Here Now, Should Have Been Just Back

Status
Not open for further replies.

mikedoyleblogger

DIS Veteran
Joined
Feb 11, 2013
Messages
2,458
We are just finishing our five-day, sixth anniversary holiday trip to Walt Disney World staying at Coronado Springs. However, we're on night six because of the snowstorm in the Midwest-our original flight tonight was diverted from our Chicago home to St. Louis so we're pretty glad we booked an extra night just in case! We were here for most of Pop Warner, and I have to say although I dreaded the experience, it was terrific. Coronado was not really overtaken, there weren't any noise issues or rowdiness issues at all during our stay. We also didn't experience any cheerleader antics in the parks, other than a single, loud cheer group at the end of an evening at Epcot. Our only issue was cheerleaders cutting in line at Pepper Market, and the food court CM is put a stop to that pretty quickly.

Free dining just began however, so the parks seem to have gotten fuller in the past couple of days, ADRs are (of course) now hard to come by, and FastPass+ is running out early in the day.

Before this, I had only ever experienced the Christmas festivities at Disneyland. My partner, Ryan, and I both think that the holidays here at Walt Disney World are about as well done as they could possibly be anywhere. But we also I think a little bit of them goes a very long way. I expected the vibe to be Disney does Christmas. But what it really is is Disney becomes Christmas, and a lot of the baseline vibe of Walt Disney World gets put on the back burner.We didn't quite expect that, and while the parks are outstandingly beautifully decorated, we don't need to hear another Christmas carol at all, whatsoever, for the next 12 months, if you know what I mean.

We're both also Jewish, and didn't really think that that would matter. But for anyone who isn't Christian considering experiencing Disney during the Christmas holiday, while it is not a religious celebration here, it is beyond 100% Christmas and at times that had us feeling a little bit left out. Not in terms of wanting it to be a celebration other than Christmas. But when the band at the Biergarten in Epcot told the whole audience to start singing with them the English lyrics of Silent Night, I cringed. Because The whole world comes to Walt Disney World, and you can't expect every patron in a restaurant to know or care to sing the lyrics of a religious Christmas carol. It was a moment that felt very un-Disney and I thought about writing a comment to Guest Services about it.

We both enjoyed MVMCP, and although some have suggested otherwise, we both thought our sold out party was very much not overcrowded. We were able to easily view the fireworks and get a curb side seat for the (2nd) parade on Main Street. The cookie lines were very manageable, and ride times were pretty short as well. Our previous Disney party experiences to which we compared MVMCP are the two Disneyland Halloween parties we've attended, both of which were total clusters. MVMCP was so much better, although alittle ridiculously expensive. We definitely wished we had a blanket though, because the fake snow runs for half an hour after the fireworks, and then of course through the parade. And if you're sitting on main street waiting for the second parade, you basically just freeze under the soap flakes If it's a chilly night, as our party night was.

The highlight of the trip was the refurbishment if it's a small world. The last time we rode, in 2013, it was filthy and half of the kinetic effects were not working. The state that the ride is in now is breathtaking. Everything is clean. Everything is fixed. Everything is moving. Every monkey on a vine. Every bird with a spinning head. Every flying carpet. Every bouncing kite. Everything. We could not believe it and it was just absolutely lovely and magical.

The lowlight has been the end-of-night Coronado bus service at MK and Epcot. It's annoying to watch bus after bus pull out for Riverside, and still be waiting for the bus for your larger moderate resort.

And the unexpected moment was dragging my partner on a crawl of the MK resorts, which he had never seen, and in the middle of the Contemporary, having him tell me that it felt like it had the vibe of our beloved Disneyland Hotel. Which made my jaw drop because CR reads that way to me, too.

In August we changed our opinion of WDW from meh to love on our second trip in three years. This time, we had the conversation tonight about whether we'll ever be DLR passholders again and realized that we're happier to be new WDW vets. Much as we love it, we can't imagine going back to the "land" before MDE, MagicBands, and Fastpass+.
 
Thank you for sharing your trip. We are also DLH regulars. Your coments have us very excited. We have not been to WDW in quite a few years
I hope we find staying at the Contemporary resort gives us the same vibe.
 
I have to say that I agree with you on the whole vibe for non-Christians. While we loved MVMCP and the decorations, there were moments that we felt a little out of place. As a fellow MOT, the additional fireworks after the end of Illuminations while spectacular were a little too religious for me. Nothing worth complaining about- but just enough to make me a tad uncomfortable. Glad you had a wonderful time!
 
I expected the vibe to be Disney does Christmas. But what it really is is Disney becomes Christmas, and a lot of the baseline vibe of Walt Disney World gets put on the back burner.We didn't quite expect that, and while the parks are outstandingly beautifully decorated, we don't need to hear another Christmas carol at all, whatsoever, for the next 12 months, if you know what I mean.

This my feeling 120%. We were at WDW 3 years ago starting at exactly this time and we probably will not do another Xmas season at WDW. I don't regret doing it but "been there done that bought everything and the t shirt". But I get the music issue. The background music is what puts me in the Disney spirit, not listening to the same exact music I hear in the stores.
 

Well, at least you now know what to expect, and can choose another time of year to visit, if that would make you feel more comfortable. And best wishes to get back home after the storm. Looked absolutely frightening when I saw the Midwest on the news - icy snow is no fun. No fun at all!!
 
I have to say that I agree with you on the whole vibe for non-Christians. While we loved MVMCP and the decorations, there were moments that we felt a little out of place. As a fellow MOT, the additional fireworks after the end of Illuminations while spectacular were a little too religious for me. Nothing worth complaining about- but just enough to make me a tad uncomfortable. Glad you had a wonderful time!

Have they changed it from "Let There Be Peace On Earth"? That doesn't read as "religious" to me - isn't peace something everyone wants?
 
We're both also Jewish, and didn't really think that that would matter. But for anyone who isn't Christian considering experiencing Disney during the Christmas holiday, while it is not a religious celebration here, it is beyond 100% Christmas and at times that had us feeling a little bit left out. Not in terms of wanting it to be a celebration other than Christmas. But when the band at the Biergarten in Epcot told the whole audience to start singing with them the English lyrics of Silent Night, I cringed. Because The whole world comes to Walt Disney World, and you can't expect every patron in a restaurant to know or care to sing the lyrics of a religious Christmas carol. It was a moment that felt very un-Disney and I thought about writing a comment to Guest Services about it.
You use the phrase TOLD but did they really require all to sing? I do get why you wouldn't. Heck, I'm Christian and I wouldn't because I don't sing. I do wonder though just why it felt Un-Disney? I think Epcot does a pretty dang good job to include everyone and every belief in the various displays throughout WS. Did you not feel that?
 
I'm in the Chicago area too, hopefully you're able to make it back here safely. Just in time for more snow tonight and some polar vortex!
 
You use the phrase TOLD but did they really require all to sing? I do get why you wouldn't. Heck, I'm Christian and I wouldn't because I don't sing. I do wonder though just why it felt Un-Disney? I think Epcot does a pretty dang good job to include everyone and every belief in the various displays throughout WS. Did you not feel that?

I would feel uncomfortable as well, I think. Its about the pressure from a group that can make you feel like an outcast when you don't do what the entire group does with enthusiasm.

I once visited a Broadway musical, On The Town, which started with the US national anthem, almost the entire audience stood up and sang along. Im not from the US so I do not know the national anthem, but half way through I stood up as well and other tourists with me. People were looking at me and you could see judgement. I don't remember much about the show, but I do remember how I felt the first few minutes of the show.

I do not do Disney during Christmas as they are celebrating something I do not celebrate. I feel out of place as I was raised without any religion. It just doesnt feel like Disney to me during Christmas.
 
I would feel uncomfortable as well, I think. Its about the pressure from a group that can make you feel like an outcast when you don't do what the entire group does with enthusiasm.

I once visited a Broadway musical, On The Town, which started with the US national anthem, almost the entire audience stood up and sang along. Im not from the US so I do not know the national anthem, but half way through I stood up as well and other tourists with me. People were looking at me and you could see judgement. I don't remember much about the show, but I do remember how I felt the first few minutes of the show.

I do not do Disney during Christmas as they are celebrating something I do not celebrate. I feel out of place as I was raised without any religion. It just doesnt feel like Disney to me during Christmas.

I would stand for any national anthem in any country. I may not know the words but I would at least stand as a sign of respect.

I really want to go to WDW at Christmas time. I LOVE Christmas and am not religious. It's on my bucket list. :)

Glad you had a great time OP and even though the extra night is due to bad weather, hey it's an extra day at Disney!
 
You use the phrase TOLD but did they really require all to sing? I do get why you wouldn't. Heck, I'm Christian and I wouldn't because I don't sing. I do wonder though just why it felt Un-Disney? I think Epcot does a pretty dang good job to include everyone and every belief in the various displays throughout WS. Did you not feel that?

This. I'm sure people weren't forced to sing. Also, considering that Silent Night was originally a Germanic Christmas song (composed by an Austrian, in German lyrics) it makes perfect sense that you would hear it in Germany. Also, Silent Night is pretty much known world wide as the "Song of Peace". Like someone else said - something most people want.
 
But when the band at the Biergarten in Epcot told the whole audience to start singing with them the English lyrics of Silent Night, I cringed. Because The whole world comes to Walt Disney World, and you can't expect every patron in a restaurant to know or care to sing the lyrics of a religious Christmas carol. It was a moment that felt very un-Disney and I thought about writing a comment to Guest Services about it.

You are aware of the connection between German culture and Christmas?

Stills Nacht (Silent Night) is the world's most famous German Christmas Carol, thus the reason it's sung at Biergarten. And I'm pretty sure the performers also sang it in the original German first.

So writing letters of complaint regarding cultural tradition seems a tad petty and insulting. Just don't sing or visit Biergarten at Christmas? But please don't take it personal like you felt left out.

Btw, this is not coming from a religious view, but rather a cultural one. As one who currently lives in the Bible Belt, I've met quite a few who believe Christmas is downright devil pagan...they won't even sing Silent Night.
 
When in Rome . . . I am one half of an interfaith couple that celebrates Jewish and Christian holidays and I would have had no problem with Silent Night in Germany for exactly the reason mshanson3121 stated. It's a German Christmas song. Part of the EP celebrations over the holidays is to expose people to the traditions of each country represented in EP - singing Silent Night in the Germany pavilion fits into that theme. I believe Hanukkah is represented in the America pavilion and if they sang a Hanukkah song, I would be happy to join in and sing along. I would participate in the programs in Japan, China and Morocco as well. IMHO, the more we know and understand each other, the better off we are.

This brings me back to the time we visited the Kristiansand zoo and theme park in Norway. We went as part of a cruise excursion and, on the way there, we were told that this was a Norwegian park and not to expect anything written in English or geared toward Americans or other foreign travelers. Boy, were they right! We couldn't read a thing and we went on this train ride that had a theatrical show, based on a popular Norwegian childrens TV show, completely in Norwegian. All the Norwegians sang the songs and responded back when the characters asked questions and we just sat there and soaked it all in not knowing anything that was going on. It was actually really neat to be a part of a uniquely Norwegian cultural program.

Yes, perhaps if you don't celebrate Christmas, the holiday season is not the best time to go to WDW. About 90% of Americans celebrate Christmas, so I don't think WDW is off the rails in celebrating it.
 
You use the phrase TOLD but did they really require all to sing? I do get why you wouldn't. Heck, I'm Christian and I wouldn't because I don't sing. I do wonder though just why it felt Un-Disney? I think Epcot does a pretty dang good job to include everyone and every belief in the various displays throughout WS. Did you not feel that?

In that one instance, I didn't. Everything else was embracing enough to feel welcoming or not presumptive all around the World. And of course you don't attend the Candlelight Processional (which sounded awesome passing by) unless you intend to. But the band leader at Biergarten literally says something like, "Now everyone sing the lyrics in English!..." We did Biergarten twice this trip and sat through this part of the show twice as well. It wasn't "if you know the lyrics" or "if The spirit moves you" or anything like that. It came across pretty clearly as an assumption that no one could possibly not know the lyrics or not want to sing along and it really threw us out of the show both times.

It could be a cultural thing on the part of the band, or they may just say it every year, I don't know. But the moment felt very exclusionary--there's no way a sentence like that could possibly have included us--and that's why it felt un-Disney. For one awful moment, we were suddenly not part of "everyone" at Disney.
 
I've never been to DLR but grew up and have spent my adulthood going to WDW on a regular basis. Honestly, I like going at Christmas time because the offerings are different. I like the change to shows like the Dapper Dans, Voices of Liberty, etc., so that they aren't the same as they are the rest of the year. Maybe something to consider if you become WDW passholders and have seen everything 1,000 times. I do celebrate Christmas, so that definitely makes a difference. WDW does Christmas the way I would if time, space, and money were no issue. Halloween is a nice time to visit, too.
 
You are aware of the connection between German culture and Christmas?

Stills Nacht (Silent Night) is the world's most famous German Christmas Carol, thus the reason it's sung at Biergarten. And I'm pretty sure the performers also sang it in the original German first.

So writing letters of complaint regarding cultural tradition seems a tad petty and insulting. Just don't sing or visit Biergarten at Christmas? But please don't take it personal like you felt left out.

Btw, this is not coming from a religious view, but rather a cultural one. As one who currently lives in the Bible Belt, I've met quite a few who believe Christmas is downright devil pagan...they won't even sing Silent Night.

Neither you nor anyone else in this thread has any right to tell someone else how to determine whether they feel or have a right to feel excluded. Your assumption and the assumption of others in this thread--who have turned this thread overtly religious and thinly nasty--that everyone feels or should feel like you do was the problem at Biergarten entirely.
 
I think it is pretty small to let another religion have a negative impact on you. And that is not even taking into account being offended by a German song sung in a German restaurant.....

That is the most disgusting, demeaning thing anyone has ever said to me on the Dis. I would ask the mods just to kill the thread. This no longer feels like a safe space.
 
In that one instance, I didn't. Everything else was embracing enough to feel welcoming or not presumptive all around the World. And of course you don't attend the Candlelight Processional (which sounded awesome passing by) unless you intend to. But the band leader at Biergarten literally says something like, "Now everyone sing the lyrics in English!..." We did Biergarten twice this trip and sat through this part of the show twice as well. It wasn't "if you know the lyrics" or "if The spirit moves you" or anything like that. It came across pretty clearly as an assumption that no one could possibly not know the lyrics or not want to sing along and it really threw us out of the show both times.

It could be a cultural thing on the part of the band, or they may just say it every year, I don't know. But the moment felt very exclusionary--there's no way a sentence like that could possibly have included us--and that's why it felt un-Disney. For one awful moment, we were suddenly not part of "everyone" at Disney.

In all honesty, I think you're making too much of it, being too sensitive about it. "Now everyone sing along!" is pretty common jarb for performers when it comes to popular songs. It doesn't translate into: "You have to do this!" And seeing as how Silent Night is probably the most well known Christmas carol around the world (seeing as how to date it's been translated into over 300 languages and dialects), it really isn't too much of an assumption on their part to think that most people have heard it/would know at least some of the lyrics.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


Disney Vacation Planning. Free. Done for You.
Our Authorized Disney Vacation Planners are here to provide personalized, expert advice, answer every question, and uncover the best discounts. Let Dreams Unlimited Travel take care of all the details, so you can sit back, relax, and enjoy a stress-free vacation.
Start Your Disney Vacation
Disney EarMarked Producer






DIS Facebook DIS youtube DIS Instagram DIS Pinterest DIS Tiktok DIS Twitter
Add as a preferred source on Google

Back
Top Bottom