Grandparent's Rights

[MAKmom]

I can totally understand how my feelings toward MIL could be perceived this way. There has never been any love lost between us.

She dislikes me every bit as much as I dislike her, to the point of introducing my husband to one of her "projects" with the full hope that the he would leave me for her (alas, my husband chose to merely have a brief affair with her and then dump her, leading her to become a stalker, and eventually bringing about the situation we are in now).

But there's no way to "prove" that either - according to MIL it's all just one amazing coincidence after another.

Anyway, to answer another question upthread - the reason it's going to be an issue is that my husband is in the military, and is likely to be deployed before the year is out, so he won't be around to have visitation, much less take them to see her during it.

Then think about staying married to protect the kids from her. If he's deployed wait it out.

 

[simba928]

Since the divorce happened in PA and the custody order is from PA, the state of PA has all jurisdiction in this case. Did the custody order stipulate if the other parent could leave the state? In some orders if the parent leaves the state, the parent who stays behind gets sole custody and the other gets visitation on holidays and summer vacation. They can also come to PA once or twice a month too. I have never heard of any Grandparent's rights in PA, but I could be wrong. Also how do they handle the 50/50 with ~ 500 miles between the parents during the school year?

It is a very long, complicated story. Basically, she wasn't supposed to leave the state, she wasn't even supposed to leave the county I think without notifying her ex-husband. He didn't want to cause trouble, so he would just drive down as often as possible and didn't talk to a lawyer or anything when it first happened (his stupidity). This was about 10 years ago. About 2 summers ago, he went down with his new fiance and her son. The ex-wife wouldn't let him see the kids, so he got mad and left. Shortly after, their grandmother and I decided to go down to see them (I haven't seen them since 2000 and their grandmother hasn't seen them since before they moved to SC). Their grandmother told the ex-wife that we were considering going down. The ex-wife got mad and asked the grandmother why, all of a sudden, she wanted to see the kids after all these years. The ex-wife has 3 kids with her new husband and for every holiday, the grandmother sent the other 3 kids gifts, even though she has never met the new husband or the 3 kids. The grandmother could not travel alone and the ex-wife knows that. She just felt like arguing. The hasn't been down to see them since then and their grandmother hasn't been able to reach them by phone since then. There are alot of other things in there, but that is the basic story.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Here is one link to that Supreme Court case.
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=000&invol=99-138

To the OP: You really need to know that your lawyer shares your concerns here and will use every legal tool at their disposal to make sure that your kids are protected. You are paying your lawyer, and they should be happy to do this. If not, then....

 

[Wishing on a star]

Simba, I would suppose that grandparents had no rights outside of their state of residence.

If the mother left the state, illegally, then it is up the father to file legal action, and to file for custody. Of course, this many years later, implied consent may hold some weight.

After hearing about Florida, I aways said that if need be, I would move to Florida to protect my child(ren) from grandparents!!!

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

After hearing about Florida, I aways said that if need be, I would move to Florida to protect my child(ren) from grandparents!!!

Whew---I think I willl stay here until the kids are 18.

 

[2sweetangels]

I know grandparent's don't have any legal rights unless the parents are divorced and only then can the grandparents go to court to try to get visitation rights, I have had this fight with my MIL for the past 2 years and DH and I are still married and together, MIL thinks she has rights to my children and can see them whenever the hell she feels like it and I told her it don't work that way, that I am the mother not her and I will let my kids be seen by whoever when I choose to and since I wouldn't let my DD spend the night at her house, she had SIL call the state on me and lie to them about how I beat and neglect my kids that they should be taken from me and given to them, Im sorry I just got all upset when I was reading about grandparents rights, my MIL has out me through hell and back about it.

 

[Marseeya]

It is a very long, complicated story. Basically, she wasn't supposed to leave the state, she wasn't even supposed to leave the county I think without notifying her ex-husband. He didn't want to cause trouble, so he would just drive down as often as possible and didn't talk to a lawyer or anything when it first happened (his stupidity). This was about 10 years ago. About 2 summers ago, he went down with his new fiance and her son. The ex-wife wouldn't let him see the kids, so he got mad and left. Shortly after, their grandmother and I decided to go down to see them (I haven't seen them since 2000 and their grandmother hasn't seen them since before they moved to SC). Their grandmother told the ex-wife that we were considering going down. The ex-wife got mad and asked the grandmother why, all of a sudden, she wanted to see the kids after all these years. The ex-wife has 3 kids with her new husband and for every holiday, the grandmother sent the other 3 kids gifts, even though she has never met the new husband or the 3 kids. The grandmother could not travel alone and the ex-wife knows that. She just felt like arguing. The hasn't been down to see them since then and their grandmother hasn't been able to reach them by phone since then. There are alot of other things in there, but that is the basic story.

Grandparents have no rights in PA. My sister's in-laws were going through something where the mother and father split up and they wanted nothing to do with the grandparents out of spite. The grandparents were dying to see the grandkids, but there was nothing they could do legally. Very sad. They showed up everywhere they could when they knew the kids had little league, soccer, school plays, etc. But they couldn't actually talk to the kids. Every holiday, they'd put notices in the paper, hoping the kids would see.

They've all finally reconciled, but for a few years, those poor kids were kept from their loving grandparents.

 

[aprilgail2]

We had a guy at work go through this not to long ago...his daughter was married and they had a blow out and she was not letting him see the grandkids..he did take her to court and he and his wife won supervised visits at first and then unsupervised after a few months...he got them for about 4 hours on 2 Saturdays a month.

 

[nrsldy]

I am a grandmother raising a DGS. His other grandparents are totally disfunctional. I have looked at case law for the state I live in to see what it says. In the state of MO. all I have to do is let them have some kind of contact with him in a 90 day peroid. It did not say he has to stay the night or spend the weekend.
His father was killed in a car accident when he was 1yo. we ended up in court with the insurance companys. His other GP's told us that they would give us all the insurance money for the child. Well I had already looked up grandparents rights and knew what to tell my lawyer. My lawyer was very surprised that I had did this. Basicly I told them to go fly a kite.
That was a bad year for my DGS. His father died in a car accident in JAN and my daughter died in NOV from cancer. So I have had to deal with them for 11 yrs.
So do some home work and ask alot of questions. Your children need an advocate in you. Good Luck!

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

While said I don't understand how someone who does not support a child in any way and did not spawn them compell someone else for visiting privileges.

It was mom and dad who decided to procreate---and to an extent it was mom who decided to go through with the pregnancy (if that was even a consideration) and it was mom and/or dad who decided to rear the child.

While grandparents are very important to a child when they are growing up--I am not understanding teh logic of compelling a parent forced visitation with said grandparent if grandparent is non-custodial, not the guardian, doesn't rear the child in any way.

What keeps an aunt or an uncle from doing the same thing?

What keeps other relatives from saying--well Johny is .1555% my relative and I should be allowed to see him.

It is rediculous.

when it is a woman's decision to keep her child--other than biological dad....I just don't understand the whole compelled grandparent visitation requirements.

Now while the reasons may or may not be valid--it is a slippery slope. Should I decide one day that I don't want to visit a grandparent--I don't want them going to court telling me that I have to do with my child if I feel it is my child's best interests to limit or remove contact (though it seems I have no worries of that).

While mom and/or dad could be doing something spiteful--I could see a grandparent doing something just as spiteful when they really aren't all that concerned about the child. Just want to gotcha to the parent.

Yes--some of it is well meaning--but compelling by law--I don't agree with.

 

[Goofyzgurl]

Okay, now I see that he is in the military...

Definitely could use this as a reason to request that he only be granted limited visitation rights, and no custody.....

Wow, someone serves their country, and you think this is a good reason to use against a spouse so that they don't get custody and limited visitation rights?

 

[Disney Doll]

Well, I think the concern is that if DH gets custody and then is deployed, does his "custody" rights move to his parents, who, we have been told, are irresponsible when it comes to childcare? The military life tends to be transient, with one spouse away and the other one being the stable spouse who "mans" the homefront, so to speak. If there is a divorce situation, then it would stand to reason that the non-military spouse should be given custody, and the miltary spouse visitation, since one has no idea where the military spouse will be from month to month...can't really schlep your 2 kids to Iraq to live in the tent with you, now can you?

As far as the grandparents rights thing...I'd ask your attorney to show you the state laws, or research them yourself. I'd also document as many things as you can about instances where the grandparents showed poor judgement, including when they were responsible for the direct care of your kids, and also how they may have "facilitated" your husband's extracurricular activities. Granted, the blame for that rests solely on the shoulders of your husband, but the more documentation you have about any inappropriate behavior, the better off you'll be. You need to show a pattern of behavior.

I remember when we had a very poor co-worker on my unit. Called out sick frequently, made many errors, treated patients poorly. At first we tried to help her, offered additional orientation time, had her partner with another nurse for awhile...all those nice things you do to help someone adjust to a new job, a new experience. It was to no avail...the woman had no desire to do anything one iota above what was minimally required of her. So finally, we took to documenting her behavior and giving it to our supervisor. After a while, the documentation showed a "pattern of behavior" that was unacceptable, and she finally got fired.

Different circumstances, but similar idea. "Pattern of behavior" is very important. Because no matter how many times things are called a "coincidence", no one has 50,000 "coincidences" in their life, and any good family court judge will know that.

 

[va32h]

Wow, someone serves their country, and you think this is a good reason to use against a spouse so that they don't get custody and limited visitation rights?

Actually, active-duty military personnel are not allowed to have custody of their minor children - single parents are required to name someone else legal guardian anyway. So I am not concerned about losing custody of my children.

Of course I would not object to my husband having visitation with our children. But just because someone "serves their country" doesn't automatically make them a great parent.

Alcohol abuse, infidelity, and domestic violence are very big problems in the military community.

Believe me, I did not make this decision on a whim.

As for my MIL, my lawyer has assured me that a very specific set of criteria would have to be met before she'd have any chance of winning visitation against my wishes. As long as I allow her to call, write, and invite her to visit the children in our city, she can't argue that I am denying her a relationship with them.

I am willing to do those things - I just don't want to leave her alone with them.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Thank you for defending my comments.

I hope that all works out well for you and your kids in the situation!!!

 

[horseshowmom]

We had a guy at work go through this not to long ago...his daughter was married and they had a blow out and she was not letting him see the grandkids..he did take her to court and he and his wife won supervised visits at first and then unsupervised after a few months...he got them for about 4 hours on 2 Saturdays a month.

The relatives of mine that are in TN who got visitation: There wasn't a divorce in that case either. The grandchildren's parents were still married. In fact, the mother had thrown such fits that their son quit seeing his parents to satisfy her (I think he would "sneak" a visit now and then), so they didn't get to see their grandchildren at all until the court ordered the visitation (unsupervised).

 

[DVC Sadie]

I hate to think that there are so many people who would not like the grandparents being a part of a childs life. All children need to be surrounded by loving, caring and responsible family members in my opinion.

OP I also would have concerns but is there anyway that your MIL could visit with your children in your presence?

 

[jgmklmhem]

I hate to think that there are so many people who would not like the grandparents being a part of a childs life. All children need to be surrounded by loving, caring and responsible family members in my opinion.

OP I also would have concerns but is there anyway that your MIL could visit with your children in your presence?

But see you are making the major assumption that grandparents are loving, caring...and some times more importantly responsible (some probably even most are but it isn't always that cut and dry). My child's safety is more important than whether they see grandma. My MIL may be loving (and that might be debatable) to my girls, but I would never trust her with the safety and mental well being of my girls. My wife would whole heartily agree and based on her childhood doesn't want to risk any of the crap she went through happening to our girls.

 

[va32h]

All children need to be surrounded by loving, caring and responsible family members in my opinion.

I would agree, but really and truly, I am not talking about a loving, caring, responsible person.

I'm really not. If any of you would meet my MIL, I guarantee, you would not want this person around your child.

I can't even go into the bizarre stories she's told, the outrageous lies, the drama she creates, the dangerous things she's done.

I'll be the first to admit that I don't like the woman, but it is most definitely not without reason. I wouldn't keep the kids away to punish her, I genuinely, honestly feel that something horrible or even deadly would happen to them in her care.

 

[KatelynnsAuntie]

I genuinely, honestly feel that something horrible or even deadly would happen to them in her care.

Then don't leave her alone with them. Be there when she visits them. But please do let her spend time with them.

 

[va32h]

But please do let her spend time with them.

See, this is what I am afraid of. Some family court judge, some stranger, to decide that she is entitled to spend time with them.

You just don't know her.

Would you want someone telling your 10 year old about her recovered memories of sexual abuse (which, by the way, are totally false and made up).

Or about her alleged multiple personalities (which don't exist).

Or that grandma is sad because she knows that your mommy doesn't like her - do you know why mommy doesn't like me? Could you ask mommy why she doesn't like me?

Would you let someone bring armloads of gifts to one child, and one item to the other two? How would you handle it when your son asks why grandma only wants his sister to visit? Or why she left him alone in the house while she walked her neighbors dog?

Would you let your mother in law spank your child for being too loud, in your own house, when you are a few feet away? Would you let your MIL call your son a crybaby?

I think I know what is healthy for my own children. This woman is NOT.