Help - Newborn who will not stop crying

[WDWorBUST]

Also, please make sure she knows that if it is determined that she does need to supplement with formula until her milk comes in that she doesn't have to give the baby a bottle and worry about nipple confusion so young. I can't remember what it's called, but I know one of the ladies on here will, but it's basically a little tube that you can tape to your breast that is connected to a bottle that the baby gets formula out of while actually nursing. You can also "finger" feed with it if mom just has to have a break. With my DD I had all kinds of issues and it would have been VERY easy to give up on breastfeeding. But the hospital worked with me to overcome them and I successfully nursed for 15 months before weaning DD. Also....I was a horrible pumper....my mom had to ration the milk throughout the day for dd, however she reverse cycled and got plenty at night when I was home. I would have been willing to supplement with formula throughout the day - and tried to - but dd was stubborn and would not take it for anything. Good luck helping your friend out...it can be so trying.

 

[Cindy's Mom]

Mother of a colic baby (8 years ago) Its something that you never ever and I mean ever forget.

Its WAY TOO SOON for colic. I believe (as many others have said), "not enough breastmilk coming through.

I have a pretty large bust. When dd was born , 10 years ago, I tried breastfeeding. Turns out that I wasn't feeding my baby for 2 whole days. My milk just never came in. Luckily I had the free formula that the hospital sent home, gave her that at 3a, she suck it down and the crying ceased.

Oh....did I mention that you never ever forget colic.

 

[NotUrsula]

I've got two kids and when nursing I had overactive letdown, a VERY generous supply (so much that I donated some of it.) Both of them had human milk exclusively for the first year -- EXCEPT for during the first week. Both times, my milk didn't come in for a full six days, and the amount of colostrum was nearly nothing. Add to this that my eldest had difficulty with his sucking reflex -- he was moving he tongue the wrong way and had to be finger-fed for two weeks while he got the hang of it. (Both my kids also got monster gas tummyaches from eating formula that first week, but all in all the heavy dosing with simethicone and the gassy crying were not as bad as the hungry crying. They are REALLY shrill when they are hungry.)

This is almost surely a hungry child. She should go and see the hospital's lactation consultant in person; they are trained to figure out what the problem is. I would try to avoid using bottles to supplement this early, but a neck supplementer or finger-feeding should be workable. Send her good vibes; nursing can be a bit rough for the first 3 weeks or so, but you can't beat it for convenience and cost-savings.

 

[Mermaid02]

My first was 10 lbs, 6 oz...he was always hungry. I tried breastfeeding him but for some reason he just wasn't getting enough from me, so we started him on formula. That did the trick. I felt badly but it is what it is. He never got put down with a bottle....I treated those bottles as if they were in fact, a breast...always held him close as he drank.
Now, my dd, was much smaller. She had issues from the get go. I decided to just go right to formula, rather than nurse. She was a projectile vomiter...man,she could get some distance. She developed colic down the road. We tried every formula that was out there...finally, had to go with the evaporated milk/karo/water stuff...the old fashioned way. That helped a lot, but she was still colicky. Only time took care of that.

Try to continue nursing but if it's decided that the baby just is still hungry, a bottle is going to help a lot..even if it's just one or two a day. And don't feel guilty if that's the case. There is no 'right' way to feed your new baby.

Just wanted to second this!!

 

[lil mermaid]

At 3 days after birth her milk might not have come in yet, in which case she needs him on the breast as much as possible to stimulate the milk to come in and give him a chance to get the colostrum. She shouldn't be trying to limit his nursing time right now.

Agreed. She should nurse him as much as she possibly can to get her supply up. I'd also recommend a visit to a lactation consultant at the hospital.


Also wondering - how do they "check" for colic?

 

[sbell111]

Nope -- poop doesn't necessarily indicate it. Once my milk was in and until he started solid food, DS only pooped once a week. It was normal for him.

That is why the poster said wet or soiled diapers. He may or not poop every day, but if he's getting enough milk, he sure will be wetting.

 

[ccgirl]

Just wanted to second this!!

I just wanted to third this. I said earlier in the thread, I felt like such a failure the first time. Even though she never had nipple confusion. I was able to get her to go from breast to bottle with no issues. With my son, I just exclusively bottle fed and he turned out just fine. However, if breastfeeding is something she really wants to do she should't give up at this point. It is EXTREMELY early. The little baby isn't even a week old yet. Good luck to her though. It is not easy. Especially when it's your first.

Agreed. She should nurse him as much as she possibly can to get her supply up. I'd also recommend a visit to a lactation consultant at the hospital.


Also wondering - how do they "check" for colic?

As far as how they check for colic...basically, they rule everything else out first and if they can't find an answer it's colic. A lot of people characterize their child as having colic if they are a little fussy. Colic is usually on and off for the entire day. It isn't crying from 4pm to 5pm every night.

Here is a good informational link to colic:

http://www.medicinenet.com/colic/article.htm

 

[KiKi Mouse]

Newborns poop quite a bit, especially breastfed ones.
Newborns need to get rid of the bilirubin in their system that is why their first poops are dark which then lightens up to the mustard splats.

What color is the poop? Just wondering about jaundice.

 

[Colleen27]

Mine all had a tough "adjustment period" to the world outside the womb. By the third, I just planned on spending the first week nursing and cuddling and not doing much else. Once my milk came in full-force it got MUCH easier, but giving bottles to get through the tough time just complicates the situation. Swaddling sometimes helped, cosleeping helped, but mostly it was just a short-lived phase we had to get through.

If there was one thing I wish someone had told me when we were dealing with that with my oldest, it would be that those first weeks aren't necessarily reflective of the baby's personality - once we got past that awkward learning to nurse/milk coming in stage, all three of my kids were generally happy, easy going babies, but with my first I had no idea that it wasn't going to be like that forever!

 

[bumbershoot]

At 3 days after birth her milk might not have come in yet, in which case she needs him on the breast as much as possible to stimulate the milk to come in and give him a chance to get the colostrum. She shouldn't be trying to limit his nursing time right now.

YES.

Breast milk also digest so much faster, thus her baby wants to eat all the time.

I agree with this.

I don't really agree that bigger babies need more milk...my baby who was under 8 pounds drank tons to GET bigger...bigger babies don't have such big growth curves, usually, as I believe they are working to get back to a more average curve.

But without baby trying trying trying, working working working, to help her body make that milk, that milk won't get made.

robin, I'd send her to a lactation consultant if she needs help, not the DIS. Some of the suggestions to give formula this early could really derail breastfeeding efforts. The body is great at regulating the amount of milk the baby needs-IF the baby is given the opportunity to nurse enough to produce that milk. Pumping after fully nursing will help increase supplies, but it can take 4-5 days for milk to come in to begin with.

While I'm by no means an expert, I did successfully breastfeed all four of my children, one that was a hungry monster Was it tiring to nurse him that much? Absolutely. But it's what was needed.

As for amounts, they can also weigh the baby before and after nursing to see the difference in weight.

It's normal for a breastfed baby to lose weight in those first days, so lost weight does not necessarily indicate an issue unless it's excessive. I had one DD that went from 5lbs. 11 oz. down to 4lbs. 13 oz. , and so we (pediatrician and I) watched her closely and did frequent weight checks. As soon as the milk was in the loss reversed and she chunked right up. I'm not sure I would've won the battle on her if it hadn't been the 4th child I'd nursed, though.

I agree so very very much!

Just wanted to throw this in. Pumping is not indicative of adequate or inadequate supply. Keeping track of wet and dirty diapers is, as PP stated.

I was not a good pumper. I successfully nursed my son for 16 months and was never able to pump more than 3 ounces from both sides combined per day and that was multiple pumping sessions throught the day. So don't let her get discouraged by the amount that she is pumping. If that is what is happening.

Absolutely!

I could have fed an army of babies if they actually nursed from me...from the pump, almost nothing.

Mom also needs to make sure that she is taking in enough fluids. You cant make milk if you dont have enough fluids.

Absolutely!





All this anti-nursing advice is giving me an ulcer! I am SO glad I listened to NO ONE, not even the women on mothering.com's forums, when DS was new.

My milk didn't come in until the 5th day. It's the ONLY thing good that came out of being mystifyingly booted from the hospital 42 hours post-op, that I wasn't being watched over and given horrid advice. I was able to hole up, ignore everyone, and just pay attention to my baby.

If your friend had medication during labor, if she was given fluids via IV, if she had an epidural, if she had major abdominal surgery on the same day her baby was born, ALL of those can and usually do interfere with milk production. And if she was given fluids, those go to the baby,and can pump up their weight falsely.

And if she circumvents things early like this, THAT is going to interfere with it as well.

Even my pro-nursing aunt was getting agita, trying to get me to supplement. I tuned her out, tuned in my baby, nursed him until I was ready to scream...and on that 5th glorious day it was most excellent. Fabulous milk spilling over...would never have gotten to that if I'd followed anyone's advice.


Breastmilk (of all species) INCLUDES lactase, which is the enzyme that helps break down lactose. Since purchased milk is usually destroyed by heat, it doesn't have that...lactose intolerance is more common with that. Human breastmilk from the source is not pasteurized, and has that incredibly helpful ingredient in it! Isn't that amazing?


She needs to contact LLL counselors NOW. She needs to get people who have been there done that and gone THROUGH it, not circumvented it, on her side.

I'm sad she's going to the doctors. She will likely get bad advice there.

Being on breast and chest is NORMAL. Is she trying to do anything else? She's only had this job for 3 days, same with the baby; feeding this baby is her ONLY job right now. No dishes, no food, no laundry (unless she's using cloth diapers, in which case she might have to go laundry if she can)...others should be taking care of HER so that she can take care of the BABY.

Sleep when he sleeps. If he needs to sleep on her chest, make it work. I personally couldn't side-lie to nurse for quite awhile, but many others can do it fast; if she can, do it. Baby needs her to be there 24/7, and her milk ducts need baby to be there 24/7 as well.

 

[ccgirl]

YES.



I agree with this.

I don't really agree that bigger babies need more milk...my baby who was under 8 pounds drank tons to GET bigger...bigger babies don't have such big growth curves, usually, as I believe they are working to get back to a more average curve.

But without baby trying trying trying, working working working, to help her body make that milk, that milk won't get made.




I agree so very very much!




Absolutely!

I could have fed an army of babies if they actually nursed from me...from the pump, almost nothing.




Absolutely!





All this anti-nursing advice is giving me an ulcer! I am SO glad I listened to NO ONE, not even the women on mothering.com's forums, when DS was new.

My milk didn't come in until the 5th day. It's the ONLY thing good that came out of being mystifyingly booted from the hospital 42 hours post-op, that I wasn't being watched over and given horrid advice. I was able to hole up, ignore everyone, and just pay attention to my baby.

If your friend had medication during labor, if she was given fluids via IV, if she had an epidural, if she had major abdominal surgery on the same day her baby was born, ALL of those can and usually do interfere with milk production. And if she was given fluids, those go to the baby,and can pump up their weight falsely.

And if she circumvents things early like this, THAT is going to interfere with it as well.

Even my pro-nursing aunt was getting agita, trying to get me to supplement. I tuned her out, tuned in my baby, nursed him until I was ready to scream...and on that 5th glorious day it was most excellent. Fabulous milk spilling over...would never have gotten to that if I'd followed anyone's advice.


Breastmilk (of all species) INCLUDES lactase, which is the enzyme that helps break down lactose. Since purchased milk is usually destroyed by heat, it doesn't have that...lactose intolerance is more common with that. Human breastmilk from the source is not pasteurized, and has that incredibly helpful ingredient in it! Isn't that amazing?


She needs to contact LLL counselors NOW. She needs to get people who have been there done that and gone THROUGH it, not circumvented it, on her side.

I'm sad she's going to the doctors. She will likely get bad advice there.

Being on breast and chest is NORMAL. Is she trying to do anything else? She's only had this job for 3 days, same with the baby; feeding this baby is her ONLY job right now. No dishes, no food, no laundry (unless she's using cloth diapers, in which case she might have to go laundry if she can)...others should be taking care of HER so that she can take care of the BABY.

Sleep when he sleeps. If he needs to sleep on her chest, make it work. I personally couldn't side-lie to nurse for quite awhile, but many others can do it fast; if she can, do it. Baby needs her to be there 24/7, and her milk ducts need baby to be there 24/7 as well.

I haven't read any anti-nursing advice on here. There are some woman who can't nurse. Period. That's okay, that is NORMAL too. They should not be made to feel guilty. Perhaps that was not your intent with this post. I did go thru it, I did not circumvent it. I was one of the unfortunate ones who just couldn't produce enough milk even though my baby was feeding every 2 hours round the clock. That does happen. My DD is 8 now and nothing bad happened to her from being supplemented. My DS is almost 3 and healthy as a horse having only had formula. Please don't read my post as being anti-nursing. I am not at all. I am just saying there is a choice and nobody should be made to feel guilty for making once choice over another.

 

[Magpie]

Oh my gosh, he is SO adorable! What a beautiful baby!

I wasn't going to write out my whole story, but maybe there's something in here that can help your friend...

My daughter (my first baby) was born in our apartment just before midnight. We had a midwife and her student in attendance. They showed me how to put my baby to breast, let me have a shower and tucked the two of us into bed to rest. Then they helped my husband clean up, and left. We slept a couple hours, and then my daughter woke up crying.

I put her to breast, but after nursing for a few moments, she gave up and cried harder. She cried non-stop until 6am that morning, when I called the midwives and asked for help. They immediately told me to give her some water from a cup, and they'd be right over.

They arrived less than an hour later. They examined my daughter and said that she was thirsty, but not in any danger yet (babies can dehydrate quickly, and that's why they had told me to give her water). Then they told me to put her breast again. Well, it seems I wasn't a very good shape (too flat), and the poor baby couldn't get a good latch. I had milk, but she wasn't getting any of it.

So they made some phone calls and sent my exhausted husband out to a lactation supply place to pick up a breast pump. When he got back, they showed me how to express milk, and then how to tape a tiny tube to my thumb and get my baby to suck on that, and draw the milk from a bottle.

They didn't want to give her a plastic nipple, because they said that it's too easy for babies to get milk from a plastic nipple and she would learn bad sucking habits that would make it harder to get onto my breast later. The tube was just a temporary measure to make sure she got enough nutrition until we could get me nursing properly.

Then the midwives had me wear these... I don't know, they were like something you'd imagine a Valkyrie wearing. Big ol' breast shields, designed to draw out my nipple. My husband thought they were hilarious.

They showed me how to tease my baby's mouth open, and how grab the back of my baby's head and basically jam her onto my breast. They told me to wear the shields and practice getting her to nurse as often as either of us could stand it. And then they said they'd be back the next morning.

True to their word, the midwives came back three times the next day, twice after that, and then every day for a week. They were SO encouraging. They helped me see where we were making progress, and where we were making mistakes. By the end of the week, my daughter was finally nursing successfully and we could give back the breast pump.

I didn't know it at the time, but no one thought we could do it. Luckily my midwives didn't tell me that until later. I nursed my daughter for 15 months and then she pretty much weaned herself, probably because I got pregnant again and I guess it didn't taste right. She preferred cow's milk.

 

[ccgirl]

Oh my gosh, he is SO adorable! What a beautiful baby!

I wasn't going to write out my whole story, but maybe there's something in here that can help your friend...

My daughter (my first baby) was born in our apartment just before midnight. We had a midwife and her student in attendance. They showed me how to put my baby to breast, let me have a shower and tucked the two of us into bed to rest. Then they helped my husband clean up, and left. We slept a couple hours, and then my daughter woke up crying.

I put her to breast, but after nursing for a few moments, she gave up and cried harder. She cried non-stop until 6am that morning, when I called the midwives and asked for help. They immediately told me to give her some water from a cup, and they'd be right over.

They arrived less than an hour later. They examined my daughter and said that she was thirsty, but not in any danger yet (babies can dehydrate quickly, and that's why they had told me to give her water). Then they told me to put her breast again. Well, it seems I wasn't a very good shape (too flat), and the poor baby couldn't get a good latch. I had milk, but she wasn't getting any of it.

So they made some phone calls and sent my exhausted husband out to a lactation supply place to pick up a breast pump. When he got back, they showed me how to express milk, and then how to tape a tiny tube to my thumb and get my baby to suck on that, and draw the milk from a bottle.

They didn't want to give her a plastic nipple, because they said that it's too easy for babies to get milk from a plastic nipple and she would learn bad sucking habits that would make it harder to get onto my breast later. The tube was just a temporary measure to make sure she got enough nutrition until we could get me nursing properly.

Then the midwives had me wear these... I don't know, they were like something you'd imagine a Valkyrie wearing. Big ol' breast shields, designed to draw out my nipple. My husband thought they were hilarious.

They showed me how to tease my baby's mouth open, and how grab the back of my baby's head and basically jam her onto my breast. They told me to wear the shields and practice getting her to nurse as often as either of us could stand it. And then they said they'd be back the next morning.

True to their word, the midwives came back three times the next day, twice after that, and then every day for a week. They were SO encouraging. They helped me see where we were making progress, and where we were making mistakes. By the end of the week, my daughter was finally nursing successfully and we could give back the breast pump.

I didn't know it at the time, but no one thought we could do it. Luckily my midwives didn't tell me that until later. I nursed my daughter for 15 months and then she pretty much weaned herself, probably because I got pregnant again and I guess it didn't taste right. She preferred cow's milk.

Thank you for your informative thread and for sharing your story. I'm sure it will be able to help someone. I'm glad you didn't give up since you were producing enough milk. OT, but I just love midwives. It made is so much more of a personal experience.

 

[Wish I lived in Fl]

Is the Mom consuming any cow's milk,ice cream?


Some Doctors suggest having Mom try giving up dairy for 2 weeks to see if it helps the baby.

I had to give up milk, ice cream while nursing or baby screamed horribly.

Both of my children had a milk protein intolerance. Not a true allergy.
And I had to give up milk myself or it affected the nursing baby. First child suffered for 18 months before we figured it out with an allergist's and Pediatrician's help. (Nursed until 2 because child couldn't start drinking milk or soy themselves at 1)

With second child I tried consumiing dairy while nursing and baby was acting colicky by 3rd day. I couldn't even have a half cup of milk in my tea or baby was noticeably crankier the next day.

 

[NotUrsula]

It isn't anti-nursing advice; it's stress-management advice. The number-one reason that people who liked the idea of nursing give up early on nursing isn't because they have been told that it is OK to supplement -- it is because they just can't take the pain and exhaustion of dealing with a child who won't let go or won't stop screaming with hunger, and they are not meeting nursing advocates who are willing to acknowledge that it can be really, really hard for some people. They are made to feel like failures when their bodies alone cannot initially assuage a child's hunger, and that plus the exhaustion takes its toll. Supplementing means just that -- a "snack" that takes the edge off and lets Mom and baby concentrate on getting the nursing experience to be comfortable and companionable, rather than an agonizing exercise in marathon screaming.

There is no crime in supplementing if you need to, for whatever reason!!!! Emotional state counts, and if you are sick and tired and agitated, your body is also going to be adversely affected by that.

IMO, the best advice if you want to nurse but are experiencing stressful difficulty is to 1) seek expert help from a certified lactation consultant, 2) slug down a lot of fluids, 3) supplement a little when necessary to keep the baby (and Mom) from getting distraught, and 4) otherwise try to plan to stick it out and keep regularly letting baby try to nurse for at least 3 weeks before you consider going to giving mostly formula or giving up entirely. For most people, it takes that long to get really into the swing of it. (By trying regularly, I mean for at least 15 minutes every two hours while baby is awake, and be sure to try both sides.)

Personally, I don't think LLL is necessarily the best support idea for new moms who are really having a hard time, unless the leader is also an LC. LLL meetings are full of women who nurse with apparently no effort, and also tend to be very crunchy. To newcomers they appear to be ubermoms, and to a new mom who is really feeling stressed, just being in a room with them and their happy little slinging babies can feel like a reproach. LLL is great for just hanging out with other nursing Moms, and for learning how to NIP and where to buy the best clothes and things like that, for analyzing the finer points of poop , but for someone who is finding nursing really hard, most groups can be a little too perky on the topic, and sometimes too militant. An LC is a better choice initially, IMO.

I was an old hand at nursing after DS, and after all the hoops I had to jump through to get him established; I thought I had it down when DD was born. I was an idiot to think that. DD had a totally different style that was similar to that of a remora, and nursing her HURT like nobody's business for the best part of nearly 2 weeks, until the supply finally caught up to the little Principessa's demand level. I KNEW what I was doing, I KNEW how to make sure that her latch was perfect, I KNEW all about nursing-while-walking and NIP, and I was still fairly miserable dealing with one thing I had never dealt with the first time around: pain. (There were moments when I even considered just giving up, but the thought of the weight loss that I wouldn't get if I did that gave me the strength to hang in.)

 

[SydSim]

Check her diet, like previously mentioned. And not just dairy products - could be broccoli, salads, heck even gluten stuff!

Since the baby is only a few days old, her milk supply isn't completely established yet, and yes babies to want to stay at the breast constantly in the beginning (just told that to my patient last night who was in tears because the baby wouldn't be happy unless she was at the breast - eating or sleeping).

There's always going to be drama when mentioning breast and formula in the same sentence I am pro-breast, and also pro-mom. Sometimes they just need someone there to assure them that they are doing the right thing (even though everything seems so wrong) and to encourage them to persevere. But to be honest, I have seen a mom give up on breastfeeding completely because she was at her wits end, wanted to send the baby to the nursery to have one bottle of formula so that she could get a couple of uninterrupted hours of sleep, and was encouraged not to by the LC. I can't help wondering if things would have turned out differently if she had been able to get that sleep and recoup in the morning. We will never know


That being said, I don't encourage formula just because the baby wants to nurse constantly, but I do try to find the best solution to their particular problem at hand.

 

[wilderness01]

I'm going to give my 2 cents, as a layperson on the Dis, take it for what it's worth.

I agree that the baby is probably hungry due to her milk not coming in yet. She should be nursing 8 to 12 times in a 24 hour period to get enough production going. If she needs to supplement, which she sounds like she does, she should nurse first, then give 15 ml (1/2 ounce) after she is done nursing. She should limit the feeding, inclusive of giving the bottle, to 30 minutes. You do not want to burn more calories attempting to nurse/feed than calories taken in. It is normal for babies to lose up to 10% of their birth weight and then regain that weight within about 2 weeks of life. Also, because the baby is on day 3 of life, he should be having 3 wet diapers a day. Day 4, 4 wet diapers, etc. On day 6 and after, he should have at least 6 to 8 wet diapers and 1 to 2 stools. Although, some babies, do not have the stools. This is just a rule of thumb.

Breastfeeding is a learned art, and not natural. I would challenge anyone on this and tell this to women daily. It is a lot for a baby to learn to latch, then suck, and breath all at the same time while being on the breast. It can take at least 3 to 4 weeks, or more for some moms, for baby and mom to get in a good pattern of nursing.

There is a way to monitor how much he is getting from the breast and it is a scale. Many of the patients have to rent one until they have established a good pattern of breastfeeding.

She is only on day 3, there is no established pattern of breastfeeding so far. I agree, she needs to go see the lactation consultant for help. Baby is the best pump, but she should also be pumping for a few minutes (hospital grade pump) before she starts to nurse to help with let down once her milk comes in. She shouldn't despair if she doesn't "get a lot" of volume when she pumps. Again, baby is the best pump. If baby hasn't "nursed well" at the breast, then she should pump when she is done. It is VERY important she either nurses or pumps at least 8 to 12 times a day. She should also never be thirsty, rest and eat a good diet.

Milk usually comes in on day 4 to 5. Until then what she is producing, although rich in nutrients, is small in amount. I disagree with the person who said a bigger baby doesn't need a bigger volume. This is wrong information. We estimate ml/kg/day and go by that daily weight. A smaller baby needs smaller volumes, a bigger baby needs bigger volumes.

There is no way to "test" for colic. There is a way to test for reflux with a shallow study, but that isn't done this soon in a baby's life. I'm surprised that any dr would prescripe medicine for reflux if the dx wasn't made with a diagnostic test. There are other things that can be done, thickening for example, etc. Only if a baby has been tested and determined if they truly reflux, should they be put on medicine. Just my opinion, and I also had a reflux baby.

Good luck to her. She is probably overtired, I'm guessing this is a first baby, and everyone is trying to "help" with advice from family to friends. She needs to consult a lactation consultant and go for visits.

 

[RitaZ.]

Breastfeeding is a learned art, and not natural.

I so agree with this.

 

[ilovejack02]

I so agree with this.

No truer words were ever spoken !! I wish I could go back and do it all over again . If I knew then what I know now, I would have been more patient and tried harder. I made it to 3 months, but I wish I would have stuck the year out.

 

[HelenePA]

tomatoes made Ant insanely gassy and very unhappy...and they are my favorite food.. Maybe she'll notice a pattern like I did...