Helping out family members with $$$$$$$

[NanaTigger]

I'm a regular member on the dis and have a people who know me, so I have made a new screen name for myself.

Hopefully this won't be too long..........My Dmil died in October and her son (my DH'd twin brother) was living with her in a double wide trailer in rural Alabama OR I should say living off her.
He has had two DUI's has crashed two cars (he goes to court ordered AA meetings once a week)
He had a few thousand dollars in CC debt (with a collection agency) and had filed bankruptcy in 2001. He works $9.50 an hour at a dead end job (they are always short of work and he's had his hours cut many times).
After my Dmil died we sat down with him and my DH told him he would help him out by paying his bills = propane gas, electric, water, direct tv, pharmacy bill. (And paid off all his CC debt).
DH's twin is diabetic, (he also has COPD) he does not take care of himself, his sugar levels are either high or low and he has had many trips to the hospital (making more bills). He is currently trying to get his drivers licence back he lost it from the DUI's, and can't get another because of his lack of control over his diabetes. (the doctor has not signed off on his paper work).
So far we have spent $6,300+ paying for his brothers bills.
When DH first decided to help, DH told his brother all he wanted him to do was save his money for a car, he would take care of his bills. Well, since October 2009 DH's twin has not saved.......he has $250 in his bank account and that includes $1,000 in tax money he got back.
In fairness DHs twin pays his sister (she is herself on disability and has no means to help) for a ride to work and back, $75 a week, plus gas.
When DH decided to help his brother he was in a very emotional state after losing his mother.
This has caused many arguments between DH and myself.
Is DH an Enabler?

 

[NYCDiane]

Money + Relatives/Friends = Bad Mix

Your DH needs to open his eyes and see what's happening. Your BIL is not going to save money for anything as long as he has your DH to bail him out and his sister to give him rides.

If he's working, why isn't he paying his own bills?? Or at least part of them?? If your DH wants him to save money for a car, maybe DH should start going to his trailer every payday and take $150-$200 to put in an account for a car?

I just don't get this. Your BIL is obviously a grown man. Time to stop treating him like a child. Tell DH to cut the strings.

 

[NanaTigger]

Money + Relatives/Friends = Bad Mix

Your DH needs to open his eyes and see what's happening. Your BIL is not going to save money for anything as long as he has your DH to bail him out and his sister to give him rides.

If he's working, why isn't he paying his own bills?? Or at least part of them?? If your DH wants him to save money for a car, maybe DH should start going to his trailer every payday and take $150-$200 to put in an account for a car?

I just don't get this. Your BIL is obviously a grown man. Time to stop treating him like a child. Tell DH to cut the strings.

They are aged 47........we live too far away I wish we could check up on him more!! He buys his groceries that's it. I forgot to add back in Oct he was paying child support $90 a week, but that stopped in March 2010. I was hoping he would start paying bills then!

 

[sjs314]

I'm a regular member on the dis and have a people who know me, so I have made a new screen name for myself.

Hopefully this won't be too long..........My Dmil died in October and her son (my DH'd twin brother) was living with her in a double wide trailer in rural Alabama OR I should say living off her.
He has had two DUI's has crashed two cars (he goes to court ordered AA meetings once a week)
He had a few thousand dollars in CC debt (with a collection agency) and had filed bankruptcy in 2001. He works $9.50 an hour at a dead end job (they are always short of work and he's had his hours cut many times).
After my Dmil died we sat down with him and my DH told him he would help him out by paying his bills = propane gas, electric, water, direct tv, pharmacy bill. (And paid off all his CC debt).
DH's twin is diabetic, (he also has COPD) he does not take care of himself, his sugar levels are either high or low and he has had many trips to the hospital (making more bills). He is currently trying to get his drivers licence back he lost it from the DUI's, and can't get another because of his lack of control over his diabetes. (the doctor has not signed off on his paper work).
So far we have spent $6,300+ paying for his brothers bills.
When DH first decided to help, DH told his brother all he wanted him to do was save his money for a car, he would take care of his bills. Well, since October 2009 DH's twin has not saved.......he has $250 in his bank account and that includes $1,000 in tax money he got back.
In fairness DHs twin pays his sister (she is herself on disability and has no means to help) for a ride to work and back, $75 a week, plus gas.When DH decided to help his brother he was in a very emotional state after losing his mother.
This has caused many arguments between DH and myself.
Is DH an Enabler?

I think it would be a bit harsh to call your DH an enabler, I totally understand trying to help out family and sorry it is causing you both to argue.
I can tell you one thing I would be very upset with the sister who is chargeing such an outragous amount to her brother for the rides back and forth to work. You said his hours have been cut at a job only paying $9.50, and she is taking $300 plus a month for "helping" her brother out ? Some help, if he carries medical insurance that takes a hefty chunk of $ out of his pay, not to mention co-pays on diabetic drugs is not cheap either maybe he can not afford his drugs and that could be a reason his diabetes is not good.

I think you all need to sit down and discuss what you will do in the future (includeing the sister), let the brother know you and DH can not keep helping as much as you have been and get to the root of where he is spending his paychecks (meds or what).

I wish you luck in solving this family matter.

 

[trekkie2]

so sorry you have found yourself in this situation. I have had to make some decisions around this recently too and it is so hard. My 19 yo daughter who has PPD (autism disorder) and i think some mental health issues went crazy this week and married a loser ( no job, no money, no car and lives off his grandparents) after knowing him for 2 weeks. My family has killed themselves to stop this before it happened, but she chose to continue. It's been 4 days and apparently he/they have already blown through her money and she dosent get another paycheck for a week, came over to borrow money.

I have made the decision that i will help her if the situation is dangerous or have horrible long term conquences, but i will not help if she is just uncomfortable. Uncomfortable will hopefully promote making some better choices and sometimes having someone in your life like this is like living with a substance abuser. for my health and the health of our family, i have chosen not to enable this. But it is SO hard!!

good luck and remember that you need to care for you and your family first and let the other adults in your life care for themselves. We have family meetings (we call them interventions when there is a problem) it may be a good way to let his family know how you both are feeling, draw some lines about what you are willing to do to help, and what the consequences will be if he dosent do his part.

 

[beansmom]

ok, it's time for DH to cut the cord. Brother is looking for a handout, not a hand up. I'm sure you have your own bills that need to be paid.

I would tell DH that he needs to tell bro that in 60 days the gravy train stops. I agree that if he hasn't made any progress up to this point, he never will. I DATED him...well, not him but someone like him...it just goes from bad to worse.

I'm sure it's a huge issue between you two...I wish you the best of luck.

 

[dzorn]

Yes!

Denise

 

[dreamin_disney]

a mooch will only mooch as much as you let them. It's time for your BIL to get it together! BUT it doesnt seem like he needs to because he now has your brother to take care of him. If he is low income he should be able to get medical or something to help with his diabetic meds. Some may think I'm being mean but I have a sister who is the same way. Expect everything for free in life, makes everyone feel sorry for her. Then i hear she spend her money like crazy but no one knows on what because she has nothing to show for, she lives free in my mom house. Her kids are even tired of her. She's good at making them feel guilty so they give in to giving her money. I finally had to walk away because it's so draining. Look back to their childhood and it seems to be a pattern looking back my sister has always been the same and will never change and she's in her latre 40's


Good luck to you and I hope hubby really realize it's affecting your relationship

 

[S. C.]

I think it would be a bit harsh to call your DH an enabler, I totally understand trying to help out family and sorry it is causing you both to argue.
I can tell you one thing I would be very upset with the sister who is chargeing such an outragous amount to her brother for the rides back and forth to work. You said his hours have been cut at a job only paying $9.50, and she is taking $300 plus a month for "helping" her brother out ? Some help, if he carries medical insurance that takes a hefty chunk of $ out of his pay, not to mention co-pays on diabetic drugs is not cheap either maybe he can not afford his drugs and that could be a reason his diabetes is not good.

I think you all need to sit down and discuss what you will do in the future (includeing the sister), let the brother know you and DH can not keep helping as much as you have been and get to the root of where he is spending his paychecks (meds or what).

I wish you luck in solving this family matter.

I agree with this! plus $90 a week in child support seems too high for what he makes an hour, add that to the $300 for the ride, groceries, and his cut back hours. Someone does need to go over expenses/income with him.

 

[Tink-n-MrIncredible]

Your MIL was the enabler and now your husband has taken her place. My MIL and her sister are enablers to my DH's brother. He is in his 40's and they treat him like he is 5. My SIL and I talk about this all the time how they are actually hurting him instead of helping him. People like your BIL expect things to be given to him by family members as this is how he has been treated for several years. Now is the time to cut the cord.

 

[NanaTigger]

I agree with this! plus $90 a week in child support seems too high for what he makes an hour, add that to the $300 for the ride, groceries, and his cut back hours. Someone does need to go over expenses/income with him.

He stopped paying child support in March.

 

[NanaTigger]

Your MIL was the enabler and now your husband has taken her place. My MIL and her sister are enablers to my DH's brother. He is in his 40's and they treat him like he is 5. My SIL and I talk about this all the time how they are actually hurting him instead of helping him. People like your BIL expect things to be given to him by family members as this is how he has been treated for several years. Now is the time to cut the cord.

Wow.....she did treat him like a child.

 

[NanaTigger]

I think it would be a bit harsh to call your DH an enabler, I totally understand trying to help out family and sorry it is causing you both to argue.
I can tell you one thing I would be very upset with the sister who is chargeing such an outragous amount to her brother for the rides back and forth to work. You said his hours have been cut at a job only paying $9.50, and she is taking $300 plus a month for "helping" her brother out ? Some help, if he carries medical insurance that takes a hefty chunk of $ out of his pay, not to mention co-pays on diabetic drugs is not cheap either maybe he can not afford his drugs and that could be a reason his diabetes is not good.

I think you all need to sit down and discuss what you will do in the future (includeing the sister), let the brother know you and DH can not keep helping as much as you have been and get to the root of where he is spending his paychecks (meds or what).

I wish you luck in solving this family matter.

Thanks.......yes, he does have medical insurance, DH pays his pharmacy bill it was $174.90 last month. He is just not motivated to keep his sugar levels under control.

 

[S. C.]

He stopped paying child support in March.

Went back and re-read, I missed it the first time.

 

[aggielawyer]

It sounds like your BIL has a lot of issues holding him back, but he's causing most of them by his own behavior. So what would happen if DH cut him off? Has he discussed the issue with his sister? If your DH stops giving him money, but then the sister starts trying to help him more, then she'll just resent your DH. If they can both get on the same page, I suggest that they have a family meeting and tell BIL that the funds will stop on XX date. Give him some time to save up some money, but then they have to stand behind what they've told him. Probably, since he's been bailed out all his life, he won't believe it and won't save up anything before the deadline.

If your DH decides to change things, he's going to have to be prepared for the hell that is sure to follow.

 

[PinkJade]

I used to work as a social worker, and I have seen situations similar to this all the time. Probably to an even worse degree than this one.

Generally speaking my opinion is if you can afford to give the brother money (it isn't causing you any financial hardship), it makes you feel good and there are no strings attached you should go ahead and continue to help him. But it doesn't sound like this is the case.

If you take a step back from the situation and look at it seems as though your BIL is taking advantage of the situation. He doesn't have any motivation to change his behaviors. He has had issues with substance abuse and probably is very impulsive in general.

Think about these questions, what would happen if you stopped giving him money? Would he lose his housing, would he no longer have electricity or heat, would he stop taking his medication? Who else could help him if he needed it? Would he do anything to help himself if he was faced with this situation? How would you feel if you stopped giving him money and the worst possible scenario happened?

I agree that you need to sit down with your BIL and SIL and discuss what your willing to do. If the BIL likes to guilt trip be prepared, you probably know some the excuses he will come up with. Genuinely express your concerns and where you are coming from. Be upfront and honest with him will probably work the best. However where I have seen people have the biggest problems is when you tell the other person what to do, if you want to pay the bills, have the bills mailed to you and pay them, I would discourage giving him a lump sum of money to do whatever, unless you feel he has been using the money appropriately. If he would be up to it sit down with him and make a budget, find out where the money is going. It won't be easy and you should only do what you are comfortable doing. After that it is your BIL's problem.

If you keep handing out money he will always be there asking for it, even if he doesn't really need it. (An example I would have clients that after receiving food stamps would continue to visit the same food banks the same amount of times as they did before they got them, because they could - once you have something you don't want to give it up )

So long story short, set up boundaries and enforce them!

 

[NanaTigger]

It sounds like your BIL has a lot of issues holding him back, but he's causing most of them by his own behavior. So what would happen if DH cut him off? Has he discussed the issue with his sister? If your DH stops giving him money, but then the sister starts trying to help him more, then she'll just resent your DH. If they can both get on the same page, I suggest that they have a family meeting and tell BIL that the funds will stop on XX date. Give him some time to save up some money, but then they have to stand behind what they've told him. Probably, since he's been bailed out all his life, he won't believe it and won't save up anything before the deadline.

If your DH decides to change things, he's going to have to be prepared for the hell that is sure to follow.

If DH cut him off?.......I don't think he will.
It just seems like an expensive bandaid that is not FIXING anything. I think that's what's bothering me, I just can't see an end to this!
DH is not speaking to his sister right now......they have never got on. I think the last straw was she sold Dmil's car and kept the money for herself!

 

[LuLuO]

I understand that your DH wants to help his brother. It is admirable, but yes, he is continuing to enable his brother, just like his mother probably did. IMHO you may as well be flushing the money down the toilet.

BIL is a grown man and needs to do for himself. It sounds like no one has made him do that. I feel that you have done enough. Set a firm date for the money flow to end and stick to it. Give him 30 days or whatever DH is comfortable with.

Your DH's generosity is being taken advantage of. Sad but true.

Sorry you are dealing with this.

 

[NanaTigger]

I used to work as a social worker, and I have seen situations similar to this all the time. Probably to an even worse degree than this one.

Generally speaking my opinion is if you can afford to give the brother money (it isn't causing you any financial hardship), it makes you feel good and there are no strings attached you should go ahead and continue to help him. But it doesn't sound like this is the case.

If you take a step back from the situation and look at it seems as though your BIL is taking advantage of the situation. He doesn't have any motivation to change his behaviors. He has had issues with substance abuse and probably is very impulsive in general.

Think about these questions, what would happen if you stopped giving him money? Would he lose his housing, would he no longer have electricity or heat, would he stop taking his medication? Who else could help him if he needed it? Would he do anything to help himself if he was faced with this situation? How would you feel if you stopped giving him money and the worst possible scenario happened?

I agree that you need to sit down with your BIL and SIL and discuss what your willing to do. If the BIL likes to guilt trip be prepared, you probably know some the excuses he will come up with. Genuinely express your concerns and where you are coming from. Be upfront and honest with him will probably work the best. However where I have seen people have the biggest problems is when you tell the other person what to do, if you want to pay the bills, have the bills mailed to you and pay them, I would discourage giving him a lump sum of money to do whatever, unless you feel he has been using the money appropriately. If he would be up to it sit down with him and make a budget, find out where the money is going. It won't be easy and you should only do what you are comfortable doing. After that it is your BIL's problem.

If you keep handing out money he will always be there asking for it, even if he doesn't really need it. (An example I would have clients that after receiving food stamps would continue to visit the same food banks the same amount of times as they did before they got them, because they could - once you have something you don't want to give it up )

So long story short, set up boundaries and enforce them!

Thanks.........Yes, I think he is impulsive!! You really hit the nail on the head so to speak!
We do pay his bills no money changes hands He calls and tells us when he gets a bill, the amount. We have his accounts set up on bill pay. Most times I end up calling him! He has lost bills! He lost the new bank card his bank sent him last week, and had to pay cash for everything. In fact I think that helped him spend less!!!

 

[Luvchefmic]

I have a question...this home he's living in was it paid for when MIL passed away? Who was it left too ? If not, who is paying the mortgage? Bear with me I'm thinking......