Gulp, hope they are wrong!!!

[Uncleromulus]

Of course the price of gas has a lot to do with the value of Hybrids.
I read somewhere tho (Consumer reports?) that it will take 10 years of ownership of a Hybrid to make up for the initial cost (and the costly repairs ,service etc).
And just to add--people are still flying along at 80-90 MPH on the Interstates.

 

[manning]

YOu have a point there. slowing down and downsizing will save a lot of gas. I do now remember passing on a 96% efficiency furnace 20 years ago because it was pointed out to me that it was brand new tech and any repairs would wipe out any savings.

Has anyone have any experience with E85 yet?

 

[NotUrsula]

After doing some math (hopefully i did it correctly ) For every 1,000 miles you drive (Assuming you get 40 mpg hwy average in the Toyota and gas prices are $3.50 per gallon) you would save $15.40. The Toyota would have to last 454,000 miles (under the same driving conditions) before it became cheaper then a similar domestic make that was powered by a conventional motor....

Whether it is true or not, it kind of completely misses the point of creating a hybrid in the first place, which is to lessen dependence on fossil fuels. Up front cost is really a secondary consideration, because as fossil fuels get more and more scarce, those who don't have to use them will be ahead of the game in more ways than one. If you don't pay the cost in terms of vehicle fuel, you'll pay it in air conditioning and for food (which will become progressively more expensive as transport and cooling costs also rise.)

Here's another POV: I personally don't think that electric/petroleum hybrids will end up being the default engine choice for ground vehicles in the US. I'm involved in support of research efforts in the development of biodiesel refining, and I expect to see more Americans adopt biodiesel as it becomes the fuel of choice for commercial fleets. It's cheap (for Americans, anyway), it is infinitely renewable, and it takes very little effort/expense to convert a conventional internal combustion engine to run on it. The major retail oil companies are starting to get interested in selling it, and if they start widely offering it at stations, I think it will catch on fairly rapidly. I think it will become popular first in rural areas, and eventually become common in cities once people understand that it doesn't smell like ordinary diesel.

 

[mickey mommy]

Allowing gas to hit $5.00, or even 4.00 per gallon would be political suicide in an election year for Congress--it won't happen. I think we have seen as high as we're going to get, unless Curious George has more poor judgement and bombs Iran. Last year after katrina, prices suddenly began to drop after the media uproar. We have just begun the media hype again.

I pray you are right. I do remember the prices did drop after the media hype. I don't know if there were other factors in that or not, but it's really hurting our bank account. My husband drives 60 miles each way every day and I drive once a week to my office which is 80 miles from home (I work from home thank god!) But I drive a mini van and it cost me $85.00 to fill up today. This is INSANE!

 

[brentalex]

It's pure capitalism -- supply and demand, but not just here in America or Europe. The booming economies in China and India have increased the number of automobiles and the accompanying gasoline consumption in countries where the combined population totals 2 billion. Meanwhile, the refining capacity here in the US has not increased in years, the last refinery having been built in 1976.

Yes, but sometimes the 'capitalists' find that they can take advantage of the system in order to grab more for themselves. The big oil companies will be releasing their latest quarters earnings in the next few weeks. Lets see what kind of record profits they have made this quarter. The big companies have driven out all the small independent dealers. These dealers used to sell gas cheaper than the big companies forcing the big guys to keep their prices down. So what did they do, they bought up all the distributors, merged and merged and now there is little competition. So the price is what the big companies want it to be. Back at the beginning of the 20th century we had the 'robber barons'. I think that we are back there and hopefully even some Republicans in congress now seem to be realizing that something needs to be done.

 

[jonestavern]

Just yesterday, I came across this article on hybrids - they may not be as good for the environment or as helpful in reducing our dependence on foreign oil as we think! Apparently, it depends on the hybrid and how it is used!
Here'a a brief quote:
The car that started the hybrid craze, the Toyota Prius, is lauded for squeezing 40 or more miles out of a gallon of gas, and it really can. But only when it's being driven around town, where its electric motor does its best and most active work. On a cross-country excursion in a Prius, the staff of Automobile Magazine discovered, mileage plummeted on the Interstate. In fact, the car's computer, which controls the engine and the motor, allowing them to run together or separately, was programmed to direct the Prius to spend most of its highway time running on gasoline because at higher speeds the batteries quickly get exhausted. Indeed, the gasoline engine worked so hard that we calculated we might have used less fuel on our journey if we had been driving Toyota's conventionally powered, similarly sized Corolla -- which costs thousands less. For the owner who does the majority of her driving on the highway, the Prius' potential for fuel economy will never be realized and its price premium never recovered.
Here's a link to the whole article - worth reading and considering for those who are in the market for a hybrid:
Best wishes -

It is sooo tiresome when folks, like the ones who conducted this 'study'-& I use the word loosely--don't know what the heck they're talking about!
1st & foremost you must learn to cultivate efficient driving habits, this will greatly effect your mpg results! Most testers (& people) are not willing to conform completely~
Prius is designed, basically for stop & go driving & I totally agree with ducklite.
DH drives the Insight a 2 passenger hybrid. He has gotten up to 84 mph & avarages 74 mpg highway driving--he has a 4 hour rt commute. the Insight is designed for higway driving as opposed to stop & go.
The Insight was only $20,000 almost 2 years ago & earned us a $2,000 dollar tax rebate(of course those are available for some models of SUVs--real cute! )DH is very good re: maintenance & we haven't had to do any repairs on the Insight.

All hybrids are not created alike, there are some American 'hybrids' that totally do not justify the expense, IMHO, as the improvement in mpg is so very negligible. I think those much hyped 'hybrids' are just in the model line up to satisfy either government 'requests'( the gov't refusal to take any strong, innovative action on autos, over the past 20 yrs or so, has caused me to refer to their incremented improvements as 'requests)

Are you aware that companies, such as Mercedes Benz, make higher MPG models available in countries other than the USA? we are prisoners of our need for speed.

I think anyone whose job/income demands a truck or SUV should have them & get a sizeable tax rebate.

Oh, by the by, DH & DS17 are in Scotland now & the gas is roughly, $7.00 per gallon. It's always been much higher in Europe than the US.


Jean

 

[Disneyjosh229]

DH drives the Insight a 2 passenger hybrid. He has gotten up to 84 mph & avarages 74 mpg highway driving--he has a 4 hour rt commute.

To me, the saftey of a larger vehicle is priceless. Here in Michigan, I would say 60% of vehilces are SUV's, Pickups or Minivans. Im not sure how the 2 passenger Insight was standup to a Chevrolet Suburban or Ford F-250!!

 

[ducklite]

To me, the saftey of a larger vehicle is priceless. Here in Michigan, I would say 60% of vehilces are SUV's, Pickups or Minivans. Im not sure how the 2 passenger Insight was standup to a Chevrolet Suburban or Ford F-250!!

And if there weren't so many people driving gas guzzling vanity vehicles, those who actually care about the long term effects of out of control fossil fuel consumption on the environment wouldn't have as many worries now, would they?

Besides, you are just as likely to be injured or killed in an SUV or pickup as you are in a more fuel efficient car with proper restaints and airbags. It's a proven fact that a more than measurable percentage of SUV's perform poorly in crash tests.

Anne

 

[Disneyjosh229]

Besides, you are just as likely to be injured or killed in an SUV or pickup as you are in a more fuel efficient car with proper restaints and airbags. It's a proven fact that a more than measurable percentage of SUV's perform poorly in crash tests.

Anne

Lets get real hear anne!

If you are wearing a seatbelt in an F-250 with airbags, you will blow away any 2 seat Honda. Give me a break...

 

[bavaria]

And if there weren't so many people driving gas guzzling vanity vehicles, those who actually care about the long term effects of out of control fossil fuel consumption on the environment wouldn't have as many worries now, would they?

I find it interesting that most ppl have skipped over my PSA. I challenge you to find a high percentage of SVU's and minivans in Europe, where gas prices are high.

My comment was that higher gas prices do result in a change in behaviours in the long run, which in turn has ongoing positive impact on supplies and the environment.

I am tired of watching news stories about high fuel prices, and consumers saying 'what can I do?' When gas prices hit $5 a gallon in the US, vs the current $3, I am sure that there will be more thought put into long term changes in behaviour and vehicle buying habits.

I also stated that I won't rent an SUV, even though Hertz tries to upgrade me every time. Even though I am not paying for the fuel (I expense it), I won't drive a car with poor gas mileage and environmental impact.

And my Jetta saved my life a few years ago, so I don't believe that only a large vehicle is safe.

 

[disneyfan67]

It's pure capitalism -- supply and demand, but not just here in America or Europe. The booming economies in China and India have increased the number of automobiles and the accompanying gasoline consumption in countries where the combined population totals 2 billion. Meanwhile, the refining capacity here in the US has not increased in years, the last refinery having been built in 1976.

And don't pay attention to these "don't buy gas on a particular day" e-mails. The only thing that will happen is the people who would buy gas on those days will buy gas on other days. That e-mail has been around in one form or another for years (check snopes.com).

Be carefull there because you're using facts and simple common sense and some people don't like that. It's easier to blame one party or a President that you didn't vote for or like. The cold hard fact is that we as Americans have did this to ourselves and this problem has been 30 years in the making. We have limited refinery capacity, we can't drill for oil on our coasts, same with Alaska which is off limits, different blends of gasoline for every state, and then factor in our driving habits and vehicle choices. It's easy or lazy to just blame one person instead of doing some research. It's out there and there's no excuse for blaming just one person. There's plenty of blame to spread around.

Mexico has plenty of oil but outdated equipment and lacks the capitol/money to update it and we should be looking into that as well. It's easy to blame the big oil companies and I'm sure that they are profiting as well, but look at the price of a barrel of crude oil on the open market. If you tax or punish the big oil companies in America, that isn't going to change the price of crude oil on the open market. This isn't as clear cut an issue as some would like to think. If you think that an election will make gas $1 dollar a gallon again, then you're mistaken. Gas prices were rising to the level of 2 dollars plus a gallon in the last year of Clinton being in the White House in 2000. Did we do anything about the same problem facing us then, as it is now? The honest answer is no.


We need to get just one "boutique" blend of gasoline for all 50 states, build more refineries to process the crude oil into gas, start working on other types of fuel as well. Americans will be buying smaller vehicles just like they did in the mid 1970's when gas prices started to sky rocket. You will see very little SUV's being sold at $4 dollar a gallon gas prices. The market will be exploding for smaller cars and trucks. I hope we finally learned our lesson this time and maybe some good changes will happen.

 

[ducklite]

Lets get real hear anne!

If you are wearing a seatbelt in an F-250 with airbags, you will blow away any 2 seat Honda. Give me a break...

But not all accidents are vehicle on vehicle. It's a proven fact that SUV's roll much more often than cars. Bottom line, size does not always equal safety.

Anne

 

[Gary M]

The following article makes sense, but with the power and money of big oil, a person has to have doubts whether what the article says will happen.

I'm older than most of you on the DIS. I was in college when JFK set the goal to reach the moon within the decade (60's). I think the same massive effort to develope alternative fuels could work. I can only wish.



http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/thomas1.asp

 

[Disneyjosh229]

And my Jetta saved my life a few years ago, so I don't believe that only a large vehicle is safe.

The point I was trying to make was that not all little cars are unsafe. That is a false statement, as many cars, like the Volkswagon Jetta and Chevrolet Malibu are very safe when it comes to accidents. My point was though, that in a situation where a small car faces a large truck, 99.9 percent of the time, the large truck will cause the driver less harm. That is the reason, living where I do, that I pay more to fuel my SUV's.

To Ducklite: Yes, it is a proven fact that SUV's are more likely to roll in many situations. However advancements in stability systems have greatly reducded that risk. GM and Ford have excellent roll stability systems (Stabilatrak and AdvancedTrac) that are very effective against rolls...

 

[jonestavern]

The following article makes sense, but with the power and money of big oil, a person has to have doubts whether what the article says will happen.

I'm older than most of you on the DIS. I was in college when JFK set the goal to reach the moon within the decade (60's). I think the same massive effort to develope alternative fuels could work. I can only wish.

We can also recall the incentives put into place by the Carter administration.
This country could have , should have, been number 1, leading the world in alternative energy research, implementation, & marketing of such~

I, too, hope, this self-centered culture of ours can get it together enough to take the overwhelming lead in energy conservation & technology~

We live rurally, in the snowy, hilly country many people here have 'winter' & 'summer' cars & if, you can afford it, it's a good way to go. Often the winter car is the heavier or all wheel drive vehicle--

As for the heavy makes it safe point: Can a Hummer take out a F250? can an 18 wheeler take out both of them?


Jean

 

[DaisyD]

I believe it will go that high. Our prices here have increased from $2.89 to $3.29 in 4 days. The one station was switching to higher numbers when I drove by tonight so it is higher then $3.29 now.

 

[NotUrsula]

C'mon Josh, make up your mind. Either you blow away the little Honda that dares to cross your path, or you never see any little Hondas because the entire population of Michigan drives big domestic SUV's.

I've got to ask: just what special protection does driving that SUV gain you if the person who plows into you is also driving one? Or, heaven forfend, is driving a fully-loaded semi? You're still toast, but you're poorer toast, because you've got a ridiculously high car note and a horrendous gasoline bill.

I was in the middle of a nasty chain collision a few years back. I was driving down I-55 on my way to work, doing about 70, when a half-asleep trucker hauling a tanker full of creasote got a little punchy. He was in the fast lane beside me when the trailer started swinging wide, and I ended up in the role of hockey puck. He hit me and sent me across three lanes, but the Acura Integra I was driving held the road very well; I managed to steer out of it and straighten myself back up. Darned if he didn't hit me again, and I steered out of it again, but the second time I took down a pickup, an SUV and a minivan, who all went off the road and into a sandstone bluff after I bounced off them while pulling out of my trailer-induced spin. Both the pickup and the SUV rolled on the way off the road. I pulled to a nice slow stop on the shoulder, with two lovely round slices out of my door and back side-panel where the rig's wheels had cut them out as the Acura clawed to hold the road. I walked away with no injury more serious than a bruised hand, but the folks in the bigger vehicles were not so lucky. Of the passenger vehicles involved in that accident, I had the advantage because I had superior handling. Collisions have many causes and variables, and size is not always going to give you the advantage. It just depends on the luck of the moment, and your choice of vehicle may or may not help you at that moment.

BTW, that is the only road accident I've been a part of in my 30 years of driving. I drive defensively and well, in manual transmission cars that are low to the road and exceptionally maneuverable. As it happens, I don't feel that I need to drive a tank for protection.

 

[manning]

I think I just heard on tv that there are something like 18 different mandated blends of gasoline, maybe more.

I also read an article that it doesn't make sense to have all these blends, one would do. Also in that article it was pointed out as older cars are phased out it would have much more of an effect on reducing pollution than all the blends. Having one blend would reduce cost and allow gas to be tranferred from region to region as needed. If you remember the government had suspended the blend requirements for a time after Katrina. This also enabled the refineries to produce more gasoline.

 

[ducklite]

When gas hits $4 a gallon and all of you driving gas guzzlers go to fill them, don't whine about how much it cost to do so.

Or when you can no longer afford to fill the tank, and can't sell the car either, because the bottom has fallen out on the market for junior tanks, and you can't even get what you owe on it...

You made a choice, now you'll have to live with it. I can't wait to hear the sob stories.

Anne

 

[manning]

Well I don't have to worry about the trade in part. I'm driving a 1993 model and the trade-in ain't worth much. Hope to get another year or two out of it. It only has 162,000 miles on it. I got a full size car only because of safety. Things have come along way since then in that category. I have since driven a Camry and Ford Five Hundred and they are both nice cars with good mileage.