Give me the DVC Point Renting 411

[howardlee2]

Thanks to everyone who has answered questions here!

My understanding of DVC points is that with the points you can book any resort, subject to availability, seven months before your check-in date. However, your points are tied to a home resort where you can reserve as much as eleven months in advance... and only owners with that home resort can book within the 11-7 month window.

So, when someone advertises points for rent as "BLT" points, for example, does that mean that those points can be used for a BLT reservation 11-7 months out, and any other resort 7 months and in?

it doesn't matter what the home resort is, only what is available at the time the renter inquires. Only if a renter is looking more than 7 months in advance will he need to find an owner at that resort

 

[crisi]

Honestly, if I can get a nice deal like $8/pp, I wouldn't mind a spontaneous stay at SSR whatsoever. I know it gets a bad rap as being tucked out in the hinterlands, and having slow bus service to the parks, but I have had nice stays there. It is quiet, and the boats to Downtown Disney were great. I hope they keep that feature for the new Disney Springs.

As for the point avg value... I calculated an average based on the points available for rent on this db two days ago. It came out to $12.30. Some are asking upto $16+ which is ridiculous since the brokers are selling at $14... but whatever.

It isn't ridiculous at all. The people asking $16+ own at GFV. The brokers don't have those points to rent our. Or something else specialty.

The brokers get their points because owners contract with them to act as a middle man. So I fill out David's form with "I have 150 BWV points to rent between DATE and DATE." When he gets a request for BWV, he pings me and the other people who can make that reservation - before seven months, that's just me - after seven months that's everyone. If you are looking for BWV points for F&W and David has no owners between 11 and 7 months at that resort, he says "sorry, I don't have anything available" - but there may be plenty of owners with points renting privately.

(Also, David will charge you more for those resorts, he charges less for SSR, OKW and VAKL - the resorts are large - and more for everything else).

Renting DVC has to supply issues - the rooms aren't always available, especially short notice. And there aren't necessarily enough owners - particularly for high demand resorts at high demand times - looking to rent.

The other problem with your analysis - as a Florida resident, when was the last time you paid that rack rate? Points reservations do not qualify for discounts or "free dining."

 

[rf53]

It isn't ridiculous at all. The people asking $16+ own at GFV. The brokers don't have those points to rent our. Or something else specialty.

The brokers get their points because owners contract with them to act as a middle man. So I fill out David's form with "I have 150 BWV points to rent between DATE and DATE." When he gets a request for BWV, he pings me and the other people who can make that reservation - before seven months, that's just me - after seven months that's everyone. If you are looking for BWV points for F&W and David has no owners between 11 and 7 months at that resort, he says "sorry, I don't have anything available" - but there may be plenty of owners with points renting privately.

(Also, David will charge you more for those resorts, he charges less for SSR, OKW and VAKL - the resorts are large - and more for everything else).

Renting DVC has to supply issues - the rooms aren't always available, especially short notice. And there aren't necessarily enough owners - particularly for high demand resorts at high demand times - looking to rent.

The other problem with your analysis - as a Florida resident, when was the last time you paid that rack rate? Points reservations do not qualify for discounts or "free dining."

OK, but I wouldn't think many are rushing to rent at $16+. At the end of the day, unless you are set on one target, this is a renters market for many reasons. First, no one has to go to Disneyworld... there are many other vacation options. Second, renters have cash options. Third, generally the fact that the owners are renting the points means that for one reason or another they want or need to rent them (brokers and dealers excluded). Let's face it, many people buy time shares thinking it is a great idea, and later on life events, or simply lack of interest overtake the desire to continue using the product before it has expired. For many I'm sure this is a way to cut losses just like one would sell market equities that aren't doing as well as once hoped. Whatever the owner's motivation may be, there seems to be plenty of supply for the flexible... which should be everyone based on my opening premise that no one has to go to Disneyworld.

For me, staying on-property is preferred, but for the most part a resort is a resort. If I am looking to rent, I would by-pass $16+ without giving it a second thought just like I would by-pass a night at the Poly for $700+ and head for a moderate or a value instead.

As for being a Florida resident... yes, I never pay rack-rate. I get what you are saying, but I'm comparing apples to apples. In the end, I know what deals I can get, but I'm trying to make this thread relevant to more people than just Florida residents.

 

[Msmithmd]

OK, but I wouldn't think many are rushing to rent at $16+. At the end of the day, unless you are set on one target, this is a renters market for many reasons. First, no one has to go to Disneyworld... there are many other vacation options. Second, renters have cash options. Third, generally the fact that the owners are renting the points means that for one reason or another they want or need to rent them (brokers and dealers excluded). Let's face it, many people buy time shares thinking it is a great idea, and later on life events, or simply lack of interest overtake the desire to continue using the product before it has expired. For many I'm sure this is a way to cut losses just like one would sell market equities that aren't doing as well as once hoped. Whatever the owner's motivation may be, there seems to be plenty of supply for the flexible... which should be everyone based on my opening premise that no one has to go to Disneyworld. For me, staying on-property is preferred, but for the most part a resort is a resort. If I am looking to rent, I would by-pass $16+ without giving it a second thought just like I would by-pass a night at the Poly for $700+ and head for a moderate or a value instead. As for being a Florida resident... yes, I never pay rack-rate. I get what you are saying, but I'm comparing apples to apples. In the end, I know what deals I can get, but I'm trying to make this thread relevant to more people than just Florida residents.

I think you're conflating the realities of the overall timeshare market, where bargain rentals are frequently found, with DVC a bit too much. Of course one can stay elsewhere- off property or not even going to WDW, but that isn't the comparison. This is the one timeshare that is on property at WDW and DL, and it trades for a premium for that reason.

Sure, you can find something drastically cheaper in Gatlinburg. But the morning commute from there to rope drop at Epcot is pretty painful. And yes, there are dirt cheap lodgings in Kissimmee and Orlando as well. If a given person is content with those, then it would be unreasonable for them to own or rent DVC. But that doesn't stop hundreds of thousands of other people from doing so.

My point is, if you think you're going to be able to frequently get into VGF, BCV, or other high demand bookings using distressed last-minute-before-expiration points, you're just not correct. All available rooms at those places will have been taken months previous, outside of the random stray single night, or fleeting availability on a cancellation. And I don't know of any DVC renters (or brokers) that will offer a waitlist and stalk the website for a prospective renter. They will offer what is available right now, and tell you what isn't.

If you don't think many people are rushing to book certain DVC properties and times of year at $16+ a point, check over the next year and see for yourself how often you are able to rent a points stay at VGF for $12.

Your point about value versus moderate versus deluxe for a price-sensitive buyer is true, but just because one buyer will be content substituting Coronado Springs for the Grand Floridian, does not mean that other buyers would make the same decision.

 

[conandrob240]

Honestly, if I can get a nice deal like $8/pp, I wouldn't mind a spontaneous stay at SSR whatsoever. I know it gets a bad rap as being tucked out in the hinterlands, and having slow bus service to the parks, but I have had nice stays there. It is quiet, and the boats to Downtown Disney were great. I hope they keep that feature for the new Disney Springs.

As for the point avg value... I calculated an average based on the points available for rent on this db two days ago. It came out to $12.30. Some are asking upto $16+ which is ridiculous since the brokers are selling at $14... but whatever.

I agree, I wasn't knocking SSR at all. I like SSR. My point was, I can't remember the last time I saw points of any kind even highly distressed at $8 pp. I think I saw one or two offers for points at $9 over the past few months and they were pts that had to be used by the end of that month or possibly the next month. With some dates, there isn't any availability at all that short out and if there is, it is usually scattered nts at SSR. So, don't expect to see a really viable $9 pp option that would work for most people.

$12-13 pp is the common target rental price now. I still see a number of $11 pp even some $10 but those are usually with restrictions. If you want to book at 11 mths out, $13 is the going rate now.

For high demand resorts that are near I possible to get inside of 11 mths such as AK Club level or Value, Grand Floridian, for example- this resorts are commanding the higher price tag in the $14-16 pp range. Is it worth it? Well, considering you are still paying far less than even Disney discounted rates, yes, it probably is if you really want to stay there.

 

[rf53]

I think you're conflating the realities of the overall timeshare market, where bargain rentals are frequently found, with DVC a bit too much. Of course one can stay elsewhere- off property or not even going to WDW, but that isn't the comparison. This is the one timeshare that is on property at WDW and DL, and it trades for a premium for that reason.

Sure, you can find something drastically cheaper in Gatlinburg. But the morning commute from there to rope drop at Epcot is pretty painful. And yes, there are dirt cheap lodgings in Kissimmee and Orlando as well. If a given person is content with those, then it would be unreasonable for them to own or rent DVC. But that doesn't stop hundreds of thousands of other people from doing so.

My point is, if you think you're going to be able to frequently get into VGF, BCV, or other high demand bookings using distressed last-minute-before-expiration points, you're just not correct. All available rooms at those places will have been taken months previous, outside of the random stray single night, or fleeting availability on a cancellation. And I don't know of any DVC renters (or brokers) that will offer a waitlist and stalk the website for a prospective renter. They will offer what is available right now, and tell you what isn't.

If you don't think many people are rushing to book certain DVC properties and times of year at $16+ a point, check over the next year and see for yourself how often you are able to rent a points stay at VGF for $12.

Your point about value versus moderate versus deluxe for a price-sensitive buyer is true, but just because one buyer will be content substituting Coronado Springs for the Grand Floridian, does not mean that other buyers would make the same decision.

I think you are misreading me completely. As I stated in an earlier post, the average price per point on this board a few days ago was $12.30. If a "non-price sensitive buyer" wishes to pay $16+ bless them. Notwithstanding how "exclusive" or limited DVC resorts are, there is plenty of supply for those who travel off-peak. In fact, by Florida law Disney must keep a number of DVC rooms available for owners, yet they make them available to cash customers often because the owners have not booked the rooms.

I don't think I am going to get into any particular resort on short notice with distressed points. I never said that. What I did say is that I would be fine with SSR in a distressed point situation.

What I am also saying is that DVC owners seem to have different motivations for renting their points, but all of them have one thing in common... the owners are not using the points they purchased and they want the money for something else. Putting the points back on the open market means they are now subject to the market price. The market price seems to be $10-$13, with a few offerings at the lower and higher ends of that scale.

 

[rf53]

I can't remember the last time I saw points of any kind even highly distressed at $8 pp.

Notice I said if I can get a deal at $8 . I wouldn't expect that either although I saw someone advertising at $7.50 the other day on this board... honestly, I didn't read it to see what the catch is on that one.

I think we agree that $9-$11 is a bargain, $12-$13 is standard, and $14-$16+ is broker / high-season, or high-end stuff. At the end of the day, however, the price will be what the market will tolerate.

 

[conandrob240]

You started out quoting $8 as the low end of a range. I would disagree. I think those are one- offs if you even find them anymore and would not be part of a typical range you see. There are far more "reservation wanted" threads than there are "points or reservations available" thread here and else where. And there are usually at least 5-10 responses when someone advertises their points in the $11-13 range so I guess that tells you how in demand they are.

Bottom line,you aren't going to find usable points for rent for less than $9. And you are only going to see above $14 for GF or possibly AK Club level at peak season.

 

[conandrob240]

You are also forgetting that, yes, while Disney keeps available a certain number of DVC villas to sell to the public, the price point for them is FAR, FAR greater than a point rental even at $14pp. So, yes, you CAN get a DVC room through Disney but you'll pay through the nose for it compared to what you'd pay a DVC owner to rent points.

 

[rf53]

You are also forgetting that, yes, while Disney keeps available a certain number of DVC villas to sell to the public, the price point for them is FAR, FAR greater than a point rental even at $14pp. So, yes, you CAN get a DVC room through Disney but you'll pay through the nose for it compared to what you'd pay a DVC owner to rent points.

Quick question to see where you are coming from... Do you rent points or do you offer points for rent?

 

[conandrob240]

I have done both ends of that transaction. Not sure what that has to do with anything?

I think the problem is you have some pre- conceived ideas of how this should work and what rentals should be renting for that don't quite mesh with reality.

$571-696/nt- Grand Floridan villas studio in February
$429-571/nt- Beach club villas studio in February

Even at $15 pp, a DVC rental for the same room would be 1/2 to 1/3 of that price

 

[rf53]

I have done both ends of that transaction. Not sure what that has to do with anything?

I think the problem is you have some pre- conceived ideas of how this should work and what rentals should be renting for that don't quite mesh with reality.

$571-696/nt- Grand Floridan villas studio in February
$429-571/nt- Beach club villas studio in February

Even at $15 pp, a DVC rental for the same room would be 1/2 to 1/3 of that price

I figured you are an owner. No disrespect intended, but your arguments in favor of supporting higher prices for point renting betray that clearly, and they are a bit transparent. It makes sense that you advocate for the value of your equity. On the other side of the coin, as any buyer would, whether I am buying a house, a car, or DVC points, I am out to pay the lowest price possible... and if I research diligently, the market will meet me in the middle. It is what it is. Reality is what the market will pay, and that reality right now is an average of $12.30/pp (at least as of a few days ago). You won't agree with me so why bother? I sincerely hope you get as much as you ask for your points. If nothing else, I am a great supporter of a market economy. Thanks for your input.

 

[Minniesgal]

OK, but I wouldn't think many are rushing to rent at $16+. At the end of the day, unless you are set on one target, this is a renters market for many reasons. First, no one has to go to Disneyworld... there are many other vacation options. Second, renters have cash options. Third, generally the fact that the owners are renting the points means that for one reason or another they want or need to rent them (brokers and dealers excluded). Let's face it, many people buy time shares thinking it is a great idea, and later on life events, or simply lack of interest overtake the desire to continue using the product before it has expired. For many I'm sure this is a way to cut losses just like one would sell market equities that aren't doing as well as once hoped. Whatever the owner's motivation may be, there seems to be plenty of supply for the flexible... which should be everyone based on my opening premise that no one has to go to Disneyworld. For me, staying on-property is preferred, but for the most part a resort is a resort. If I am looking to rent, I would by-pass $16+ without giving it a second thought just like I would by-pass a night at the Poly for $700+ and head for a moderate or a value instead. As for being a Florida resident... yes, I never pay rack-rate. I get what you are saying, but I'm comparing apples to apples. In the end, I know what deals I can get, but I'm trying to make this thread relevant to more people than just Florida residents.

Disagree completely. I rented over 500 points recently at $14 and could have sold them at least 5 times over. Renting is extremely popular

We weren't desperate we had booked at 11 months but work wouldn't get me the time off. We couldn't think of other dates that worked so I listed them. As I had months to rent them I wasn't in a hurry

It is most certainly not a renters market

 

[tasha99]

I figured you are an owner. No disrespect intended, but your arguments in favor of supporting higher prices for point renting betray that clearly, and they are a bit transparent. It makes sense that you advocate for the value of your equity. On the other side of the coin, as any buyer would, whether I am buying a house, a car, or DVC points, I am out to pay the lowest price possible... and if I research diligently, the market will meet me in the middle. It is what it is. Reality is what the market will pay, and that reality right now is an average of $12.30/pp (at least as of a few days ago). You won't agree with me so why bother? I sincerely hope you get as much as you ask for your points. If nothing else, I am a great supporter of a market economy. Thanks for your input.

Picture DVC as a monopoly board. You've got VGF, which is clearly on the last street along with Boardwalk and Park Place. You've got SSR, which is somewhere on the street with Oriental Avenue. By your analysis, you should be able to rent at Boardwalk for Tennessee Avenue prices--because that's the average. Doesn't work that way, though. You'd have to look at the average VGF rental to get a true average, and it wouldn't be 12 per point. VGF is expensive both in number of points and price per point--it's a double whammy that hides how expensive it is. It's worth it to enough people that they can rent for more.

Btw, I'm not knocking SSR at all. It just has more availability and far less demand.

 

[conandrob240]

I figured you are an owner. No disrespect intended, but your arguments in favor of supporting higher prices for point renting betray that clearly, and they are a bit transparent. It makes sense that you advocate for the value of your equity. On the other side of the coin, as any buyer would, whether I am buying a house, a car, or DVC points, I am out to pay the lowest price possible... and if I research diligently, the market will meet me in the middle. It is what it is. Reality is what the market will pay, and that reality right now is an average of $12.30/pp (at least as of a few days ago). You won't agree with me so why bother? I sincerely hope you get as much as you ask for your points. If nothing else, I am a great supporter of a market economy. Thanks for your input.

I am not sure what your beef or even your point is. I rent my points at $12-13. I have people I have been dealing with for years-they are loyal and I keep their price point lower. I am not in the group renting GF for $16+. I usually have many more interested renters than I do points.

I am merely pointing out that you have no idea what you are talking about with regard to DVC and points. You will pay $12-13 pp 90% of the time. At that price, the market MORE than supports it. The market demand is high at that price. On rare occasion, you will find something at $10 pp. If you do, you scramble for it with 20 other people. If you get lucky, you get it.

There are few times a member becomes really desperate. If you give even cursory review of your points, you should almost never find yourself in a distressed position. There are usually other options than losing points.

 

[bellablue2]

op...i think the best 411 will come when you try to book a rental. you'll learn a lot and can come back and tell us all about it.

 

[crisi]

I figured you are an owner. No disrespect intended, but your arguments in favor of supporting higher prices for point renting betray that clearly, and they are a bit transparent. It makes sense that you advocate for the value of your equity. On the other side of the coin, as any buyer would, whether I am buying a house, a car, or DVC points, I am out to pay the lowest price possible... and if I research diligently, the market will meet me in the middle. It is what it is. Reality is what the market will pay, and that reality right now is an average of $12.30/pp (at least as of a few days ago). You won't agree with me so why bother? I sincerely hope you get as much as you ask for your points. If nothing else, I am a great supporter of a market economy. Thanks for your input.

No one is supporting higher point rentals in theory - we are informing you of the reality. Owners CAN get $14 and $16 a point for their ownership - especially those owning certain resorts and planning ahead. They aren't going to let them go for less than $10 unless their is an issue - like they expire in the next few months or they are holding points - simply because a few people do sell distressed points for that much. Not currently.

If the economy crashes again and people are renting points instead of traveling and the supply demand equation changes, pricing will change accordingly. But right now, there are more people looking to rent points than points available.

You think its ridiculous that anyone would get $16 a point - but that is David's seven to eleven month rate at all the resorts except VAKL, SSR and OKW - and he doesn't have enough points to rent out to meet all the demand for his busy business.