Help with reward system for 4 year old....

[WDWorBUST]

My DD - who is 4 - really wants a puppy. Me and DH are not opposed to a new dog but we're not ready quite yet so we're taking this opportunity to teach her the value of "earning" something she really wants. Up to this point she hasn't had that lesson - but then I think she is really getting to the age that the idea would work and "stick" with her about achieving things with hard work. So what do we have her do (chores, behavior, etc) and what value do we assign to it?? So far I have allowed her to use 1/2 her piggy bank money (I just took it to the bank today) and for helping her daddy clean her fish tank I gave her $5 (that is a high dollar job - I want most to be around a $1 or even $0.50.) I made her a chart that we would color in each dollar as she gets there. She has to earn $200 before we can start shopping for a dog and I expect that to be about 1/2 and if we luck out and find what we are looking for for less or free (which I would love) then we'll use the money she has earned for pet care. This is going to be her dog.....I want her to be responsible for feeding, walking, etc (with help as necessary). We would like for it to take her until her birthday (November) to earn enough. The main things we are working on with her behavior-wise is listening and sleeping all night by herself in her own bed. So I'd love to hear some suggestions on making this a really positive experience for us all.

 

[Tnkrbelle565]

My DD - who is 4 - really wants a puppy. Me and DH are not opposed to a new dog but we're not ready quite yet so we're taking this opportunity to teach her the value of "earning" something she really wants. Up to this point she hasn't had that lesson - but then I think she is really getting to the age that the idea would work and "stick" with her about achieving things with hard work. So what do we have her do (chores, behavior, etc) and what value do we assign to it?? So far I have allowed her to use 1/2 her piggy bank money (I just took it to the bank today) and for helping her daddy clean her fish tank I gave her $5 (that is a high dollar job - I want most to be around a $1 or even $0.50.) I made her a chart that we would color in each dollar as she gets there. She has to earn $200 before we can start shopping for a dog and I expect that to be about 1/2 and if we luck out and find what we are looking for for less or free (which I would love) then we'll use the money she has earned for pet care. This is going to be her dog.....I want her to be responsible for feeding, walking, etc (with help as necessary). We would like for it to take her until her birthday (November) to earn enough. The main things we are working on with her behavior-wise is listening and sleeping all night by herself in her own bed. So I'd love to hear some suggestions on making this a really positive experience for us all.

Can your 4 year old care for a puppy? I know that mine wouldn't be able to. She would enjoy joining me for a walk with the puppy but wouldn't be able to actually hold the leash and not have the dog take off on her (we plan to get a lab or something similar sized). She still hasn't mastered the art of feeding the cat w/o me having to clean up after her . My DD can make her bed (it's a queen size but she does remarkably well with it) so that is on her chore chart. We also put things on there that she struggles with: going to bed w/o and argument, getting dressed by herself (she is really lazy around this and always wants us to "help"), brushing her own hair, and picking up toys w/o being asked. She also has to clear the dishes after dinner. Sorry I can't help more...we just haven't found a lot of chores that she is capable of doing. Good Luck!!!

 

[WDWorBUST]

I'm hoping by the time she is able to get the dog she will be able to do "most" of the care for the dog. Right now we have a dog we've had for almost 13 years that although does really well with her will not "play" with her. 1.) She's old (obviously) and 2.) Sammi will throw the ball for her and she'll go get it and bring it to us. So my hope is that the dog knows it belongs to Sam....but I don't expect her to do absolutely everything. Does that make sense?

The listening thing is really driving me crazy. It is so tempting to tell her that every time I have to tell her something more than twice she loses a dollar. BUT - I don't really think it's a good idea. I want to praise and reward her when she does listen. But it is HARD

I am leaning towards fewer chores and more behavior since that is where our problems lie moreso. She is actually a very well behaved sweet child - I know I'm supposed to say that but it's true Right now she is singing "You'll be in My Heart" to her baby to go to sleep. (Yes it's past her bedtime but we're heading that way right now).

Thanks for the suggestions so far - I do really appreciate it.

 

[TheLittleRoo]

When my son was 4 or 5, I was really having a hard time getting him to behave and use good manners. It was so embarrassing to go places and have him act like a crazy monkey! A rude crazy monkey at that!

What I found that really worked was a marble jar. I got a fishbowl (tiny, like for a single beta) and a bag of marbles (enough to fill the jar). I told him that every time I gave him a compliment for using good manners or doing what I asked him to do, I would put a marble in the jar. Every time, so that could be quite a few marbles in one day. When the jar was full, I would take him to Toys R Us and he could pick out one toy up to $25.

Also, if a family member or family friend (someone who already knew him) or teacher gave him a compliment on his behavior or his manners or anything really, he would get 5 marbles.

And the best part? If a total stranger gave him a compliment, he would get 25 marbles!! Do you know what that did?? He became the most compliant, well-mannered ANGEL when we went to the store, the restaurant, the dentist, ANYWHERE! He would bend over backwards to get the dentist, waitress, store clerk, who-ever! to notice his good manners and comment on it!

Maybe something like that could work for your daughter too?

 

[Disney1976]

I'm hoping by the time she is able to get the dog she will be able to do "most" of the care for the dog. Right now we have a dog we've had for almost 13 years that although does really well with her will not "play" with her. 1.) She's old (obviously) and 2.) Sammi will throw the ball for her and she'll go get it and bring it to us. So my hope is that the dog knows it belongs to Sam....but I don't expect her to do absolutely everything. Does that make sense?

The listening thing is really driving me crazy. It is so tempting to tell her that every time I have to tell her something more than twice she loses a dollar. BUT - I don't really think it's a good idea. I want to praise and reward her when she does listen. But it is HARD

I am leaning towards fewer chores and more behavior since that is where our problems lie moreso. She is actually a very well behaved sweet child - I know I'm supposed to say that but it's true Right now she is singing "You'll be in My Heart" to her baby to go to sleep. (Yes it's past her bedtime but we're heading that way right now).

Thanks for the suggestions so far - I do really appreciate it.

I remember reading somewhere that most kids aren't really ready for the responsibility of a dog (especially a puppy) until around 8 or 9. I know years ago, with my former stepson, he couldn't handle my dog or the puppy we later got at all. He couldn't manage the dog on a leash; there was no way he could feed the dog on his own (unless I wanted a mess all over the floor, lol), and he didn't quite get how to "play" with the puppy -often he was rough (and sometimes borderline mean) when the puppy was just being a puppy. He would also get sooooo upset when the dog wouldn't sleep with him, and couldn't understand that I couldn't force the dog to stay in one spot.

If this is something your family wants, great, but I think it is you and your spouse who will end up doing most of the daily care.

 

[thegrimdwarf]

I think you're setting everyone up for failure if you truly expect the dog to be the responsibility of the 4 year old. I've had at least one dog as a pet for nearly 25 years, I've worked as a dog trainer, and I'm a breed-specific rescue volunteer. The biggest behavior problems I have ever seen stem from a child 'owning' a dog. I understand that most parents think a pet is a great way to teach a young child about responsibility, but a dog is just too much work for a child under the age of 10. So to have her go through a very long and hard lesson about earning what she wants, only to have it be too much for her, seems very mean to me.

Please reconsider bringing a dog into your home if you expect your 4 year old to be the caretaker - it will not work out well.

 

[rottiemom]

If this is something your family wants, great, but I think it is you and your spouse who will end up doing most of the daily care.

I absolutely agree. You & your spouse will be the ones ultimately taking care of this dog.

Let me preface this by saying that I volunteer with a breed specific (rottweiler) rescue & I also happen to have a 4yo. He has a 4yo's attention span. And while he will occasionally feed the dog or the cat I'm usually the one doing it (which is fine...they were in the house before my son was ). Taking care of a pet; real, true care is a lot to expect of a 4 or 5 year old. How is your daughter going to react if one of her toys gets destroyed by the puppy (it's bound to happen). The reality of a puppy is a lot different from the idea of one.

Especially with a puppy, there's a lot of training involved (ahhh, housebreaking) and a lot of mistakes that can be made. Puppys nip and they're also fragile. Both children & puppies can be easily hurt. And many of the dogs that end up in rescue started out as puppies that seemed like a great idea at the time.

Now, as far as your existing dog not wanting to play fetch with your child...I can help. Is your dog food motivated? If so, have your little girl throw the ball, then have her tell the dog to "come", showing the dog the treat. When the dog brings the ball back have her give the dog the treat, saying "good come!" Try yummy things that the dog usually doesn't get like tiny bits of chicken or bologna, even cheese. The dog will learn that bringing the dog to your little girl is a good thing & will also start to learn "come" (if he doesn't already). Trust me, you can teach an old dog new tricks.

I started with my son at 18 months, having him give our dog commands & letting him reward her for obeying them. We started simple with him telling her to "sit" while waiting for her dinner (which we had been training her to do anyway) now she obeys him about as well as she obeys us and she knows numerous commands. We adopted her when she was 2, she was completely untrained & had numerous "bad" habits (things that just had never been adressed when she was a puppy) and by the time my son was born a year later she was well on her way to being a great dog.

When the time comes that your family is ready for another dog I strongly urge you to consider rescue. While you may not find a brand new puppy there are many great dogs in need of homes and the adoption fee is going to be a lot less than what a puppy would cost from a breeder or pet store.

Good luck!

 

[Manda]

I think that maybe earning until November may be too long of a timeframe for her to really "get" it. You might need to do a smaller reward system first to cement the idea in her head and then start the big one closer to when you are planning on getting the dog. I just did a reward chart thing for my son. It was over a period of 4 weeks and at the end of each week, he got a reward that got progressively bigger until the last reward (the big thing he was working towards). And, honestly, even though it was something he'd been begging for, even 4 weeks for him was a long time to stay interested.

I like the marble jar idea the other person gave, too, because it gives the little one a clear visual understanding of how much they are earning. Dollar bills are a lot harder for them to visualize and understand how much they have and how close the are to having enough.

And be careful with paying for chores... then you get a kid who thinks you need to pay them for everything they do around the house. I'd go more for the random reward when the child does something to help when you didn't even have to ask. Spontaneous giving after the fact is a reward and positive reinforcement, negotiating a fee prior is bribing.

 

[minkydog]

If you think a 4yo is capable of taking care of a living creature, you're fooling yourself. Certainly she can put water in the bowl and perhaps feed the dog (assuming you've trained the dog *first* to allow her to feed it.) Having a new puppy in the house is a lot like raising a baby. There's a reason we don't let 4yo's raise babies--they aren't very good at it.

If you want to get a dog, get a dog. But understand that this is YOUR little red wagon, not hers. Don't be surprised if she loses interest in the "caring" portion of dog ownership very quickly.

 

[Russian-in-Kansas]

I also think a dog is too huge of a responsibility for a child so young. There really is a lot more to raising a dog than just walking and feeding her and a four year old is not capable of performing such tasks satisfactory. I would honestly just get another dog if you wish for it, but as a family dog, not the child's dog.
In my house we have stationary chore charts with weekly rewards. That way the kids are working for something within reach and I think it reinforces their good behavior and skills. Our rewards are based on points and they can pick an activity for the weekend (zoo, roller rink, movies,etc.)

 

[brergnat]

Get her a fish first. If she can keep the fish alive for a year, consider a hamster next.

Seriously, no offense meant, but it is crazy to think that a 4 year old can (and will want to) take care of a puppy.

I begged and pleaded for a dog my whole life. I finally got a puppy when I was 12. The novelty wore off on the first night, when I was kept up all night cleaning pee and poop out of the carpet and listening to the puppy whine. By 2am, I was crying because I was so tired, and my dad had to take over for me. I loved my dog, but I HATED the work involved in taking care of it. I still love dogs, but I will not ever get one again, I don't think. They are just too much work.

A dog should be the LAST pet a kid gets, after working up to it. You should never start with a dog on a kid that wants a pet.

 

[M&E]

I hope this will help. I am in basically your same situation. I have two sons. The youngest is almost 4 and the oldest if 5. Currently your daughter is closer to my youngest son's age. By November she'll be closer to my older son's age. Anyways, we just got a puppy one month ago. She's about 3.5 months old right now. She's a small labradoodle and will weight about 25 pounds when full grown (10 pounds now). My older son has been begging for a pet for at least a year. We felt like a dog would be a wonderful addition to our family. (My only stipulation was that it be a girl dog! (ha ha) Let me say that having a puppy has been so much fun! She is just the cutest little ball of fur ever! My oldest son adores her. He cuddles with her all the time. I will find the two of them curled up on the floor together. He helps out a lot (takes her outside, plays with her, and will set her food bowl down after I fill it). Please note that these are all "occasional" He does not consistently help. My younger son is a little different. He likes the puppy, but he's only 40 inches tall and when she jumps (which she does a lot since she's still a puppy) she almost knocks him over! I think it's great that you want the dog to be your daughter's dog and that she will be responsible for the dog, however, I do not think this will happen. Of course I do not know your daughter, but it has not been the case in our house. A couple of reasons... dogs see people as other dogs. We aren't humans to them. We are simply other dogs to play with and control. It is very easy for an active puppy to be the one "in charge" when it comes to children. I have taught our puppy "sit" and "down" which she does very well with myself and my husband. She does not, however, listen to my boys. Also, and I think this is honestly the best comparison. A puppy is just like a toddler! Honest to goodness, over the last month I have often felt like I have three kids! She needs constant supervision. I am willing to take on this responsibility. Would you allow your daughter to be "in charge" of a toddler? I doubt it. She's not ready for it!

Good luck finding a dog. It is a blast.

 

[WDWorBUST]

Okay - I wrote out one post and just deleted it because I know it sounded ugly and I don't intend it that way - but this is going to sound snippy but I truly don't mean it ugly....

I am NOT stupid. I don't expect to get my daughter a dog and say here ya go honey and wash my hands of it. I do HAVE a 4 1/2 year old - I know what they are like....and more importantly I know what MINE is like.

My daughter has 3 fish she has kept alive for almost a year already and when we got her those we told her that if that went well then we'd talk about a puppy. By the time we actually get a puppy those fish will have been a part of our family over a year. (I had thought of the hamster escalation but honestly I don't want a hamster - I had them growing up)

She is not capable of being soley responsible for a dog. But this will be her dog and she will go to "puppy school" right along with the puppy and me. That is one of the expenses we are already planning for and I have started researching because I will not go to one that will not let her be a part of it. We want this dog to be a part of our family. We are thoroughly researching breeds and breeders currently to try and find the right match.

I do appreciate all input and would appreciate more input. If you can also recommend a breed I would appreciate it. I do not want a large dog and do not want one that requires extensive grooming. Daily walks I'm expecting- but we do also have a huge fenced backyard to play in. So if you know the "perfect" breed for us please share

 

[Disney1976]

Okay - I wrote out one post and just deleted it because I know it sounded ugly and I don't intend it that way - but this is going to sound snippy but I truly don't mean it ugly....

I am NOT stupid. I don't expect to get my daughter a dog and say here ya go honey and wash my hands of it. I do HAVE a 4 1/2 year old - I know what they are like....and more importantly I know what MINE is like.

My daughter has 3 fish she has kept alive for almost a year already and when we got her those we told her that if that went well then we'd talk about a puppy. By the time we actually get a puppy those fish will have been a part of our family over a year. (I had thought of the hamster escalation but honestly I don't want a hamster - I had them growing up)

She is not capable of being soley responsible for a dog. But this will be her dog and she will go to "puppy school" right along with the puppy and me. That is one of the expenses we are already planning for and I have started researching because I will not go to one that will not let her be a part of it. We want this dog to be a part of our family. We are thoroughly researching breeds and breeders currently to try and find the right match.

I do appreciate all input and would appreciate more input. If you can also recommend a breed I would appreciate it. I do not want a large dog and do not want one that requires extensive grooming. Daily walks I'm expecting- but we do also have a huge fenced backyard to play in. So if you know the "perfect" breed for us please share

Well, as far as breeds, what about a puggle? I have one, along with a Jack Rusell. The puggle (pug/beagle mix) is a wonderful dog! He's sweet and loving, and content to lay on you chewing on a bone. Mine is small, around 20 pounds, and only slightly longer than a Jack, but some can get bigger. He never bites or even tries to nip me (and he IS a puppy) and the only time I've heard him growl is at the Jack, over food.

A couple of downsides -they can howl (that's the beagle in them) and they shed, badly! But really, once you look at that sweet face...you forget.

 

[M&E]

We absolutely LOVE our labradoodle. She is just the cutest thing! Like I said earlier, we've only had her for one month, but things are going well so far. She seems very sweet and smart and very low to non shedding. (Of course I'm the proud mama If you decide on a labradoodle you will really need to do your research. Anyone can breed a labrador and a poodle and call it a labradoodle. If that is the case you will never know what you're going to get! I would suggest a multigeneration labradoodle who's bloodline traces back to Australia (where the breed started).

 

[minkydog]

We have some kind of "doodle" too. Minky is a rescue dog so we don't have a lot of info on him. His mother, a 45-lb. Standard Poodle, was given up by her breeder when she got out and bred with a local dog. Minky is black, curly and big, about 80lbs We weren't expecting him to be so big, but he really doesn't take up a lot of space. He looks very poodley and doesn't shed. He definitely has a standard poodle personality, very loyal, distinguished, smart, and appropriately energetic. Yet he is content to lay around in the house wherever he finds a sunbeam.

As a puppy our "doodle" was more like a lab: very energetic, jumpy, into everything. It was a lot like having a new baby in the house for hte first 2 years. We have a handicapped child who at the time did not even walk. We did submission training with the dog so he could learn his place in our "pack". I just didn't ever want to have a situation where I couldn't trust the dog with this child. Now, Minky is 8yo and DS is 13yo. They have a unique relationship and the dog is very watchful of Christian.

 

[rigsfhdgnv]

Okay - I wrote out one post and just deleted it because I know it sounded ugly and I don't intend it that way - but this is going to sound snippy but I truly don't mean it ugly....

I am NOT stupid. I don't expect to get my daughter a dog and say here ya go honey and wash my hands of it. I do HAVE a 4 1/2 year old - I know what they are like....and more importantly I know what MINE is like.

My daughter has 3 fish she has kept alive for almost a year already and when we got her those we told her that if that went well then we'd talk about a puppy. By the time we actually get a puppy those fish will have been a part of our family over a year. (I had thought of the hamster escalation but honestly I don't want a hamster - I had them growing up)

She is not capable of being soley responsible for a dog. But this will be her dog and she will go to "puppy school" right along with the puppy and me. That is one of the expenses we are already planning for and I have started researching because I will not go to one that will not let her be a part of it. We want this dog to be a part of our family. We are thoroughly researching breeds and breeders currently to try and find the right match.

I do appreciate all input and would appreciate more input. If you can also recommend a breed I would appreciate it. I do not want a large dog and do not want one that requires extensive grooming. Daily walks I'm expecting- but we do also have a huge fenced backyard to play in. So if you know the "perfect" breed for us please share

Just a suggestion on puppy school (though possibly a little )- I took my dog to the classes at my local Petsmart...they were great (and very cheap), and the trainers always encouraged us to bring anyone we would like to learn to train the dog (including small children). We got an 8 week class for around $100, and I saw a huge change in my dog's behavior.

 

[WDWorBUST]

Oh boy.....I'm really glad we aren't ready for a puppy because I am having a whale of a time finding a breed for us. We thought maybe a puggle - BUT we're concerned to get one with a pug's potential health problems. I'm afraid a labradoodle would get bigger than we want. I saw a fourche terrier - absolutely adorable (westie & yorkie mix) but finding one might be a challenge...and I'm not sure about a terrier to begin with. The one dog that she has said she likes is a Tibetan Spaniel...but I can't find any breeders close to us and I don't think I want to deal with having a dog shipped....but I haven't researched it to the extent to say there isn't one within driving distance.

Honestly my biggest problem is I like big dogs.....I am not a small dog person. Me and DH would like a boxer - but even though they are good with children I don't want a dog that gets that big. We may be leaning towards a corgi. The hard part is you show dd a picture of a puppy (any puppy) she likes it - but then when you show her the grown up dog that's when she doesn't like it. I keep explaining that all puppies grow up. However we did see a corgi in the park the other day and asked her if she liked that kind of dog and she said yes (It was black, tan & white - not just white & tan like we had been showing her.....not that I'm even sure that was the difference). So any thoughts on corgis.

Thanks everyone

 

[WDWorBUST]

Just a suggestion on puppy school (though possibly a little )- I took my dog to the classes at my local Petsmart...they were great (and very cheap), and the trainers always encouraged us to bring anyone we would like to learn to train the dog (including small children). We got an 8 week class for around $100, and I saw a huge change in my dog's behavior.

Not off topic at all (IMO) - I will definitely look at them as I continue my research. I have found more puppy schools in my area than I had any idea existed.

 

[minkydog]

I would strongly suggest that the main caregiver choose the dog. I wouldn't involve your child until you've made a decision. As you said, she will very likely love pretty much any breed if it is a good match for temperment & size.

My kids pestered the daylights out of me for FIVE years before I was ready to get a puppy. We had two small children and a big one, and I knew that I could not manage the needs of a puppy on my own. DH has never taken charge of our pets, other than feeding them, so all the vet stuff, grooming, walking, etc, was going to be totally my little red wagon. Like I said, I held out until *I* was ready.

Then, once I was ready, I spent a lot of time researching the kind of dog I might be interested in. I grew up with Saint Bernards. They are great dogs for families, but they are HUGE. DH grew up with small terriers and wasn't interested in anything else. We had our work cut out for us. It took a while for me to figure out what traits I was really looking for. In fact, we nearly got a golden retriever. But I finally had to admit to myself that I can't stand dog hair! Not that it bothers me a little, I really can't stand it. So back to the drawing board to find a non-shedding breed.

We ultimately decided on a standard poodle, both for the hair and the personality. We were very fortunate to find exactly what we wanted (he's a "doodle") through a rescue group so we didn't spend a ton of money either. When the time comes to get a new dog (Minky is 8yo) we'll get another smaller poodle-type.

Good luck. Take your time. Your dog with find you