so we can get a decent meal. the way the menus look as of now you have a choice of chicken,steak, or salmon.i think that if they're losing too much money on the dining plan then get rid of it-or just do away with the free dining plan to compinsate the losses.

 

[bangzoom6877]

i just wrote about this on my menus thread..I would gladly pay full price for a better quality meal, as a matter of fact,we are heading down in march and were going to get the meal plan but maybe now we'll change our meal plans and dine off property a few nights just so we can get a decent meal. the way the menus look as of now you have a choice of chicken,steak, or salmon.i think that if they're losing too much money on the dining plan then get rid of it-or just do away with the free dining plan to compinsate the losses.

Personally I believe this is an exaggeration. I don't think it is impossible to get a decent meal on Disney property. This makes it sound as if the food at Disney is just awful! It may not be gourmet but they are also not claiming to be gourmet, keep that in mind.

 

[TDC Nala]

Personally I believe this is an exaggeration. I don't think it is impossible to get a decent meal on Disney property. This makes it sound as if the food at Disney is just awful! It may not be gourmet but they are also not claiming to be gourmet, keep that in mind.

The current Disney food is going to be fine for most. But if they aren't serving the sort of food one likes, one option is to forego the dining plan, rent a car and eat meals offsite.

Disney is not losing money on the dining plan. In addition to getting guests into the restaurants, it's also keeping people onsite for their full vacation time.

 

[Colleen27]

Disney is not losing money on the dining plan. In addition to getting guests into the restaurants, it's also keeping people onsite for their full vacation time.

Exactly. And that's something I think people overlook - they compare the meal plan cost to the menu cost and see it as Disney losing money. However, a lot of people, myself included, never stayed on-site until the DDP lured them in to try it. And I'll bet I'm not the only one who can't imagine going back to staying offsite now, regardless of whether we're on the dining plan. I'm sure there are also many people who stayed on-site but ate mostly counter service before the dining plan, and I think its a safe bet that Disney is making more off of discounted table service meals than they do on full priced counter service meals.

 

[korzmom]

I didnt say i would stay off site ,i said i might eat off site...maybe a few dinners to satisfy my need for lobster on vacation!! and maybe i should restate my quote about decent food, disney does have decent food,i enjoy all of it,i just meant last years menus were better..i enjoyed the crablegs at coral reef,lobsters at capt jacks,this year they're no longer on the menu. if they were losing money they wouldnt offer the free dining.