Have questions re: college tuition/loans for DD

[agnes!]

Our schools do not rank their graduating seniors, we don't even get percentages like "top 10%" or whatever.

agnes!

 

[golfgal]

You're right, in part. The poster would do well to keep all of the options open.

However, you're wrong in other ways. I teach English at a cc although I went to an excellent private, four-year school (so I know the difference). While the scenarios you outline here may happen to students (not learning life lessons at a cc, getting weak teachers), they are not guaranteed to happen. Many students come out of our cc and end up on scholarships to the state schools or, occasionally, to a private or out-of-state school. Students can certainly gain an excellent education and "grow up" while here (depending on their home situation). Likewise, many students go away to school and don't grow up at all! They waste money, party hard, and drop out--ending up back at our cc.

I know your intent to was encourage the poster to 'aim high' and I applaud that, but cc's are not the ghetto of education you make them seem to be.

I disagree that a CC student can live at home and learn the same life lessons that a child living away from home going to college can learn no matter how "independent" they are in CC they still have mom and dad down the hall.

Around here the CC system is not good. It is basically for students that can't get into a 4 year program. Even the teachers there will tell you that. It is certainly better then not going on to college at all but it is no where near the same. Like someone else said on another tread they are basically high schools with ash trays here. The CC instructors will also be the first ones to tell you that most of the credits won't transfer to most of the schools in the state so to use it for your general eds ends up costing you more and takes more time. That is just the way it is around here.

 

[Art 1]

I disagree that a CC student can live at home and learn the same life lessons that a child living away from home going to college can learn no matter how "independent" they are in CC they still have mom and dad down the hall.

Around here the CC system is not good. It is basically for students that can't get into a 4 year program. Even the teachers there will tell you that. It is certainly better then not going on to college at all but it is no where near the same. Like someone else said on another tread they are basically high schools with ash trays here. The CC instructors will also be the first ones to tell you that most of the credits won't transfer to most of the schools in the state so to use it for your general eds ends up costing you more and takes more time. That is just the way it is around here.

In Fla the CC's are very good. Once you get your 2 yr degree all Fla st schools have to accept you for admission. Fla state universities can be difficult to get into otherwise, most of them take well less than half of those who apply.

 

[LisaR]

I disagree that a CC student can live at home and learn the same life lessons that a child living away from home going to college can learn no matter how "independent" they are in CC they still have mom and dad down the hall.

Around here the CC system is not good. It is basically for students that can't get into a 4 year program. Even the teachers there will tell you that. It is certainly better then not going on to college at all but it is no where near the same. Like someone else said on another tread they are basically high schools with ash trays here. The CC instructors will also be the first ones to tell you that most of the credits won't transfer to most of the schools in the state so to use it for your general eds ends up costing you more and takes more time. That is just the way it is around here.

But the student should only be going to go to a community college for two years. That means they will delay leaving home until they are maybe 20. If they graduated HS at 17, that would make them 19 when they are heading off to a university. Are they honestly going to be worse off because they delayed that experience by 2 years? When they are 40, will there really be a significant difference between the way they live their life versus the kid that went away at 18?

As far as CC being inferior to a university, I think much of it has to do with the professor. My DD has three PhD's teaching her classes this semester at the CC. All three are excellent. As a university graduate, I can say that these teachers are at least on par with the instructors I had and two probably exceed most of my university professors. Lumping all CC colleges together is like lumping all high schools together. Where I live, and in the state I previously lived, the CC's have an agreement with the state universities and the credits transfer for all the core requirements. It may be different where you live but I think what you are seeing is not the norm. 20 some years ago that was the case but I know people in multiple states that have easily transferred all credits from a CC to a university.

 

[punkin]

Around here the CC system is not good. It is basically for students that can't get into a 4 year program. Even the teachers there will tell you that. It is certainly better then not going on to college at all but it is no where near the same. Like someone else said on another tread they are basically high schools with ash trays here. The CC instructors will also be the first ones to tell you that most of the credits won't transfer to most of the schools in the state so to use it for your general eds ends up costing you more and takes more time. That is just the way it is around here.

Our local CC is very good and their honors program is even better. I see nothing wrong with going there and then transferring to a 4 year school.

I had a friend when I was in High school who went to a CC honors program and transferred into Cornell after two years. He degree said "Cornell University" but her parents were only out two years of Cornell tuition. I thought that was pretty smart.

Now, it doesn't always work that way. My college would take almost no transfer credits from another school.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Our local CC is very good and their honors program is even better. I see nothing wrong with going there and then transferring to a 4 year school.

I had a friend when I was in High school who went to a CC honors program and transferred into Cornell after two years. He degree said "Cornell University" but her parents were only out two years of Cornell tuition. I thought that was pretty smart.

Now, it doesn't always work that way. My college would take almost no transfer credits from another school.

That is awesome. IN MO the CC do have a partnership with the Missouri University however the classes are limited to certain degrees and they are only for basic courses/Associates degrees. The selection of classes in our CC is mediocre. Now they are beefing it up with enrollment going up over the last few years, so improvement is on the horizon. However the rules at the universities are harsh right now, at least I think so.

Community college courses can only have transferable equivalents at the 1000 or 2000 level. At no time can a community college course be the equivalent of a University of Missouri-Columbia course of 3000 or greater.

If a 2000 level course title from a community college is similar to a 3000 level title on this campus, that course can be an elective in that department at the 2000 level. Individual schools and colleges can waive the requirement for a student to take a course with similar or same title on this campus, however there will be no direct transfer equivalency.

If a college or department wants to accept a course from a community college as an equivalency to a course numbered 3000 or greater, they need to give that course a new number of less than 3000.
Courses from a community college can account for six of the last 36 credits, but only for students who have general education or other 1000-2000 level courses remaining for their degree. (The University is not prohibited from accepting community college credit for juniors and seniors if it is at the 1000-2000 level.)

Students may transfer more than 64 credit hours for lower division courses from either Missouri associate degree-granting or baccalaureate degree-granting institutions. Any additional lower division course credits above 64 credit hours will be accepted in transfer if the credits are applicable to the baccalaureate degree or are prerequisites for an upper division course in the major, in accordance with the Missouri Coordinating Board’s Handbook.

http://registrar.missouri.edu/policies/transfer-credit.php

 

[golfgal]

One thing our community colleges do is team up with various universities and offer classes on-site--mostly in the summer-or online. You are still a student of the 4 year college but you can use the facilities at the CC to take your classes, use the library, etc. The CC doesn't try to pretend it takes the place of the 4 year colleges, it fits the niche of what it is, a place to get a 2 year degree.

If DS17 were to want to take a summer class in college instead of taking it on campus where he goes to school, he could take it via the internet at the CC, for example. A lot of adults do this to complete degrees.

 

[LisaR]

Community college courses can only have transferable equivalents at the 1000 or 2000 level. At no time can a community college course be the equivalent of a University of Missouri-Columbia course of 3000 or greater.

If a 2000 level course title from a community college is similar to a 3000 level title on this campus, that course can be an elective in that department at the 2000 level. Individual schools and colleges can waive the requirement for a student to take a course with similar or same title on this campus, however there will be no direct transfer equivalency.

If a college or department wants to accept a course from a community college as an equivalency to a course numbered 3000 or greater, they need to give that course a new number of less than 3000.
Courses from a community college can account for six of the last 36 credits, but only for students who have general education or other 1000-2000 level courses remaining for their degree. (The University is not prohibited from accepting community college credit for juniors and seniors if it is at the 1000-2000 level.)

Students may transfer more than 64 credit hours for lower division courses from either Missouri associate degree-granting or baccalaureate degree-granting institutions. Any additional lower division course credits above 64 credit hours will be accepted in transfer if the credits are applicable to the baccalaureate degree or are prerequisites for an upper division course in the major, in accordance with the Missouri Coordinating Board’s Handbook.




http://registrar.missouri.edu/policies/transfer-credit.php

I would think this is pretty standard. There isn't a single 3000 level or higher class that is required for an associates degree at our community college. The community college isn't meant to take the place of a 4 year university. I don't even see 3000 level courses offered at our community college and I looked at multiple programs that they offer (nursing, aerospace technology, computer programming, etc).

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I would think this is pretty standard. There isn't a single 3000 level or higher class that is required for an associates degree at our community college. The community college isn't meant to take the place of a 4 year university. I don't even see 3000 level courses offered at our community college and I looked at multiple programs that they offer (nursing, aerospace technology, computer programming, etc).

It is. If your kid is already past the CC level it makes no sense to go to a CC.

There is where the rub lies with kids that are past the reg. math for example. The freshman girls on dd's floor who are going for engineering walked into the upper math classes their freshman yr.

 

[agnes!]

This article popped up on my radar today:
http://www.walletpop.com/blog/2010/...ships-101-the-best-web-resou/?ncid=webmaildl6

Money College: Grants and Scholarships 101 -- the best Web resources

The subtitle on the AIM mail newsfeed was "3 tips for avoiding scammers".

agnes!

 

[christineann]

I just finished the (renewal) FAFSA for what is probably the last time

Just an FYI to those applying for scholarships - if your high school does not rank its students, please make sure your child's college knows that when you are applying for scholarships. We did not know to do that, and my daughter almost missed out. I called my daughter's college financial aid office, and I was told that her application had not been pulled because there was no class ranking. Fortunately, her application was reconsidered

 

[agnes!]

I just finished the (renewal) FAFSA for what is probably the last time

Just an FYI to those applying for scholarships - if your high school does not rank its students, please make sure your child's college knows that when you are applying for scholarships. We did not know to do that, and my daughter almost missed out. I called my daughter's college financial aid office, and I was told that her application had not been pulled because there was no class ranking. Fortunately, her application was reconsidered

Thank you so much for the heads-up. DD & I have an appt with her College/Career Center counselor...I'll make sure I ask her about that and see if there's any notation on the transcript about what information is not available. Shoot, like I said before our system doesn't put class ranking *OR* ranges (like the student is in the top 1% of the class or whatever) on transcripts.

agnes!

 

[allison443]

Thank you so much for the heads-up. DD & I have an appt with her College/Career Center counselor...I'll make sure I ask her about that and see if there's any notation on the transcript about what information is not available. Shoot, like I said before our system doesn't put class ranking *OR* ranges (like the student is in the top 1% of the class or whatever) on transcripts.

agnes!

Many high schools (I read like 40%) do not provide class rank. Many of them are very high-quality, competitive high schools. It should not hurt your daughter's application.

 

[georgina]

There are schools that offer $XXX for being in the top 10% of the class, and $YYY for top 20%, etc. Sometimes that information is included in the school profile that goes with the transcript, if it is not on the actual transcript sent. It is a good idea to find out!

 

[agnes!]

There are schools that offer $XXX for being in the top 10% of the class, and $YYY for top 20%, etc. Sometimes that information is included in the school profile that goes with the transcript, if it is not on the actual transcript sent. It is a good idea to find out!

I wish I could, but our local school system will not and does not provide that information, even though I am certain that people within the school system DO know it. I mean, it's an easy thing to sort the information... I'm sure that the administrators knows many things about our students that they don't *want* to release.

So we'll lose out on those possible "percentage" awards...oh well.

agnes!

 

[christineann]

It shouldn't hurt a student's application as long as the college knows that the particular high school doesn't rank. Our high school is very competitive, and 100% of the graduates attend college. I was told by the financial aid/scholarship office that they did not pull her application for scholarship weekend because no class rank was indicated (I guess they thought it was incomplete?). They pulled her file, took another look, and she received significant scholarship awards.

Please remember to note that if it applies to your high school

 

[MrsPete]

I disagree that a CC student can live at home and learn the same life lessons that a child living away from home going to college can learn no matter how "independent" they are in CC they still have mom and dad down the hall.

I agree somewhat with this statement, but I have to throw out two qualifiers:

1. Every option isn't available to every student. In an ideal world, it'd be great for every student to have the opportunity to go away to college and have those life-lessons in independence; however, for many students, that means taking out loans. When weighing those life-lessons against the burden of debt, many families will choose the less expensive community college.

2. Every student isn't ready for the independence of living away from home. I'll use my husband as an example: He wasn't a serious student in high school, didn't think he needed college . . . so his dad wisely allowed him to reap the rewards of his choices, and after two years of manual labor and small paychecks, he realized that college looked pretty good. But he wasn't ready for a four-year school. He says that if he hadn't gone to community college first, he never would've graduated; however, after earning that associate's degree, he was ready to step up to the university, which he did successfully.

Community colleges are the best route -- for the right student.

Many high schools (I read like 40%) do not provide class rank. Many of them are very high-quality, competitive high schools. It should not hurt your daughter's application.

I had no idea that everyone didn't "do" ranks.

 

[punkin]

I had no idea that everyone didn't "do" ranks.

Most of the most competitive schools do not rank.