Girl Scouts - Privacy Rules

[mickeyboat]

Any GS leaders "in the know" about rules related to changing clothes in groups? My DDs are at a GS day camp this week. Although it is located at a fitness complex, the leaders will not allow the girls to change into and out of their suits in a stall. They insist the girls change all together in the locker area.

DD7 is mortified and refuses to change in front of everyone else. She initially refused to attend the camp again this year until I told her I would talk to the director about the issue. Otherwise, she enjoys the camp immensely. Last year she resorted to changing inside a locker, and wore her suit under her clothes most days.

I emailed the camp director several weeks ago and didn't get a response. I talked to her at drop-off this morning, and she said that there is not enough time to allow all the girls to change in private. Her only option to get privacy is to have someone hold a towel for her. So she has decided to opt out of swimming.

I called the Unit director at Council and reached her cell phone. She was at the camp when I called and backed up the camp director. She also said she had not seen the facilities and assumed there was no good way for the kids to change in private. I disagreed, but really couldn't talk with her at length.

So, does anyone know if there is a GS policy on this issue? I don't generally expect special treatment for my kids in these kinds of situations, but this really rubs me the wrong way.

TIA,
Denae

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Well what is she going to do in Middle School? They have dress out for PE. There are stalls but it cannot accommodate everyone.
Today is the first day she has to dress out so I am waiting to hear about her day.

As far as Privacy Rules for GS, I don't recall anything like that.

Usually it is a "free for all" and not allowing it is really a matter of the leaders thinking of time management instead of your dd would be my guess.

They probably feel if your dd can do it everyone will want to.

 

[java]

Well what is she going to do in Middle School? They have dress out for PE. There are stalls but it cannot accommodate everyone.
Today is the first day she has to dress out so I am waiting to hear about her day.

Have you bought a sports bra for her yet? It was a godsend for my dd during gym changing time.(target sells tiny "bras" too which she tends to prefer- whic h I don't understand because I HATE my bras)

But I can see at 7 wanting a little privacy. Is wearing it all day under her clothes a terrible thing? How long is she at camp?

 

[agnes!]

I'm a former GS Troop Leader & Volunteer. I *get* that the adults want to save time (sheesh, get little girls in the changing-room at my DD's old dance studio and it would take *forever*, but still...) How young are these kids? 5, 6, 7?

This whole "forcing little girls to change in front of each other"... I'm not a big fan of locker rooms & changing in front of others *anyway*, I've always felt odd about it, but that's just me.

I wonder if the camp ever let the girls have privacy if they requested it or if maybe this camp policy is a reaction to too much time being wasted in the changing rooms in the past.

Good luck.
agnes!
PS - Do they make them use the toilet in front of each other too?

 

[kimmikayb]

I don't know of any specific rules. I understand the leader's point. If your daughter insist on changing in a stall, then they have to change the rules for all the girls and there probably isn't enough time for them all to change in private. Most girls are timid about the changing situation at first.

I also wonder with the previous poster....what will your DD do in middle school, high school and college? It just seems to be a fact of growing up and participating in certain things.

 

[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]

Well what is she going to do in Middle School? They have dress out for PE. There are stalls but it cannot accommodate everyone.

I was very self concious in middle school and very active in sports. I went into a bathroom stall and changed unless the locker room was empty. Other girls did too. I was never questioned about it and it never seemed to be an issue. I went to basketball camp every single summer and did the same thing. You would think that GS leaders would understand how this might be an issue for young girls.

To imply that girls need to be nude around one another and adults when there is an alternative solution is being unreasonable, in my opinion.

 

[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]

Is wearing it all day under her clothes a terrible thing? How long is she at camp?

But wouldn't she have to put on dry clothes over a wet bathing suit after she went swimming and wear this for the rest of the day? I don't think that's healthy and it certainly isn't comfortable.

 

[java]

But wouldn't she have to put on dry clothes over a wet bathing suit after she went swimming and wear this for the rest of the day? I don't think that's healthy and it certainly isn't comfortable.

Yes I agree- but if she is going home right after pool time maybe it would be so terrible? But I agree that I wouldn't want to be walking around in a bathing suit all day- just trying to come up with a solution.

 

[Lilogirl]

Personally, I would call the Council. I would ask if there is such a policy and express my concern.

Also, I see no reason why a child should be forced to take their clothes off in public. I would not force my child to give up modesty to "save time".

 

[mickeyboat]

I understand the leader's point, too, but I guess I see this as important enough that they should build in some time during the day to allow the kids to change in private.

She can wear her suit under her clothes, but needs to change out of it afterwards. She does have a suit that looks like shorts and a shirt, though, and it dries quickly, so I wonder if they would allow her to stay in her suit for the rest of the day. I don't think it would be too uncomfortable for her.

I remember facing this when I was growing up, but I was not as self-concious about it as DD7 is. DD8 doesn't have a problem with it. I don't generally have a problem with my kids having to do things they don't want to - I understand it is part of growing up, and I understand that sometimes important and valuable lessons come out of doing unpleasant things. But what is being learned here - that your modesty and privacy is not important? I don't think that is a lesson that needs to be taught.

Denae

 

[mickeyboat]

Personally, I would call the Council. I would ask if there is such a policy and express my concern.

Also, I see no reason why a child should be forced to take their clothes off in public. I would not force my child to give up modesty to "save time".

I called Council. The Director is at the camp and has agreed with the camp director's policy. She said the girls have the option of having someone hold a towel for them and have the option to not swim. I did not have the opportunity to discuss the policy at length, though.

Wouldn't it take as much time for girls to hold towels up for one another as it would to let them change in a stall?

 

[barkley]

I was very self concious in middle school and very active in sports. I went into a bathroom stall and changed unless the locker room was empty. Other girls did too. I was never questioned about it and it never seemed to be an issue. I went to basketball camp every single summer and did the same thing. You would think that GS leaders would understand how this might be an issue for young girls.

To imply that girls need to be nude around one another and adults when there is an alternative solution is being unreasonable, in my opinion.

you're fortunate the schools you went to permitted this. the jr/sr high schools i attended did not. the stalls were strictly restricted to those who needed to 'revlieve' themselves and you could get in trouble if you were found to be using one as a changing room.

i kind of wonder if they don't also have this policy in place because of concerns over the potential for a girl to need help with her swim suit and the leaders not wanting any situation to occur where they would have to enter a stall alone with a child (big no-no with supervision of young children and it also means leaving the rest of the group unsupervised while you're in there-another big no-no). with a group of 7 year olds odds are plenty of them need help untangling/hooking swimsuit straps-if they were permitted to use stalls the leader would have to be going in and out of them repeatedly.

when dd was that age she either wore the suit all day or wore it to camp with a huge t-shirt and shorts over it. to change for swimming she just pulled the stuff off-to change out of the suit she put the shirt over the suit, pulled her arms in and slipped it off, sat down, slipped on her panties and shorts then pulled her arms back out.

 

[cccm]

I think that some at the council level and camp level are not always in tune to the feelings of the girls. I am trying not to paint with a broad brush, this is just based on my experiences to date. They sometimes seem a little harsh and tired.

DD just finished 6 weeks of Day Camp at our local GS Camp. First day she brought her suit. They told them to just wear them to camp after that. She left for camp in her suit and returned from camp in her suit. No problems or issues.

We have been with GS for a while, DD started as a Daisy and is currently in going in to her second year of Juniors. I am her troop leader.

Body image and dealings of the body are the most difficult topics. I would accommodate her, because it is about her body. Now if she said she couldn't sit and eat lunch at a picnic table, well then I wouldn't accommodate her.

Good Luck!

 

[mickeyboat]

when dd was that age she either wore the suit all day or wore it to camp with a huge t-shirt and shorts over it. to change for swimming she just pulled the stuff off-to change out of the suit she put the shirt over the suit, pulled her arms in and slipped it off, sat down, slipped on her panties and shorts then pulled her arms back out.

That is a good option. She knows how to change under a large shirt. She could just carry one of her dad's shirts with her and put it on to change under for swimming. I will ask her if that will satisfy her.

 

[agnes!]

I think that some at the council level and camp level are not always in tune to the feelings of the girls. I am trying not to paint with a broad brush, this is just based on my experiences to date. They sometimes seem a little harsh and tired.

...Body image and dealings of the body are the most difficult topics. I would accommodate her, because it is about her body. Now if she said she couldn't sit and eat lunch at a picnic table, well then I wouldn't accommodate her.

I most definitely agree, especially with the part I bolded. Sometimes the council/camp staff/old-timers can be very initimidating to a new adult volunteer. I *know*.

I like barkley's solution, that is *brilliant*. Gives the adults in the situation what they want *and* shows your DD that her needs are important too. (It is a shame that she is missing having fun in the water with her friends.)
Oversize t-shirts can easily be used for complete privacy.

agnes!

 

[barkley]

That is a good option. She knows how to change under a large shirt. She could just carry one of her dad's shirts with her and put it on to change under for swimming. I will ask her if that will satisfy her.

i took dd to walmart and had her pick out a couple of realy cute large nite shirts (several sizes too big for her) for this purpose (did'nt look like p.j.'s one had tinkerbell and another was mickey or minney). they hung down past her knees so there was plenty of coverage. she ended up using them allot for just a regular bathing suit cover up.

 

[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]

Also, I see no reason why a child should be forced to take their clothes off in public. I would not force my child to give up modesty to "save time".

I agree. I really don't think that anyone can force another person to remove their clothing in a public place in front of other people. It's this girl's body and it's up to her who sees it.

you're fortunate the schools you went to permitted this. the jr/sr high schools i attended did not. the stalls were strictly restricted to those who needed to 'revlieve' themselves and you could get in trouble if you were found to be using one as a changing room.

I don't understand this at all. Why in the world would they care? Also, wouldn't there have to be adults in their watching you get changed in order to "catch" you changing in a stall? Isn't that a little creepy? Also, it was a lot faster for me to grab my clothes and change in a stall then it would have been to try to manuveur out of my clothes so no one saw my body out in the open.

I feel really strongly about this. I couldn't ever imagine forcing a little girl to show off her naked body in front of anybody else if she was not comfortable with it. You think that an organization like Girl Scouts would understand this.

 

[VirtuallyMe]

I'll have to check when I get home... but I do not think this is strictly addressed in "safety wise" so there probably isn't a policy.

There are policies on girls sharing beds and that they are not too- but I don't think it was ever come up for us.

Most of our camps they either changed in bathrooms which were the only place or changed with all the rest of the girls in the room.

Safety Wise is the national safety guidelines for GSUSA- councils use these and must abide to the minimums and can add additional restrictions- but can not use less restrictive "rules"

 

[jodifla]

I think the long tshirt idea is perfect!

 

[sha_lyn]

you're fortunate the schools you went to permitted this. the jr/sr high schools i attended did not. the stalls were strictly restricted to those who needed to 'revlieve' themselves and you could get in trouble if you were found to be using one as a changing room.

i kind of wonder if they don't also have this policy in place because of concerns over the potential for a girl to need help with her swim suit and the leaders not wanting any situation to occur where they would have to enter a stall alone with a child (big no-no with supervision of young children and it also means leaving the rest of the group unsupervised while you're in there-another big no-no). with a group of 7 year olds odds are plenty of them need help untangling/hooking swimsuit straps-if they were permitted to use stalls the leader would have to be going in and out of them repeatedly.

when dd was that age she either wore the suit all day or wore it to camp with a huge t-shirt and shorts over it. to change for swimming she just pulled the stuff off-to change out of the suit she put the shirt over the suit, pulled her arms in and slipped it off, sat down, slipped on her panties and shorts then pulled her arms back out.

I have loaned out my copy of saftywise so I can't look up the official rule right now. However, form what remember, adults are suppose to be in the same room with the girls at all when they change, It came up at a campout when one girl threw up on another girl in the middle of the night. The mom of the one who threw up is one of our leaders (now I am too but wasn't at the time and actually slept through the whole thing because we were in a different tent). She took the girls to shower off and the one girl needed help with her hair.

So anyway we discussed how it was against policy but how could she let the girl go the rest of the weekend with vomit in her hair. She called the girls mom and explained what happened. Of course the mom was 100% OK with her helping.

At day camp we have a large tent for the girls to change in. There were a few girls that would sneak away and use the potapotties, but we weren't suppose to let them. There just wouldn't be enough time to allow all the girls to change in the portapotties and if you make an exception for one, you have to make it for anyone who asks.

I think the large Tshirt is an excellent idea. I know one lady that used to bathe that way when she would go on trail rides that lasted several days with a group that was mostly men.