Here is a thought on how Disney can fill more tables...

[wilkeliza]

I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you there. Chefs in NYC and other large cities often shop for ingredients every morning at local markets. They aren't buying mass quantities from Sysco (or whatever supplier WDW uses). They don't keep large amounts of meat and fish in freezers. I guarantee you the chef at Flying Fish isn't having the Chilean Sea Bass flown in every morning directly from Chile. He is getting it from the same supplier that other local restaurants use.

Yeah that doesn't happen that often in NYC. Sure they may get local deliveries but no restaurant chef is going down to the fish market daily. They all use different purveyors. Sure it isn't Sysco but Peter Luger, Pat LaFrieda, etc. Our markets can not support the entire food industry here in the big city. The proof is also in the pudding when you see a Sysco truck pull up in the middle of the night.

 

[DLgal]

Yeah that doesn't happen that often in NYC. Sure they may get local deliveries but no restaurant chef is going down to the fish market daily. They all use different purveyors. Sure it isn't Sysco but Peter Luger, Pat LaFrieda, etc. Our markets can not support the entire food industry here in the big city. The proof is also in the pudding when you see a Sysco truck pull up in the middle of the night.

I imagine the Sysco trucks are delivering pantry staples, like canned goods, flour, sugar, coffee, etc.

I should have clarified...I was talking about high end restaurants, mostly. I also do know that several gastropub and smaller type places do locally source ingredients, often from NJ, if not daily at least a few times a week.

This is just a response to the claim that Flying Fish is somehow getting "far better quality" Chilean Sea Bass than a gastropub in NYC. There is literally no way to know that for sure.

 

[JerseyJanice]

Something that I didn't mention in my OP is the effect of recent increases in the price of park admission.

Ticket prices are up across the board. It's $75 just to park hop with multi-day tickets. Extra days that used to cost $5 are now up to $20 plus tax.

The effect of these increases can be felt two ways by average guests. One being that when they're paying so much for admission, they aren't going to waste valuable park time on fine dining. And two, they have only so much money for vacation. If more of their budget is going toward tickets, they have less to spend on dining.

 

[wilkeliza]

I imagine the Sysco trucks are delivering pantry staples, like canned goods, flour, sugar, coffee, etc.

I should have clarified...I was talking about high end restaurants, mostly. I also do know that several gastropub and smaller type places do locally source ingredients, often from NJ, if not daily at least a few times a week.

This is just a response to the claim that Flying Fish is somehow getting "far better quality" Chilean Sea Bass than a gastropub in NYC. There is literally no way to know that for sure.

Of course there is no way to know for sure but knowing what it costs here in NYC to get ingredients I can make an educated guess that the gastropup is not getting quality stuff. It doesn't have to be local or flown in daily to be quality but at that price point there is no way they are getting top line quality and making profit just no way. I'm not even guessing at it as I've seen the pricing sheets for many suppliers that serve the city.

Back on topic. Again I really don't think the signatures are dealing with just a pricing issue they are dealing with a branding issue. People hear "signature" and read a suggested dress code and suddenly it is a lot more than just dinner after the theme park. I don't think the average family traveling to WDW is going to feel like they are welcome to come just out of the parks as they are with their kids to places like this and that is what is ultimately hurting them.

 

[JerseyJanice]

@wilkeliza You make a good point about "signature" restaurants, but there are signature places at Disney that have not been included in any of these discount offers. And obviously, it's because they don't need to in order to fill their tables.

You could attribute the success of California Grill, CRT and Narcosees to their unique views and locations, but one could say the same about Artist Point. Yachtsman built its well-deserved reputation over many years. I think Flying Fish destroyed its reputation with its ridiculous prices and weird sounding menu. (What the heck are these things: shank croquette, Antebellum white grits, shishito, dehydrated milk foam?)

It's a matter of time before LeCellier's non-conversion to being a true signature restaurant catches up to it.

 

[kiford]

It's a brutal business, especially in a city like New York or Chicago or San Francisco where the competition is fierce.

The bold is my addition. This is the issue - if you are staying on-site, there is little competition unless you have a rental car and want to drive farther. Or, at least, there is little of the same level of competition you would find in a normal or large city. Not only that, but if I don't want to pay Disney prices and I'm staying on-site, I'd have to have a rental car (cost for that) and I'd have to drive farther away and fight traffic in a city/area I don't know, the driver can't have anything to drink, and I'd have to make sure that it's a restaurant that I was either able to book in advance or that isn't going to be busy because I'm not driving all that way to find I have to wait or there's no room. Hence, the regular high prices. During times when the hotels aren't as busy, they have to bring in locals who do have access to competition, who have a car, who expect to drive somewhere, who know the area so they have to discount to bring those people in.

Disney restaurants are a bit more expensive that what's at home but when I add in the hassle and extra car cost, it's no more than I expect in any city I don't know where I don't have a car, don't know where to go and end up eating in the hotel restaurant or close by if I don't want to eat in a mid-range chain.

 

[Anthony1971]

while I think Disney has gotten expensive for where they are, the quality they serve and the volume they do... and the volume has a lot to do with it...
I have worked in NYC my entire life and lived in it most of it -- had to move to some place more peaceful-- and there is NO way NYC is cheaper than Disney. I know of a number of local sourced places that are using the new trend of carry out only hole in the wall space and you will easily drop 20.00 on lunch --if you are willing to wait on the long line and are lucky enough to get what you want as once its gone its gone for the day. Mostly in NY I have had frozen and boxed food with special syrup poured on top and easily spent what I do at Disney for a much higher quality meal... places that are reasonable and serve decent food in NY are few and far between.... I 10000% disagree that you can compare NYC pricing to Disney unless you just have not been eating here in years... I would love a list of places that I can get a decent sit down meal here for what Disney charges for the normal TS places.... Lets use the Wave as a standard as they are also offering the 30% discount (to DVC as well BTW) and they use local sourced food which is why the menu changes.. I worked in Midtown for 17 years and for he last 4 in the SOHO/Tribeca area but soon will be back in Midtown... again I do not agree with Disney pricing as it is out of control but 95% of the run of the mill sit down places in NYC serve utter crap at what is easily compared to what Disney charges.

 

[DisneyWishes14]

@DisneyWishes14 i could believe capacity at some of the restaurants ... but with F&W starting later this month, I have a hard time believing the Epcot resorts have low bookings (for Flying Fish).
For FL residents, a free appetizer and free Valet parking at BW during F&W seems to be a crazy good promo

Agree, but don't you think most of those people are eating at F&W? If the point of the trip is to sample F&W, I don't know if many of them will want to sit down for a 3-hour, overpriced, mediocre meal with slow service (that's my personal assessment of our FF experience, LOL!) Who knows!?

 

[JerseyJanice]

@Anthony1971 When you get back up to midtown, you need to go to Hell's Kitchen for Happy Hour which is until 8:00 PM everywhere.

I personally don't think it's a fair comparison between Disney restaurants and eateries in cities like New York and San Francisco. Real estate whether it's purchased or rented is through the roof expensive in cities, but Disney isn't renting nor has it purchased land since the 1960s or 70s.

 

[wilkeliza]

@wilkeliza You make a good point about "signature" restaurants, but there are signature places at Disney that have not been included in any of these discount offers. And obviously, it's because they don't need to in order to fill their tables.

You could attribute the success of California Grill, CRT and Narcosees to their unique views and locations, but one could say the same about Artist Point. Yachtsman built its well-deserved reputation over many years. I think Flying Fish destroyed its reputation with its ridiculous prices and weird sounding menu. (What the heck are these things: shank croquette, Antebellum white grits, shishito, dehydrated milk foam?)

It's a matter of time before LeCellier's non-conversion to being a true signature restaurant catches up to it.

White grits are grits
shishito is peppers (i put mushrooms earlier but edited to correct thing)
dehydrated milk foam is just dry milk foam
a croquette is a bread thing if it is shank I'm guessing maybe lamb not 100% sure

They are suppose to be "signature" and finer dinning so they are trying to offer that. If you are unsure what it is you can always ask the server.

 

[DisneyWishes14]

I guess I've had the luxury of eating in all of the signatures at least twice (I think I'm a "two strikes and you're out" person!) and, at this point, I've whittled it down to the ones I know we like and those we don't and only go to those and usually only, perhaps, two per trip. With few exceptions, (the Wave, Capt. Grille, Spice Road), I find the 1 TS to be really lacking and I like to have at least a few decent meals on our trip. I really don't mind spending the money if I'm relatively assured the food and service will be good. Only twice (Narcoosee's and FF) have I gotten the check and have felt we absolutely did not get our money's worth. But I've had even worse sticker shock at character meals (the H&V Jedi Mickey meal a few years ago was so expensive for what was essentially a complete chaotic, inedible nightmare). We are doing the HBD Pixar package in a few weeks and already know my bill will be $87 plus tax and tip (1 child and 1 adult) and that includes an appetizer, entree and dessert. I just don't think that's that bad.

 

[JerseyJanice]

Menus should entice diners to order the food. Many recent Disney menus I've seen do not accomplish that.

I don't think that listing unusual ingredients is the way to write a menu. Look at the dessert that comes with the dehydrated milk foam. What it should convey is that you are ordering an undersea garden of confectionery treats. Instead, it states that you're getting a tasting of 3 sea salts and pistachio sand. Who wants to eat salt and sand, even it is powdered pistachios?

 

[DisneyWishes14]

Menus should entice diners to order the food. Many recent Disney menus I've seen do not accomplish that.

I don't think that listing unusual ingredients is the way to write a menu. Look at the dessert that comes with the dehydrated milk foam. What it should convey is that you are ordering an undersea garden of confectionery treats. Instead, it states that you're getting a tasting of 3 sea salts and pistachio sand. Who wants to eat salt and sand, even it is powdered pistachios?

On the FF menu, right? Yes, not enticing at all. I don't want a salt sampling for dessert. When we went to FF, we were so disappointed and ended up drowning our dining sorrows in some big scoops of Ample Hills ice cream!

 

[DisBuckMan]

Disney doesn't lower prices because that would lower revenue. Lowering prices makes the restaurant have to feed more people to make the same amount of money. Offering discounts to "more frequent" visitors (AP's, FL residents) is simply an enticement to given to a very small portion of the average daily visitor to WDW to make others think about becoming an AP holder, therefore enticing them to come more often...and spend more money.

The new Florida resident deal is to entice new business that's not already coming in. The cost involved to provide free valet parking and appetizers is very minimal to the restaurant. I would say that the actual food cost for most apps is probably in the $1-$2 per range. Tack a required entree on top of it (especially at signature restaurants), and you're rolling it in.

You lower prices, you're losing revenue on every head that comes in the door. There aren't many restaurants in business that can't tell you what their average $ per guest is. Higher is better. You offer an enticement (like free apps), you raise your costs very minimally to experience a larger growth in revenue.

 

[Westcoastwild]

Disney restaurant prices, particularly at the signature locations, are so high it's hilarious at this point. I have spent virtually my entire life living in and around New York. I'm fortunate to have access to literally hundreds of the world's best dining establishments and have partook in quite a few over the years. For the most part, they are more reasonable than Disney's restaurants, and that's in a city where the rent can practically bankrupt a person.

Flying Fish, which by all accounts is a good restaurant, is currently offering a octopus, shrimp and Chilean sea bass dish for $49. Where I live, the only dishes that cost that much are high-end steaks, lobster and other dishes with exotic or rare ingredients, like truffles. There is literally a gastropub near my office in Times Square, one of the most expensive pieces of real estate on Earth, that sells Chilean sea bass for $27. It's utter nonsense.

Right??

People are aware that Disney food is expensive but I don't think many realize just how overpriced it is. Even their "exotic" food is about as exotic as a menu at a gastropub. I've seen several gushing reviews for flying fish but it cannot possibly be worth those prices.

But I bet you most people who buy the sea bass at FF would not buy it elsewhere. Because it's Disney, it's a "safe" adventure.

 

[Westcoastwild]

Menus should entice diners to order the food. Many recent Disney menus I've seen do not accomplish that.

I don't think that listing unusual ingredients is the way to write a menu. Look at the dessert that comes with the dehydrated milk foam. What it should convey is that you are ordering an undersea garden of confectionery treats. Instead, it states that you're getting a tasting of 3 sea salts and pistachio sand. Who wants to eat salt and sand, even it is powdered pistachios?

Except it is elsewhere. That is a typical way to write a menu. My main gripe about Disney is how dumbed down many of the menus are. Many people do care about the unusual descriptions. That description tells you exactly what you're getting- you left off the chocolate and the sponge.

 

[porschegrl]

shishito is mushrums

Shishitos are peppers. I've never had them, but I do watch an inordinate amount of Food Network

 

[porschegrl]

Except it is elsewhere. That is a typical way to write a menu. My main gripe about Disney is how dumbed down many of the menus are. Many people do care about the unusual descriptions. That description tells you exactly what you're getting- you left off the chocolate and the sponge.

Valrhona chocolate, no less. Swanky!

 

[wilkeliza]

Shishitos are peppers. I've never had them, but I do watch an inordinate amount of Food Network

You are correct. I was thinking of Shiitake mushrooms haha. Shishito peppers are fun in that 1 in 10 are super hot and there is no way to know. My fiance and his best buddy love them. I don't like peppers so don't eat them.

 

[piccolopat]

I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you there. Chefs in NYC and other large cities often shop for ingredients every morning at local markets. They aren't buying mass quantities from Sysco (or whatever supplier WDW uses). They don't keep large amounts of meat and fish in freezers. I guarantee you the chef at Flying Fish isn't having the Chilean Sea Bass flown in every morning directly from Chile. He is getting it from the same supplier that other local restaurants use.

Most people also don't know that Chilean Sea Bass is a type of cod (formerly known as Patagonian toothfish) and lives in a lot of places, not just Chile.