Grandparent's Rights

[va32h]

My husband and I are only informally separated at the moment - Texas has no "legal separation" and since we haven't filed for divorce there are no temporary orders in place regarding visitation or anything like that.

But my mother-in-law is already raising holy hell about "her" rights and saying that I have to allow her to see them, I am not going to cut her out of their lives and making vague threats about legal action.

Does anyone have any experience with this? My lawyer says not to worry - as long as I am still legally married, my MIL has no standing to seek her own visitation. And if and when we do get divorced, Texas does not recognize "granparents rights".

But I still worry. There are very good reasons for not letting my MIL be alone with my children. She has a profound lack of good judgement, to put it kindly, and I would genuinely fear for the safety of my children, if they were alone in her care.

 

[jennyl772003]

It depends on the state I think. When my son's bio dad terminated his rights, our lawyer told us WI does not recognize grandparent rights. If a state does, my understanding was that there is a seperate visitation arangement made through the courts.

I would think that your soon to be ex MIL would really need to talk to her son, her best bet would be to see the kids when he has his visitation or whatever.

 

[Chicago526]

If you lawyer says she doesn't have standing, then I wouldn't worry about it.

I don't know why she's worried, she can always see her grandkids when your ex has visitation, right?

 

[LMC]

Well if this is true then her visits would and should be made thru her son when he has visitation with the kids. Sorry but you can't control what he does when it's his visitation as long as it's legal and they are safe.

? My lawyer says not to worry - as long as I am still legally married, my MIL has no standing to seek her own visitation. And if and when we do get divorced, Texas does not recognize "granparents rights".
.

 

[va32h]

Sorry but you can't control what he does when it's his visitation as long as it's legal and they are safe.

That's what scares me, to be honest. Because they wouldn't be safe - unfortunately, I would have to wait for something awful to happen in order to prove that.

There have been plenty of occasions that my MILs poor judgement could have genuinely hurt my children - had I not been there. For example, she thinks car seats are ridiculous, and argued with me about it every time we got into the car.

She believes any sob story that anyone gives her, and has given money to, loaned her car to, and even invited total strangers to stay in her home for months at time. The last time she did this, it was an older man, who simply refused to leave after a few months, and she had to get the police to get him out.

Once, when we let her babysit while we went out, we learned after the fact that she left the under-one year old alone in the bathtub while she talked on the phone, and left my then 4 yo son alone in the house for over 20 minutes, because she promised the neighbors she'd walk their dogs while they were away, and he was afraid of the dogs. If we hadn't called her on her cell, and asked to talk to oldest dd, and had oldest dd tell us that her brother was back at the house - oh my god, I don't know what would have happened.

That is the last time I ever allowed her to be alone with my kids. In fact, after that, even my husband wouldn't allow her to be alone with the kids. However, he has a very hard time standing up to his mother, and I know he would feel guilty about continuing to stand up to her (especially without me there to remind him of all the insane things she's done).

And what's to stop MIL from swearing she'd never do anything else like that again, and some stupid judge from falling for it. OJ Simpson has custody of his children - that alone tells me that anything can happen in family court.

There are times when I honestly think I should just reconcile with my husband to keep his mother away from them.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I do not believe in grandparental rights of that kind.

I am the parent. I am not obligated to allow anyone to interact with my child other than their dad.

However--you can train your children to advise you of certain things--and then file a grievance--perhaps even a restraining order.

In cases such as you describe--document document document and file for sole custody if necessary.

 

[horseshowmom]

I don't remember all of the facts, but I know that I have relatives in Tennessee who did sue to get visitation with their grandchildren. The mother of the children didn't want her children around the grandparents, because they were both deaf and unable to talk.

These two individuals had managed to raise their own children just fine and had a phone for the deaf, etc., and there was no danger to the grandchildren at all. Quite honestly, the mother of the grandchildren wasn't very nice (I only met her once, and it was quite an experience).

I know that they did wind up with court enforced visitation, but that's all I can remember. It was several years ago, and what I heard was through my mother.

Of course, this isn't like your case.

 

[C.Ann]

In this particular case, I agree there is some reason for concern, but under normal circumstances I think grandparent's should have legal rights in terms of visitation and such because I have seen too many bitter ex's (both men and women) use the children as pawns and punish the grandparents for something the "horrible" spouse did..

Whenever possible, children need the love and support of all family members - not just the parents.. Chrildren thrive on love - why deprive them of it?

This case is definitely the exception to the rule though if the grandmother is that irresponsible..

 

[simba928]

While we are on the topic, does anyone know the grandparental rights, if any, in Pennsylvania. Now, our situation is a little unique. The parents are supposed to have 50/50 custody. The kids are currently living in South Carolina with their mom (as far as we know they are still there). The divorce happened in PA and their father is still living here.

Sorry to the OP, don't want to hijack your thread or anything. I just figured everyone here was so knowledgeable that maybe I could get some answers for my grandmother.

 

[mickeyfan2]

Here only rights to see the kids will be when your then ex takes them there on his visitation. Nothing that you can do about it. Make sure to get a statement about not bad mouthing the other parent in the order. Then if MIL does it and DH does not stop it, you can get his visitation altered to being supervised.

 

[KatelynnsAuntie]

under normal circumstances I think grandparent's should have legal rights in terms of visitation and such because I have seen too many bitter ex's (both men and women) use the children as pawns and punish the grandparents for something the "horrible" spouse did..

I absolutely agree with this. And I have lived through it with my parents and my oldest niece (years ago, everything's fine now, but it was awful at the time.)

Of course your case sounds different, but can't they see your kids under supervision?

 

[va32h]

I have seen too many bitter ex's (both men and women) use the children as pawns and punish the grandparents for something the "horrible" spouse did..

I can totally understand how my feelings toward MIL could be perceived this way. There has never been any love lost between us.

She dislikes me every bit as much as I dislike her, to the point of introducing my husband to one of her "projects" with the full hope that the he would leave me for her (alas, my husband chose to merely have a brief affair with her and then dump her, leading her to become a stalker, and eventually bringing about the situation we are in now).

But there's no way to "prove" that either - according to MIL it's all just one amazing coincidence after another.

Anyway, to answer another question upthread - the reason it's going to be an issue is that my husband is in the military, and is likely to be deployed before the year is out, so he won't be around to have visitation, much less take them to see her during it.

 

[C.Ann]

While we are on the topic, does anyone know the grandparental rights, if any, in Pennsylvania. Now, our situation is a little unique. The parents are supposed to have 50/50 custody. The kids are currently living in South Carolina with their mom (as far as we know they are still there). The divorce happened in PA and their father is still living here.

Sorry to the OP, don't want to hijack your thread or anything. I just figured everyone here was so knowledgeable that maybe I could get some answers for my grandmother.

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You might be able to find that info on prairielaw.com

When you get to the site, click on Message Boards and then all of the different areas of law will come up as you scroll down the page..

At one time there was talk of getting a federal ruling on this that would apply to all states, but I don't know what happened in that regard and I sure as heck hope I would never have to find out!

 

[C.Ann]

I can totally understand how my feelings toward MIL could be perceived this way. There has never been any love lost between us.

She dislikes me every bit as much as I dislike her, to the point of introducing my husband to one of her "projects" with the full hope that the he would leave me for her (alas, my husband chose to merely have a brief affair with her and then dump her, leading her to become a stalker, and eventually bringing about the situation we are in now).

But there's no way to "prove" that either - according to MIL it's all just one amazing coincidence after another.

Anyway, to answer another question upthread - the reason it's going to be an issue is that my husband is in the military, and is likely to be deployed before the year is out, so he won't be around to have visitation, much less take them to see her during it.

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I think you misunderstood.. That statement was NOT about you.. Your concerns sound like legitimate ones to me - and quite serious actually..

I was referring to other people.. Sorry if I didn't make that clear..

 

[Wishing on a star]

You really need to know for sure what the law dictates in Texas. I do know that many states do not have clear laws. If I am remembering correctly, one poster mentioned that Florida is one state for sure where they do not recognise 'grandparents rights'.

I would ask your lawyer to give you the actual reference to Texas legal code where grandparents rights, or lack thereof, are dictated.

As other posters mentioned, if your soon-to-be-Ex chooses to take the children and leave them with his parents while he has custody, then there is probably very little that you could do.

What kind of custody arrangement are you working out. It might help if you have custody, and he only has visitation. If it is joint custody, where he has the kids half the time, then for sure they will end up under the inlaws influence and care very often.

I am thinking that you should be documenting everything that has happened with your inlaws. Some of the things that they have done are illegal, and would constitute child endangerment or neglect. If these things are well documented, then you would have just cause to request that the inlaws never be granted unsupervised visits with the children. Don't many child custody/visitation agreements have stipulations like this? (No unauthorized unknown adults residing in the home, etc.. etc...)

If you know your DH has agreed that his parents are not really fit to care for the kids, perhaps you could bring this up in a conversation, maybe even recorded, and then this would be ammunition for your cause. (Okay, I know that recordings are not always admissable, especially in any criminal proceedings, but you might find out that just having this, along with a written sworn statement that on this and such a date in this conversation regarding the kids, your husband said, quote:__________________" could be helpful.)

Man, you don't even want to get me started on grandparents rights!!! Once a person has turned 18 years of age and left home, their rights are OVER!!!" Meddling inlaws and parents are vile enough without giving them any legal encouragment!!!

 

[mickeyfan2]

While we are on the topic, does anyone know the grandparental rights, if any, in Pennsylvania. Now, our situation is a little unique. The parents are supposed to have 50/50 custody. The kids are currently living in South Carolina with their mom (as far as we know they are still there). The divorce happened in PA and their father is still living here.

Sorry to the OP, don't want to hijack your thread or anything. I just figured everyone here was so knowledgeable that maybe I could get some answers for my grandmother.

Since the divorce happened in PA and the custody order is from PA, the state of PA has all jurisdiction in this case. Did the custody order stipulate if the other parent could leave the state? In some orders if the parent leaves the state, the parent who stays behind gets sole custody and the other gets visitation on holidays and summer vacation. They can also come to PA once or twice a month too. I have never heard of any Grandparent's rights in PA, but I could be wrong. Also how do they handle the 50/50 with ~ 500 miles between the parents during the school year?

 

[Wishing on a star]

Okay, now I see that he is in the military...

Definitely could use this as a reason to request that he only be granted limited visitation rights, and no custody.....

 

[Toby'sFriend]

Nothing that you can do about it.

I'm not sure of the exact legal terms but I have a friend who had Standards of Care written into her Child Custody agreement. Things like, children will always be transported in approved car seats, children under the age of ___ will never be left unattended, children will be fed breakfast, dinner, and lunch everyday (my friend actually had to insist on that) -- as well as stuff describing appropriate and inappropriate houseguests can possibly all be negotiated with your Ex.

That way, if they are in his care and he allows MIL unsupervised visitation, he is legally responsible for what she does.

 

[chobie]

There was a Supreme Court case about this Troxel v. Granville based on a law in WA that allowed for grandparents to have visitation. The bottom line was th Court concluded that a parent who provides adequate care for her children must be able to decide with whom her children will associate.

I don't think you have much to worry about. But you may want to inform her that threatneing you with a lawsuit is not a good way to maintain a relationship and does not help the kids.

 

[mickeyfan2]

I'm not sure of the exact legal terms but I have a friend who had Standards of Care written into her Child Custody agreement. Things like, children will always be transported in approved car seats, children under the age of ___ will never be left unattended, children will be fed breakfast, dinner, and lunch everyday (my friend actually had to insist on that) -- as well as stuff describing appropriate and inappropriate houseguests can possibly all be negotiated with your Ex.

That way, if they are in his care and he allows MIL unsupervised visitation, he is legally responsible for what she does.

Excellent idea.


Just to add, since your soon-to-be-ex maybe deployed, you maybe able to get sole custody during the deployment.