Handicap Transportation

[Tamplain]

We just got back yesterday from an 8 day stay in Disneyworld. We stayed at Pop this time since we figured it would be a bit more fun for our little girl than the Wilderness Lodge (nicer for mamma and daddy).

I really think Disney needs to rethink its approach to the handicap portion of its transportation since we saw quite a bit of abuse to the policy over our stay. I have no problem with the service being provided as my brother has had advanced Parkinsons for years and he is only 50 as well other members of my family so am no stranger to it.

Problem we had was that we took our turn and waited in line like many others to get on packed buses. Only on some occasions right as the bus pulls up a motorized scooters would pull up and we would not be able to load until they loaded up. Now this is fine by me. But I do have a problem with the fact that after they load up the scooters they then allow the entire party to board the bus without having to stand in line or even get into the line. This does not go for me. There is no reason that 15 (yes I counted) so called family members get to walk straight on the bus because 2 scooters went on. This happened many times over the week and while only a few occasions were the groups large most were in the range of 5-6 people along with the person on the scooter. Let me tell you it kind of ticks you off when you been stainding in the hot sun to get a spot on a bus only to not get on because half the bus is full before the regular line starts boarding.

We also saw many times where people were using the scooters to get handicap access to the buses when they in fact were not handicapped. We watched numerous people walking all over the resort and in the parks after seeing them many times using the scooters to get premium access to transportation and shows. Am sure some would say well you can do it yourself but sorry to me that is just wrong and low to abuse the system for the people who actually need it.

We just kept quiet and enjoyed our trip but seeing this really kind or irked me and the bus drivers could see it but didn't do anything to stop it.

 

[cm8]

We just got back yesterday from an 8 day stay in Disneyworld. We stayed at Pop this time since we figured it would be a bit more fun for our little girl than the Wilderness Lodge (nicer for mamma and daddy).

I really think Disney needs to rethink its approach to the handicap portion of its transportation since we saw quite a bit of abuse to the policy over our stay. I have no problem with the service being provided as my brother has had advanced Parkinsons for years and he is only 50 as well other members of my family so am no stranger to it.

Problem we had was that we took our turn and waited in line like many others to get on packed buses. Only on some occasions right as the bus pulls up a motorized scooters would pull up and we would not be able to load until they loaded up. Now this is fine by me. But I do have a problem with the fact that after they load up the scooters they then allow the entire party to board the bus without having to stand in line or even get into the line. This does not go for me. There is no reason that 15 (yes I counted) so called family members get to walk straight on the bus because 2 scooters went on. This happened many times over the week and while only a few occasions were the groups large most were in the range of 5-6 people along with the person on the scooter. Let me tell you it kind of ticks you off when you been stainding in the hot sun to get a spot on a bus only to not get on because half the bus is full before the regular line starts boarding.

We also saw many times where people were using the scooters to get handicap access to the buses when they in fact were not handicapped. We watched numerous people walking all over the resort and in the parks after seeing them many times using the scooters to get premium access to transportation and shows. Am sure some would say well you can do it yourself but sorry to me that is just wrong and low to abuse the system for the people who actually need it.

We just kept quiet and enjoyed our trip but seeing this really kind or irked me and the bus drivers could see it but didn't do anything to stop it.

I am sorry that you had that experience, however some people do leave the chairs and Ecvs for a brief moment too experience other things. I am not sure that you can really tell someone is faking by looking at them. Any how I understand that you were frustrated and I respect that. I dislike the fact that the bus drivers will not enforce the rules either, but unless someone speaks up they may not "care" that they are not being held accountable. Now I am not sure if they can get into trouble for enforcing/not enforcing, but I would guess that they just want to avoid making a scene and will try to the best of their ability to make it work for some. I am glad that outside of that your trip went well. Have a great morning!

 

[kaytieeldr]

But I do have a problem with the fact that after they load up the scooters they then allow the entire party to board the bus without having to stand in line or even get into the line. This does not go for me. There is no reason that 15 (yes I counted) so called family members get to walk straight on the bus because 2 scooters went on. This happened many times over the week and while only a few occasions were the groups large most were in the range of 5-6 people along with the person on the scooter.

Fifteen additional people between two wheelchair/ecv Guests is, granted, unreasonable and in fact violates Walt Disney World's own rules. More on that in a moment. Five additional people with each wheelchair/ecv Guest is perfectly valid when boarding buses, just as it is when accessing park attractions.

While I understand it seems unfair to Guests waiting in line that these parties 'get' to board buses first, even if they show up just as the bus arrives, wheelchair/ecv Guests board first for logistical purposes. When you think about it, it's not unreasonable that a certain number of members of their respective parties be allowed to ride the same bus as them. After all - have you ever seen a party waiting in line for the bus made to split up, with some being allowed to ride the current bus and some being forced to wait for another bus?

There's a lot more to the logistics, reasonableness, and ADA - but it's late and I don't feel like getting worked up right now.

Back to the "WDW's own policy" bit I mentioned earlier. Each Guest in a wheelchair or ECV is allowed to be accompanied by up to five members of their party (note: not necessarily family, simply travel companions, no birth/marital relationship required) when boarding the buses. IF YOU SEE THIS BEING VIOLATED: note the time, bus route, driver's name if possible, bus number, and any other identifying information. Bring it to the attention of YOUR resort's management face-to-face.

Also note, none of this applies when boarding the monorails, as ALL Guests wait in line and board in turn. Yes, there are specific cars with wider floor spaces for wheelchairs and ecvs, but these Guests don't get pulled out of line to board sooner.

We also saw many times where people were using the scooters to get handicap access to the buses when they in fact were not handicapped. We watched numerous people walking all over the resort and in the parks after seeing them many times using the scooters to get premium access to transportation and shows.

Not all handicaps are visible; simply because someone needs an ECV to traverse long distances - e.g. six to ten miles of park touring in a day - doesn't mean they're confined to wheeled mobility assistance full time. I just discovered this week that I can no longer (or at least not currently) go grocery shopping without using the electric carts due to back problems - but I can go to CVS, I can get around work...

Thirty to forty-five dollars a day is a pretty high premium to pay JUST to be able to board a bus ahead of other people; and what you consider 'premium' access to shows is generally in the LAST row.

 

[honugirl]

Wow. Um, OP, I hope that some of what you've just written doesn't come back to bite you in the rear sometime in the future... You never know when YOU will be the one being judged for having to use an ECV.

I use an ECV for long distances. I tire easily and have no stamina due to my rare diseases, but I can easily traverse Pop Century on foot since I generally pay for the Preferred Locations and request a room by the food court. Also when you see me walking at a resort, generally I am meandering along at a very slow pace. Last time I was there, a turtle passed me!

I park and walk in the parks because it's good for me to do some walking every day. I use the ECV for the long distances between each land and park it in the stroller area and walk to the rides unless I'm having a bad day, then I drive it everywhere.

I now have 8 scars across my belly from my battle and honestly, I'm not afraid to hike up my shirt and show them to you should you question the need for my ECV use. I'll even give you a crash course in how to use my injectibles should my electrolytes crash from too much exercise in the heat.

Have a magical day!

 

[goofy4tink]

The system is indeed, imperfect. There are times when I have had the exact same experience. Now, I wouldn't change places with those who boarded with the ECV bound person for all the tea in China...I spent an evening touring a park with someone in an ECV and my eyes were opened...entirely different view point.
But....it's going to be pretty hard to figure out a system where those with the ECV guest stand in the line and still get on the same bus. The bus driver has to load those ECVs first, then allow passengers on. So, if the ECV guest is loaded, whilst his/her family is in the line, but the bus gets too full to take them, so they have to wait for another bus, the group is now effectively split up.
I think that the ECV guest should be allowed up to 5 others to board with them and then take seats close by. Any others in the group have to get in line and take their chances. The ECV guest can always wait until their party gets to the front of the line and then those in line can step aside and wait for the next bus and be boarded first, with the ECV guest.

We need to realize there are many unseen disabilities. Just because someone looks 'normal' to you, doesn't mean they don't have the ECV need. Believe me, it's not as wonderful as it may look to those around the ECV user. It's a pain in the butt to move through crowds with, it's a hassle to get onto a bus correctly. The percentage of folks using ECVs when they really don't need to, is probably pretty small.

Let's not turn this into a nasty, mean spirited thread.

 

[Inkmahm]

We also saw many times where people were using the scooters to get handicap access to the buses when they in fact were not handicapped. We watched numerous people walking all over the resort and in the parks after seeing them many times using the scooters to get premium access to transportation and shows. Am sure some would say well you can do it yourself but sorry to me that is just wrong and low to abuse the system for the people who actually need it.

Wow. Have you really ever traveled with someone who needs a wheelchair or a scooter? It sure doesn't sound like you have or you wouldn't think of it as having any advantage at all. They are truly a PITA to deal with.

My mom needs either a scooter or a wheelchair if she is to have access to the parks at all. She can walk with a walker to do grocery shopping, etc. but she wouldn't even make it the distance from handicap parking to the entrance of the parks if she had to walk, much less walk all day with us in the parks. On two trips in 2000 and 2001 we rented scooters for her. She hated them because they were difficult to steer and so many people walked right in front of her that she was afraid she'd end up running over a child.

Her next trips with us after my dad died, we bought a transport wheelchair for her. The only time she uses it is on our trips to Florida. It is still a royal PITA to have to push her everywhere and to have to deal with the chair for rides. It takes much longer to get on and off rides with the chair in many cases than if you could just do the regular line all the way through. Advantage with a chair? What a joke.

On trips where it is just DH and me, we miss having family but we always have a sigh of relief that we don't have to deal with the chair on that trip.

In December, we are taking my mother-in-law with us and she won't be able to do the parks without a scooter, either. She has bad knees and walks with a cane (slowly) but no way will she make it without a scooter. I'm dreading that aspect of the trip.

 

[Tamplain]

Ah here we go with the bashing. Um perhaps you folks bashing should reread the post since you only focused in on what you wanted to. My brother is severly handicapped as well as another member of my family so I am well versed in these things.

Look I simply posted on what we saw and since I know what disabilities are much of what we saw was abuse plain and simple. I did not get into a long detailed email about it but if you would like specifics I could provide them.

Many of the people using the scooters, etc had legit reasons and was quite evident but sorry there were quite a few people abusing the system.My concern is not for me but for the people who actually need the systems. I am not so foolish and niether should you all to think that there are not many people out there that will not exploit a situation to benefit them if you know how.

As for the poster mentioning the cost being prohibative perhaps but I spoke with two familys who rented them (I did so because I was curious from things I saw) they did not want to walk and I would bet that many others do it as well.

 

[goofy4tink]

I also know whereof I speak. I have several friends who use scooters all the time while at WDW..and I spend time with them. And yes, I do realize that there is abuse of the scooters/ECVs. But, after over 30+ trips to WDW I just haven't seen what I consider to be 'a lot of abuse'. I think that I may run into a scooter/ECV being loaded onto my bus perhaps twice in each week long stay...if that.
There are times when it may 'look' like someone is abusing the right to use a scooter. But, I can't say for sure whether or not that is the case. And neither can anyone else. Now, if you overheard the scooter bound person saying 'Wow, this is so much better than walking around....I'm gonna keep doing this every trip. And you guys all get to come with me..no more waiting in lines for us. It is so worth the cost.'...well, then maybe there is abuse happening.
But I have to tell you....being in a scooter/ECV isn't getting you any special perks. The lines are just as long. There are maybe 3 or 4 attractions that will let you scoot (pardon the pun) to the front of the line. But even then, you may face a longish wait.

No one is reading just want they want to read. Every single time, 100% of the time, this subject comes up, the OP comes back and complains about people not knowing as much as they (the OP) know about the situation. We've all been there, we've all seen it happen. The vast majority of us just don't care to get all in a twist over assumed abuse of the scooter/ECVs.

A question for the OP. Let's say you and your family, with a scooter/ECV/Wheelchair or two included, get to the bus stop. Those in the ECVs (or whatever) go to the assigned spot for loading. What does the rest of the family do? Are you in the regular line, waiting with the rest of the guests who have no one using an ECV? Or are you standing with your ECV using relative? If you are in the line, with the rest of the guests, what happens if after your ECV bound relative is loaded but the bus fills up too much before you get on? Now you have to wait for the next bus.
Or, if you are standing there, waiting in the handicapped loading area, with your ECV bound relative, how do you all react when other guests stare at you with angry eyes because the whole family gets on first because of an ECV bound relative?
Where is the cutoff for the number of guests that can board with someone in a wheelchair or ECV? Not to mention the guests who have been left at the loading area, for several bus arrivals and departures, because the buses that came were not able to get them on board due to mechanical issues.

There is no good remedy. Unless Disney bus drivers have a cutoff for the number of guests that are allowed to board with the 'disabled' guest, and then they strictly adhere to it, things will not change. And I can just see the family of 7, who all want to board with Gramps in his wheelchair. But the cutoff number is 5, so 2 have to get in the line. Oh yeah..that's going to happen..NOT. That family is going to whine and complain..."Come on, it's only 2 addtl people, they shouldn't have to be split off from the rest of us. That's so not fair."

If I continue to see the attitude I'm starting to see here, the thread will be closed.

 

[Magicbus]

I don't have a horse in this race, actually I do. I load ECVs on the bus all the time. The number of people taking advantage of the system is so small that it's a non-issue in my opinion. But it does happen once in while and those are the cases that people notice. Maybe I'm over simplifying the issue, but in order to keep peace, what if you need to have one of the blue cards like the ones you need in order to park in the handicapped/disabled parking spots. Just flash it to the CMs. Is that a solution? Those that are disabled probably have the blue card already or can easily get one before coming to WDW. Just throwing it out there.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Actually, Magicbus, the blue cards (disabled parking placards) are valid ONLY for actual motor vehicle parking. They may or may not be 'easy to get', depending on the state/country laws, but not having one doesn't mean someone doesn't need the assistance of a wheelchair or ECV when touring Disney or other theme parks. The entire purpose of disabled parking is simply to get the eligible person out of the flow of traffic as quickly and safely as possible.

But, back to Tamplain: Will it make you feel any better that in the sixteen trips I've made to Walt Disney World, Disney Land Resort, SeaWorld, and Universal Studios (both coasts) in the last six years, since I've been using an ECV - I have had people accompany me on buses TWICE?

In each case, it was two people - one couple one EMH morning from Pop Century to Animal Kingdom, and one mother and daughter one afternoon from Downtown Disney to Old Key West. In fact, in the latter case, they waited in the regular line - granted, because it was short and it was obvious we'd all get on the same bus.

We solo travelers and Disney Guests with small parties should go a long way toward offsetting the occasional larger party boarding with a wheelchair/ecv Guest. Also note, at times some of those are tag-alongs, Guests who - with varying degrees of success - latch onto parties in the wheelchair line and board the bus with them.

 

[goofy4tink]

I don't have a horse in this race, actually I do. I load ECVs on the bus all the time. The number of people taking advantage of the system is so small that it's a non-issue in my opinion. But it does happen once in while and those are the cases that people notice. Maybe I'm over simplifying the issue, but in order to keep peace, what if you need to have one of the blue cards like the ones you need in order to park in the handicapped/disabled parking spots. Just flash it to the CMs. Is that a solution? Those that are disabled probably have the blue card already or can easily get one before coming to WDW. Just throwing it out there.

Not with the new HIPA (HEPA...whatever they are) laws regarding medical privacy issues. This is why it's so easy for people to get scooters in the first place. There's no one to police the usage.

 

[Inkmahm]

Ah here we go with the bashing. Um perhaps you folks bashing should reread the post since you only focused in on what you wanted to. My brother is severly handicapped as well as another member of my family so I am well versed in these things.

Look I simply posted on what we saw and since I know what disabilities are much of what we saw was abuse plain and simple.

I read that you had disabilities in your family and my question was if you ever actually traveled with those people. You still didn't answer that. Have you ever been to Disney with your handicapped family members? Do you perceive being in a wheelchair or a scooter as a benefit in any way when you travel with them (assuming that you have)?

"Since I know what disabilities are, much of what we saw was abuse plain and simple" is still just your opinion. You don't know by looking at someone if they have a need for a scooter or not. Making the assumption that they are abusing the use of scooters is rude.

 

[seashoreCM]

"Never criticize a man until you've walked a mile in his moccasins."

Do able bodied people really rent a scooter for the purpose of getting on a bus or a ride more quickly?

Maybe anyone who has misgivings for someone else in a scooter should himself rent a scooter for an entire day and remain seated on it at all times (except in the bathroom or on a ride requiring transfer out of the scooter). Then he will appreciate the difficulties associated with maneuvering the scooter particularly by someone who is not as able bodied to begin with.

 

[Tamplain]

My relatives have had no urge to go to Disney. My brother refuses all efforts to go into a scooter or chair and is currently falling on his face numerous times during the day while hobling around. Its a pride thing for him. He refuses to go anyplace for that matter cause he doesn't want to be seen on a scooter or wheel chair.

Please stop telling me I don't know what I saw. Did any of you see what my family saw, no, so stop chirping in with your bitter selfs.

When I see a boy walking all over the resort and in the park then suddenly need a chair to ride the bus is not a handicap. When I see a teenage girl hop out of a chair and run, jump, climb every inch of the Honey I shrunk the kids playground is not a handicap but yet see her later being pushed around different functions and then again running all over certain sections of the park. When I see a woman use a scooter to get on a bus numerous times yet see this same woman walking all over pop is this a handcap. When I am chatting with people while waiting for little one to see tinkerbell and they tell me they rented scooters because some family members didn't feel like walking the park is not a handicap.



I did not go looking for these things they just occured during our stay and mentioned them because if just out of chance we saw this then possibly the chance is that its compounded greatly with all the people who visit the park over all the year. Perhaps you all don't see it because you don't notice things or you choose not to notice things but can't say.

We were irked by the fact that on some occasions we had to miss buses due to large groups boarding with the scooters and we saw some abuses of the handicap system. You all wish to get all uppity about it. Well fine I am out of this and you know what in 5 years or however when the rental scooters, etc become an issue because everyone is using them and then Disney does have to do something about some of you folks will be the first one's to cluck about "Oh my goodness these people are abusing our system" think back at that time about the people like me who cared to protect your systems but you chose to bash on.

 

[seashoreCM]

. My brother refuses all efforts to go into a scooter or chair and is currently falling on his face numerous times during the day while hobling around.

We were irked by the fact that on some occasions we had to miss buses due to large groups boarding with the scooters .

Isn't it more embarrassing to fall on your face as opposed to be in a wheelchair?

If other people had to wait for the next bus, this is when people start to feel that splitting up a large group is the lesser of evils. Now even that could be solved by radioing for another bus to come well in advance of the normal 20 minute headway.
http://railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=58777&start=285

 

[honugirl]

Hey Tamplain, when you come on here and start the 999,000 thread that bashes ECV users, then yeah, some of us are going to get pretty dang heated. We've heard it all. From, oh, but I didn't mean YOU (i.e. those who actually have to use one) I meant the others, to maybe they should have a whole other bus system for handicapped people. It's always some huge number of people, ranging from 10-20 that board with the ECV. How many times on your vacation did 15 people board the bus all at the same time? I can guarantee that it wasn't all the time. I'm either a single or with 1 other person. I've never seen more than maybe 4 or 5 including the wheeled traveler in all the times I've been there.

Do some people abuse the use of a mobility assistance device? Yes. They do. Is it as many as you think? Not even close. It's a pain in the rear to use one. I actually see less of the parks than when I could walk. Everything takes extra time.

 

[kaytieeldr]

When I see a boy walking all over the resort and in the park then suddenly need a chair to ride the bus is not a handicap. When I see a teenage girl hop out of a chair and run, jump, climb every inch of the Honey I shrunk the kids playground is not a handicap but yet see her later being pushed around different functions and then again running all over certain sections of the park. When I see a woman use a scooter to get on a bus numerous times yet see this same woman walking all over pop is this a handcap.

It is too bad that these Guests inconvenienced you by using wheelchairs or ECVs part of the time and their feet other times.

It is also too bad you apparently spent so much of your vacation concentrating on what specific other Guests were doing, instead of simply enjoying the parks and attractions and spending time with your family on vacation.

How much time did you spend watching that boy walk all over the resort, and then how much time did you spend watching him use a wheelchair to board buses?

How long did you stand and watch that teenage girl run/jump/play all over every inch of the Honey I Shrunk the Kids playground, followed by how much/how many times did you see her being pushed around different functions then how much more time did you devote to seeing her running all over certain sections of the park?

How many times, exactly, did you see that same woman board buses with an ECV (and by the way, how else did you expect it to get anywhere?) and how much of your at-resort time did you later spend watching her walking all over Pop Century - remembering that the walking distances at Pop are NOTHING compared to a typical day at a theme park and if a Guest who uses an ECV to tour a park feels they can get around a resort on foot, good for them?

You say you were not looking for these things, yet you seem to happen to see or focus on the same few people frequently.

Perhaps you all don't see it because you don't notice things

That's right. I don't notice things that don't concern me. I don't judge who does and doesn't have a disability. Not my business. My business is ME.

As I pointed out above, and you seem to have ignored - or not noticed? - MOST of the time, wheelchair/ecv Guests are accompanied by far FEWER than the five Guests allowed according to Disney rules. But you don't 'see' that because it doesn't inconvenience you.

And as I said above, disabilities aren't always visible. I can shop at CVS on foot; I can get around work (to/from my desk and the restroom). I can't go grocery shopping without an electric cart any longer. So if you see me in CVS, then you see me across the parking lot in the supermarket, well, I must be faking - no?

Please stop telling me I don't know what I saw. Did any of you see what my family saw, no, so stop chirping in with your bitter selfs.

With advance respect to the board Moderators, I see only one bitter poster in this thread.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Isn't it more embarrassing to fall on your face as opposed to be in a wheelchair?

One would think...

 

[kaytieeldr]

I'm either a single or with 1 other person. I've never seen more than maybe 4 or 5 including the wheeled traveler in all the times I've been there.

I would like to see the OP's response to this. As I stated earlier, in sixteen trips over the last six years, I have boarded buses accompanied by anyone on only two occasions - and one of those times, my 'party' waited in the regular line. So, really, ONE time I had anyone board through the rear door with me - two people. That's GOT to offset SOME of the Guests who board with an extra person or two.

For the record, two wheelchair Guests boarding with fifteen party members (I still don't get the OP's sobriquet "so-called" family members, because we all know one can be accompanied by non-relatives, i.e. friends traveling together) were only over WDW's allowance by five, total.

 

[skiingfast]

Isn't it more embarrassing to fall on your face as opposed to be in a wheelchair?
]

Two teams play baseball, the fans watch. One team wins, the other looses. But the fans who chose to quite playing and only watch are the ones who failed.

What you said is horribly insensitive to the person trying to maintain thier standard of life.