Help.. DD trouble at school

[zoemurr]

DD is 9 and in 4th grade. She is a huge goodie-goodie, never been in trouble, adult pleasing kind of kid.

Until today.. I tried to go into her folder and she yelled and grabbed it from me, telling me that there was something private in there. She had a HUGE fit like never before, so I knew it had to be something good (or bad..) I asked her over and over what it was and she wouldn't tell me, so of course after she went to bed I looked through it. Here's what I found..

"Dear... (it's to her teacher, he made her write it)
I'm sorry for what I did. I shouldn't have done it. I don't know why I told M to lie. I will be a lot more careful in the future and it won't happen again. A better choice would have been to either not say anything, or to say "Sorry, I can't help you." I know it was wrong, and it wasn't honest or friendly. I told her to forge a signature (on her homework) but I don't remember at all why. I will be a lot more honest in the future. I think I was just joking around and didn't mean for her to do it."
Sincerely, R

Now we have to sign it and send it back in. I just feel like that is admitting that I think she was wrong. I don't think she made a good choice at all.. but doesn't this fall under "if someone told you to jump off a bridge"? The other kid got caught and told the teacher "R told me to do it". Wouldn't you be more angry at the kid who took the bad advice and then tried to pass the buck? Does this warrent missing recess and having your parents right a note? R also said this happened months ago, but the teacher just found out now.

She is being punished for not showing us right away. That is where I am most angry now.

Ugh..

HELP!!!

 

[FSUDisneyGirl]

You wrote "Now we have to sign it and send it back in. I just feel like that is admitting that I think she was wrong."

Do you not think she was wrong? If I was a teacher and a student told someone to forge a signature, and the parent did not think that was wrong, I would think that was a big problem.

You asked if we would be more angry at the kid who took the advice and tried to pass the buck...first off I wouldn't be angry, just disappointed in a lack of honesty from both students. I think who to be more angry at (or who loses which privileges) is for the teacher to decide. Does this warrant missing recess for a day? I think so. For a week? Probably not. Are you upset because the other student is not being punished at all, and all of the fault is being put on your daughter? In that case, I would definitely, contact the teacher about the situation.

I understand that you think the other child is at fault as well, and maybe more so...but that does not excuse your daughter. Do you have to sign her note, or write your own note? I think either is not out of the question...if you have to write a note, maybe the teacher just wants to know how you have dealt with the behavior at home and if you have any other concerns.

I hope you get this figured out...it seems like your daughter is a great student and this is out of the ordinary for her. I think the teacher means well. Hopefully you can just use this a learning situation and she can move on and have a great rest of the school year!

 

[zoemurr]

and if I caught a kid doing something bad and their answer was, "Well, he told me to do it.." then my answer would be something along the lines of, "You need to make your own decisions. You knew the advice was wrong and you chose to do it anyway?" This would be the answer to my own kids as well. One day when my son was about 4 he peed on the basement carpet 'cause his friend told him to. He got in a huge amount of trouble because he made the decision to do the stupid thing.. she didn't make him do anything.

I'm still very confused.. but they are getting the same punishments. I guess what I meant to say is I don't think the girls were "equally" wrong. She certainly gave bad/stupid advice, but she didn't do the lying. I guess what frustrates me is that they got the same talking to and same punishment. I think the other girl lying and then trying to pass it off on R is much worse.

I just have to sign the note. My DD said she was just kidding when she said she should forge it (apparently this girl was going around the room asking for advice), but who knows. I just know I would not be angry at one of their friends for giving them dishonest advice when I know they are smart enough to make their own decisions, reguardless of what others suggested.

We have never ever had any disipline problems before with her (that's my other kid..) So I'm kinda at a loss. Guess I'm trying to talk it out here so I don't call the teacher and say the wrong thing.

So yes.. I know she was wrong, and I think at this point she does too. I don't really want to sign it with no explanation, but I don't know what explanation to give? Just say that this was dealt with at home?

 

[mommytobug]

I am confused. You went in the folder without her knowing but you know you haveto sign and send back? First, I have a 3rd grader and I know how "private" those folders are! She tells me over and over. I found a paragraph she wrote about her daddy and how funny, athletic, etc he was. She said he made the best pancakes, pork chops and steak of anyone she knows. The last line she said he is really a better cook than my mom . I think so too, but he cooks once in a blue moon. She was so upset that I read it. So, trying to explain this age and how they think the silliest things are private. Now, I do think your dd was wrong and I applaud her letter she wrote. I try very hard to always look at both sides and I dont want to raise dd to be self centered. I think is more adults accepted their part in things, this world would ne much better. So, dont fret over this. If you make a big deal out of this, she will be less likely to come to you in the future with bigger things. This is not a big deal. So, explain how you went from not knowing and then to finding out you had to sign, I am just confused. This age is so hard, on us and them!

 

[zoemurr]

that if she did not tell me what was going on that I was going to look until I found out. I found it in the folder and we called her downstairs. (She was in bed..) She explained it to us and said that we had to sign it and send it back. She was "waiting for a good time to give it to us"??

 

[mommytobug]

Ok, I understand now. Well, I think I would focus on her decision making and call it a day. If she is like my dd who is so anal about not getting in trouble, she has learned a lesson and will move on. I too think she was "less" guilty but would still try to just look at her and how she will or will not benefit. If this was a pattern with the teacher, it would have shown by now anyway.


I have already shared this story with dd. I was in high school and went with friends to a teen dance. Well, everyone was drinking but me (that was always the case). We were called to the car because we supposedly were blocking someone in. When we got there, the police were waiting. It had been reported that there were beer cans in the floorboards. They scared us to death and told us we were all going to jail. I told them I had not drank anything and never did. The cop said, you are with them, you are guilty too. Boy, what a lesson to learn. I did not know I could be in trouble just through association. My point is that your dd now knows whether she makes th decision or is just someone on the sidelines, she can be held repsonsible. Again, this is an isolated incident. Try not to lose sleep over it.

 

[zoemurr]

she is like my dd who is so anal about not getting in trouble -yes.. this is her exactly..

Again, this is an isolated incident. Try not to lose sleep over it. [/QUOTE]
Thanks.

 

[Rylee]

Forget about what the "other kid" did and/or what type of punishment she/he receives... not your problem, not your concern.

You are being asked to sign it, so the teacher is sure you are aware of the incident. This is a GOOD thing... I always want to know what my kids are involved in, and obviously, if "this happened months ago" and you are just finding out about it... your daughter felt no need to discuss it with you.

I would focus on right and wrong. At 9, your daughter is probably not aware forging someone's signature is a big deal, (not on a homework paper, I know, but in the real world, it's illegal). I would talk to her about this, and about "always doing the right thing", in general. I wouldn't dwell on it or carry-on for a long time, but have a conversation about your expectations. I tell my kids, "If you do the right thing, you'll never have to anwser to anyone."

As for the school punishment, I'm not sure there is much you can do about it. If you think it's too harsh for your daughter's role in it, you should speak to the teacher, however, I would let her take her punishment at school, and just not punish her any further at home.

I do agree with you punishing her at home, for not coming to you and showing you the note sooner. It is important she knows she can come to you, and that it is your right to know what is going on, but also, it acts as a "safety net"... when children get into any kind of trouble, and try to handle it on their own... sometimes the "snowball effect" happens, and they find themselves in more trouble, than if they just came to you in the first place.

 

[jack hannah bananah]

I agree with much of what has been said. Don't make a big deal about it. She did something wrong (not as wrong as the other girl), but a little punishment is probably not a bad thing for 1 of 2 reasons.

1 - She is in 4th grade, many kids who are "goodie-goodies" start testing their boundaries. The teacher has just set one for her. You don't have to be the one to do something bad to get into trouble - encouraging others to do something bad is also worthy of punishment.

or

2 - She may not be the "goodie-goodie" you think she is. When I was younger my brother M got in trouble all the time. My brother D was the "goodie-goodie" always helping and pleasing the adults. When we became adults my mom found out that actually D was the one encouraging M to do all the things he got in trouble for. I am not saying this is the case, but you may want to take a close look at this. Even ask the teacher if she has any evidence of this happening before.

 

[sk!mom]

Wouldn't you be more angry at the kid who took the bad advice and then tried to pass the buck? Does this warrent missing recess and having your parents right a note?

\

I would not worry about the other child and what her punishment was, I would be concerned about helping my DD be a young lady with integrity and high standards. It sounds to me as if this teacher is on top of the situation and I'm sure the other child had consequences.

She missed recess OMG- how cruel and unusual. AND Had to write a note.

Seriously, I would support the teacher.

As a teacher, I am constantly amazed by parents who want to make excuses for their children's poor decisions and turn the attention to the teacher's perceived "over-reaction" And we wonder why we have so many irresponsible teens around?

 

[DevilDuckie]

\

I would not worry about the other child and what her punishment was, I would be concerned about helping my DD be a young lady with integrity and high standards. It sounds to me as if this teacher is on top of the situation and I'm sure the other child had consequences.

I agree with this. This is not about the other girl making a worse choice, it is about your DD making a bad one. Telling someone to lie is dishonest and a bad life choice. That it isn't the worst choice made in this scenario is irrelevant. Your DD was punished appropriately for her part in it and I am sure the primary offender was dealt with accordingly.

Think about the lasting repercussions as well. Do you really want to be the mother of the child who other kids are told to avoid because she's a bad influence? I would not want my son playing with someone who encouraged him to lie to me or his teachers. Nip this in the bud. It sounds like you have a really good kid who made a bad choice. Let her know that so she doesn't think that choice is okay in the future.

 

[TheDizMom]

OK so this has me kind of laughing because I did this when I was in high school on the advice of a friend. She told me she always forged her dad's signature because it was so bad the teacher couldn't tell the difference. I had gotten a bad mid-term notice ( something that had never happened before ) that had to be signed by a parent and returned to the teacher. I knew my parents would have a fit if they found out I was doing so bad, so I forged my dad's signature. As I was doing it I was saying to myself just take this to mom and have her sign it. Well I didn't, and sure enough I got caught, along with the other 4 kids I sat around and had gotten the notices too. My parents were of course called, but I never got punished by the school, just my parents in the form of a 2 hour lecture and 2 week grounding. The friend of course didn't suffer any penalty, not do I believe she should have. Sure she suggested it, but she didn't actually do anything wrong. I was the one who made the decision not her.

Now while I agree that your DD should be taught it is never a good idea to forge a signature for any reason what so ever, I hardly think suggesting someone else do it is grounds for major punishment. Should she have been spoken to? Yes. Should she be told you should never suggest someone do something you know is wrong? Probably, but at 9 the other kid was old enough to know better and know she was making the wrong decision. She was definitely a wimp to blame her mistake on your daughter. Hell if we'd all listened to what our friends suggested we do when we were kids we would have been in trouble regularly. I am a firm believer in do it one time and it was a mistake, do it a second time and now you're in trouble and should suffer the consequences. I would be more concerned about the fact that she knew it was something you needed to sign and send back to the teacher, and she was trying to keep it from you, then that she suggested someone forge their parents signature. I would make sure she knew that it's never OK to try and hide something like that, and I would make sure she wasn't thinking of trying to forge one of your signatures herself. I would say at this point though you think the punishment did not fit the crime, the up side is that your DD has probably learned a very valuable lesson.

 

[mommytobug]

\

I would not worry about the other child and what her punishment was, I would be concerned about helping my DD be a young lady with integrity and high standards. It sounds to me as if this teacher is on top of the situation and I'm sure the other child had consequences.

She missed recess OMG- how cruel and unusual. AND Had to write a note.

Seriously, I would support the teacher.

As a teacher, I am constantly amazed by parents who want to make excuses for their children's poor decisions and turn the attention to the teacher's perceived "over-reaction" And we wonder why we have so many irresponsible teens around?

While I know this is true in some cases, it is not true in all. I must say that I have to watch myself sometimes because I fear my dd getting the only child title. I keep my eyes WIDE open to both sides and sometimes it causes me to expect too much. I will share that last year I got a call from a friend whose daughter had witnessed my dd being yelled at while standing against the wall during recess. My dd was crying and this child was worried about her (this teacher had a reputation). My dd did not tell me so I kinda asked her. She told me the entire story and when it was all over and done she had again been a victim of a small group of "silent bullies" as I call them. The main bully had told my dd that everything would be OK IF she would ask their permission every day as to who she could play with. This teacher had my dd against the wall telling her how wonderful this "bully" was because she had her in class, blah blah. When all was said and done, the teacher was wrong and knew I was not backing down. So, while there are bad apples in every bunch of kids, and parents, there are also BAD apples in every bunch of teachers. I think the OP really saw after processing all of this that the punishment fit the crime. If had been my dd, I would have wanted her beahvior addresses as well.

While I

 

[Mouse House Mama]

I think there is more to the story here. I also don't think it is wrong to get in trouble for trying to get someone to do something that they know is wrong. In our house if that happens both kids get in trouble- especially the one who tries to convince the other to do the wrong thing. While I think you should make your own decisions and we hold each other accountable for them. I also think you need to be helpful of others and telling someone to do something wrong is not very helpful. Perhaps even though your child is a good child (and I believe most kids are) maybe she did a little bullying here and got caught. Maybe not. Overall I think your DD should have gotten in trouble as well. IMO it promotes an all for one atmosphere and teaches her to think of others and try to help even if it is a scary situation for her friend. JMHO.

ETA- oh- and not showing me the letter would have resulted in a harsher punishment than if they just came home and let me know what happened.

 

[Rylee]

ETA- oh- and not showing me the letter would have resulted in a harsher punishment than if they just came home and let me know what happened.

My mother used to say...

If you get into trouble, I'd better hear of it from you, first, because if I have to hear about it from someone else, you'll be in twice as much trouble.

The few times my brother and I got in trouble in school, we came right home and "tattled" on ourselves.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

My mother used to say...

If you get into trouble, I'd better hear of it from you, first, because if I have to hear about it from someone else, you'll be in twice as much trouble.

The few times my brother and I got in trouble in school, we came right home and "tattled" on ourselves.

We must have the same Mother!!!!

 

[wilderness01]

We must have the same Mother!!!!

I have that mother as well and now I AM that mother!

 

[*KeepMovingForward*]

I would simply sign the note and add that you thank her for bringing this situation to your attention and leave it at that. I think that was her only goal in having you sign the note anyway. How or if you deal with it is really not the teachers concern.