Great Society: Part 2?

Zippa D Doodah

<font color=red>Suffering from Fairy Alienation.
Joined
Apr 9, 2003
Messages
16,532
Sounds like the mother of all stimulus packages is heading our way. Link this with the promised entitlements of Obama's campaign, and it certainly sounds epic in proportion. Are 95% of us still going to get tax cuts?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27854138/print/1/displaymode/1098/

Obama: 'Millions of jobs' in danger next year
President-elect outlines recovery plan, warns worst may be yet to come
msnbc.com news services
updated 3:40 p.m. ET, Sat., Nov. 22, 2008
WASHINGTON - U.S. President-elect Barack Obama said on Saturday that he was crafting an aggressive, two-year stimulus plan to revive the troubled economy, warning that swift action was needed to prevent a deep slump and a spiral of falling prices.

"If we don't act swiftly and boldly, most experts now believe that we could lose millions of jobs next year," Obama said in prepared remarks for the weekly Democratic radio and video address.

"We now risk falling into a deflationary spiral that could increase our massive debt even further," he said.

A day after U.S. stock markets rallied on his apparent choice of Timothy Geithner as Treasury secretary, Obama gave a bleak assessment of the economy in his most detailed comments on the subject since winning the Nov. 4 election.

Obama in October called for a $175 billion stimulus measure, but his comments in the radio address on Saturday signaled he was prepared to push for a much larger package, though he did not give a price-tag.

The economic recovery plan being developed by his staff aims to create 2.5 million jobs by January 2011, and he wants to get it through Congress quickly and sign it soon after taking office.

He called the plan "big enough to meet the challenges we face" and said that it will jump-start job creation but also "lay the foundation for a strong and growing economy."

The proposal for a two-year stimulus plan further indicated a sizable effort. Most such plans are aimed at covering a one-year period.

The number of Americans on the unemployment rolls surged to the highest level in 16 years, up more than 540,000, the Labor Department said on Thursday.

'Ignored for far too long'
Obama said his plan would rebuild roads and bridges and modernize schools while developing alternative energy sources and more efficient cars.

"These aren't just steps to pull ourselves out of this immediate crisis; these are the long-term investments in our economic future that have been ignored for far too long," Obama said.

A trio of crises — housing, credit and financial — have badly damaged the economy, and financial analysts have projected the country's economic hardships will continue through much of 2009.

Obama acknowledged Saturday that evidence is growing the country is "facing an economic crisis of historic proportions." He noted turmoil on Wall Street, a decrease in new home purchases, growing jobless claims and the menacing problem of deflation.


He said he was pleased Congress passed an extension of unemployment benefits this week, but added, "We must do more to put people back to work and get our economy moving again."

He cautioned, "There are no quick or easy fixes to this crisis, which has been many years in the making, and it's likely to get worse before it gets better." But Obama said Inauguration Day, Jan. 20, "is our chance to begin anew."

Obama said getting congressional approval for his broad economic plan will not be easy.

"I will need and seek support from Republicans and Democrats, and I'll be welcome to ideas and suggestions from both sides of the aisle," he said. "But what is not negotiable is the need for immediate action."

Across the country, Americans "are lying awake at night wondering if next week's paycheck will cover next month's bills," people are showing up at work to clear out their desks and retirees are watching their life savings disappear, Obama said.

Senate majority leader Harry Reid said congressional Democrats will "continue pushing for aggressive but necessary measures" to improve the economy. He said part of that included passing a substantial recovery package like Obama's.

Concluding his radio message, Obama said in this country's darkest hours, the American people have risen above their divisions to solve their problems.

"We have acted boldly, bravely, and above all, together," Obama said. "That is the chance our new beginning now offers us, and that is the challenge we must rise to in the days to come. It is time to act. As the next president of the United States, I will."
 
The stimulus package isn't just cutting checks to citizens. Obama has discussed several key issues...including job creation. Getting our citizens back to work will help our economy.
 
To paraphrase Rham Emanual, never let an economic "crisis" go to waste. :sad2:
 
To paraphrase Rham Emanual, never let an economic "crisis" go to waste. :sad2:

I know, right?

How dare we try to get our citizens back to work and create new jobs for our workers.

Damn them!
 

I know, right?

How dare we try to get our citizens back to work and create new jobs for our workers.

Damn them!

But couple this with the promised social agenda entitlements, and what direction does that take us in?
 
But couple this with the promised social agenda entitlements, and what direction does that take us in?

I don't know. Do you know?

What I DO know is that putting our citizens back to work will feed money back into our economy. The same economy that is struggling right now. The same citizens who are struggling right now.
 
I know, right?

How dare we try to get our citizens back to work and create new jobs for our workers.

Damn them!

Unfortunately for us that means bloated government jobs that follow every Democrat into the White House:lmao:
 
The stimulus package isn't just cutting checks to citizens. Obama has discussed several key issues...including job creation. Getting our citizens back to work will help our economy.

How does the government create jobs?
 
Arg.

Everything I read says that the government just has to let this take it's course and not keep throwing imaginary money at the problem. Pretty soon I guess we will just have to print more money!

It's going to be a long, scary road.
 
Unfortunately for us that means bloated government jobs that follow every Democrat into the White House:lmao:

Never mind a bloated inefficient war that will leave our great grandchildren in debt. But what is a few trillion dollars here and there.;)
 
Well I guess we can just keep on with what has been happening (I'm assuming that you are happy with where the country is right now) ....continue the same policy, would that work better for you and America?
 
Shouldn't the title be "The New New Deal"?

(that's what the news showed this morning)
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/23/business/23view.html?ref=business

ECONOMIC VIEW
The New Deal Didn’t Always Work, Either

By TYLER COWEN
Published: November 21, 2008
MANY people are looking back to the Great Depression and the New Deal for answers to our problems. But while we can learn important lessons from this period, they’re not always the ones taught in school.


The traditional story is that President Franklin D. Roosevelt rescued capitalism by resorting to extensive government intervention; the truth is that Roosevelt changed course from year to year, trying a mix of policies, some good and some bad. It’s worth sorting through this grab bag now, to evaluate whether any of these policies might be helpful.

If I were preparing a “New Deal crib sheet,” I would start with the following lessons:

MONETARY POLICY IS KEY As Milton Friedman and Anna Jacobson Schwartz argued in a classic book, “A Monetary History of the United States,” the single biggest cause of the Great Depression was that the Federal Reserve let the money supply fall by one-third, causing deflation. Furthermore, banks were allowed to fail, causing a credit crisis. Roosevelt’s best policies were those designed to increase the money supply, get the banking system back on its feet and restore trust in financial institutions.

A study of the 1930s by Christina D. Romer, a professor at the University of California, Berkeley (“What Ended the Great Depression?,” Journal of Economic History, 1992), confirmed that expansionary monetary policy was the key to the partial recovery of the 1930s. The worst years of the New Deal were 1937 and 1938, right after the Fed increased reserve requirements for banks, thereby curbing lending and moving the economy back to dangerous deflationary pressures.

Today, expansionary monetary policy isn’t so easy to put into effect, as we are seeing a shrinkage of credit and a contraction of the “shadow banking sector,” as represented by forms of derivatives trading, hedge funds and other investments. So don’t expect the benefits of monetary expansion to kick in right now, or even six months from now.

Still, the Fed needs to stand ready to prevent a downward spiral and to stimulate the economy once it’s possible.

GET THE SMALL THINGS RIGHT It’s not just monetary and fiscal policies that are important. Roosevelt instituted a disastrous legacy of agricultural subsidies and sought to cartelize industry, backed by force of law. Neither policy helped the economy recover.

He also took steps to strengthen unions and to keep real wages high. This helped workers who had jobs, but made it much harder for the unemployed to get back to work. One result was unemployment rates that remained high throughout the New Deal period.

Today, President-elect Barack Obama faces pressures to make unionization easier, but such policies are likely to worsen the recession for many Americans.

DON’T RAISE TAXES IN A SLUMP The New Deal’s legacy of public works programs has given many people the impression that it was a time of expansionary fiscal policy, but that isn’t quite right. Government spending went up considerably, but taxes rose, too. Under President Herbert Hoover and continuing with Roosevelt, the federal government increased income taxes, excise taxes, inheritance taxes, corporate income taxes, holding company taxes and “excess profits” taxes.

When all of these tax increases are taken into account, New Deal fiscal policy didn’t do much to promote recovery. Today, a tax cut for the middle class is a good idea — and the case for repealing the Bush tax cuts for higher-income earners is weaker than it may have seemed a year or two ago.

WAR ISN’T THE WEAPON World War II did help the American economy, but the gains came in the early stages, when America was still just selling war-related goods to Europe and was not yet a combatant. The economic historian Robert Higgs, a senior fellow at the Independent Institute, has shown in his 2006 book, “Depression, War, and Cold War,” just how much the war brought shortages and rationing of consumer goods.

While overall economic output was rising, and the military draft lowered unemployment, the war years were generally not prosperous ones. As for today, we shouldn’t think that fighting a war is the way to restore economic health.

YOU CAN’T TURN BAD TO GOOD The good New Deal policies, like constructing a basic social safety net, made sense on their own terms and would have been desirable in the boom years of the 1920s as well. The bad policies made things worse. Today, that means we should restrict extraordinary measures to the financial sector as much as possible and resist the temptation to “do something” for its own sake.

•

In short, expansionary monetary policy and wartime orders from Europe, not the well-known policies of the New Deal, did the most to make the American economy climb out of the Depression. Our current downturn will end as well someday, and, as in the ’30s, the recovery will probably come for reasons that have little to do with most policy initiatives.
 
"Putting people back to work" in a bunch of government work programs paid for with tax dollars won't help a thing. See, it's a funny thing about government workers: THEY DON'T PAY ANY TAXES. Oh, sure, they get the usual deductions out of their paychecks like everyone else does, but since their ENTIRE paycheck is taxpayer money, they are simply sending a little of it back. Government workers make NO CONTRIBUTIONS whatsoever to the tax coffers, so increasing their numbers without a serious pro-business agenda is economic suicide.

If Barack Obama wants to "put people back to work" and "save the economy" he'll make sure it's private enterprise that thrives by lowering business taxes, limiting costly regulations, keeping energy costs down by drilling for oil while also seeking alternative energy, and keeping the capital gains tax (which represents an investment in private enterprise) as low as it is or lower. If he doesn't do those things, then he either doesn't understand economics or isn't serious about jobs growth and wants a nation of dependent people instead. Government jobs — and bloated social welfare programs — only last as long as private businesses and their employees continue paying taxes.
 
"Putting people back to work" in a bunch of government work programs paid for with tax dollars won't help a thing. See, it's a funny thing about government workers: THEY DON'T PAY ANY TAXES. Oh, sure, they get the usual deductions out of their paychecks like everyone else does, but since their ENTIRE paycheck is taxpayer money, they are simply sending a little of it back. Government workers make NO CONTRIBUTIONS whatsoever to the tax coffers, so increasing their numbers without a serious pro-business agenda is economic suicide.

.


They don't use their entire check to pay taxes - they also use the money to pay their bills, shop in stores, go on vacation, etc.... - you know, the things that keep the economy growing. Personally, I'd rather see the goverment use the money to create jobs for the bridges, roads, schools etc..create jobs so that people can count on an income - when they can count on an income, they don't mind spending - and we, as citizens will have something to show for the money spent. That makes more sense than just sending out the occasional stimulus check, spending trillions in a country that doesn't want us there, and bailing out big companies that can't understand why the taxpayers are upset about the corporate get aways, and private jets.
 
They don't use their entire check to pay taxes - they also use the money to pay their bills, shop in stores, go on vacation, etc.... - you know, the things that keep the economy growing. Personally, I'd rather see the goverment use the money to create jobs for the bridges, roads, schools etc..create jobs so that people can count on an income - when they can count on an income, they don't mind spending - and we, as citizens will have something to show for the money spent. That makes more sense than just sending out the occasional stimulus check, spending trillions in a country that doesn't want us there, and bailing out big companies that can't understand why the taxpayers are upset about the corporate get aways, and private jets.

I think you misunderstood loco4dis, their ENTIRE paycheck is from taxes.
 
They don't use their entire check to pay taxes - they also use the money to pay their bills, shop in stores, go on vacation, etc.... - you know, the things that keep the economy growing. Personally, I'd rather see the goverment use the money to create jobs for the bridges, roads, schools etc..create jobs so that people can count on an income - when they can count on an income, they don't mind spending - and we, as citizens will have something to show for the money spent. That makes more sense than just sending out the occasional stimulus check, spending trillions in a country that doesn't want us there, and bailing out big companies that can't understand why the taxpayers are upset about the corporate get aways, and private jets.

Exactly. These are the things Barack Obama has outlined. Infrastructure projects.

I think you misunderstood loco4dis, their ENTIRE paycheck is from taxes.

Many many many people's paychecks come from taxes.

Do we have any teachers on the boards??? :flower3:

Ooooh, oooh, me me me! I work for the school district.

Where do you think the money comes from to pay your salary if not straight from the government???

The point is...that money will then be fed back into the economy.
 
I think you misunderstood loco4dis, their ENTIRE paycheck is from taxes.

I understood that the entire paycheck comes from taxes. And my entire paycheck comes from my clients.
Some of my clients are goverment workers - so that should increase my business (and therefore the more taxes I pay to the goverment) and next thing you know - the economy is soaring.
I don't know what others here do, but I'm sure that, even if you're not a goverment worker, you are somehow affected by there being more people employed.
I'm just saying I'd prefer they use the money to create jobs here in this country instead of wasting it on an unecessary war, or bailing out big companies so the CEO's can collect their bonus this year.
 


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