Getting back a security deposit...UPDATED post #27

[MaryAnnDVC]

If you don't get it all back because of damage, should they be showing you the damage first?

My mother was in assisted living and passed away. I hadn't heard anything from them since, so contacted them today, and the patient liaison said that there's some question about returning all of the security deposit because of damage to the rug. I cleaned out the apartment in October and didn't notice any, and no one said anything to me since. Someone else is now living there. I don't know (yet) if the rug was just cleaned, replaced or what for that person, but I'm guessing that the damage is no longer there to show me.

The rug had gotten wet on more than one occasion (she lived on the first floor, which at her end was basement-like, with high windows) and smelled musty, and they had to come in with a wet vac and use a dehumidifier for days. Not sure if there was damage from that and if that's what they're talking about, but if it is, it's obviously not our fault. (This director is fairly new, within the last year, and I don't recall when the last wet rug episode was.)

This may turn out to be an easy outcome, if it is from getting wet and they acknowledge that. But I'm curious anyway (I've got two DDs with their own apartments)...do they usually do a walk through, or provide proof of damage as a reason to withhold part or all of a security deposit? I'm listed as her POA, and as the person responsible for her care/finances, and I live down the street and was there almost daily...it's not like they couldn't have reached me.

I can't help wondering if they weren't going to contact me at all about the security deposit, and were waiting until I contacted them.

 

[msjprincess]

I think in most states landlords are required to notify you within 30 days if and why they are keeping the security deposit .

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

It depends on the lease contract. Most have clear stipulations about what constitutes damage that will have to be corrected from the deposit, but few offer a specific way that those damages will be communicated to the lessee. Since she passed, this may simply be an oversight, but I would ask for the records of the damages and associated costs. If they cannot provide them, I would ask for the entire deposit. Small claims court is always an option if they are unreasonable.

 

[usnuzuloose]

Did you do a walk through after it was empty? Unfortunatly they will take it from the security deposit for the carpet cleaning. As owning a carpet cleaning co my husband see it all the time, some are very bad. I would always take pics of everything and clean the carpet and keep the reciept to show the manager. It will be very tough now as you have no idea. Many people want deposits back, but they forget about the carpet. I would talk to the manager and see if there was any professional cleaning done. They would have an invoice for it. Or see who they use for the cleaning and call them and see if they would give you any info. I not sure how much more you can do beyond all this. I hope you get something back. Jo

 

[pixiewings71]

How long was she a resident? I know that the last time I was in a rental if we were there for over 1 year they were not allowed to charge ANYthing for damages.

 

[Darcy03231]

In our state a landlord has 30 days to return the security deposit or send a letter detailing any damages and the cost of repair.

 

[KAMLEM]

It depends on the lease contract. Most have clear stipulations about what constitutes damage that will have to be corrected from the deposit, but few offer a specific way that those damages will be communicated to the lessee.

The lease may not specify it but most states have laws that do. In some states you have to communicate it in writing within a certain amount of time and if you don't the person is entitled to double or triple the amount back.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

I moved her things out over a month ago. She had lived there over 4 years.

I didn't do a walk through. Never occurred to me to, because I didn't anticipate anything being a problem. Actually I had forgotten about the security depost. But prior to her passing, I had talked to the patient liaison about moving her out because it was obvious that she wouldn't be returning to assisted living had she lived (nursing home would've been the next step). I stood there while the patient liaison made a call to I-don't-know-who and was told that I'd get the security deposit back. That's the first I remembered about there being a security deposit. This was before my mother passed away, so there have been other things to deal with. When I called the patient liaison Monday about the security deposit, I found out that she no longer worked there. (She had been there for many years.)

I know that they automatically paint the place between residents. If they also automatically clean the carpet, I would imagine that all of that should be called a "cleaning fee" if they're doing it anyway.

Still waiting to hear back from them.

 

[Tuffcookie]

OP, How much was the security deposit?

I would certainly dispute the withholding of the security deposit.

I agree with the previous poster who mentioned small claims court.

TC

 

[pixiewings71]

After 4 years I definitely think you should receive a full refund. Good luck to you.

 

[barkley]

do you have a copy of her original rental agreement? if so check it. with assisted living places it's not uncommon that the deposit is unrefundable (been the policy at two my mom's lived at). if there's no provision for that then check out the landlord tenant laws in the state, county and city the facility is located in.

and just as a heads up (we had this issue when mil died-she was living in assisted living)-power of attorney ends upon death, so don't be surprised if the facility starts telling you they can only communicate with the executor or "personal representative" (if no probate) of your late mom's estate.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

I don't even remember the amount of the security deposit. I'm sure I've got the paperwork. I'm thinking it's one month, which is $3,000 plus.

We've got the lawyer working on the estate, so if need be, I'll run it by him.

Funny thing is...I just this minute found out my in-laws are going on Friday to look at moving into the same assisted living facility. I will try to keep this whole security deposit thing as pleasant as possible with the place.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

do you have a copy of her original rental agreement? if so check it. with assisted living places it's not uncommon that the deposit is unrefundable (been the policy at two my mom's lived at). if there's no provision for that then check out the landlord tenant laws in the state, county and city the facility is located in.

and just as a heads up (we had this issue when mil died-she was living in assisted living)-power of attorney ends upon death, so don't be surprised if the facility starts telling you they can only communicate with the executor or "personal representative" (if no probate) of your late mom's estate.

The patient liaison, who had been there for years, told me before my mother's death that the security deposit would be refunded. I will have to look at the agreement, when I get my hands on it.

Yes, I found that out about POA ending upon her death...I've become quite educated lately on illness, death, funerals, and wills. I'm also the executrix of her estate, so...still me.

 

[hambirg]

Check your state laws. . .in my state it is 30 days, after that they have to return double the deposit back, and if there is damages they have to sue you separately for those.

If she lived there for 4 yrs, carpet cleaning would be routine, something they have to do anyway and not something they get to withhold out of the security deposit.

Like a PP said, it probably has to go through her estate, but it should be returned in full.

Good luck.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

Thanks for all the info and advice. I'm armed now with some questions and responses and knowledge when I speak to them.

 

[mrspaha]

You didn't mention the amount, and you did say "damages", but I wonder if this was just for professional carpet cleaning.

Both my son and daughter moved out of rented apt/house this past summer, and both got charged for professional carpet cleaning. On my daughter's lease, it clearly stated that all tenants would have the cost of professional carpet cleaning deducted from their deposit. In my son's case, I talked to the property manager, and he told me that they always have the carpets cleaned when tenants move out regardless of how clean they look. So maybe this is common practice that also applies to your situation.

 

[leight]

I'm sorry for your loss.

Keep in mind too that that they cannot in most states charge you for the full replacement value of a carpet if she resided there for a period of time and they did not replace it- it would be 'aged' based on her occupancy. We lived in our last rental just over 3.5 yrs and the carpet was then over 5 yrs old-we were very nervous that they would try to keep our security deposit because our aging golden had had several accidents and there were definately some high traffic/worn areas. They gave us the majority of it except for $150 for some damage to the top of the washing machine (bleach spill had created a weird rust spot). Definately look at the lease but also the laws in your state/city as they pertain to carpet wear. I would even call a local apartment complex and see if they could provide a quote on the state code referencing this- then you could print it off the internet straight from the state site which would provide more ammo.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

You didn't mention the amount, and you did say "damages", but I wonder if this was just for professional carpet cleaning.

Both my son and daughter moved out of rented apt/house this past summer, and both got charged for professional carpet cleaning. On my daughter's lease, it clearly stated that all tenants would have the cost of professional carpet cleaning deducted from their deposit. In my son's case, I talked to the property manager, and he told me that they always have the carpets cleaned when tenants move out regardless of how clean they look. So maybe this is common practice that also applies to your situation.

I had called Monday to talk to the patient liaison, who no longer works there, so I got put through to her replacement's voicemail and said why I was calling. She didn't call me back, so I stopped in today. And she didn't meet with me...had me go into the gift shop and use the phone in there to talk to me from her office.

She said that she had spoken to, I think, the director, who said that the whole thing wouldn't be refunded because of DAMAGE to the carpet. I know of no damage. Doesn't mean there wasn't any, but I cleaned out all her belongings, looked around to be sure I had everything, and didn't notice any "damage".

I'm guessing they DO clean all the carpets when someone moves out, as I know they paint everything. But it seems to me (unless it IS stated in the contract...I've been on here so much, I haven't looked for it ) that that's a cleaning fee. And the original patient liaison, who had worked there for years, didn't mention anything about any policy of automatic deductions for such things. And the new patient liaison specifically said that due to DAMAGE to the carpet, we wouldn't get a full refund.

What's really bothering me now is that:
A) they never contacted me to return the security deposit (I moved her out over a month ago).
B) she didn't return my call on Monday (or Tuesday, or today)...I only spoke to her when I went in there, and then, she didn't even come face to face with me.
C) she didn't call me back today after I spoke with her, like she said she would.

RI state law says a landlord must return the security deposit within 20 days. Now, whether that applies to assisted living facilities, or whatever other technicalities come into play, I don't know.

One thing is...I think you're supposed to give 30 days notice before moving out of the facility, and if not, they can retain the security deposit. Sometimes, people HAVE moved out of there, but mostly, they leave because they've died...no 30 days notice possible.

When I talked to original patient liaison, all I had said was that I was moving my mother out by the end of that current month (this was more or less chit-chat, because I was updating people on my mom's condition), and SHE called someone (the director?) and then told me that under the circumstances (mom at that point, we thought, would be going into a nursing home), they agreed to return the security deposit. And then she passed away.

Technically, does not giving 30 days notice mean no return of the security deposit? Possibly, altho I think there must be some kind of precedence, either way, since dying IS the most common way of leaving there. However, they've said they ARE going to return it...minus rug damage...and if they are, and there's no proven rug damage, then I (as executrix of her estate) want it all.

But like I said...I need to talk to them again, if I can get a hold of them. I think tomorrow I'll just park myself outside someone's office. There's a lot to do with settling an estate, and this is just another annoyance.

 

[disneychrista]

I know, at least in California, they must provide you with reciepts for anything that is paid for by the deposit.

 

[surfgirl]

I'm sorry for your loss.

In my state, we must document and send, in writing, anything withheld from the security deposit. You are NOT allowed to charge for normal wear and tear, so four years in the same apartment would constitute some serious wear and tear.

This may be different for an assisted living facility.

However, the tenant is required, per law, to leave a forwarding address, in writing with the landlord. Mine did not, but I didn't want to lose (as a landlord) on a technicality, so I sent the security deposit and form and all receipts certified mail to the house they rented from me and it was forwarded. I kept the proof that I mailed it.

In my state, it is triple damages to a tenant if the landlord doesn't follow the 30 days. That means tenant automatically gets security deposit x3 back. Case closed.

Of course, you are dealing with different situations... no "notice", were things in writing ? I've heard that many judges are pro-tenant, so it may be worth it to go to small claims court.

good luck.