Gun control

[emmagata]

Originally posted by epcotfan
I guess I used a poor choice of words. I was curious as to the necessity to own one (whether you keep it locked in a closet or not) I realize the majority doesn't tote one around with them.

I own firearms (both handguns and rifles/shotguns) for 3 reasons.

The 1st is that I used them for hunting (well I used to but don't anymore).

The 2nd is for defense of my family. I hope that I never have to.

The 3rd, and probably most important, is that the US Constitution says I can to help protect me from them. Sounds like the writers of the US Constitution put that in there based on past experiences.

Do I think that number 2 or 3 will ever happen?

No. Not really.

But then again, I always wear my seat belt while driving. I hope I'm never in an accident, but it's good to be prepared.

 

[adamak]

OK. Eros. I understand what the post says. Good point.

(I am asking this in honesty, because i dont' know) -
Can you have a unique serial number for each gun, kinda like the serial number for each car? So, if the finger printing failed, you will still 'somewhat' have a history of the gun. And if you lose your gun, you just deal with it the same way you dealt with a stolen car?

This is getting good. I rarely have an good argument with intelligent feedbacks.

 

[ncligs]

Originally posted by adamak

This is getting good. I rarely have an good argument with intelligent feedbacks.

I agree........

 

[emmagata]

Originally posted by adamak
OK. Eros. I understand what the post says. Good point.

(I am asking this in honesty, because i dont' know) -
Can you have a unique serial number for each gun, kinda like the serial number for each car? So, if the finger printing failed, you will still 'somewhat' have a history of the gun. And if you lose your gun, you just deal with it the same way you dealt with a stolen car?

This is getting good. I rarely have an good argument with intelligent feedbacks.

Each gun does carry a unique serial number stamped on it when the gun is made. The criminals usually file or grind it off. There are ways though to reveal the serial number even if it was filed off but it's not 100 percent effective.

You are supposed to report lost or stolen firearms to the authorities so they know that you don't have it any longer.

 

[Bob O]

The only reason the government wants to register firearms is so they know all the people who own guns and can confiscate them once their is a administration in power that is wiling to do so. They use crime or sniper killing as a smoke screen to hide the real agenda and that is that a small minority cares nothing of the constitution and wants all guns confiscated and will get their way if the wrong person is elected. Just like the so-called campiagn finance reform infringes on freedom of speech there are more than enough people who want to infringe upon gun ownership and know they cant do it in one fell swoop but will nick away at it little by little till they achieve their goal.
The crimes we have have have little to do with guns atall but the fact that their are alot of dishonest/immoral people in the country!! Every year we have deer hunting season where thousands upon thousands of people hunt and their is littel to no crime and only a few accidental shootings which is far less than the death rate on a average weekend in my city or any major city, so it is not a inantimate object like a gun that is the problem, its the dishonest/immoral person who uses the gun in a criminal manner.

 

[emmagata]

Originally posted by adamak
Wait a minute, everyone.....

Let me ask some basic questions -
Is gun control law banning all guns? (No??)
Is gun control requiring gun owners to register their guns? (Yes??)
Is gun control law limiting people from owning certain high power rifle, and # of guns total? (I think so???)

So. If my assumption above is right, if all gun control law does is asking you to register what you have, and tell you to not own so many guns or, high power guns.... what's the problem ? It's not taking away your rights to hunt or defense yourself. It's just asking you not to build an army in your backyard. (Or if you decide to, let us know by registering). That's all, isn't it?

Isn't it just like, register all your cars, but if you drive drunk with a monster truck on the road, we'll track you down?

And with that 'guns don't kill people, people kill people'. That's really not logical. That's like saying 'drugs don't' kill drug addicts, addicts kill themselves'. If so, why ban illegal drugs?

I really just don't understand. I'm pretty liberal. Please enlighten me.

The problem you are not seeing the whole picture.

The only reason for the 2nd Amendment is to give the citizens the means to protect themselves from a Govt gone bad. The 2nd Amendment puts no restrictions on the number or type of weapon that I can have. The Liberals are seeing to that.

The main reason against registration of firearms is that it has been seen throughout history is that in countries that had a registration system, it was used against the people. All they had to do was look at a list of names and address and go take the weapons away. Do some research, it's there in the history books.

But the main reason behind the anti-gun (meaning no one but police and the military should have firearms) movement is that they believe that if you remove the guns, the killings involving guns will be reduced or stop.

While I don't disagree that this would probably occur, it would be a small percentage. However, the choice of a killing weapon would just change to something else. Of course killing someone with a firearm is a lot less "up close and personal" as a knife or baseball bat.

But this is really all a secondary issue.

The main issue is that the US Constitution gives me the right to own a firearm to defend myself. I don't need any other reason to own one other than that.

What they (the anti gun movement) is doing is slowly chipping away at that basic right. A small limit here, a little there, an before too long, it will be illegal for me to own a weapon.
They use high profile cases as examples. They state that if there had been better gun control, it might not have happened.

It can also be stated that if there were no alcohol, we wouldn't have any drunk drivers killing people with their cars,

That's been tried. It didn't work. (that wasn't the main reason for the original prohibition).

 

[emmagata]

Originally posted by Bob O
The only reason the government wants to register firearms is so they know all the people who own guns and can confiscate them once their is a administration in power that is wiling to do so. They use crime or sniper killing as a smoke screen to hide the real agenda and that is that a small minority cares nothing of the constitution and wants all guns confiscated and will get their way if the wrong person is elected. Just like the so-called campiagn finance reform infringes on freedom of speech there are more than enough people who want to infringe upon gun ownership and know they cant do it in one fell swoop but will nick away at it little by little till they achieve their goal.
The crimes we have have have little to do with guns atall but the fact that their are alot of dishonest/immoral people in the country!! Every year we have deer hunting season where thousands upon thousands of people hunt and their is littel to no crime and only a few accidental shootings which is far less than the death rate on a average weekend in my city or any major city, so it is not a inantimate object like a gun that is the problem, its the dishonest/immoral person who uses the gun in a criminal manner.

Bravo!! Bob O!!

Well said.

We just can't stop saying it.

 

[Nikole]

We already have background checks and we already have waiting periods.

The next step is registration and I hope it never happens. Every country that has decided to require registration then turns around and uses its new list to start taking away people's guns.

Adam, as emmagata stated the problem with having that number and having the government and/or cops have those numbers, is I don't think there has been a single time that a government has made its citizens register their weapons and eventually removed those weapons. If there is....then just give it time. Ask Canada, UK and Australia how long it took and how much violent crime has TRULY gone down in those countries.....(Make sure you read unbiased stats on those.....as we all know the way stats can be manipulated)

And btw really each gun does have almost it's own fingerprint as to the marks it leaves on the bullets. They may not be quite as detailed and there may still be a degree of uncertainty, not to mention the guns aren't registered with fingerprinting done so you could have a hard time linking it....unless have 2 bullets or one bullet and the gun in order to link the two. The marks, the spin etc are usually fairly unique. (PS Although maybe I read too many Patricia Cornwell novels)

"adamak,
"Good post"........NRA members don't think like most law abiding citizens. They have a hard time understanding "registering guns,automatic weapons,waiting periods,etc". "
Sorry buddy but 1 I'm an NRA member and 2 are you insinuating that NRA members are not law abiding citizens or that we just don't agree with all those who would like to take our guns away? I see nothing wrong with a waiting period. I see nothing wrong with outlawing certain types of guns. I do see serious problems with registering. Then again, it's a topic I've read a decent amount about on both sides. A citizen who legally owns guns and uses them for hunting and/or personal protection is not a problem. However, these people are still the ones who would be left unarmed and unprotected if the anti gun lobby had it's way. The only ones left with guns would be military, police and criminals. Tell that to the liquor store owner who has a gun and is able to confront the robber who would like to take away the way he earns a living. Tell that to the woman who lives alone and is able to stop a would be attacker or thief who invades her home.

I'm all for keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, as soon as someone comes up with a real solution.

 

[emmagata]

Originally posted by Nikole
I'm all for keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, as soon as someone comes up with a real solution.

I think you hit on something there.

Criminals with no hands.

 

[poohandwendy]

Some really great posts here. I wanted to clarify that I brought up the 'freedom of speech' issue to make the point that when we start to limit the freedoms (any of them) of law-abiding citizens...we end up in trouble. Can anyone here (who is anti-gun or pro-registration) seriously say that they think criminals will register their weapons, wait the required period of time or go through a background check to get a gun? Please explain, specifically, how registration protects us from murder by guns?

 

[adamak]

Thanks for explaining. Now more questions.

Why would you think the gov't will take away your guns if there is a registration process? Yes, that might have happened before in history, but you've the ammendment rights to defend yourself. To me, registration and your rights are 2 different things. You have rights to own guns. The gov't can have rights to ask for registration. That doesn't mean the gov't is going to track you down and revoke your ownership.

Sorry, I didnt' grow up in this country. I am used to 'commoners' not able to own guns. Of course, as you all say, murder rates and crimes don't truely fall there either. I'm just very frustrated with the sniper case, in which everyone working on it is clueless. Yes, criminals are not going to register their guns either, and probably won't help in this situation. But I felt that with a registration system, you can at least tell where the gun could have been stolen before, and may have shed some lights.

If gun control won't help, then what will help?

 

[captin fink]

I have been away for a while so I am just getting caught up. First thing I have to say is (and I don't believe I am saying this )
I AGREE WITH EROS

There have been quite a few good posts here from both sides of the issue. One point that has not been addressed is about the number of guns that some one can own. Who will decide what is the limit on the number of guns a person can own? I currently own 15 guns, handguns, shotguns and rifles. All were ether purchase legally and registered or given to me by my father and grandfather. What if the government tells me I can only have 10? I have never been arrested, always followed all hunting laws and always transport my guns in a lawful manner. What five guns will I have to give up? The government will have seized property from me for no reason at all. Sound like a loss of property rights also.(but that is another topic)

The 2nd amendment was not written to protect sportsmen, hunters or target shooter. It was written so that the citizens would have the ability to protect itself form there own government.

Originally posted by Bob O
The only reason the government wants to register firearms is so they know all the people who own guns and can confiscate them once their is a administration in power that is wiling to do so. They use crime or sniper killing as a smoke screen to hide the real agenda and that is that a small minority cares nothing of the constitution and wants all guns confiscated and will get their way if the wrong person is elected. Just like the so-called campiagn finance reform infringes on freedom of speech there are more than enough people who want to infringe upon gun ownership and know they cant do it in one fell swoop but will nick away at it little by little till they achieve their goal.
The crimes we have have have little to do with guns atall but the fact that their are alot of dishonest/immoral people in the country!! Every year we have deer hunting season where thousands upon thousands of people hunt and their is littel to no crime and only a few accidental shootings which is far less than the death rate on a average weekend in my city or any major city, so it is not a inantimate object like a gun that is the problem, its the dishonest/immoral person who uses the gun in a criminal manner.

Bravo!!! Bob O

I think you just hit the nail on the head. Its like the old saw... If you drop a frog in boiling water it will scream. Put the frog in cold water and then turn on the heat and it will just sit there and be cooked and not utter a sound.

 

[Bob O]

As for wrrying about gun rights. Look at how the politicians were just happy to violate our freedom of speech rights in the new public campaign laws where they "LIMIT" speech before both the primaries and main elections. the same can happen to the second amendment and if the people of the Supreme Court dont adhere to what it states but finds meanings that dont exist any of our rights can be in jeopardy!!

 

[minniepumpernickel]

I do think that the number of guns one owns should be limited. I read an article in my local paper about a man in the city owns a whole house full of guns, that are strewn all over his floor, crammed in boxes, and stuffed in the closet. He takes medicine for schizophrenia. How could someone like this be allowed to own so many guns?

I have no doubt that some of the people on here know how to store, and use their guns properly. Doesn't it scare you that a lot of gun owners may not really know how to use their guns, or lock them up? How many people do you know that have had accidental discharges? My daddy was a gun instructer, and always emphasized gun safety, but I don't think a lot of people are aware.

Bob, do you think that society has a problem with crime? Do you see any solutions?

 

[emmagata]

Originally posted by minniepumpernickel
I do think that the number of guns one owns should be limited. I read an article in my local paper about a man in the city owns a whole house full of guns, that are strewn all over his floor, crammed in boxes, and stuffed in the closet. He takes medicine for schizophrenia. How could someone like this be allowed to own so many guns?

I have no doubt that some of the people on here know how to store, and use their guns properly. Doesn't it scare you that a lot of gun owners may not really know how to use their guns, or lock them up? How many people do you know that have had accidental discharges? My daddy was a gun instructer, and always emphasized gun safety, but I don't think a lot of people are aware.

Bob, do you think that society has a problem with crime? Do you see any solutions?

The person you described in your first paragraph should NOT be allowed to own ANY firearms.

But if there were limits to how many a person could own, would it be ok for him to own the limit?

I'm not in favor of limits just because some automatically thinks that if someone owns more than a few (pick a number, 1, 3, 8...
.), they are building up an arsenal to start a "war". While that may be true in some cases, I would bet that far more persons who own *many* guns are normal law abiding citizens and not stock piling weapons for evil reasons.

And how would you go about setting limits? The only way to set limits is for the proper agencies to know how many guns you already own. That's not exactly the same as registering each firearm individually by make and serial number, but it's pretty darn close.

I have a few firearms (I think around 10). Why? Because some are used for different purposes, much like someone has a bunch of different tools in a toolbox. Some have never been fired because they are (to the gun people), collectors items. Some of those I don't even have ammunition for so they'd be useless in the event I'd need to use it.

I took a hunters safety course when I was a young teenager before I hunted with my Dad. But believe it or not, I was shot once by someone (my best friend at the time) who got reckless.
Fortunately, the wounds weren't life threatening. I still have some scars though and I'm still carrying around some of the lead shot.

I haven't hunted in a while, but I think (at least in PA) a hunters safety course is required before they'll issue a hunting license.

I have no problems with requiring someone to know how to handle and store a firearm safely. But not a by a state sponsored agency. There are many privately owned shooting ranges that have range officers that are more than qualified to issue a certificate showing that proper training was completed.

You don't even need to own a firearm to take these classes.

I have personally witness blatant disregard of safe firearm handling. Both while hunting and target practice. When I see it, I usually do 1 of 2 things. If the person doesn't appear to be a nut or it's an acquaintance, I will ask them to be more careful. If I am at all uncomfortable with this persons actions, I pack up my gear and call the police.

 

[Bob O]

Society does have a crime problem and always will. But that is more of a problem of a lack of morality and proper parenting than anything to do with guns. And the criminal justice system hands out too little justice and wastes way too much time on supposed rehab and not enough time on just warehousing the criminals in our society. Their is no reason people in prison who are convicted criminals need much more than a very small place to rot with just enough food to subsist on. For alot of criminals going to jail is a step up from their normal living conditionswhere the only thing they may miss is sex/drugs(but of course some get that due to corrupt guards).
Their is no easy answer to the crime problem but one help would be in not rewarding single mothers to reproduce at will on the taxpayers dime. That will slow the inflow of criminals into the system. The great society made the problem a whole lot worse where a father was made meaningless in exchange for a government check.

 

[EROS]

Originally posted by Bob O
Their is no reason people in prison who are convicted criminals need much more than a very small place to rot with just enough food to subsist on.

...........And here I thought that the new Millenium was ushering in an "Age of Enlightenment" ..............

BOB, as the saying goes, the HUMANITY of a civilization can easilly be measured by an inspection of its prisons ........

 

[captin fink]

Originally posted by minniepumpernickel ...How many people do you know that have had accidental discharges? ....

As a NRA gun safety instructor once told me, "There is no such thing as an accidental gun discharge" It is the the gun owner's responsibility to make sure that their gun is handled in a safe manner. I for one have never had a gun discharge unless I intended for it to happen.

 

[Bob O]

EROS you must be reading way too many aclu pr releases!!!!
And inspecting a prison and finding a bed/toilet and nothing else in the cell would be very humane!! Give the prisoner 2 meals a day and they have life's essentials, which is more consideration than was shown to any victim of a crime!!!
And a agree with captain fink!!!

 

[EROS]

LOL, BOB . You'd probably feel that one of those old Alabama chain gangs was much toooooooooooooooo luxurious because those good ole boys were getting tooooooooooo much fresh air . Hey, I'm glad that you want to put a toilet in each cell rather than a hole in the floor . And why bother with prison uniforms??? Wouldn't you prefer to see the inmates nekkid??????
They wouldn't be able to hide any contraband, and the prisons would save a lot on laundry expenses. ........