Going the full distance during training

[RnbwSktles]

Can anyone give me their advice/opinion on how critical it is to cover the whole race distance during training? I'm doing the marathon, so in this case it's 26 miles (let's just forget the last .2)! Is doing just 20 enough? Will race day give me the excitement and motivation to finish the last 6.2, even if I have to walk?

I am using Galloway's program, but modified slightly to work around other races and because I will be starting at 6 miles and not 3 on the long-runs. Since the 2 half marathons I am doing are 9 and 12 weeks before the marathon, the long-run distances during those weeks are lower than where I am supposed to be (13 miles vs 17-20 miles). I can't decide the best way to work around those and still have enough tapering in between races and also avoiding injury.

Right now I'm thinking something like this, having modified the training so that I am at 19 miles before half marathon #1...

Week 1: 19 miles
Week 2: 5 miles
Week 3: Half marathon 13.1 miles
Week 4: 5 miles
Week 5: 6 miles
Week 6: Half marathon 13.1 miles
Week 7: 6 miles
Week 8: 7 miles
Week 9: 20 miles
Week 10: 6 miles
Week 11: 7 miles
Week 12: 20 miles (maybe I could 22 or 23?)
Week 13: 6 miles
Week 14: 7 miles
Week 15: Marathon

 

[FFigawi]

It's not critical at all. In fact, most training plans will top out at 20 miles. 20 miles at long run pace isn't too far off in time from a full at race pace. For a first-timer, your peak long runs are really about time on your feet as much as they are about mileage. The thing I would question in your modified plan is why you're at 19 miles for your long run so far in advance of your marathon. 15 weeks out is a long time to be hitting your peak distance.

 

[Ariel484]

I ran the WDW Marathon in 2012 and 2013 (2013 was Goofy+5K) and both times I used Hal Higdon's Novice 1 plan, which has you top out at 20 miles. It worked very well for me both years.

Personally I think the only advantage to going the full distance is mental - some people just want to know they can do it before race day. For me, I didn't want to take that much time in a training run and I didn't want to risk injury by going that far...and I wanted my first 26.2 to be crossing the finish line of the marathon, not on some side street in my town.

 

[steph0808]

I topped out at 20, which I think many training plans do, and that was fine for me.

I also think being at 19 miles before half marathon #1 is a little strange. Before my first half marathon, the furthest I had ever run was 11 miles. Being at 19 more than 4 months before your marathon will probably have you peaking too early.

I would also question the really, really short "long runs" that you have (but I have also never followed a Galloway plan).

 

[RnbwSktles]

It's not critical at all. In fact, most training plans will top out at 20 miles. 20 miles at long run pace isn't too far off in time from a full at race pace. For a first-timer, your peak long runs are really about time on your feet as much as they are about mileage. The thing I would question in your modified plan is why you're at 19 miles for your long run so far in advance of your marathon. 15 weeks out is a long time to be hitting your peak distance.

Originally I planned to go all the way up to 26 miles in training, so the 19 is left over from that. It would have gone 19, 23, 26, Marathon, with the same short runs in between.

Since I am starting the training off at 6 miles, instead of 3, the mileage is adding up faster. Is there a mileage range you might recommend I spend more time in to space everything out?

 

[RnbwSktles]

I ran the WDW Marathon in 2012 and 2013 (2013 was Goofy+5K) and both times I used Hal Higdon's Novice 1 plan, which has you top out at 20 miles. It worked very well for me both years.

His plan scares me a bit. I think I might start to feel burnt out, at least mentally, if I have to do such long runs each week. I like the shorter in-between weeks that the Galloway plan has. I assumed the plan was designed that way to help prevent injury as well, but maybe I'm wrong?

Personally I think the only advantage to going the full distance is mental - some people just want to know they can do it before race day. For me, I didn't want to take that much time in a training run and I didn't want to risk injury by going that far...and I wanted my first 26.2 to be crossing the finish line of the marathon, not on some side street in my town.

This is how I am beginning to feel. I am not sure what my average pace will be at this point, but I figure that last 6 miles of training is at least another hour I have to add on to an already long run. I'm already going to be a little bored by this point!

 

[FFigawi]

Originally I planned to go all the way up to 26 miles in training, so the 19 is left over from that. It would have gone 19, 23, 26, Marathon, with the same short runs in between.

Since I am starting the training off at 6 miles, instead of 3, the mileage is adding up faster. Is there a mileage range you might recommend I spend more time in to space everything out?

Well, I've never used a Galloway plan, so I am not sure what to recommend. Are those really short runs part of his plan or are they something you changed when you did you modification? Typically, with a beginner's plan, you'd build up your base for 2 months and then spend 9 weeks ramping up the time and miles, followed by tapering for 3 weeks. Here's what the last 12 weeks of a novice plan can look like:

13, 12, 10, 15, 16, 12, 18, 12, 20, 12, 8, 26.2

 

[BuckeyeBama]

I am also currently on a half marathon plan, and am at 17 miles. I will be at 20 before the half. Running longer distances is by no means necessary. It is a choice of training techniques.

Longer runs increase the likelihood of injury, so run as much as you wish, but be careful.

 

[JennyDrake]

OK, just my 2 cents. Last year at 47 years young I did my first half marathon. I had (only) trained to 10 miles. At mile 10 my hip flexors started to SCREAM--seriously SCREAM. My time fell by 8-10 minutes per mile.

I wished then and now that I had trained to the full distance. I honestly believe my soft tissues just weren't conditioned to the full distance.

 

[FireDancer]

The longest I've run in marathon training is 20 and the plan I'm using now has be topping out at 20 (for two runs).

If I wanted to add total miles to my training I wouldn't worry about adding those miles to my long run. I'd either add in a track workout once a week or every other week or run shorter runs more frequently. If you have a lot of weeks with back to back rest days or cross days I'd add in even a short 2 mile run on one of them.

I can only speak for myself but the increased frequency of running trains me just as much as the increased total miles. I am using Higdon's intermediate plan but altered it. I do a track workout on Thursday two weeks in a row and then take one off. I also do some biking and arrange my long runs around that. I did a hilly 25 mile ride Sunday which is normally my long run day so instead I'm doing my long run for this week when it stops raining tonight (that is if it stops raining tonight).

 

[fashionista311]

If you're trying to hit a certain time goal, it's actually discouraged by most top running coaches (including Peter Pfitzinger, whose advanced marathoning is considered the bible for most of the best runners i know - great read). It's simply too much on your body, and you end up depleting glycogen stores without enough recovery time for your actual race. Pfitzinger recommends no longer than 20-22 miles for long runs, even for those who are looking to be seriously competitive and qualify for the trials!

If you're looking more to "complete" then to "compete" with no specific time goal in mind, there are certainly mental benefits of going 26.2 in training, because you have the comfort that you've already done it in training. But, I think there is something very special about completing 26.2 on race day for the first time. Plus, there's always an injury risk, especially if you are on a lower mileage plan.

Like FireDancer mentioned, I think you're better off adding in more miles during the week. I know i saw huge improvements in my endurance (and alot less dropoff in speed in longer distance runs) when I started adding midweek long runs to my schedule. speed work helps too, but for your first marathon, it's really more about getting the miles in, with speed being secondary. It's a dangerous combination to increase your distance and speedwork at the same time, and obviously for your first marathon, you are definitely increasing your distance.

Now for shorter distance races, including half marathons, it's a completely different ballgame. your body doesn't go through the same physiological aspects as you do in a full marathon (although if you don't have enough endurance, don't fuel right, go out too fast etc you can certainly "bonk" and feel just as miserable as if you are "hitting the wall" in a full....been there, done that ). As long as you have the mileage to support it, absolutely go the full distance, or longer, in training. I will run up to 16 miles in training for a half.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

I would stop at 20 for sure, and get rid of that 19 miler in week 1.

I think the key to having a good race, and I think Jeff would disagree with me on this, is more mileage during the week, and downplaying the long run. It's a good rule of thumb that a long run should be no more than 40% of your week's total mileage.

 

[DOOM1001]

My longest run before the marathon was 18 miles,I didn't really follow any plans as I just know what I can handle.I mixed about 8 long runs outside between 10-18 miles with runs at the gym on the treadmill between 3-7 miles.I did what I could handle meaning if I had a long day at work and didn't want to go for a 5 mile run at the gym I was fine with that,my main objective was to get to the marathon healthy and finish the marathon healthy,check on both.

 

[Ariel484]

His plan scares me a bit. I think I might start to feel burnt out, at least mentally, if I have to do such long runs each week. I like the shorter in-between weeks that the Galloway plan has. I assumed the plan was designed that way to help prevent injury as well, but maybe I'm wrong?

Yeah, I get the scariness of it, but honestly the Galloway marathon plans scare me more. I just cannot fathom doing 26-to-29-mile long runs in training.
ETA: I had to go back and check and make sure I wasn't just making up numbers...and yes, there is indeed a 29-mile long run on the Time Improvement schedule in week 24...!!! http://as1.wdpromedia.com/media/ewwos/pdf/rundisney/training-programs/2014/WDWMarathon14_Time.pdf

When I ran my first longer race (Princess Half in 2011) I did use a Galloway plan, and toward the end I found that 3 runs per week just didn't feel like enough for me. I think I actually started adding in a third 30-minute run at some point and then switched to Higdon after finishing the Princess Half. 4 days per week seems to be my sweet spot, and as I've done more races I've found that, as a PP said, I like having a more even split between the long run and the rest of the runs to make up my weekly mileage. I do think you're right that he designs the plans the way he does because he thinks it's safer, but like a PP said when you get to those super-long runs it takes a toll on your body, your glycogen stores and your recovery time.

The Galloway plans are SO focused on the long runs and the step-back weeks are so extremely short compared to the longer weeks...now that I've tried one of his plans and something different, I just can't see ever using a Galloway plan again.

HOWEVER, I know lots of people use Galloway plans successfully...so just because I or anyone else on this thread use different training plans doesn't mean that Galloway's won't work for you. Only you know what your body and schedule can handle.

This is how I am beginning to feel. I am not sure what my average pace will be at this point, but I figure that last 6 miles of training is at least another hour I have to add on to an already long run. I'm already going to be a little bored by this point!

Oh yeah, I totally get it! I don't take music with me on runs very much any more, but when I do I've started listening to park music loops. It definitely helps keep me in a good frame of mind.

 

[RnbwSktles]

I appreciate all of your advice. It's pretty obvious that there are 2 very different approaches to marathon training!

I am still going to basically follow the Galloway plan, but I will stretch out the mileage increases so that I don't peak too early. I am also going to try to fit longer runs in during the week when I can.

Sorry if I confused anyone with the example schedule I posted. I only took that segment of it so that you could see where in the training schedule the 1/2s fell. For anyone who is unfamiliar with Galloway's plan and is curious, this is the order of his weekend "long runs". The rest of the week is just 30-45 minute runs...

3
4
3
5.5
3
7
4
9
4
11
4
13
4
15
4
17
5
6 (magic mile)
20
6
7 (magic mile)
23
6
7 (magic mile)
26
6
7
Marathon Race Day
3

Since I am already doing 5-6 miles, I cut off the first few weeks of the program, but still made it a 29 week schedule, since I liked the idea of having a 6 month training schedule.

 

[RnbwSktles]

Yeah, I get the scariness of it, but honestly the Galloway marathon plans scare me more. I just cannot fathom doing 26-to-29-mile long runs in training.
ETA: I had to go back and check and make sure I wasn't just making up numbers...and yes, there is indeed a 29-mile long run on the Time Improvement schedule in week 24...!!! http://as1.wdpromedia.com/media/ewwos/pdf/rundisney/training-programs/2014/WDWMarathon14_Time.pdf

The 29 mile week is nuts. I am using the "To Finish in the Upright Position" schedule which only goes up to 26, but I've accidentally clicked the wrong one a few times!

HOWEVER, I know lots of people use Galloway plans successfully...so just because I or anyone else on this thread use different training plans doesn't mean that Galloway's won't work for you. Only you know what your body and schedule can handle.

This is what worries me. How do I know what my body can handle until it's too late in the game?

I think I'm going to start with the Galloway plan, but then add in more long runs during the week and adjust the weekend runs as I see fit. I figure if by the time I hit the 11 mile mark in training I don't feel as if I could complete a 1/2 successfully, I will switch to a more Higdon-like approach.

I am running the marathon with a friend who used Higdon for her 1/2 marathon. I gave her a copy of this training schedule and she thought it sounded a lot better to her!

 

[J3nn78]

I use the Galloway plan, but I top out at 20-22 miles.

 

[ZellyB]

Aha! Here is the thread that was spooking you about using Galloway, OP.

I do think running 29 miles as a training run is nuts and I'm a Galloway fangirl. But, as you mention, that's not the basic plan for someone just looking to complete. My longest run before the marathon last time was 20 miles (well closer to 21 since I made a wrong turn ). I had originally planned to go up to 26 in training but life got in the way. Anyway, this time I'm planning to do my longest at 22-24 since I do know I can complete 26.2. I also think for people who don't do a run/walk method, the idea of going that long in a training run is worrisome because of injury risk and the toll on your body of running that entire distance. In my view, run/walk lessens some of that physical toll and thus makes the longer distances for training runs less depleting.

As I progressed through his program, I did sometimes lengthen the midweek runs beyond his recommendation or I put in an extra run some weeks. Listen to your body and if you feel you need to put in some more miles, you can certainly add some in as you build up.

 

[dburg30]

Yes, I did my 13 mile run on Sunday, and I felt really good all of sunday and monday.. I would be more sore and stiff when I was doing 4 miles . I really do like the run/walk thing. IMO it does help you recover much faster / not be as sore etc then if you were running all the time. But as stated, your mileage may vary. Still not sure if I'll go all the way to 26 or not. I figure if it keeps going well, I may stop at 24 since I would know I could do 24, so I could crawl 2 miles if needed.

 

[Goofierunner]

I use the Galloway plan, but I top out at 20-22 miles.

Yep.

Going 29 miles as a marathon training run is just begging for an injury.