Half the street shuttered – Now that’s MAGIC!!

[KNWVIKING]

"I LOVE my DH - but there are some little quirks he has that I really dislike."

But do you nag him to death over those little quirks, or just realize that is who is. And maybe,just maybe, you have a few quirks too ?

 

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by KNWVIKING

I didn't say why there wasn't good manpower. I agree,Disney's past lay-offs have cost them a great asset- qualified,dedicated,enthusiastic workers. These people are working for Gaylord Palms,Seaworld and several other top-notch places.


Explain "Blow the whistle" .... I don't get it.

So much for the Bad economy nice to hear someone admit that even though Disney is having problems and laying off people that other tourist attractions in the area have the abilty to hire those people.


Blow the whistle- Poster that come here to dive bomb and "pixie dust the place" from time to time. You will usally find these posters on the Community board. They seem to come in droves

 

[C.Ann]

Originally posted by KNWVIKING
"I LOVE my DH - but there are some little quirks he has that I really dislike."

But do you nag him to death over those little quirks, or just realize that is who is. And maybe,just maybe, you have a few quirks too ?

------------------------------------------------

My husband doesn't charge me the fees that Disney does to "have to put up with little quirks" - nor do I charge him to put up with mine..

And sadly, I don't see Disney's quirks as being little.. They're BIG - and getting much, much bigger...

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Well!! How we digress!! Don’t ya just love it!!

Anyway, I have some more info. Lewisc, who copied a Screamscape item is EXACTLY correct!! Let’s rerun it just to make sure we all understand it.

The latest rumors from CMs claim that something really wild is afoot for the Merchandise shops. The following information is only about the shops in Liberty Square, Adventureland and Frontierland. Starting June 15th until at least October 1st (end of the Disney fiscal year) all shops other than Pirates Bazaar, Big Al’s & Splash Photo will not open until 11am and will close early at 6:30pm regardless of what time the park closes.

So Main Street is safe (for the moment). But I thought this bit was especially interesting:

I’ve heard rumors coming down the pipe (mostly from Disneyland) claiming that Jay Rasulo was going to demand some major budget cuts from the Merchandise department... something that would make former bossman Paul Pressler roll in his grave. (If he were dead that is... he’s just moved on to The Gap, though there are many who will debate the difference.)

Well, not quite true. At least for WDW. It seems, according to my source, that these cuts have already been demanded. Hence, the ‘new & improved’ hours. So folks as The Who so aptly said:

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss



Now to the tangent this thread has taken:

KNWVIKING

Every time Disney does anything, it gets ripped to shreads. Spinner ride addition-cheap. EE- not a family ride.PG-13 movie-blasphamy. M:S- whatever it cost, it wasn't enough, plus Disney had to get HP to build it. No matter what the topic, it has to get a negative view.

Tell me. Is there anything positive you see in those you mentioned?

Tell me. Is there ANYTHING within the past several years that can really be viewed as ‘positive’.

Come on,WDW is closing stores that will suck cash out of your pocket.That's BAD ????

That’s bad!!!??? My friend, that's TERRIBLE!!! All those shops and all those eateries are part of the SHOW! The experience. The 'SHOW experience' that Walt envisioned.

Don’t believe me? Check it out with Walt. Way back in the day an area manager shut down a small fast food place a couple hours early (I think it was the place in Adventureland near the Tiki Birds, but I’m not sure). Anyway, Walt ambled by and asked why it was closed. The manager said that for weeks no one EVER came to the stand after a certain time. So, to save a bit of money he let the staff go and closed the place. Walt looked around and said, “Open it again. It’s a bad show to have things closed when there are guests present.”

Now do you ‘Get It’?

 

[KNWVIKING]

Well, let me try.

Over in Adventure land there was this area of asphault, nothing on it, just there. Now there is a cute,simple spinner ride. Always seems to have a line,seems popular enough. I've riden it a couple times,actually prefer it to that other "classic" spinner named Dumbo. This was a simple addition to Adventureland. I see that as a positive.

EE: Everybody agrees AK needs more. EE is a big more. I won't start the EE debate again, but I see EE as a positive.

M:S: Let's see, Disney got someone else to build & pay for an E ticket ride that from the reviews I've been reading sounds like a pretty awesome ride. I see a positve there.

PG-13: Not quite in the same catagory as the above three items in terms of positive/negative but to condeme an unseen movie and Disney based on a PG-13,(especially after reading D-R's and AV's posts on the topic) smacks of people looking for anything they can hang a negative spin on.


"Tell me. Is there ANYTHING within the past several years that can really be viewed as ‘positive’."

Well, my first trip to WDW was '95. Despite what the majority opinion is on this board, I truely enjoy AK and with the addition of EE is iceing on the cake for me.

When did Fantasmic start ? I don't know,but I don't think it's that old a show.

I think Illuminations is an awesome show as was the millenium parade.

As a DVC member, I greatly enjoy the addition of VWL and BCV.

When did Toontown and BB open, I don't recall them on my '95 or '97 trips ? If they were there...nevermind.

TT is fairly new,but it may not qualify depending on your definition of "past several years".


"That’s bad!!!??? My friend, that's TERRIBLE!!! All those shops and all those eateries are part of the SHOW! The experience. The 'SHOW experience' that Walt envisioned."

A friend of mine was at MK back in '74-'75, some high school senior trip. He says that back then all the "show" had to offer was a couple hotdog stands.

I'm not saying the closings are a good thing. Hopemax posted what I'll assume is a factual post about a similar occurance in DL. Because of a lack of funds, they choose to close the shops to reduce payroll rather then rides based on the valid logic that guests were paying admission to go on rides,not go shopping. If MK is in the same situation now, isn't closing some shops at six a better option then shutting down rides or closing the entire park early ?

 

[hopemax]

Perhaps, we better find out if my guess is even accurate. AV, Scoop, anyone?

 

[manning]

Now we know where ex-airline executives go to work at.

 

[laceemouse]

I'm no accountant folks, but someone explain to me how a shop which charges out the ying-yang for snacks and stuff can possibly NOT bring in enough cash to pay a couple of CM's who barely make more than minimum wage??? Something just does not add up here to me. I agree with Walt, while I don't go to WDW to shop, seeing shops closed would just not look good at all!!! I usually have my WDW rose-colored glasses on most of the time, but shop closings STINK!!!!

 

[KNWVIKING]

"but someone explain to me how a shop which charges out the ying-yang for snacks and stuff can possibly NOT bring in enough cash to pay a couple of CM's who barely make more than minimum wage???"

I don't think it's a matter of the stores not covering the employees wages, I think MK is just shorthanded. It seems to me they are moving store CM's out to the rides.

 

[airlarry!]

KNWVIKING:

Let me see if I can summarize your points here:

1. The Dead Guy used to have a park filled with Hot Dog Stands.

2. Closing the stores only means we don't have to buy plush.

3. Car 3'ers hate to read trip reports where people have fun.

I am not sure how to say this, but you can't be more wrong. In fact, other than that Walt is no longer alive, I can't say that I agree with a single thing you've said here.

I've been to WDW every five years basically since 1972, and there has always been more than hot dog stands at the parks. Your buddy is dead wrong.

There are not many of us here who adore mountains of plush filling every corner of the world, true, but there are many of us here who zig when others zag. That means we like to shop early in the day, even at lunch time, to stay away from the crowds, and then while they tour the shops near closing time, we're sneaking that last ride on Pirates. This bone-headed decision (which IMO is clearly budgetarily driven) means MORE crowds throughout the day clogging up the stores and walkways. Ugh.

On your last point, I wonder aloud how long you've been on this board. EVERY year we wait with baited breath for the various posters...especially Car 3 posters....who give us their State of the World addresses, beginning with the King, Lord Baron. His posts have always been filled with pixie dust and magic and wonderful vacations...although this year's was a little bit rougher than usual. No one bumped him down, no one ridiculed him, in fact, most people enjoyed how he was able to enjoy his vacation despite the cut-backs...something about wonderful CMs, great shows, and the still palpable sense that some in the company believe in Walt's philosophies.

I'm sorry M. Viking, but I just don't agree with you. We may be negative on the future of WDW, but that doesn't mean that we don't love this Company and its history and its parks any less than you do.

 

[C.Ann]

Originally posted by KNWVIKING
[BI don't think it's a matter of the stores not covering the employees wages, I think MK is just shorthanded. It seems to me they are moving store CM's out to the rides. [/B]

-----------------------

And WHY are they so short-handed? We had a very popular large department store in our area that people used to love to shop in.. Had really great bargains.. But greed set in and in order to beef up their financial worth, they cut way back on their help - even during the busiest season.. Customers became disgruntled -customer service was sorely lacking - and no one wanted to stand in the one line that was open for a half-hour to pay for a $5 item.. Sales slacked off dramatically..

They went out of business..

Disney doesn't HAVE to be shorthanded - they CHOOSE to be - and the paying customers are made to suffer because of it..

What Disney fails to see is that ultimately THEY will suffer because of it as well.. They have a bad habit of doing things that come back to bite them - and I don't think this latest brain storm is going to be any different..

Oh - and just out of curiosity.. How wonderful would you feel about Disney if they did the reverse - closed RIDES so the SHOPS and RESTAURANTS could stay open later? I kind of get the feeling from your posts that absolutely ANYTHING Disney does (or will do in the future) is A-okay with you.. Have you no bottom line at all?

 

[Another Voice]

"..the car 3-4's are by far the most vocal on this board"

Because thinking only magical thoughts didn't keep the Disney Stores open and all those thousand of Disney Story cast members employed.

Because simply accepting all the quirks and things that happened did not cause all those millions of missing guests to suddenly show up at California Adventure or to book rooms at the quickly mothballed Pop Century Resort.

Because saying "well, the kids might like it anyway" isn't going to put another quality animated movie on the screen that the public will rush to see.

Because the vast majority of the paying public are not pin-trading DVC memembers who couldn't possible think of any place else to go; they are hard working people who have to save up lots of money - it's they that spend the billions that keeps WDW going, not the few annual passholders.

Because living in a world where only "the right kind of thinking" is permitted and running away from reality does nothing to keep Disney a functional company.

It's the head in the sand mentality within Disney itself has given us Go.com, ABC, Fox Family, Disney Studios Paris, 102 Dalmatians 2: The Animated Sequel, a $300 million liability on the 'Pooh' contract and $15 billion in debt that has the vultures circling. And it's the head-in-pixie dust mentality among the fans that convinces those management types they can make money no matter how poor the product they turn out. Do you honestly think anyone in Disney believed there was a market for Atlantis 2: Milo's Return' besides the buy-anything brand monkeys?

"Disney" isn't a magical place that magical creates wonders that the entire world magically loves. It's a troubled company in a tough business that is currently lead by rather ineffective people. Ignoring the problems – and demanding that others shut-up about them – only serves to make those problems worse.

 

[KNWVIKING]

"I am not sure how to say this, but you can't be more wrong. In fact, other than that Walt is no longer alive, I can't say that I agree with a single thing you've said here."

Actually, I don't recall saying anything at all about Walt being dead so I guess we can disagree about everthing


""I've been to WDW every five years basically since 1972, and there has always been more than hot dog stands at the parks. Your buddy is dead wrong."

I'll take your word for it, but my buddy isn't the only person whose told me that. The CM who escorted our KTtK tour even made mention of the lack of locations and varity back in the old days.


OOOPS. Had to pick my wife up at work five minutes ago...finish later.

 

[KNWVIKING]

"Oh - and just out of curiosity.. How wonderful would you feel about Disney if they did the reverse - closed RIDES so the SHOPS and RESTAURANTS could stay open later? I kind of get the feeling from your posts that absolutely ANYTHING Disney does (or will do in the future) is A-okay with you.. Have you no bottom line at all?"

You couldn't be more wrong. I am very critical of a lot of the things I see at WDW, but I'm also a "glass half full" type person.

We all know ME did some bone headed things in the past that have had a negative affect on WDW and DL. But we can't do anything about that. I would love all the parks to open at 8 am and close at midnite.I'd love more thrill rides,more dark rides, more fireworks,more everything. I'd like unlimited CM's waiting on me hand and foot. But I know that isn't going to happen any time soon. And replacing ME tomorrow isn't going to make that happen either.

 

[KNWVIKING]

I wouldn't exactly say your three point summary of my post is what I was trying to say.

"2. Closing the stores only means we don't have to buy plush."

Now did I really say that. Or did I say something to the affect that post's in the past by many members of this board have taken pot shots at all the plush stores in WDW. No new rides,but plenty of new plush shops. Now it appears those same posters are outraged that these very shops would be closed after 6 pm.


"There are not many of us here who adore mountains of plush filling every corner of the world, true, but there are many of us here who zig when others zag. That means we like to shop early in the day, even at lunch time, to stay away from the crowds, and then while they tour the shops near closing time, we're sneaking that last ride on Pirates."

Thank you. Finally a reason why the shops should remain open till closing that I can understand. Great stratagy.You zagger's have a very good reason to be upset with the stores closing early.


"3. Car 3'ers hate to read trip reports where people have fun."

I don't think I specified a particular Car. And to expand a bit, this is true of the DVC board also. It's not that we/they dislike reading them, it's just my observation positive reports fade fast unless you throw in a " everything was great BUT.....". Guess it's just human nature.

"We may be negative on the future of WDW, but that doesn't mean that we don't love this Company and its history and its parks any less than you do."

Never said you didn't. I just said that sometimes it's hard to remember that you's do when I read your threads.


As for Baron's state of the world address: Has that happened yet this year ? I thought his last trip post was an abbriviated one. I'll have to go back and check. I've been posting on this board for a little over a year,very little at first,more often lately.I read one a year ago though.

After awhile you get to know what to expect from various posters as I'm sure you've formed an opinion about me. Baron is one of the harshest critcs IMO. Then he goes and posts his pixie dust trip reports.This is going to be hard to explain, but in a way he is a perfect example of my Car 1.5 position. If I had never been to WDW but spent all my time reading these boards, then I don't think I'd ever want to go. The place must suck. Everything from chicken fingers to toilet paper, $2.50 sodas to Charactor Caravan. On and on and on. Then Baron post his report and he has a great time. Well, since '97, I go 3-4 times a year and regardless of what I read here I have a GREAT time. Last week we stayed on I-Drive and did a mostly non-WDW activities- IOA,US,SW,WnWild,etc. I know some people love the ides at IOA and US and awhile back there was a mega thread about IOA/US out-valueing WDW, but from what I experience, they have a LONG way to go to catch Disney,even in it's current state.

Ok, it's late and I'm rambling. nuff said.

 

[C.Ann]

Originally posted by KNWVIKING
[BYou couldn't be more wrong. I am very critical of a lot of the things I see at WDW, but I'm also a "glass half full" type person.

[/B]

I think ALL of us who love Disney TRY to see the "best" side of it but there comes a time when we step back and say, "Now wait a minute.. Is that half a glass still worth the value of a full glass?"

As someone else pointed out here, we're not all DVC folks - we're not all stock holders - and a whole BUNCH of us are extremely lucky to get to Disney World every few years, if that..

It's extremely frustrating - and terribly disappointing - to be sold a bill of goods - work hard, pinch pennies, scrape up money from whatever sources are available to reach our goal (and our destination) - only to find the game plan has changed entirely and we really aren't getting what we paid for.. It's the unpleasant "surprises" that set the tone - not the mind set that we leave home with..

As I said earlier, I'm going to Disney World in December - and one of the things I was MOST looking forward to was the Osborne Lights.. Well.....we all know the story on that one.. I'm EXTREMELY disappointed - but I'm STILL trying to remain upbeat and optimistic - hoping that I'll have a wonderfully magical time.. Unfortunately it's becoming harder and harder.. I wish that Disney and their "cut this, slash that" mentality wasn't something that I have to worry about for the next 6 months.. Who knows what ELSE will be hacked away by the time I get there?

I don't see that as being anti-Disney.. I see that as having to deal with the ugly realities of where Disney stands today..

 

[KNWVIKING]

"As someone else pointed out here, we're not all DVC folks - we're not all stock holders - and a whole BUNCH of us are extremely lucky to get to Disney World every few years, if that.."

Actually, I feel that the "every few years" visitor has an advantage over me. While I love going frequently, the trips I make now are not nearly as memorable or as exciting as my first in '95 or 2nd in '97. I don't think any less of te parks, but they aren't as fresh- for lack of a better word- as they once were. This isn't because I feel they have declined, it's just that I've been there too many times. Hard to explain.

PS: The Osborne lites may have been given a reprieve for this year. I'll keep my fingers crossed for ya.

 

[blackshirt]

Originally posted by KNWVIKING
"Was this the same no-good-manpower they have been letting go over the past 3 years? Wonder what changed? They were good enough to be working for Disney when the money was flowing in. Now it's tough to get good help?"

I didn't say why there wasn't good manpower. I agree,Disney's past lay-offs have cost them a great asset- qualified,dedicated,enthusiastic workers. These people are working for Gaylord Palms,Seaworld and several other top-notch places.

"Regular posters here? I'd say about 50/50. Blow the whistle and suddenly you will see "Disney Rose Colored Glasses" all over this place."

eh, more like 60-40 negative.

Explain "Blow the whistle" .... I don't get it.

Hey, dude, seriously man, what kind of stuff you been doing? Let us all in on the secret here

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

A friend of mine was at MK back in '74-'75, some high school senior trip. He says that back then all the "show" had to offer was a couple hotdog stands.

Mr. King! I advise you to find your friend. Right now!! And when you're face to face with him, clout him in the head with a 2 by 4 and call him a dirty rotten liar!!!! Cause that's what he is. Plain and simple. I was there.

Because of a lack of funds, they choose to close the shops to reduce payroll rather then rides based on the valid logic that guests were paying admission to go on rides, not go shopping.

You really have to explain to me why it is that the ONLY (slight hyperbole alert) Division within the company to turn a profit is forced to cut back because of ‘lack of funds’!?? How absurd!!! How ridiculous!! How very, very sad!!

If MK is in the same situation now, isn't closing some shops at six a better option then shutting down rides or closing the entire park early ?

Well, maybe that answer will do for you. Maybe you don’t care about underlying reasons. Maybe your ‘half full’ attitude is all it takes to keep the pixie dust in your eyes.

But it isn’t nearly enough for me. I want to know why a company that was founded on Walt’s principle of “Give the people everything you can give them”, can fall so short of the mark. How can they simply ignore this very basic SHOW tenet? How can they have such utter contempt and blatant disregard for the Disney philosophy?

Heck!! It’s this very philosophy that brought most of us to the dance in the first place!! If they succeed in utterly destroying these beliefs they will be no better than Universal or even Six Flags. Just another amusement park, in it for the buck. This is on a par with workmen painting during the day, in plain sight of the guests. But, then again, there are those here that see nothing wrong with that either!!!

 

[KNWVIKING]

"You really have to explain to me why it is that the ONLY (slight hyperbole alert) Division within the company to turn a profit is forced to cut back because of ‘lack of funds’!?? How absurd!!! How ridiculous!! How very, very sad!!"

How can I explain it. Read my first post:

"I think with this rumor, seeing is definitely believing. Closing your profit centers makes no sense."

Does anybody know why they are closing the stores ? Any idea how long this will go on ? Is it a "quick fix" until new employee's are trained and ready to fill positions ? Any insiders out there care to share some info ? I guess one of the big differences between you and I Mr. Baron is that what I perceive as an annoyance that really isn't going to affect MY vacation experience as it will Airlarry's, you perceive as the systemic downfall of the entire Empire. But you've got 20 years of Disney history on me.

As for what eateries were availible back in the early '70s, I haven't a clue. But my friend had no axe to grind or reason to lie. Two years ago he had just returned from his first trip back to WDW since high school. He was emmensly impressed. His comment was something to the effect of " Man, back in HS all they had were hotdogs and icecream bars. Now,that place is unbelievable".