Mr_Incr3dible
50 miles at 55!
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2021
- Messages
- 1,442
I have mentioned most of this elsewhere, but here it is all in one spot. If you find it useful, great; if not, thanks for reading. Hopefully someone finds something useful in here. YMMV. Some settling may occur during shipping.
The HARM (TM) training is the method I used to prepare for the 2022 Dopey challenge as well as other races. Below is my documentation of the method and my experience with it for anyone else who would like to use it. The name for my training is rather tongue-in-cheek and was made up in the midst of replying to a forum message, but it does work and is somewhat supported by threads on this forum about frequency versus distances.
Preface: I just turned 56, I’m 5’9” tall, weigh 204, and I need to lose at least ten more pounds. In short, no one looks at me and thinks “That guy is a distance runner.” I have a slightly deformed toe on one foot that requires a corn cushion to keep it from riding up on my big toe, and Morton’s nephropathy in my other foot. I also have to use an inhaler before strenuous exercise so that I can breathe better and not have a ton of phlegm that evening. When I started back to running and training for my first half (Disney MW 2009), I was having to take a walk break after only a quarter mile. My first marathon was part of the Goofy Challenge ten years ago, my second marathon was this past month as part of the Dopey. (FWIW, in between, I’ve twice been signed up for the MCM and life interfered with running in it. Just dang.)
2023 Update: I finally completed the MCM in 2023, followed shortly after by the 2024 Goofy Challenge at WDW. And FWIW, I'm running better and stronger than I have in years.
Target audience:
The method:
1. A three to four mile run 3x per week, usually with 1 day of rest in-between
2. In between the daily runs, do brisk walks, bicycle riding, swimming, or other cross training. Get in your 10,000 steps or the equivalent. I also do weights, usually the dumbbells sitting next to my desk while on non-video calls.
3. On the weekend, get in a longer run. Start with 4 miles and work your way up as time and your fitness allow. In my case, my longest weekend run was 6 miles, but up to ten miles would have been better.
4. Until you get to where you can run longer distances without walking, take a walk break every mile and walk 50 steps before resuming running. That is enough to let your muscles wick away some lactic acid without your body dropping out of “run mode”. During an actual race, those steps are taken as part of a water station and has the benefit of making it easier to drink some water without wearing/spilling most of it. As your level of fitness improves, decrease the number of walk breaks.
5. That’s it.
Update: After a half and a full where I ran the first half and dropped down to walking for nearly all the second half of the races, it led to switching from one muscle group (running) to a slightly different muscle group for the fast striding. The answer is to continue with intervals, even if the intervals are mostly walking. Credit to Herding_cats for picking out a landmark such as a road sign or the 6th light pole up ahead and running to that. It isn't a long run, but it is enough to change muscle groups. I'll be doing more of that in the parts of the race where I'm doing more walking than running.
Caveats:
1. This is what worked for me: a guy in average shape and who still needs to lose some weight, and only had so much time allocated for training. I also preferred not to have injury concerns.
2. If you want to be running faster than what I describe below, then a Dopeybadger plan is probably the way to go. I also like the Galloway plan and its run/walk intervals, but I didn’t like the 10+ mile weekend runs. So in many respects, this is a modified Galloway plan with shorter runs on the weekend.
Why this worked for me:
1. I like to do my runs after work and I typically have about an hour to go run running before it starts getting dark, getting cold, or needing to deal with dinner, depending on the time of year. Three to four miles fits into this amount of time. 2023 Update: as my fitness has improved, I've stretched my neighborhood runs to 5 and 5.5 miles when I'm feeling it. I need to do more of this.
2. On the weekend, I like to take the time to go to the greenway, which is much flatter than my neighborhood route and has a lot of boardwalk which is much better for my joints. My long runs were usually 5 miles or so. Any longer than that, and I have to cross a major highway, so between that and time, 5-6 miles was my longest training distance. If you can work your way up to 10 miles, I say go for it.
2023 update: The training is paying dividends, as my long greenway runs are up to 9 miles, with the last mile still being strong.
3. Recovery time is practically nil. One issue with the Galloway method, based on forum comments, is the recovery time after the long runs. For all but my longest runs, I’m recovered by the next day. I had one stretch of really good weather where I was feeling fairly spry and managed three straight days of 3.5 – 3.6 miles. The morning of the 4th day, I was starting to feel it in my legs, but otherwise, no issues.
4. No injuries. I have friends who train hard and run insanely fast, but they are also more prone training injuries. So far, this has not been an issue for me.
5. The mental aspect: Looking at the Dopey races, my thoughts are that the 5K is what I do daily, and the 10k is what I can do on the weekend, both with no major issues. The half is then two 10Ks separated by a break for pictures in the MK; for a non-Disney half, I tell myself it is just two 10Ks and that I can do a 10K. For the full marathon, for me it is going to be about 40% running and 60% walking with plenty of breaks for photos and hydration. My only two marathons have been at Disney, but for a non-Disney marathon, it will still be alternating running and walking and just keep counting down the miles.
6. I’ve gone from needing frequent walk breaks to being able to go 5 and 6 miles without one. As noted elsewhere, my walk breaks in the half and full marathon were in conjunction with hydration.
7. My goal was to complete the Dopey while having fun and taking a lot of photos. If I want to set a PR, I can do it a lot easier and cheaper closer to home.
Hydration – I don’t drink anything while running in the afternoon or on the weekend; I hydrate right before and after. During the run, I’m typically letting a Mentos candy melt in my cheek. I get about 3 miles per piece of candy. During the half for the Dopey, I grabbed a cup of water once or twice. I usually let the water stop also be a walk interval (very useful when dealing with stupid plastic cups). For the marathon, I grabbed Powerade and/or water at most of the stops. For a summer race with heat in the 80’s or 90’s, I’ll grab some water during a 10k, but otherwise no. In the course of reading about fueling, I learned that most of the fuels, other than the Maurtens, require water to digest them. So if I'm taking in a Gu, for instance, I make sure to do it at or near a water stop and to take a drink of water with it.
Fuel – I have traditionally used fuel only during a full marathon. After reading some of Dopeybadger’s posts on fuel, I now see where it would be beneficial for a half, and (I think) I consumed either energy beans or a honey chew during the WDW half, and I think it helped. For the marathon, I didn’t consume any fuel until after the Magic Kingdom. I know that I consumed the Honey Chews they were handing out around mile 14, and I consumed a packet of Goo back (I think) around mile 12. And I definitely grabbed a chocolate bar when they were handing them out in Hollywood Studios; I wish I had grabbed a second one because, well, chocolate.
2023 update: After a very bad half in the late summer, I realized that I need to pay more attention to fuel and pre-race carb loading, especially since my normal diet is low-carb. In short: do the pre-race carb loading for a half or a full, and take fuel with me and take in a packet appx every 4 miles. I have a mix of Glukose, Gu, and Maurtens, plus fig newtons and some Tailwind for sipping prior to race start. I employed this for the MCM and the 2024 Goofy and things went much better for it. Lesson learned: fuel is non-trivial for longer races and needs to be planned for. @DopeyBadger has a lot of excellent links and information on this subject. It's well worth reading.
The results:
1. Over the past two years, I’ve dropped 15-19 pounds and would probably have dropped ten more already if I were better about tracking what I eat and avoiding temptation.
2. As mentioned, my first marathon was for the Goofy over ten years ago. Not only was I younger, I also trained for it, and with slightly longer runs than I did this time. I’ve trained with the HARM(TM) plan for the last 12 months (more diligently since last summer) and I can say for sure that I finished better and recovered better from the Dopey races 18 days ago. I went into the parks after every race except the full and had no issues. At the end of the half I surprised myself with how energetic I was feeling and how little I had walked during the half (almost none). As for MW recovery, I was ready for a regular 3.5 mile run 5 days after the Dopey,
3. I’ve seen my pace drop during my training runs from around 12min/mile back in the heat of of August down to around a 10 min/mile on average. I say that with the caveat that my weekly runs go through a creek bottom and thus have a good 100’ hill going out and again on the way back. If I go to a flat course, my average drops below 10min/mile. On Halloween I ran a 10K and finished with a 9:25 pace, my best in years. I am now looking for a half to see how close to 2 hours I can get.
2023 update: I recently completed the Marine Corps Marathon and the 2024 Goofy Challenge in a span of about 10 weeks, both using these same training habits. After the Goofy, I was back to training runs in 4 days.
Other comments:
1. Some people will look at what I’ve written and say that I’m at the point where I should be pushing myself more and improving my times. I agree, and as I get more weight off and get faster, I’ll increase the length of my training runs accordingly. However, this has been working for me to this point.
2. That said, regardless of anything else, I will always be somewhat lung-limited, plus my DNA says that I’m not going to get overly skinny, nor am I going to push my training to where I’m running 8-minute miles (at least I say that at the moment) because I have other stuff I’d like to do and my joints are getting older.
HARM (Half-@ssed Running Method)
The HARM (TM) training is the method I used to prepare for the 2022 Dopey challenge as well as other races. Below is my documentation of the method and my experience with it for anyone else who would like to use it. The name for my training is rather tongue-in-cheek and was made up in the midst of replying to a forum message, but it does work and is somewhat supported by threads on this forum about frequency versus distances.
Preface: I just turned 56, I’m 5’9” tall, weigh 204, and I need to lose at least ten more pounds. In short, no one looks at me and thinks “That guy is a distance runner.” I have a slightly deformed toe on one foot that requires a corn cushion to keep it from riding up on my big toe, and Morton’s nephropathy in my other foot. I also have to use an inhaler before strenuous exercise so that I can breathe better and not have a ton of phlegm that evening. When I started back to running and training for my first half (Disney MW 2009), I was having to take a walk break after only a quarter mile. My first marathon was part of the Goofy Challenge ten years ago, my second marathon was this past month as part of the Dopey. (FWIW, in between, I’ve twice been signed up for the MCM and life interfered with running in it. Just dang.)
2023 Update: I finally completed the MCM in 2023, followed shortly after by the 2024 Goofy Challenge at WDW. And FWIW, I'm running better and stronger than I have in years.
Target audience:
- Anyone who is or has been wondering if they can complete a Dopey, a Goofy, or even a half (see my previous sentence).
- Anyone who is wondering if their training is enough or if their weekend runs were long enough
- Anyone not quite happy with their “Couch to desired-race-distance” training plan.
- Anyone who is getting to be my age and wants a slightly more laid back running plan.
The method:
1. A three to four mile run 3x per week, usually with 1 day of rest in-between
2. In between the daily runs, do brisk walks, bicycle riding, swimming, or other cross training. Get in your 10,000 steps or the equivalent. I also do weights, usually the dumbbells sitting next to my desk while on non-video calls.
3. On the weekend, get in a longer run. Start with 4 miles and work your way up as time and your fitness allow. In my case, my longest weekend run was 6 miles, but up to ten miles would have been better.
4. Until you get to where you can run longer distances without walking, take a walk break every mile and walk 50 steps before resuming running. That is enough to let your muscles wick away some lactic acid without your body dropping out of “run mode”. During an actual race, those steps are taken as part of a water station and has the benefit of making it easier to drink some water without wearing/spilling most of it. As your level of fitness improves, decrease the number of walk breaks.
5. That’s it.
Update: After a half and a full where I ran the first half and dropped down to walking for nearly all the second half of the races, it led to switching from one muscle group (running) to a slightly different muscle group for the fast striding. The answer is to continue with intervals, even if the intervals are mostly walking. Credit to Herding_cats for picking out a landmark such as a road sign or the 6th light pole up ahead and running to that. It isn't a long run, but it is enough to change muscle groups. I'll be doing more of that in the parts of the race where I'm doing more walking than running.
Caveats:
1. This is what worked for me: a guy in average shape and who still needs to lose some weight, and only had so much time allocated for training. I also preferred not to have injury concerns.
2. If you want to be running faster than what I describe below, then a Dopeybadger plan is probably the way to go. I also like the Galloway plan and its run/walk intervals, but I didn’t like the 10+ mile weekend runs. So in many respects, this is a modified Galloway plan with shorter runs on the weekend.
Why this worked for me:
1. I like to do my runs after work and I typically have about an hour to go run running before it starts getting dark, getting cold, or needing to deal with dinner, depending on the time of year. Three to four miles fits into this amount of time. 2023 Update: as my fitness has improved, I've stretched my neighborhood runs to 5 and 5.5 miles when I'm feeling it. I need to do more of this.
2. On the weekend, I like to take the time to go to the greenway, which is much flatter than my neighborhood route and has a lot of boardwalk which is much better for my joints. My long runs were usually 5 miles or so. Any longer than that, and I have to cross a major highway, so between that and time, 5-6 miles was my longest training distance. If you can work your way up to 10 miles, I say go for it.
2023 update: The training is paying dividends, as my long greenway runs are up to 9 miles, with the last mile still being strong.
3. Recovery time is practically nil. One issue with the Galloway method, based on forum comments, is the recovery time after the long runs. For all but my longest runs, I’m recovered by the next day. I had one stretch of really good weather where I was feeling fairly spry and managed three straight days of 3.5 – 3.6 miles. The morning of the 4th day, I was starting to feel it in my legs, but otherwise, no issues.
4. No injuries. I have friends who train hard and run insanely fast, but they are also more prone training injuries. So far, this has not been an issue for me.
5. The mental aspect: Looking at the Dopey races, my thoughts are that the 5K is what I do daily, and the 10k is what I can do on the weekend, both with no major issues. The half is then two 10Ks separated by a break for pictures in the MK; for a non-Disney half, I tell myself it is just two 10Ks and that I can do a 10K. For the full marathon, for me it is going to be about 40% running and 60% walking with plenty of breaks for photos and hydration. My only two marathons have been at Disney, but for a non-Disney marathon, it will still be alternating running and walking and just keep counting down the miles.
6. I’ve gone from needing frequent walk breaks to being able to go 5 and 6 miles without one. As noted elsewhere, my walk breaks in the half and full marathon were in conjunction with hydration.
7. My goal was to complete the Dopey while having fun and taking a lot of photos. If I want to set a PR, I can do it a lot easier and cheaper closer to home.
Hydration – I don’t drink anything while running in the afternoon or on the weekend; I hydrate right before and after. During the run, I’m typically letting a Mentos candy melt in my cheek. I get about 3 miles per piece of candy. During the half for the Dopey, I grabbed a cup of water once or twice. I usually let the water stop also be a walk interval (very useful when dealing with stupid plastic cups). For the marathon, I grabbed Powerade and/or water at most of the stops. For a summer race with heat in the 80’s or 90’s, I’ll grab some water during a 10k, but otherwise no. In the course of reading about fueling, I learned that most of the fuels, other than the Maurtens, require water to digest them. So if I'm taking in a Gu, for instance, I make sure to do it at or near a water stop and to take a drink of water with it.
Fuel – I have traditionally used fuel only during a full marathon. After reading some of Dopeybadger’s posts on fuel, I now see where it would be beneficial for a half, and (I think) I consumed either energy beans or a honey chew during the WDW half, and I think it helped. For the marathon, I didn’t consume any fuel until after the Magic Kingdom. I know that I consumed the Honey Chews they were handing out around mile 14, and I consumed a packet of Goo back (I think) around mile 12. And I definitely grabbed a chocolate bar when they were handing them out in Hollywood Studios; I wish I had grabbed a second one because, well, chocolate.
2023 update: After a very bad half in the late summer, I realized that I need to pay more attention to fuel and pre-race carb loading, especially since my normal diet is low-carb. In short: do the pre-race carb loading for a half or a full, and take fuel with me and take in a packet appx every 4 miles. I have a mix of Glukose, Gu, and Maurtens, plus fig newtons and some Tailwind for sipping prior to race start. I employed this for the MCM and the 2024 Goofy and things went much better for it. Lesson learned: fuel is non-trivial for longer races and needs to be planned for. @DopeyBadger has a lot of excellent links and information on this subject. It's well worth reading.
The results:
1. Over the past two years, I’ve dropped 15-19 pounds and would probably have dropped ten more already if I were better about tracking what I eat and avoiding temptation.
2. As mentioned, my first marathon was for the Goofy over ten years ago. Not only was I younger, I also trained for it, and with slightly longer runs than I did this time. I’ve trained with the HARM(TM) plan for the last 12 months (more diligently since last summer) and I can say for sure that I finished better and recovered better from the Dopey races 18 days ago. I went into the parks after every race except the full and had no issues. At the end of the half I surprised myself with how energetic I was feeling and how little I had walked during the half (almost none). As for MW recovery, I was ready for a regular 3.5 mile run 5 days after the Dopey,
3. I’ve seen my pace drop during my training runs from around 12min/mile back in the heat of of August down to around a 10 min/mile on average. I say that with the caveat that my weekly runs go through a creek bottom and thus have a good 100’ hill going out and again on the way back. If I go to a flat course, my average drops below 10min/mile. On Halloween I ran a 10K and finished with a 9:25 pace, my best in years. I am now looking for a half to see how close to 2 hours I can get.
2023 update: I recently completed the Marine Corps Marathon and the 2024 Goofy Challenge in a span of about 10 weeks, both using these same training habits. After the Goofy, I was back to training runs in 4 days.
Other comments:
1. Some people will look at what I’ve written and say that I’m at the point where I should be pushing myself more and improving my times. I agree, and as I get more weight off and get faster, I’ll increase the length of my training runs accordingly. However, this has been working for me to this point.
2. That said, regardless of anything else, I will always be somewhat lung-limited, plus my DNA says that I’m not going to get overly skinny, nor am I going to push my training to where I’m running 8-minute miles (at least I say that at the moment) because I have other stuff I’d like to do and my joints are getting older.
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