GRRR! So aggravated at my sister! Very long.

[LadyZolt]

Now what I need to find out is what happens since Sister has added herself to Father's checking account. The executor of the estate is Father's sister (my aunt) who is an attorney in another state. She is the one who told Sister to put herself on Father's account and make it joint so the account won't be frozen when Father dies. Does that mean any remaining funds can be withdrawn by Sister and she rides off into the sunset?

This depends on exactly how the account was set up. Like, my DH and I have a "joint account." It means that either of us can take money out, write checks, etc, and if one of us were to die, it would not change the ability of the other to access the account. If your father and sister have the joint account set up this way, then, yes, it is "her" account the same way a husband/wife joint account belongs to both of them. She could drain the whole thing right now -- the same as I could drain our joint account right now if I wanted to.

But she also may be on it in other ways, such as strictly by using her POA to make payments for your dad because he cannot, etc. She might be on it as the "pay on death" person -- the account goes right to her, not going through probate, when he dies. If your attorney aunt told her to set this up, maybe your aunt can also tell you exactly what type of arrangement was made.

As an aside, I was personal representative of my dad's cousin's estate and, because he had gotten old and sick, he worried that he would miss paying a bill, so he had put a neighbor lady on as "joint owner." She actually had access to the account from that point on, but only used it when he asked her to pay a bill. When he died, it legally passed to her. But she was a lovely, nice lady and when he died, she signed the account over to the estate as the lawyer asked, but she certainly did not have to. She could have legally said, "No, it's all mine" and she would have been right. She, however, believed that morally, it belonged to his estate and she wouldn't have even had access to it had he not asked her as a friend for help. But, sadly, you can't count on people behaving this way. When it comes to money, there's just no stopping some!

-Dorothy (LadyZolt)

 

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

Well, finally some GOOD news. Sister told Mother they won't let her move any of Father's IRA into the checking account. So THERE, Sister! Also, Aunt Executor told Sister that everything is going to have to go through probate - the car, the IRA, all of it. So yes, the creditors will end up taking all of it which is a shame for Mother, but Father DOES owe them so that is the way it should go.

I don't exactly know how Sister managed to add herself to the bank account. Father was already incapacitated when that took place, so he certainly didn't go down to the bank and add her on. I imagine she just took her POA papers and added herself as an authorized signer.

Mother seems to think his personal belongings can be divided up equally between the 3 of us (me and my 2 sisters). I don't want anything, but no way will I let Sister have half just because I am opting out. I'll take my third and give it to Mother. There isn't anything valuable to fight over, so I don't know what my third will consist of, but whatever it is I think Mother is far more entitled to it than Sister!

 

[EthansMom]

I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think your Mother is legally entitled to any of your father's assets since they are divorced. However, your Mom might stand a chance if she lays a claim against the estate for the missing insurance money for the 14 year-old. I'm not sure of the process, but she'd probably have to make a legal claim during the probate process and provide the divorce papers to prove that your father didn't meet his financial obligations toward the future care of your minor sister.

If your father's assets are minimal, it might not be work your Mom's time and/or money to fight it, though.

Good Luck!

 

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

EthansMom -
You are right - Mother is not legally entitled to anything. Just one more slap in her face to go along with all the others she has endured over the years. At least the SS benefits my youngest sister will get will be nearly QUADRUPLE what the child support has been.

Whatever I get (if anything) from the estate I will give to Mother, because if we are talking about who DESERVES assets VS. who has legal claim to assets then Mother deserves millions. Unfortunately I imagine the total assets are about $15,000.

Mother is moving out of state, so I am sure she won't bother to try to fight anything. Once the estate is in probate I doubt she (as my youngest sister's representative) would be first in line to be paid. But I will look into it. I think in the end if I am going to have to pay court costs I would be better off just giving the money to Mother. Sister can't do much more damage since she can't transfer anything else into her own name. Aunt Executor won't speak to me about the estate because she thinks Father is the best guy ever - she sent me a lovely piece of anonymous hate mail a few weeks ago. Talk about the inmates running the asylum.

 

[clh2]

In a case like this - won't the court appoint a "guardian ad litem" for your 14 YO sister?

 

[EthansMom]

EthansMom -
Unfortunately I imagine the total assets are about $15,000.

It sounds like most everything will be eaten up by your Dad's debts, medical bills and burial. Honestly, you're better off to just wash your hands of the whole mess and let your other sister and aunt deal with it however they want. It's not worth the headache for a few bucks or any stuff from your Dad's apartment. At least, that's what I would do.

With the insurance money and SSI, it sounds like your Mom will be better off than she had been. That's something.

to you and your family.

 

[christineann]

I feel your pain..........I have an older brother who estranged himself from our family for over 5 years. He made his triumphant return with his live in girlfriend, her two children and their illegitimate children. He made a big deal about how he wanted his children to know their grandparents, and the first time he was in a room alone with my sister and me, he asked us what furniture we wanted of Mom and Dad's when they die (my parents are in good health). I refuse to have anything to do with him - he can go to h*ll for all I care. His girlfriend has laid a guilt trip on my parents and has talked them into putting braces on her kids, and they recently turned her down when she asked them to buy her daughter a car. I saw the daughter's "Facebook" and sent my parents an email in March giving them some idea as to what behaviors the daughter is in to and offering to show them the photos she has posted on her website if they don't believe me. They have never mentioned it.

I hope you get everything worked out . Like you, I don't want anything of my parents' and I don't plan to profit when they die (hopefully a very very long time from now). I just can't be in the same room with my brother, and I am ashamed that I am related to him.

 

[LadyZolt]

This has nothing to do with death or estates, but as I recall, you said your parents were married for 30 years. That makes your mom entitled to half of your dad's social security. This assumes that he worked and would be eligible for social security. Not sure how old anyone is, but this should be some comfort to your mom. My parents were married for 25 years and my mom was a stay-at-home mom. She did work for 15 years after the divorce and pulls a small pension from that company, but she did not earn nearly what my dad did. However, the way the law is written, if you get divorced after a certain number of years (not sure the minimum, but 30 sure qualifies!) then, when your mom hits retirement age, she can collect either hers or half of his. His live-in lady, not being married to him, will not be able to collect it as far as I know.

Also, when your dad dies, if he's paid into Social Security, his minor child should collect a certain amount each month. This is something you might want to talk to Social Security about because that kicks in for a minor child no matter how old the working parent is when they pass away. Hope this gives you a bit of hope for your Mom's future.

-Dorothy (LadyZolt)

 

[ZipaDeeDooDah]

Oh. My. Word. I would be LIVID!!!

You sound so sensible and it's a shame you have to deal with such a ninny! I hope you are able to find the answers to your questions, and I hope things work out for you

 

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

LadyZolt -

Mother knows she will get SS benefits for my 14 yo sister. I just got my statement the other day, and since Father earned more and worked longer we are assuming her benefits couldn't possibly be lower than what my DS's would be if I died. That's how I know the SS benefits will surpass the child support she was getting. Mother did say she is entitled to Father's SS benefits if she is DISABLED because they were married in excess of 10 years. She just turned 58 this year so she won't be "retirement" age for awhile, but I will let her know that she needs to look into claiming his benefits when the time comes.

EthansMom-

You are right. It isn't worth the time or expense to try to fight for assets that in the end will be taken by creditors. If Sister and Aunt Executor have an estate sale (which is kind of a peculiar term for an apartment full of very ordinary belongings) then I will ask for my share of the profits so I can give the money to Mother. Otherwise, I am done. I wasn't sure that Aunt Executor planned to put the estate through probate, but it is looking like she won't have a choice. That guarantees Sister can't get much more, which was my goal in the first place.

 

[LadyZolt]

Hi again! I looked up the Social Security benefits online because I know my mom is collecting 1/2 of what my father would get (he's deceased, but she'd get it even if he wasn't). Here's what it says:

How divorce affects your future retirement benefits: If you are divorced after at least 10 years of marriage, you can collect retirement benefits on your former spouse's Social Security record if you are at least age 62 and if your former spouse is entitled to or receiving benefits. If you remarry, you generally cannot collect benefits on your former spouse's record unless your later marriage ends (whether by death, divorce, or annulment).

It also says: If your divorced spouse dies, you can receive benefits as a widow/widower if the marriage lasted 10 years or more.

Hmm. I suggest that you call Social Security and find out if that last bit will help your mom. I do believe she has not remarried. At any rate, it is nice to know that your 14-year-old sister will be getting this money, no matter what your other ditzy sister tries to do. She sure is one to generate headaches!

-Dorothy (LadyZolt)

 

[Missamoncus]

I don't know if this varies from state to state or what- but when my husband and I adopted our baby girl from China one of the endless streams of paper we had to sign for our homestudy was a statement that said we understood that in the event of our death , minor children are legally the first to inherit. Check with your lawyer , but that might be the case , and a point in favor of your 14 yr. old sister .

Melissa

 

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

LadyZolt -

I found similar info in my recent SS benefits statment. They send that recap every year but I never really read what it said about benefits. I just like to see how much DH & DS will get if I die so we can make sure our life insurance is where it needs to be. I called Mother last night and read that part ot her about divorced spouses qualifying for widow's benefits. She doesn't think she will qualify because she is too young, but she is going to follow up on it.

Missamoncus -

I haven't found anything so far that creates a distinction between minor children and those over 18, but it is something to ask about. The chain of custody for dispostion of remains specifically names all children over 18. The funeral home I spoke with told me if Sister wants to cremate Father I have to sign off on it, but I won't be financially liable. That is interesting about your adoption paperwork. I wonder if that simply means you can't will your assets to someone OTHER than your minor child? Kind of like you can't designate someone other than your spouse as primary beneficiary on your life insurance without your spouse's written consent. (The law varies from state to state, but it is true for TX.)

My 14 yo sister would receive a third of any remaining assets, but it isn't like there is a guarantee on the minimum amount she could receive, so that part confuses me. For example, if there is only $1 left after the debts are paid then we would each get a third. It wouldn't seem to matter if she got her $.33 first because it doesn't alter the amount she is entitled to. If there was some sort of guarantee that said she would get $100 then I can see where she would be entitled to the whole $1 and Sister and I would get nothing.

DS is sick today so I am home with him. I will have plenty of time to call some attorneys and see what I can find out. Thanks for the ideas!

 

[PaulaSue]

to you, your little sister and your mom.