GFV/VGF Rumors

[disneynutz]

Heard a new rumor today.

With no new info on the GF DVC being offered on the recent webcast and with the changes to DVD/DVC Management, DVD is going do what some other timeshares are doing.

VGF/GFV is going to be a premium DVC resort with some rules and policies different than the other DVC resorts.

I guess it could happen.

Bill

 

[Sammie]

That would explain the guide comment to BWVDreamin about new restrictions.

This would not surprise me and honestly to sell it at the price they want and/or need it would require something like this.

 

[CarolMN]

Can't imagine what those would have to be to justify a purchase at the rumored cost. Maybe park admission will be included with each stay?

 

[lodge]

Park admission included... now THAT's an idea I LIKE!!

 

[RobDoc]

Can't imagine what those would have to be to justify a purchase at the rumored cost. Maybe park admission will be included with each stay?

If that's the case, it is likely to either be for a limited time (like OKW was from 1991-1999) and paid for by DVD ... or a forever deal and paid for in the annual fees by the owners at that resort.

Stay tuned!

 

[BWV Dreamin]

If that's the case, it is likely to either be for a limited time (like OKW was from 1991-1999) and paid for by DVD ... or a forever deal and paid for in the annual fees by the owners at that resort.

Stay tuned!

Doc, did you buy OKW when they gave out free park admission? What would you value that at today's dollar and would it really help to offset the proposed VGF price per point?

 

[Pennyguy23]

bookmarking for later info

 

[RobDoc]

Doc, did you buy OKW when they gave out free park admission? What would you value that at today's dollar and would it really help to offset the proposed VGF price per point?

Yes, we bought in 1993 (wow, has it really been 20 years) and had the Park Admission program thru 12/31/99. I was told by a DVC exec at that time that the program cost DVD $35 each day one of those passes was used. At the time, they were still hand stamped at the turnstyles so there was no electronic data mining like they have access to at this time. $35 was also a discounted rate (although I'd have to check back in some of our old Birnbaums to see the going rates at the time) but it was a costly incentive for DVD compared to the current incentives, but DVC was still a new concept at that time. Early buyers at VB also got the benefit of those passes when they used their points to stay at OKW during those early years but no other resort owners (HH or BWV) had the same incentive. Later, there was a 10% discount on LOS passes offered to DVC members (for those who did not get the free incentive) and even that was discontinued and still not available to those who don't purchase the AP discounted passes.

In today's dollars I would think it would be in the $65 range per each day used. The old program was good for up to 1/2 the occupancy of the villa (2 passes per night for stays in Studios and 1BRs, 4 passes for 2BRs and 6 passes for GVs) and ended on December 31, 1999. I would think that some sort of program like this would be attractive to some buyers - depending on the duration and/or who was ultimately paying. From 1991 - 1995 (the years the program was available as an incentive) DVD paid the freight. If the cost was attractive, it could also be a nice sales incentive even if it came from the annual dues and was a continuing component of ownership at the new resort. (I doubt that would be extended to owners at other resorts staying on points or to GFV owners using their points for stays at other resorts.)

I don't look at this type of incentive the same as $xx off of the current price, but more as a "value-added" incentive in leui of a direct discount incentive. It will be interesting to see how the sales for the new resort is presented - as a "different" type of timeshare (as OKW was originally promoted) or just a continuation of what DVC has become in recent years.

Stay Tuned!

 

[Dean]

Heard a new rumor today.

With no new info on the GF DVC being offered on the recent webcast and with the changes to DVD/DVC Management, DVD is going do what some other timeshares are doing.

VGF/GFV is going to be a premium DVC resort with some rules and policies different than the other DVC resorts.

I guess it could happen.

Bill

I think they're limited on ways to distinguish a new resort if they include it in the club. They'd have to essentially make it a new system with a crossover component or do purchase incentives for the home resort related changes as in the free park passes mentioned. We'll see. If there are such changes, you can bet they will also be linked to some other type of changes, such as a VIP system or further resale restrictions.

 

[lilpooh108]

Dean-- what type of VIP system do you think could be implemented? If thy do that, could they be paving way for a separate class of resorts within DVC? Like a Poly down the road (sidenote, I am not a Poly fan.)

 

[WMorganS]

Dean-- what type of VIP system do you think could be implemented? If thy do that, could they be paving way for a separate class of resorts within DVC? Like a Poly down the road (sidenote, I am not a Poly fan.)

VIP access to restaurants, shows, attractions, and events... I could see them bundling that in while staying at GFV. It does seem like an odd idea, but I can see the value.

Planning is fun for some, but there are plenty of situations that aren't conducive to planning. Club 33 addresses that problem, but WDW doesn't have anything like a club 33 setup and I could imagine some of those ideas being pulled into this.

They could do this by introducing a new category of room that's only available at GFV, or they could use CL at GFV in this way. But who knows.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

OK. I'll bite. GFV and then maybe the Poly, but what next?

I guess what I'm saying would be is such a premier model sustainable over the long haul?

Maybe completely new and unbuilt resorts? I don't know. Sounds like a paradigm shift that may not be practical to me but I'm just thinking out loud and really haven't analyzed it in-depth yet, obviously.

 

[Dean]

Dean-- what type of VIP system do you think could be implemented? If thy do that, could they be paving way for a separate class of resorts within DVC? Like a Poly down the road (sidenote, I am not a Poly fan.)

We've discussed these issues before. I'm not sure that they'll do anything though I'm surprised they didn't around 10-12 years ago. It's much more difficult to do now with a mature system. However, if they did undertake a VIP system I think there are MANY possibilities that could happen, some more likely than others.

• Likely most importantly, they could institute fees for banking, borrowing, transfers and multiple reservations, among other things, and reduce or remove them for VIP members depending on their VIP status.
• Trade points for dues, passes, etc.
• Insider access to many things.
• Preferred wait lists.
• Reduced fees or more access to DCL, ABD, etc.
• dedicated phone number
• BVTC only for VIP
• Early Check in/Late check out
• Other discounts
• Potential upgrades

Before anyone says some of these are not possible, they are ALL taken from what others do already. When most talk about this they basically do so from the idea that current members will keep all they have and that any new system will just be above and beyond. IMO it's not possible to create enough separation without taking away from current members in non contractual areas.

As for a new and parallel system, it depends but I see it as very unlikely as well though Marriott has already done so. The only way this would happen would be if they plan to continue significant expansion because they'd need critical mass for the new system as well. Even if they did, they's have to create an exchange system between the 2 though it would have to favor the new system to a degree. Personally I'm surprised they haven't offered restricted resale buyers the chance to add on and convert they non qualified to qualified.

As for different classes, does it matter, it happens in all aspects of life. I've seen people say they'd never do business with a company that treat's people differently but the reality is that essentially everyone you shop from the grocery store to the car dealership does so. They only way to avoid it is to move to the woods and be completely self sufficient.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

I think Dean just hit the nail on the head in his first paragraph and that is essentially what I was trying to say too. I think Dean (not trying to speak for him, obviously) is talking about a MEMBERS designation and the thread addresses a RESORT thing. I just don't think the resort model is sustainable while the membership levels thing certainly would be and would be much easier, or so it would seem to me.

 

[Dean]

I think Dean just hit the nail on the head in his first paragraph and that is essentially what I was trying to say too. I think Dean (not trying to speak for him, obviously) is talking about a MEMBERS designation and the thread addresses a RESORT thing. I just don't think the resort model is sustainable while the membership levels thing certainly would be and would be much easier, or so it would seem to me.

The way Marriott approached this is they legally created a new timeshare trust fund applicable to new resorts and existing resorts with a significant unsold component. Their trust points have NO home resort which allows them to sell a little here and a little there and every points is not only aimed at the highest demand time (as for DVC) but the highest demand resorts. Club Intrawest and Bluegreen essentially operate the same way. IMO DVC would have been smart to have done theirs as a trust instead of a deed, that way no deed work/recordings are needed after the initial recordings when the resorts are declared. We see people say they'd never buy resale but the reality is that there is a level of separation and a situation where any reasonable person would if they could assuming they still saw DVC as a desirable entity.

 

[mjc2003]

As for a new and parallel system, it depends but I see it as very unlikely as well though Marriott has already done so. The only way this would happen would be if they plan to continue significant expansion because they'd need critical mass for the new system as well.

This right here, in my humble opinion, is the key. Who's going to buy GFV at $175+ and accept that they can't trade into another resort until one is built? The system is simply not dynamic enough; at it's core it's really just 8 resorts with 3 on the periphery. There aren't enough properties, and isolating GFV would be exclusionary, which isn't a great sales mechanism. I think at best we'll see some great perks for initial buy-ins at GFV at an absurd prices. Maybe they'll change the booking window, or maybe they'll throw in park passes, or give everybody a free month of the deluxe dining plan. But they can't really isolate them as a new tier at this point, I simply don't see how they could.

 

[lilpooh108]

This right here, in my humble opinion, is the key. Who's going to buy GFV at $175+ and accept that they can't trade into another resort until one is built? The system is simply not dynamic enough; at it's core it's really just 8 resorts with 3 on the periphery. There aren't enough properties, and isolating GFV would be exclusionary, which isn't a great sales mechanism. I think at best we'll see some great perks for initial buy-ins at GFV at an absurd prices. Maybe they'll change the booking window, or maybe they'll throw in park passes, or give everybody a free month of the deluxe dining plan. But they can't really isolate them as a new tier at this point, I simply don't see how they could.

Completely agree, great point about any new system making GFV seem exclusionary since there are no other resorts and people are all about immediate satisfaction.

Dean - great points about potential perks and exclusive booking categories.
I would think that giving GFV owners additional perks without overhauling the system is the easiest way to differentiate GFV without pissing off the rest of DVC's general population.

I hope DVD isn't drinking their own Kool Aid about the pricing of DVC resorts. I would think that overpricing GFV will cause sales to stagnate if they don't get a good momentum going. There are hundreds of "new" development communities around my area that have been selling as "new" since 2005. The raising of classic resort prices is just a gimmick to pave the way for GFV. Maybe DVD will surprise us all with the initial pricing.

 

[intertile]

This right here, in my humble opinion, is the key. Who's going to buy GFV at $175+ and accept that they can't trade into another resort until one is built? The system is simply not dynamic enough; at it's core it's really just 8 resorts with 3 on the periphery. There aren't enough properties, and isolating GFV would be exclusionary, which isn't a great sales mechanism. I think at best we'll see some great perks for initial buy-ins at GFV at an absurd prices. Maybe they'll change the booking window, or maybe they'll throw in park passes, or give everybody a free month of the deluxe dining plan. But they can't really isolate them as a new tier at this point, I simply don't see how they could.

They could separate GFV into a premier category...allow those purchasing there to book at "Classic" resorts with a point bonus. Like 1 GFV point can be used at an exchange rate of 2 in the classics, and the reverse could be done to "classic" points. All new resorts enter the new premier category. OR they could have GFV allowed to transfer in the "classic" system, but not the reverse. There are a large number of ways that they can separate the categories.

I personally think there will be a combination of perks and restrictions until it sells out. Then they'll drop the perks, as usual.

 

[CarolMN]

....(snip)........I hope DVD isn't drinking their own Kool Aid about the pricing of DVC resorts. I would think that overpricing GFV will cause sales to stagnate if they don't get a good momentum going..........

IMO, there isn't much of a downside for DVD to start out with a relatively high price for the GFV. If necessary to get the level of sales they prefer, they can just increase the incentives/discount offers. Buyers love a discount.

It's a lot easier to decrease or eliminate incentives / discounts than it is to raise prices.

DVD may have trouble selling GFV to me (and maybe most who post here) at the rumored price, but we are not the target market, LOL.

 

[CarolMN]

....(snip)....OR they could have GFV allowed to transfer in the "classic" system, but not the reverse.....

Can't do that unless DVD plans to add "classic" points into a separate system with GFV. Has to be reciprocity. Otherwise, DVC would be guilty of allowing more points than sold at a classic resort to book there. Don't see how that would be legal.

DVD doesn't own all that many points in some of the sold out resorts to add to a separate system. If they did put their "classic" points into a separate system with GFV, they'd want to recover some $$ as a result - probably by sending GFV nights to CRO/DRC to rent out for cash. Plus someone (either GFV owners or DVD) would have to pay to administer a separate reservation system. I don't think this is a path DVD will choose.