Help me understand why the other countries hate Israel?

[frndshpcptn]

LuvDuke, how should Israel have responded to the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers?

 

[Cool-Beans]

So how does this translate into a claim of ownership for a modern day Zionist? On what basis does someone in Chicago claim the right to a home in Jerusalem when they've neither lived or even travelled there? Doubly so when the home they claim is already occupied by an Arab family and has been for 3 generations? That's the crux of the problem.

This could go on and on but it's irrelevant. All the facts and figures mean nothing. As one who saw the politics and conflicts up close and personal, my conclusion is logic left the building a long time ago. You can endlessly debate the minutia of each side and ultimately, you walk shaking your head at the utter stupidity of it all.

As far as the current conflict, once again, we're watching a giant squash an ant with A-bomb. I wish someone would please explain to me why the proper response to terrorist missiles hitting northern Israel requires bombing an international airport at least twice and staging hundreds of retaliatory raids against people who had nothing to do with the attack.

Ah, the popular comment about the evil Jews coming into their houses and taking them over. It is an old and tired argument, used by arabs (Palestinians) who hate Jews.

Are the arabs uspset that they are getting bombed? Maybe they should not toss missiles at people who might fight back hard. When you attack someone, you don't get to cry that they fought back - even if they are better at it than you are.

 

[punkin]

That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

You know what they say about opinions, don't you?

 

[LuvDuke]

Ah, the popular comment about the evil Jews coming into their houses and taking them over. It is an old and tired argument, used by arabs (Palestinians) who hate Jews.

Are the arabs uspset that they are getting bombed? Maybe they should not toss missiles at people who might fight back hard. When you attack someone, you don't get to cry that they fought back - even if they are better at it than you are.

I detect a veiled accusation of anti-semitism, but I'll consider the source and ignore it. However it does point to a larger problem that criticism of Israel is somehow anti-semitic. If someone criticizes Mexico, does that mean that someone is anti-Hispanic? One makes about as much sense as the other.

OTOH, claim to the land IS a legitimate beef, whether the poster in question understands it or not. Other than biblical, what is the basis for an immigrant's claim to land someone has been living on for generations? It's an honest question without an easy answer.

 

[LuvDuke]

You know what they say about opinions, don't you?

Yup, and I've used that phrase many times myself.

 

[LuvDuke]

LuvDuke, how should Israel have responded to the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers?

They should've gone after the ones who did it and not used the opportunity as a jumping off point to settle an old scores. Again, IMO, this has nothing to do with Lebanon, but is an opportunity to provoke a confrontation with Iran. Just my opinion.

 

[dcentity2000]

The situation down there kinda reminds me of the relationship England and France used to have.

It didn't matter who started it all - heck, both sides claimed it was the other who started it - it just mattered that the enemy had struck out and that a response had to be made.



Rich::

 

[LuvDuke]

The other day, I heard on the radio that aparantly Israel has asked/ demanded that all Jews would come (back) to the country, to live happily together.

(OK, this is over simplified, but that was the general idea. I didn't listen with 100% of my attention to it, since I'm not Jewish)

Israel has always encouraged Jews worldwide to immigrate there. Some groups have more problems than others such as the Ethiopian Jews who who claim to have descended from Solomon and Sheba and who practice a kind of pre-rabbinical Judaism. The Falashas were truthfully a "lost tribe".

Regardless, every Jew has a home in Israel.

 

[LuvDuke]

The situation down there kinda reminds me of the relationship England and France used to have.

It didn't matter who started it all - heck, both sides claimed it was the other who started it - it just mattered that the enemy had struck out and that a response had to be made.



Rich::

When I lived there, I always felt as if each side did not really accept the reality of the other. It was almost as if each one believed the day would come when they'd wake up in the morning and the other one would be gone.

 

[momof2inPA]

There is a difference. Israel is not at war with Lebanon. If I follow some of the opinions expressed here, Israel is attacking Lebanon with the hopes that it will provoke a civil war with Hezbollah.

I don't believe Lebanon is the target at all. I think Israel wants to provoke a confrontation with Iran and 135,000 American soldiers are conveniently over the border.

That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Just Iran or Iran and Syria? God help our service men and women if the administration drags us into a conflict with Iran and/or Syria. If Iran became involved in the conflict, I wouldn't be surprised to see Russia or China step in on their side. Hmm. I guess it could escalate into WWIII. Could world politics be in any worse shape? How'd it get this bad?

Today, my lovely Senator, Rick Santorum, suggested that the acts by Hezbollah were like Canada attacking the U.S. He must not realize that Hezbollah isn't a country. He always toes the party line, so that must be the spin, but I hope the American public understands the difference between an extreme faction and a country.

As for my analogy between the Mexicans and Israelis, there are many who believe that Mexico has a legitimate claim to lands in Texas in California, but we know it's our land, regardless of past occupation and the ethnicity of the majority of the inhabitants. I see similarities.

 

[JimFitz]

Today, my lovely Senator, Rick Santorum, suggested that the acts by Hezbollah were like Canada attacking the U.S. He must not realize that Hezbollah isn't a country. He always toes the party line, so that must be the spin, but I hope the American public understands the difference between an extreme faction and a country.

Hezzbollah is a part of the Lebanese government. Lebanon is reponsible.

 

[MorganLeFey]

Hezzbollah is a part of the Lebanese government. Lebanon is reponsible.

Hezbollah was very smart to provide social sevices to the local population, and now holds a minority share of seats in the Lebanese Parliamnet. Hezbollah does not control the government. the acts of war are not sponsored by the Lebanese government, but by Hezbollah. but the legitimate government cannot control the acts of Hezbollah, thus making it the job of the Israelis to see to their own protection.

ditto with Hamas. they did such a good job of providing services that they got elected and no control the Palestinian parliament. and the world is supposed to deal with a terrorist organization as if it were a normal elected government.

 

[LuvDuke]

Hezbollah was very smart to provide social sevices to the local population, and now holds a minority share of seats in the Lebanese Parliamnet. Hezbollah does not control the government. the acts of war are not sponsored by the Lebanese government, but by Hezbollah. but the legitimate government cannot control the acts of Hezbollah, thus making it the job of the Israelis to see to their own protection.

ditto with Hamas. they did such a good job of providing services that they got elected and no control the Palestinian parliament. and the world is supposed to deal with a terrorist organization as if it were a normal elected government.

As we've heard many times in the last few years, democracy can be a messy process. I'm sure the powers-that-be didn't envision democratic elections resulting in Hamas or Hezbollah. Maybe a mistake's been made in believing all people want freedom the way we see it. Maybe instead of freedom, those in the Arab world want something completely different in the form of relief from hunger, povery, injustice, etc. They aren't making the leap that freedom will result in those things.

Getting back to the OP, who asked for answers to a very, very complicated issue, the issue isn't so much who's living in who's house or who's historic claim is better, but the basic issue is whether Israel should exist at all. Regardless of the words that have been mouthed in the last few years by the Arab world, until the answer to that question is an affirmative "yes" without reservations or private doubts, there won't be any peace. You cannot make peace with someone who's very existance you question. And that goes for both sides. In their heart of hearts, I believe a majority of Israelis see the Palestinians as troublesome cousins, deservedly so, and not a a legitimate people with legitimate claims.

Will that "right to exist" happen? It's happened twice already. Isreal and Egypt signed the Camp David Accords with Egypt in 1978 and the peace treaty with Jordan in 1994. The result is normalized relations and no shots being fired. So it isn't impossible, but IMO, given the events of the last few days, it's just this side of impossible.

 

[MorganLeFey]

Luvduke, I believe that most Israelis favor a two-state solution.

and frankly, most Palestinians are more concerned with questions like "can I earn a living?" and "will my family be safe?" that whether or not Israel exists as a nation.

tricky business, the two state soluton. the palestinians want political independence, but they're economically very dependent on Israel.

 

[HOGFAN]