Going the full distance during training

[buckeyecinderella]

I could do 24, so I could crawl 2 miles if needed.

You could crawl 6 miles if needed too! I topped out at 20 miles for my marathon training too following the Galloway plan. If running Disney, the last 4 or so miles of the race are quite interesting and fun.

I did not follow Galloway to the letter - no magic miles, only did a 17, 17, and 20 for my longest runs. For the 2 weekday runs, I did try to always get in 3-4 miles regardless of time. I always seemed to be playing with the walk run intervals... All turned out fine.

Repeating same this year only I'm adding in strength training 2x per week and will do four runs some weeks as I will be going for Goofy.

 

[TigerTown]

I am training for my first full Marathon in January and I'm also doing a modified Galloway plan. I still have a few 10K’s and Half Marathon Races this fall so I had to adjust the plan to fit those races in.

You can find my full training plan here but I do plan to get 26 miles in before the full. My theory is that since this is my first full marathon I want to make sure that I can cover the distance and not have to worry about it on race day. That being said, If this wasn't my first time running a full, I would definitely be limiting my training to the 20 Mile max runs.

 

[RnbwSktles]

I am training for my first full Marathon in January and I'm also doing a modified Galloway plan. I still have a few 10K’s and Half Marathon Races this fall so I had to adjust the plan to fit those races in.

You can find my full training plan here but I do plan to get 26 miles in before the full. My theory is that since this is my first full marathon I want to make sure that I can cover the distance and not have to worry about it on race day. That being said, If this wasn't my first time running a full, I would definitely be limiting my training to the 20 Mile max runs.

Interesting training schedule. I don't know what the Kona Chocolate Run is, but it sounds awesome!!

 

[Ariel484]

The 29 mile week is nuts. I am using the "To Finish in the Upright Position" schedule which only goes up to 26, but I've accidentally clicked the wrong one a few times!

I know! I saw that and thought it had to be a typo...but it keeps showing up year after year!

This is what worries me. How do I know what my body can handle until it's too late in the game?

I think I'm going to start with the Galloway plan, but then add in more long runs during the week and adjust the weekend runs as I see fit. I figure if by the time I hit the 11 mile mark in training I don't feel as if I could complete a 1/2 successfully, I will switch to a more Higdon-like approach.

I am running the marathon with a friend who used Higdon for her 1/2 marathon. I gave her a copy of this training schedule and she thought it sounded a lot better to her!

You still have tons of time. I think your long runs will be your best indicator as to how well things are working out for you. Think of them as your dress rehearsals for the main event.

I use the Galloway plan, but I top out at 20-22 miles.

That's probably what I would do too.

You could crawl 6 miles if needed too! I topped out at 20 miles for my marathon training too following the Galloway plan. If running Disney, the last 4 or so miles of the race are quite interesting and fun.

Heck yeah! Hollywood Studios and World Showcase are really great for crowd support.

I did not follow Galloway to the letter - no magic miles, only did a 17, 17, and 20 for my longest runs. For the 2 weekday runs, I did try to always get in 3-4 miles regardless of time. I always seemed to be playing with the walk run intervals... All turned out fine.

Repeating same this year only I'm adding in strength training 2x per week and will do four runs some weeks as I will be going for Goofy.

Haha...you ONLY ran a 17, another 17 and a 20! Marathon runners are funny!

And AMEN on the strength training! It has seriously saved my knees! I do it twice a week and would like to add in a third day, but with running 4 days per week and wanting to have a total rest day I think the only way to do it will be to add it to one of my short-run days.

I am training for my first full Marathon in January and I'm also doing a modified Galloway plan. I still have a few 10Ks and Half Marathon Races this fall so I had to adjust the plan to fit those races in.

You can find my full training plan here but I do plan to get 26 miles in before the full. My theory is that since this is my first full marathon I want to make sure that I can cover the distance and not have to worry about it on race day. That being said, If this wasn't my first time running a full, I would definitely be limiting my training to the 20 Mile max runs.

I really do think that's why Galloway has the 26-miler...just for people that want that mental reassurance. Some day I'll have to listen to him talk at one of the Disney expos because I really am interested in his take on the different training plans.

FWIW...things didn't go quite as planned when I was training for my first marathon (2012 WDW marathon) and my longest long run ended up being 18 miles 5 weeks before race day (couldn't get the 20-miler in 3 weeks before race day due to a blizzard). But I remember completing that 18-miler...and I just KNEW. I knew I was going to finish the marathon. I'm not sure why exactly, because an additional 8.2 miles is nothing to sneeze at...but that confidence was just there all of a sudden. It was weird.

 

[princessbride6205]

I followed the Galloway plan for my first (and only, so far) full marathon. However, I modified all the long runs down a bit to top out at 20. I really liked having the "step back" weeks where the long run was 6-ish miles. My goal was as slow as I needed to go to finish. My knee hates running, so I was doing a brisk walk for 4min/run for 1min. I stuck with his 30-45 min weekday runs, however I do not agree with Galloway that XT is pointless. I walked, did yoga, elliptical machine, etc. So while I didn't trust my knee to run more often than three times a week, I did keep active and develop strength/cardio on non-run days.

For the days where your half marathons are shorter than the distance you are supposed to go, you could do the extra miles as either a warm up or cool down - light jog or walk. One of my coach friends says that you can add up two runs within 24 hours to a long run. You wouldn't want to do that every week, but with a race or two, that could work.

 

[stephielela]

I am trying to work on a combination of Higdon and Galloway... the Galloway plan's long runs seem a bit much to me but Higdon's 18 week plan seem stoo short! This is my first marathon and I'm not in the best shape so I'm also not comfortable with only 3 days of running so I am adding in a 4th day of cross training and shortening the long runs once they get closer. I'm wanting to addin strength training too, if anyone has any good strength workouts I'd love to hear them! I'm a novice to all of this!

 

[TigerTown]

Interesting training schedule. I don't know what the Kona Chocolate Run is, but it sounds awesome!!

Its a local 5K or 10K run here in Plymouth MI that's put on by the Kona Running Company. Here is the description from the website:

"A festive race event brought to you by the Kona Running Company. Join in on the fun & wear a Christmas Holiday or Thanksgiving themed costume! Celebrate the upcoming holidays with Cups of Hot Chocolate, Scones, Chocolate Chip Cookies and premium Chocolate Fountain Fondues along with live music in historic downtown Plymouth!"

Sounds good to me!

 

[Ariel484]

I am trying to work on a combination of Higdon and Galloway... the Galloway plan's long runs seem a bit much to me but Higdon's 18 week plan seem stoo short! This is my first marathon and I'm not in the best shape so I'm also not comfortable with only 3 days of running so I am adding in a 4th day of cross training and shortening the long runs once they get closer. I'm wanting to addin strength training too, if anyone has any good strength workouts I'd love to hear them! I'm a novice to all of this!

Check out Higdon's Novice Supreme program...I used this for my first marathon! http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51143/Marathon-Novice-Supreme-Training-Program

I also used the IronStrength program when I was training for the 2013 marathon and liked it (currently I'm trying more traditional weight lifting to see how that goes). I couldn't do all of the IronStrength sets so I modified it to do 2 sets of 10 or whatever. I did this twice per week and it really helped my knees a lot!
http://www.runnersworld.com/ironstrength

 

[stephielela]

Check out Higdon's Novice Supreme program...I used this for my first marathon! http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51143/Marathon-Novice-Supreme-Training-Program

I also used the IronStrength program when I was training for the 2013 marathon and liked it (currently I'm trying more traditional weight lifting to see how that goes). I couldn't do all of the IronStrength sets so I modified it to do 2 sets of 10 or whatever. I did this twice per week and it really helped my knees a lot!
http://www.runnersworld.com/ironstrength

Thanks for the advice!!! I've actually read your TR's in preparation, so if you ahve any other tips in them I am sure they will be helpful!

 

[RnbwSktles]

Check out Higdon's Novice Supreme program...I used this for my first marathon! http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51143/Marathon-Novice-Supreme-Training-Program

I also used the IronStrength program when I was training for the 2013 marathon and liked it (currently I'm trying more traditional weight lifting to see how that goes). I couldn't do all of the IronStrength sets so I modified it to do 2 sets of 10 or whatever. I did this twice per week and it really helped my knees a lot!
http://www.runnersworld.com/ironstrength

I only just realized that you are the person that pretty much inspired me to do the marathon! Your trip reports were really motivating, and the event just looked like so much fun!

I was reading this comment about the IronStrength program, and I was going to say how I use it too, and then I realized that you are the one that I got it from in the first place!

 

[paxsarah]

I did my first marathon with the Galloway finish plan and did my runs up to 26 miles. I think it was mostly psychological - I was glad to have gone that long in training, but I don't think it was necessary.

For my second marathon (Goofy), I still used Galloway-style intervals but I used the Higdon intermediate 2 plan, mainly for the back-to-back long runs. In the time between my March marathon and starting the Higdon plan for Goofy in August, I built up to 4 days and then 5 days of running per week. Even though a 26 mile training run sounds extreme, the total mileage under the Higdon plan was way higher. If you're doing a 50+ mile training week, you really don't need to go up to 26 miles for a single run.

Here's how I would handle this:

Since I am already doing 5-6 miles, I cut off the first few weeks of the program, but still made it a 29 week schedule, since I liked the idea of having a 6 month training schedule.

I would not cut off the first few weeks of the program, but just do them at the longer distances that you're already doing. Then, once the miles start to increase, around 7 miles or so, jump in on the plan as written. Or, start with weeks 5-8, then repeat 5-8 and continue on with the plan. Then you won't end up with that really early 19 miler.

Its a local 5K or 10K run here in Plymouth MI that's put on by the Kona Running Company. Here is the description from the website:

"A festive race event brought to you by the Kona Running Company. Join in on the fun & wear a Christmas Holiday or Thanksgiving themed costume! Celebrate the upcoming holidays with Cups of Hot Chocolate, Scones, Chocolate Chip Cookies and premium Chocolate Fountain Fondues along with live music in historic downtown Plymouth!"

Sounds good to me!

Hey, I grew up in Plymouth! Interestingly, though, I've never run there.

 

[Ariel484]

Thanks for the advice!!! I've actually read your TR's in preparation, so if you ahve any other tips in them I am sure they will be helpful!

Oh cool...I hope the reports help!

The biggest tip I can give anyone is to find the training plan you want to use - whatever it is that works with your ability and your schedule - and STICK TO IT. Yes, it's a race at Disney but it's still a marathon...you're still tackling 26.2 miles. My biggest motivator was/is always thinking about how disappointed I would be if I was struggling so much through the race(s) that it would take away from my enjoyment of the event itself, the environment, the entertainment, etc. That's what would help get me out the door on those days when I really really really really really didn't want to run.

I only just realized that you are the person that pretty much inspired me to do the marathon! Your trip reports were really motivating, and the event just looked like so much fun!

I was reading this comment about the IronStrength program, and I was going to say how I use it too, and then I realized that you are the one that I got it from in the first place!

Thank you so much! Yeah, I think someone else cursed me for posting that link on the WISH boards way back when... But it works!

For my second marathon (Goofy), I still used Galloway-style intervals but I used the Higdon intermediate 2 plan, mainly for the back-to-back long runs.

This is kind of what I do...I use Higdon's schedule but I do take walk breaks every mile or every 2 miles. Whatever works!

 

[stephielela]

I only just realized that you are the person that pretty much inspired me to do the marathon! Your trip reports were really motivating, and the event just looked like so much fun!

I thought that exact same thing!

Oh cool...I hope the reports help!

The biggest tip I can give anyone is to find the training plan you want to use - whatever it is that works with your ability and your schedule - and STICK TO IT. Yes, it's a race at Disney but it's still a marathon...you're still tackling 26.2 miles. My biggest motivator was/is always thinking about how disappointed I would be if I was struggling so much through the race(s) that it would take away from my enjoyment of the event itself, the environment, the entertainment, etc. That's what would help get me out the door on those days when I really really really really really didn't want to run.

I feel the same way. There are days that I just want to be lazy but then I think about how I will feel if I get swept! That really is my only goal, not get swept!!!

 

[Ariel484]

I thought that exact same thing!

Aw shucks.

I feel the same way. There are days that I just want to be lazy but then I think about how I will feel if I get swept! That really is my only goal, not get swept!!!

Hey, it's a good goal to have! Not out to break any records here!

 

[Calcio]

Ariel484

I'd also like to thank you for your detailed and excellent posts about this past January's Half and Full Marathon, and especially your pictures. I've run the old course lots of times, but the 2013 Full Marathon course was new, and I frankly I wasn't doing well from about mile 16 on.

Your posts have allowed me to re-live what I staggered through, and think ahead about January 2014 during my training.

Many thanks

Craig

 

[Ariel484]

Ariel484

I'd also like to thank you for your detailed and excellent posts about this past January's Half and Full Marathon, and especially your pictures. I've run the old course lots of times, but the 2013 Full Marathon course was new, and I frankly I wasn't doing well from about mile 16 on.

Your posts have allowed me to re-live what I staggered through, and think ahead about January 2014 during my training.

Many thanks

Craig

Craig, thank you so much for such a nice message! I think a lot of us were struggling at mile 16+ ...that was a really tough day with tough conditions. I'm jealous that you got to do the old course many times, I only got to do it once. I hope they switch it back someday.

-Shannon

 

[cewait]

This may have been stated above (I did not read all posts) but wanted to give my thoughts on running full distance in a certain training plan....

For those who know me, you have read that I have not run a training run longer than 16-17 miles since 05.

First, all training plans have their strengths and weaknesses. The plan that has folks running 26 miles on their longest run has a focus on the long run and treats the midweek runs more like maintenance runs. Strength and aerobic gains are almost exclusively from the long run. Thus, there is a need to follow the weekend schedules. This is true most importantly for the first time or near first time marathoner. Once one gets a few races under foot, then they are better positioned to modify a plan.

The mental aspect of running a marathon is huge... for most folks multiple times tougher than the physical side. It can be a little daunting to hit mile 20 on race day. That is a point in the race day where lots of things happen from hitting a glycogen stores wall to feeling the full effects of the day's run to running out of mental tricks to keep things moving forward. Add to this the thought of "You mean I still have 10k to go?" and it can break a newer runner mentally. That is one of the reasons Jeff has folks pushing out to 26 miles.

Other plans have a higher midweek focus and that allows for less long run training miles. While it seems a little counterintuitive, endurance can be gained through hard midweek runs. The obvious gains are strength and speed, but through these gains, endurance is also gained because long run pacing is not as taxing on the aerobic system. THis needs lots of expansion but this is the headline.

There is also a thought that the risk of injury increases with every step beyond 20 miles on a long run. There is some merit to the argument but since we are all an experiment of one, I am not sure that the facts bear this out. Thousands of runners successfully toe the line following plans that have them run 26 miles. There are no studies that I am aware of the look at the numbers of failures from injury in this pool. I used to coach for USAFit and we pushed a 21 mile long run. I know through observation that our ranks got thinner the weeks after the 21 mile run. Frankly, I was injured more often than not after than long run.

I did see a 'Can I just jump on a plan if I am currently running long runs that are 3-5 weeks into the plan" question... There are mixed thoughts on this. I agree with Sarah on backing off and hitting the plan miles rather than continuing at the current distance. As a compromise, try alternating your current long runs with the plans long runs. The plan based long runs will feel like wasted time since you are able to go well past the plan... but 8 or 9 weeks from now the little recovery you find early in the plan will be well appreciated.

Hope this helps

OH - for me personally, I limit long runs to 3-3.5 hours. It comes from my IM training days and I have not moved back to one of the widely used plans. I train on a plan that is very close to one from the Hanson's Brooks Running Project. It has 2-3 hard weekday runs, hard cycle days and long runs that peak out in the equivalent of 16 miles. The thought on the plan is that more long run gains are made on fatigued legs than rested legs. It can be tough if one did have a training issue looking up at your longest run distance and think wow 10 miles to go. This plan is not a first timer plan rather one where you have a great mental tool set in place that can help pull you through the doldrum miles.