Help! I need kitten litter-training advice!

[V for Vendetta]

My Grandfather's (93!!) cat had 6 kittens about 5 1/2 weeks ago. They're absolutely adorable- always playing & exploring in his house. Their Mom (a feral cat who has decided to become a house cat- getting pregnant 2 days before she was scheduled to be spayed!) is a great Mom- very diligent with bathing & feeding them.

Anyway... as they've already begun the weaning process (they still nurse, but they also eat dry kitten food & drink a little water) & are using the bathroom without their Mom's...uh... "help", I realized that it was time to introduce them to the litter box about 2 weeks ago.

The litter boxes are very shallow- very easy for the kittens to hop in & out of. I have been using the "world's best" brand litter- made out of corn cobs. I read that it was a better choice with kittens instead of clay. I put the kittens in the litter box frequently while I'm visiting with my Grandfather & go through the scratching motions while holding one of their front paws. One kitten started using the box the next day- he's been "trained" completely since then!

Unfortunately it was just that one kitten for the first week. The other kittens decided that it was a better idea to "go" on the carpet under the china cabinet & another piece of furniture. Gross. After more internet searching, I heard about this "litter attractant" herbal product that was apparently created for cats & kittens that had no interest in using the litter box. (Dr Elsey's Precious Cat Ultra Litter Attractant). After mixing that in another kitten has started to use the box.

Currently only 2 of the 6 kittens are box trained. I try to put them in the litter box when I notice them getting in to the "position", but that's easier said than done.

When I find "presents" on the floor, I place them into the boxes. I also scoop out the boxes daily. I've also duct-taped aluminum foil on the carpet where they'd been relieving themselves- that was another piece of advice I'd found on a webpage... apparently they're not supposed to like how aluminum foil sounds or feels? I'm sure that they'll be trained eventually, but it would be nice for them to follow in their sibling's footsteps & start using the box!

Are there any other strategies that anyone could suggest? Thank you!!!!!!!

 

[themarquis]

Hmm ... it's an interesting problem, because to my knowledge, kittens don't usually have to be "trained" to use the litter box. Most of the time, they figure it out right away and WANT to go in it rather than somewhere else (cats instinctively want to be able to bury their waste).

So it could just be that you need to give it a bit more time (they haven't totally figured it out yet) or it could be that there is some issue that is leading some of them to not want to use the litter box. I'd guess the latter. It strikes me that when there are lots of cats, they don't always want to all go in the same area. Sometimes you are encouraged to get an extra litter box or two -- so I would try that first. Get a couple more really low boxes and put them in different spots (you could even put one in the spot where they're going to the bathroom on the floor).

Also, how high is the box you have? It may seem easy for them to "hop" in and out of to you, but it may be scary or seem difficult for them. If there's a lot of litter in the boxes, they may feel like they're sinking into it or their feet feel unstable. I'd suggest using cardboard box tops or somehting like that where the rim is only like an inch or an inch and a half high and then filling with a teeny bit of litter (like 1/2 inch of litter) and try that. I've heard of people using something almost totally flat like a piece of cardboard or plastic or something, pouring a tiny bit of litter in it, and then encouraging the kittens to hang out in the litter. At first they'll play with the litter a lot and just push it all around or lie in it but after a while they figure out how to go in the bathroom in it and bury their wastes.

Another thing I'd recommend is getting a hormonal spray like Feliway. It is made of cat pheremones. You should spray it all over where they have gone to the bathroom on the floor, because it will help discourage them from going there more. I guess once they start peeing/pooping in a spot, then they all sort of want to "mark" it a bunch because of its smell. But if you get rid of the smell (use an enzyme cleaner that you get at a pet store) and then use Feliway, they won't want to go there anymore.

Best of luck!

 

[themarquis]

Oh, you may also want to try at least one other type of litter just in case they're not liking the feel of the stuff you got. It might be worth it even to just try some regular old clay litter. If you decide to get a couple more litter boxes like I mentioned earlier, try a clay one in addition to the corn cob ones. Some cats are weird about different types of litter ...

 

[Wishing on a star]

Yes, if you can sense any kind of smell to the litter, it may something that the kittens do not really like.

Also, here is the biggest tip.... Put their waste IN the litter in the box!!!

If they pee, soak it up on some tissue, and put the tissue in the box...
Put their poop in the box...

Then they'll get it!

 

[Imzadi]

Good work so far, OP! It sounds like you are being Octomom to the six kitties without all the extra help.

You need to to get a bottle of Nature's Miracle and saturate & clean the areas where the kitties already have gone.They may be re-attracted to keep going to the same areas becasue of residual pee odor. Nature's Miracle has an enzyme that breaks down urine smells so pets won't keep going back to the same areas.

Also, cats tend to go to the bathroom 5-10 minutes after eating. So this would be the time to watch and place them in the litter boxes. And yes, do make the scratching motions with them. Since their mom is feral and used to going anywhere, she didn't know to teach them to use the box.

Hmm ... it's an interesting problem, because to my knowledge, kittens don't usually have to be "trained" to use the litter box. Most of the time, they figure it out right away and WANT to go in it rather than somewhere else (cats instinctively want to be able to bury their waste).

Sorry, that's not necessarily true. I've known many kittens that needed to be taught how to use the box. My kitten just played with the litter at first and batted it around. I had to keep doing the scrathy motions a few times until a lightbulb went off.

I do agree that maybe more boxes are needed in various areas.

 

[Quacktatty]

I agree with the PP who said they may not like the litter. I'm not sure what the corn cob litter is like, but remember that cats like to dig and bury their poop. A friend of mine tried the "natural" litter and her kittens had a lot of problems getting it right. She changed to a traditional litter and the problems stopped immediately! It's worth a short to pick up some normal stuff...my guys like Arm & Hammer Multi-Cat.

 

[Cool-Beans]

I went through this last summer with a stray and her five flippin kittens.

Maybe MOST kittens know how to and prefer to use a litter box. If so, these five were dumb kittens (wouldn't surprise me.) I'd put them in there and make the scratchy-scratch with their paws, but they were just squirmy and didn't "get" it.

I got a shallow litter box. I thought that would be easier for the little cuties to jump in and out of...and it was. But what they did when they jumped in there was to do the scratchy-scratch thing to THROW ALL THE LITTER OUT OF THE BOX. They would then proceed to go poop on the bottom step of the basement steps. All of them. That's where they liked to do their business.

Shredding paper towel rolls and throwing litter out of the litter box - instant pros. Using the litter to poop - not so much.

I kept at it, but I really think they didn't do it until their mom made them. It went on for a few days, maybe a week.

I wish I could be more help, but I can't. I hope your kittens figure this out soon. Know that you aren't alone, though! Others have gone through it, too!!!!

Good luck!

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Another vote for changing the litter. Also I would confine them for awhile until the start really going in the litter.

I would always put the kitten in the litter and move the paws to dig. Usually instinct kicks right in.

 

[V for Vendetta]

The aluminum foil seems to be helping- one of the kittens that I had witnessed "eliminating" on the floor used the box! I wouldn't have ever imagined that I'd be so thrilled for a cat to use the bathroom in the box.

As far as the boxes are concerned, they are cardboard boxes with about an inch and a half rim- there's a liner in the bottom so the cardboard doesn't absorb pee- not too much litter- enough for them to dig/bury, but it isn't deep enough to cause a sinking feeling.

I hadn't thought about having more than 2 litter boxes- that's not a bad idea! I wish I could contain them a bit more but my Grandfather's wouldn't accommodate it. When I trained my first cat 13 years ago I confined her to the spare half-bathroom. My Grandfather's bathroom won't accommodate that w/o being a hazard to him. I wish his house had a better layout!

Imzadi, thank you for pointing out that their Mom probably doesn't realize that she needs to teach them to use the box. She has her own litterbox & does know how to use it but she's only been a housecat since December.

The only reason I'd started them w/ the corncob litter is that I kept reading on all the basic kitten-care webpages that you shouldn't use the clay because if they ingest any it could cause intestinal problems. They don't explore things with their mouth as much as they did last week- maybe there wouldn't be any dangers now.

I do put all the pieces of poop that I find into the boxes... hadn't thought about soaking up the pee w/ a tissue & putting that in the box- GREAT suggestion!

 

[themarquis]

Good work so far, OP! It sounds like you are being Octomom to the six kitties without all the extra help.

You need to to get a bottle of Nature's Miracle and saturate & clean the areas where the kitties already have gone.They may be re-attracted to keep going to the same areas becasue of residual pee odor. Nature's Miracle has an enzyme that breaks down urine smells so pets won't keep going back to the same areas.

Also, cats tend to go to the bathroom 5-10 minutes after eating. So this would be the time to watch and place them in the litter boxes. And yes, do make the scratching motions with them. Since their mom is feral and used to going anywhere, she didn't know to teach them to use the box.



Sorry, that's not necessarily true. I've known many kittens that needed to be taught how to use the box. My kitten just played with the litter at first and batted it around. I had to keep doing the scrathy motions a few times until a lightbulb went off.

I do agree that maybe more boxes are needed in various areas.

Oh yeah, you're right -- I just meant that they don't need to be "trained" in the way that dogs need to be "trained" -- it's mostly instinct, and they just need encouragement.

OP, it sounds like progress is being made! I had another thought for you, which is that since it's grandpa's cat and you're not over there all the time, maybe they are taking to it really slowly just because they're not getting really consistent encouragment to use the box. And the more they go outside the box, the more that behavior becomes self-reinforcing, KWIM? I don't know what you could do to solve it because you're not going to be able to be there constantly, but maybe you could be there more often (or take them to your house??). In any case it sounds like time will eventually solve the problem.

 

[V for Vendetta]

I'm there usually around the times that they eat & play. I've had a few health issues that I had to deal with that ended up in me needing to resign from my job last year, so I'm currently one of my Grandfather's caretakers (my Mother being the other one). I'm there in 2 hour increments throughout the day & when I'm not able to be, my Mother is. It definitely is far more difficult to not be able to have the consistency that I would like them to have... but their Mother, as wonderful a mom as she is, sometimes makes things difficult.

What I mean by that is that if I see one in the act and am lucky enough to be able to reach it, Momma Cat will block me where I can't get to it. It's not an aggression thing it's a "I NEED attention- you need to pet me first before you can pet my kitties." If I havent given her the amount of attention SHE wants then she doesn't want her kittens to have any attention either. I wonder if I rearranged the location- having access to multiple boxes in multiple location, but also put her (Momma Cat) litter box with all the others, maybe they would be able to see her go and learn from watching her.

I guess we'll see what things look like tomorrow. I'm still hoping that the aluminum foil will be effective They DO NOT like how it feels to walk on... most don't like it period... but I have one special guy (one of the trained ones) who likes to look at his reflection in the foil. He's a cutie.

Hope this made sense- my head fees kinda out of it.

 

[themarquis]

I'm there usually around the times that they eat & play. I've had a few health issues that I had to deal with that ended up in me needing to resign from my job last year, so I'm currently one of my Grandfather's caretakers (my Mother being the other one). I'm there in 2 hour increments throughout the day & when I'm not able to be, my Mother is. It definitely is far more difficult to not be able to have the consistency that I would like them to have... but their Mother, as wonderful a mom as she is, sometimes makes things difficult.

What I mean by that is that if I see one in the act and am lucky enough to be able to reach it, Momma Cat will block me where I can't get to it. It's not an aggression thing it's a "I NEED attention- you need to pet me first before you can pet my kitties." If I havent given her the amount of attention SHE wants then she doesn't want her kittens to have any attention either. I wonder if I rearranged the location- having access to multiple boxes in multiple location, but also put her (Momma Cat) litter box with all the others, maybe they would be able to see her go and learn from watching her.

I guess we'll see what things look like tomorrow. I'm still hoping that the aluminum foil will be effective They DO NOT like how it feels to walk on... most don't like it period... but I have one special guy (one of the trained ones) who likes to look at his reflection in the foil. He's a cutie.

Hope this made sense- my head fees kinda out of it.

lol, that totally makes sense

The more you say about the situation w/ momma cat and grandpa and all that, the more it sounds to me that they just need more time and consistency and they will eventually "get it". (you aren't always there, there is more than one person trying to "train" them, they have lots of chances to pee/poo in bad places and not get grabbed and put in the litter box in time, momma cat blocks you, etc. So it's not gonna be as fast a process as you wish it would be )

I agree with the other posters and you above about putting momma cat's box somewhere where the kittens can go in it, too. The trick would be making sure it is not too high a box (but not so low that momma cat won't go in it). I definitely think she could help with the process if she went in the same box as the babies.

 

[V for Vendetta]

So then would I still need separate boxes? or would it be better to just get one really large one?

As much as the Momma has to eat in order to nurse 6 kittens fairly often, the amount that's in her box is absolutely amazing. at least 3-4 pounds daily! (Hers is emptied twice a day, so about 2lbs each time.) I saw a gigantic one at the pet store- it looked like it might be a little higher (3.5 inches or so, i think.). It's double the width of Momma Cat's current box. If I do decide to combine it all, I know I'd just need to stick with what Momma's used to (clumping clay litter). Would I still need to get additional boxes?

I'm definitely going over to my Grandfather's house as soon as I wake up! I'm going to be quite interested in what the litter boxes look like... and what their former potty areas covered with aluminum foil look like (as in, did they continue to do their business there?)

I do think that my eagerness could be an issue regarding the level of my frustration. Human kids potty train at different times/ages, so it would make sense that some kittens might need a few more days of watching everyone else until they decide that that's what they want to do.

The cat I trained before was easy- we got her from a neighbor- people had just thrown a box filled with kittens into their yard. She was about 8 weeks old when we got her- maybe a little older. It was so simple to litter train her.

Looking back on that, I'm beginning to think that maybe I'm expecting too much of them at the moment. They still have a few more weeks to get the habit!

 

[browneyes106]

I have raised a lot of litters of kittens over the years. I have had kittens who litter train pretty easily and others that don't. One time my mom and I were raising a litter that couldn't get the idea of using the litter box. We had a large dog cage in the house so for two days. We would feed the kittens wet food and dry soft kitten food and after that we would put them in the cage with a litter box each time they used the litter box we released them until their next feedings. We did this for about two days and they got the hang of it. Some kittens fully don't get the idea until they are 6 or 7 weeks.

 

[V for Vendetta]

They seem to be continuing to make progress today. I wasn't able to go as early in the morning as I usually do- had to deal with a pharmaceutical company and my health insurance- fun times there,

Anyway- upon my arrival (about 2 hours later than usual) I was VERY pleased to find that there was only a teeny amount of "presents"- It seemed to only be enough to have come from one kitten! Hooray!!! I checked anywhere that they might have turned into a new bathroom area- there wasn't any evidence of that! More importantly, I emptied both of the litter boxes and found that there was far more to clean out today than yesterday!

Browneyes, thank you for mentioning that they might be 6/7 weeks old before they really "get it." Thank you also for suggesting the crate. If we continue to have problems I will definitely remember this! I have a large dog crate that I could use- it's about 2 1/2 feet wide, 3 1/2 feet long, & about 3 feet tall. I'm not quite sure that the kittens are large enough to be contained by it- I think their heads/bodies are small enough to fit through the spaces. When you put the kittens in a crate, do you put them all in together?

 

[browneyes106]

They seem to be continuing to make progress today. I wasn't able to go as early in the morning as I usually do- had to deal with a pharmaceutical company and my health insurance- fun times there,

Anyway- upon my arrival (about 2 hours later than usual) I was VERY pleased to find that there was only a teeny amount of "presents"- It seemed to only be enough to have come from one kitten! Hooray!!! I checked anywhere that they might have turned into a new bathroom area- there wasn't any evidence of that! More importantly, I emptied both of the litter boxes and found that there was far more to clean out today than yesterday!

Browneyes, thank you for mentioning that they might be 6/7 weeks old before they really "get it." Thank you also for suggesting the crate. If we continue to have problems I will definitely remember this! I have a large dog crate that I could use- it's about 2 1/2 feet wide, 3 1/2 feet long, & about 3 feet tall. I'm not quite sure that the kittens are large enough to be contained by it- I think their heads/bodies are small enough to fit through the spaces. When you put the kittens in a crate, do you put them all in together?

We had four kittens in the litter. The first day we all put all four in the cage together after their feedings but the four of them together in the cage sort of made a big mess. The next day we decide to split them into pairs and isolate one pair of kittens in one of our bedrooms while the pair ate and were placed in the cage. We rotated the pairs throughout the day. Maybe you could about cardboard or carpet remaints around the cage to sort of help contain them in the crate. Cut up pieces of cardboard that are least six inches high tape them around the crate. Maybe you could use the dog crate with two or three kittens at time and maybe monitor them in the crate.

 

[Imzadi]

I'm glad there is more progress today.

So then would I still need separate boxes? or would it be better to just get one really large one?

Yes, I think you still need extra boxes. Cats are strange & fussy. Here's a link to a thread about my own experiences where my (one) very ADULT cat seems to prefer to have an extra litter box. When I asked here on the DIS, apparently, it's not so unusual when you have multiple kitties.

How many litter boxes does your cat need?

 

[SundancePass]

First, you need at LEAST FOUR....4....litter boxes. Two is not enough for all the cats you have. Put the kitties in the box....if they jump out, put them back in and get clay litter...the clumping kind.

If you check with a vet, he/she will tell you that one litter box = 2 cats. If you dont' have enough boxes, the cats will "go" wherever they can.

Buy more boxes. Fill them up. Put the kitties in them....and enjoy them while they are young.

And yes, crate them all together.

 

[Imzadi]

Oh, about the clay litter, I've never read that the regular clay litter was bad for cats. I don't know about the newer clumping kind. But, the hazard of eating the litter that I read was dangerous are the litters with "crystals" in them. Yes, if they injest them, they are bad.

 

[V for Vendetta]

I'm so thankful for everyone's responses, ideas, & advice. I'm definitely the first one to admit that taking care of 6 newborn kittens is a new experience & that it's certainly not one that I'm well-versed in! My goal for these kittens is to have them as "perfect" as they can be when it's time for them to get new homes. They've been around people for weeks now- they're all going to be lap cats- they fight over who gets to be in my lap (or sitting in my Grandfather's lap). They're also adjusting to getting their feet manipulated (for claw trimming) and we've been working on not scratching/biting hands, though I'll admit that's a pretty big challenge so far!

I think I've found one reason the litter boxes they're using now aren't their favorites. They're lined! Since I have been using cardboard boxes, I was under the impression that something needed to prevent the urine from soaking into the cardboard- "wrapped" the boxes with litter liners- I mean, they're taped down. One of the potty-trained kittens was really fussing with the liner this evening- clawing at it, getting her claws stuck when she was trying to cover her poop, etc. She wasn't in pain, but she didn't seem happy. I removed the liners & will be replacing them with plastic litter boxes similar to the one that their Mom uses. I found a few that aren't too deep, especially if the snap on frame (the 2 inch band that goes around the top to prevent litter from flying out of the box- no clue what that technical term is) isn't attached.

I'm also going to rearrange the furniture at my Grandfather's house when either my Husband, Brother, or Father is there. All the furniture is solid wood & far too heavy for me to handle w/o hurting my back. Anyway- Momma Cat's litter box will be with all the others.

I'm so happy that they're continuing to make progress! Thanks again for all of your advice!!!!