greenban POLL: How do the recent rental changes make you feel?

[Candace]

Where's the "don't really care, but enjoying the show option"

OKW 200
BCV 150
SSR 100
HH 50
(Two different use years)

Kinda my sentiments too. I don't feel this will affect me, as I use my points at the resorts where I purchased them. OKW 400 April UY
HHI 165 April UY
BWV 180 August UY
VB 90 August UY
I use my home resort booking window. That's why I bought at 4 resorts, I wanted that priority.

 

[Beca]

These changes will not free up more BCV villas at 7 months unless the majority of those villas have been reserved by commercial renters (and if DVC is actually willing to take action against those members). If that is the reason BCV villas are in short supply are you then condoning commercial renting? You can't have it both ways. I fail to see how DVC benefits in either case and I do believe this is in response to complaints by members unable to make home resort reservations prior to 7 months.

Or, if BCV is so full because paranoid new owners have purchased there at very high prices, and book ridiculously early because they feel other paranoid owners are going to beat them to the punch! I am not saying commercial renting is not happening, but I also think that the fear of not being able to get into BCV is causing owners to be a little cuckoo....much like BWV owners call day by day to get a SV or BW view room. It doesn't take much paranoia at BCV to book up early December. But, as a BCV owner, I am much more comfortable having to just "deal" with the reality of owing at BCV than I am to see my flexibility limited to create more room.

As I said, I am NOT condoning commercial renting, but I purchased DVC KNOWING that it happened, that DVC didn't mind, and would probably never stop it. I also purchased thinking that DVC came with a certain amount of flexibility that it no longer has. I don't like the "trade" that has recently occurred.

I also feel that (as a friend said to me today) "It's like killing a mosquito with a sledgehammer." There are MUCH more "non-restrictive" ways to deal with commercial renters. DVC could, if they had chosen to, limited commercial renting WITHOUT restricting the number of trades. DVC also COULD'VE gone to the members with this if they had wished to....nothing is stopping them from asking for our imput (DVC has certainly been glued to these boards to hear what we have been saying now....why not before they made the change). Recognizing all of this....you'll have to forgive me if I don't take their story at face value.



Beca

 

[Fitswimmer]

First, if the policy has existed forever-what is the big deal? The rule was always there, so it isn't like people weren't properly notified.

Secondly, my thought was that DVC was trying to protect availability for owners. I may be wrong, but that was my impression of the enforcement. I bought into DVC so I could use it myself and with my family and friends. It's important to me to be able to get ressies when I want them. If cutting down on transfers and rentals will do that in any meaningful way-I'm all for it.

 

[RobDoc]

Or, if BCV is so full because paranoid new owners have purchased there at very high prices, and book ridiculously early because they feel other paranoid owners are going to beat them to the punch! I am not saying commercial renting is not happening, but I also think that the fear of not being able to get into BCV is causing owners to be a little cuckoo....much like BWV owners call day by day to get a SV or BW view room. It doesn't take much paranoia at BCV to book up early December. But, as a BCV owner, I am much more comfortable having to just "deal" with the reality of owing at BCV than I am to see my flexibility limited to create more room.

As I said, I am NOT condoning commercial renting, but I purchased DVC KNOWING that it happened, that DVC didn't mind, and would probably never stop it. I also purchased thinking that DVC came with a certain amount of flexibility that it no longer has. I don't like the "trade" that has recently occurred.

I also feel that (as a friend said to me today) "It's like killing a mosquito with a sledgehammer." There are MUCH more "non-restrictive" ways to deal with commercial renters. DVC could, if they had chosen to, limited commercial renting WITHOUT restricting the number of trades. DVC also COULD'VE gone to the members with this if they had wished to....nothing is stopping them from asking for our imput (DVC has certainly been glued to these boards to hear what we have been saying now....why not before they made the change). Recognizing all of this....you'll have to forgive me if I don't take their story at face value.



Beca

What then is your definition of "ridiculously early"? Unless the paranoia by BCV owners subsides, the 7 month window will still be a moot point for anyone except those owners. What will remove the "paranoia" you used to defend your comments? How do you know that DVC would probably never stop commercial renting and that they didn't mind? The FACT that it is in the legal documents should be a clue that it does mind.

You just need to decide for yourself who to believe - some have apparently chosen to believe anonymous internet opinions instead of using common sense and written legal documents.

 

[Deb & Bill]

I thought owners got the 11 month benefit at their home resort. How much more "ridiculously early" could they get? We often make our reservation at 11 months to make sure that we get it. We did that for VWL for Thanksgiving this year. And modified it slightly at 7 months using additional points from one of our other resorts.

Planning ahead if one thing our guide told us when we bought in 1997 and there was no SSR, VWL or BCV at that point.

 

[SimbaNoodle]

VWL/SSR

I always book at the 11 mo. window. Then, try to transfer at the 7 mo. window and have never had a problem. With over 20 trips, I have never stayed at my home resort except once at SSR.

 

[bobbiwoz]

...
But, as a BCV owner, I am much more comfortable having to just "deal" with the reality of owing at BCV than I am to see my flexibility limited to create more room.
...
Beca

OK, I am not an owner of BCV, but if the reason I can't get in at 7 months is because commercial renters who have transfered in other points into their BCV accounts have booked many villas for rent, then that affects me and I don't like it. Their accounts have benefited from a loophole in the system, and the system has created non equal non-BCV points.

The same for getting into a studio in VWL in December. Or, a standard view studio at BWV 10 1/2 months from check out date (that waitlist came through for me thank heavens). Or a GV at OKW, whatever the commercial person is booking.

We are willing to buy BCV points, but I will not buy them at a premium on the open market, I would rather go on a waitlist. I looked long and hard at recent March UY smaller contracts for sale, the owner did have to lower the price, just still not enough for me to buy. Those were stripped and just not worth it to us.

Bobbi

PS. I trust corporate Disney rather more than SOME of my fellow DVC owners. If DVC ever sells off or changes management at VB, we will be sad, but it was a risk that we took when we bought there. It's like the stock market semi-crash of recent memories, we have not "invested" what we couldn't afford to lose. We always shied away from timeshares. It was and is the Disney Magic that perhaps clouded our judgment, but for now, up to now, we have been extremely pleased with DVC.

 

[Beca]

You just need to decide for yourself who to believe - some have apparently chosen to believe anonymous internet opinions instead of using common sense and written legal documents.

Based on this comment, there is no further need discussing this with you.



Beca

 

[greenban]

Sadly, this poll was to get a sense of feelings.

You know (I hope) those nebulous, sometimes fleeting emotions, (gut reactions) that are not always based, on cold, calculated, logic.

Common Sense is unfortunately none-too-common, and is not only what some others try to force down the throats of those who disagree with them.

What is common sense to me is clearly alien to several BIG WIGS here at the DIS, just as I'm certain, they would love to squash a noisy frog, who points out inconvient things, or perhaps laughs too loudly.

FWIW, on this anomous internet nexus called the DIS, Beca's common sense more completely meshes with my real-world experiences, than that proposed by some others, who come awfully close to a demeaning and personal attack in their replies to her, JMHO, YRMV!

Viva la diferance!

-Tony

 

[isyt]

I have been watching this and other threads and I am a little concerned. I wouldn't consider myself a "commercial renter" but I have 1300 points that I had bought in several small contracts over several years in hopes of staying for months when we retire. I know others have done the same. I have rented lots of time because I have extra points and to defer some of the maintanance fees so I am unsure how this would effect me. I have also done several transfers this year for people who needed a few points. I think I would be more concerened about tranferring points between my own contracts (6). I have never and never will make a ressie with out myself or a renter (ie..sell a xmas ressie). I always do get nervous about change so I hope this works out because I would be really dissappointed to sell off extra contracts (that hubby won't let me go down as much as I want)!!!

 

[JimC]

OKW and BCV.

I don't see how this changes much, unless you meet their definition of commercial renter. I saw DVC's notice as a reminder of the existing rules and a caution regarding greater enforcement. I suspect that some of the system upgrades they have/are doing provide monitoring capabilites so they now are in a position to see a pattern of activity.

 

[jdg345]

First, if the policy has existed forever-what is the big deal? The rule was always there, so it isn't like people weren't properly notified.

That's exactly what I've been thinking now that I'm a little more caught up. DVC has a rule. They're just saying, "Hey everyone, don't forget we have this rule. We may have let it slide in the past, but we plan to be a little more strict now." It sounds to me like either: (1) People have become spoiled, or (2) People just want to complain for the sake of complaining.

Secondly, my thought was that DVC was trying to protect availability for owners. I may be wrong, but that was my impression of the enforcement. I bought into DVC so I could use it myself and with my family and friends. It's important to me to be able to get ressies when I want them. If cutting down on transfers and rentals will do that in any meaningful way-I'm all for it.

I don't think the transfers themselves are that big a deal. I think the biggest issue may be people with large BCV or BWV contracts who are booking the peak periods 11 months out, for a week at a time, and then ebaying those weeks (or listing them on other time share swap sites). *shrug*.

Of course, everyone blames SSR owners, but they can't affect the 11 month window ... so ... that's rather moot ... Unfortunately, all it would take is a handful of people with 1000+ point contracts to screw this up for everyone so they can make a buck. I think DVC is just trying to 'scare' them into stopping -- I really don't think they'll be able to identify any sorts of patterns ... but that's just me.

 

[jdg345]

OK, I am not an owner of BCV, but if the reason I can't get in at 7 months is because commercial renters who have transfered in other points into their BCV accounts have booked many villas for rent, then that affects me and I don't like it. Their accounts have benefited from a loophole in the system, and the system has created non equal non-BCV points.

The same for getting into a studio in VWL in December. Or, a standard view studio at BWV 10 1/2 months from check out date (that waitlist came through for me thank heavens). Or a GV at OKW, whatever the commercial person is booking.

We are willing to buy BCV points, but I will not buy them at a premium on the open market, I would rather go on a waitlist. I looked long and hard at recent March UY smaller contracts for sale, the owner did have to lower the price, just still not enough for me to buy. Those were stripped and just not worth it to us.

Bobbi

PS. I trust corporate Disney rather more than SOME of my fellow DVC owners. If DVC ever sells off or changes management at VB, we will be sad, but it was a risk that we took when we bought there. It's like the stock market semi-crash of recent memories, we have not "invested" what we couldn't afford to lose. We always shied away from timeshares. It was and is the Disney Magic that perhaps clouded our judgment, but for now, up to now, we have been extremely pleased with DVC.

But isn't this the crux of the problem? Someone buys a small BWV or BCV contract on resale/open market/etc. They also have a large 1000 point contract at OKW and/or SSR, etc. They then transfer those 1000 or 2000 points into their BCV/BWV account. These transferred points are now BCV/BWV points, right? If so, they can take advantage of the window and book up a bunch of weeks in advance.

That's why waitlists come through imo ... these commercial folks don't move that week, cancel the ressie, and book a different week.

Of course, if I'm completely misunderstanding the way this works, then I apologize ... but I also fail to see what the big deal is then?