Gun control

[Bob O]

The idea of using chain gangs is great!!! And its a good excercise program and if we work them hard enough and long enough it will be good for aerobics!! Make the prisoners pay back what they took form society!!!! And naked prisoners are fine by me!!!! And we can never overlook the safety of the guards, but alot can be concealed in small openings!!

 

[captin fink]

Eros... All good things must come to an end (Me agreeing with you). Bob O has a point about our criminal justice system and how we treat CONVICTED CRIMINALS (oh, I almost forgot it’s not their fault they held up the 7 eleven, its society’s fault, they didn't get a good education or was it because The Man is keeping them down ). I see nothing wrong with making prisoners do hard labor including chain gangs. In today’s society, I don’t think the abuses of the old southern chain gangs could happen. Not when prisoners are allowed to file law suites because they do not like the food or they have taken away HBO from the cable package that is hooked to the color TV. I’m sorry, but I believe that if you are convicted of a crime, you for fit most of your so-called rights. I believe that a prisoner has the right to not be abused by their guards, the right to appeal their case (the one they were convicted on and sent to prison for in the first place) and the right to basic shelter and food. After that anything else is a privileged.:

 

[minniepumpernickel]

emmagatta- Thats terrible, that you were shot! Glad that you recovered okay!

Bob- Lol, you never hold back much! I don't like to see prisoners pampered, but your view is more extreme than mine.

Capt. Fink- When I was growing up I remember several incidents in base housing where guns went off accidentally. One time a young marine was shot, and he died. Another time, someone shot a hole in the washing machine. It's weird how those things happen.

I think that the registration in each state should be uniform. Some states have a direct line to the state police, to check backgrounds this seems like a much better idea than the waiting periods check. If a felon is on the loose, tries to buy a gun, they can be caught right away!

 

[captin fink]

I remember several incidents in base housing where guns went off accidentally. One time a young marine was shot, and he died. Another time, someone shot a hole in the washing machine.

minniepumpernickel- Just a question, were those guns just sitting around unloaded and accidentally went off? Or is it possible that someone was handling a loaded gun with out regard to proper safety precautions?

Rule number one never point the end of a gun (loaded or unloaded) at anything or anyone that you do not intend to shoot.

Again I say thier is no such thing as an accidental gun discharge.
you may call it an unintensional discharge however

 

[minniepumpernickel]

Captin Fink, I really don't remember the details surrounding the incidents. It does seem weird that incidents like this happen. Maybe some people are too immature to be handling guns, or maybe they are too unstable. Is the difference between the words 'accidental' and 'unintentional' really that significant? Is that NRA speak?

Not everyone that owns a gun, should have one. It's too easy to get one.

 

[ChibiJones]

Look at how the politicians were just happy to violate our freedom of speech rights in the new public campaign laws where they "LIMIT" speech before both the primaries and main elections.

The laws I'm familiar with don't allow campaigning within so many feet of a polling place. The intention there is to allow voters to exercise their right to vote without feeling pressure or coercion from any political group. Freedom to vote is the cornerstone of our political system and should not be interferred with. I see more danger to our government by losing an impartial vote than a slight restriction on campaigning. The candidates have ample opportunity to get their message to voters.

 

[adamak]

If anit-gun control arugements are -
1. I am mentally sane, and I should own as many guns as I want.
2. I am responsible, therefore, no accidental discharge.
3. I legally bought & registered all my guns.

Wouldn't I be able to use the same arguement towards firearms, such as bombs, fireworks, grenades, machine guns... and possibly illegal drugs?

While I understand you understand the differences between bombs and hand guns, shouldn't there be some laws to protect ME from those who do not understand and abuse their rights? Why won't gun owners want to give up some of their rights so this world becomes safer?

It just seems strange to me that -
(a) there are laws limiting how many pets you can have, and yet no laws to limit guns.
(b) insane people and criminal abused their rights, and others get killed. Unlike smoking or drugs, gun incidents = someone died immediately.

If gun users need to go through similiar registering / testing process as the drivers license, I think the world be slightly safer. Of course it'll not stop all the crimes, but I know at least there is a process out there to TRACK those who own guns.

I am very sure my fellow DISers are all very responsible gun owners. I have no problems with people owning guns or the # of gusn they own. I am trying to think of a way to protect me from crazy snipers out there.

 

[Demosthenes]

Originally posted by adamak
I have no problems with people owning guns or the # of gusn they own. I am trying to think of a way to protect me from crazy snipers out there.

What law would you propose that would have stopped the snipers?

 

[Demosthenes]

Originally posted by adamak
Why won't gun owners want to give up some of their rights so this world becomes safer?

Ben Franklin warned us that, “He who gives up liberty for a little temporary security deserves neither liberty nor security.”

 

[emmagata]

Originally posted by adamak
I am trying to think of a way to protect me from crazy snipers out there.

What do you think your chances of getting shot by a sniper are compared to all the other death defying feats you do everyday?

You have a much higher chance of getting hit by a bus.

 

[Bob O]

adamak, The foudning fathers knew the importance of gun ownership and didnt want limits placed on that right, just like they didnt want any limits placed on political speech.
And all of the guns laws wouldnt have stopped anybody who wanted to be a sniper.
As for gun registration/background checks each state should determine on their own how they want to handle it without big brother federal government telling them what they have to do!!

 

[minniepumpernickel]

Originally posted by Demosthenes
Ben Franklin warned us that, He who gives up liberty for a little temporary security deserves neither liberty nor security.

Would Ben be saying the same thing if he were alive today? The times , they are a changing man! They didn't have to deal with the same type of issues or weapons, that we do today.

 

[minniepumpernickel]

Originally posted by emmagata
What do you think your chances of getting shot by a sniper are compared to all the other death defying feats you do everyday?

You have a much higher chance of getting hit by a bus.

That doesn't mean that society needs to accept acts like these. I hope we never become so blase to think that just because it happens to them, and not us, that it shouldn't be addressed.

 

[minniepumpernickel]

Originally posted by Bob O
adamak, The foudning fathers knew the importance of gun ownership and didnt want limits placed on that right, just like they didnt want any limits placed on political speech.
And all of the guns laws wouldnt have stopped anybody who wanted to be a sniper.
As for gun registration/background checks each state should determine on their own how they want to handle it without big brother federal government telling them what they have to do!!

Why do some people distrust the government so much? Have they ever tried to take away guns since the revolutionary war?

 

[emmagata]

Originally posted by minniepumpernickel
Why do some people distrust the government so much? Have they ever tried to take away guns since the revolutionary war?

I don't completely distrust the government, I just don't trust them completely.

Have they ever tried to take away guns since the revolutionary war?

Yes, that has happened. Not on a nationwide scale but in certain cities,states and local towns.

Not by force, but by passing unconstitutional laws.

 

[captin fink]

Originally posted by minniepumpernickel
Is the difference between the words 'accidental' and 'unintentional' really that significant? Is that NRA speak?

I don't want sound like I'm debating the meaning of "is", but here is my view on the difference in the words

Accident- something that happens to somebody that is not the fault of anyone involved in the occurrence.

Unintentional- an occurrence that, although not intentional, is caused by someone’s negligence.

Originally posted by adamak
Why won't gun owners want to give up some of their rights so this world becomes safer?

Just a question. Taking gun right out of the picture, what rights would you be willing to give up to make this world a safer place?

 

[Grog]

Would Ben be saying the same thing if he were alive today? The times , they are a changing man! They didn't have to deal with the same type of issues or weapons

No, but these men weren't idiots. They may not have had the technology to build automatic or semi-automatic weapons, but I feel pretty sure that they could imagine the day when something like that might come along. We don't have the technology right now (or maybe we do and I don't know it) to make man-portable laser weapons (like in most sci-fi movies), but I bet a hundred years from now, or sooner, the technology will be there.

 

[Bob O]

Yes, Ben would be the same thing!!!!!!!!!!! He would see how the state's have little rights anymore in the face of a ever intrusive fedreal govnerment and would see attempts all over the country to take away the 2nd amendment rights that were given to us. he would see how the 1st amendment was just raped by the passing of campaign finance laws and how the same thing is happening to the 2nd amend. by incrementalism and using current events to take away rights like 9/11 has. Right now the 2nd amend. is under assault as is the first amend. and property rights have been lessened by enviromental laws so if you have water or a so-called endangered animal on your property you lose the ability to do with it what you want. And of course the list could go on and on!!
As for my country i love my country but FEAR my government who rarley has the needs of its citizens in mind but their power is always of importance.

 

[adamak]

Just a question. Taking gun right out of the picture, what rights would you be willing to give up to make this world a safer place?

Good question. I immigrate to this country, and I have given up lots of rights during the process. We immigrants were treated as criminals by default, and with the saying "better safe than sorry", I've been through lots of unfair treatments.

I have to get finger printed all the time. I have to prove to INS I'm not a criminal constantly, even though I am highly educated and a professional. I have to prove that I am truely in love with my husband, and my marriage is not fake. I have to hand over all my information to the government, for the rest of my life. Info that most Americans would never give to the gov't. And I have friends who are very successful career men/women, highly educated, and were taken in for "questioning", just because they lived in Michigan with Arab names. Can you imagine??

While this is a separate topic and at times frustrating, I understand why we need this process. YES, those are the things I have given up volunteerily to make this country a safer place. Therefore, I would register my guns if the gov't want me to.

 

[minniepumpernickel]

Adamak, thanks for telling us what your experience has been like! Thanks for asking the original question too, because this has been an interesting debate for me.

I wonder if our founding fathers, and Ben Franklin could have forseen anything like Columbine or any of the other gun related mass killings? What would they think about it? Would they be rolling over in their graves now? I was also kind of hoping that our future would be weapon free, like some kind of intergalactic utopia.

I did go to the NRA's website. I can't say that I agree with everything that I have read on there. I will most likely have to agree to disagree. It was nice to be able to have this kind of give and take on here....