Funeral Mass Question

[PamOKW]

Originally posted by WhenUwishUponAstar
Since Catholics are not submersed in baptism, does the Christian church recognize this as a baptism and should they accept communion in the Christian church?? Also are they required to be submersed when they decide to join?

I'm not sure how various Christian churches feel about sharing Communion with Catholics. The Catholic, however, should refrain from Communion when a guest in one of these churches. The Catholic Church does recognize Christian baptism in other churches.

Quite a few years ago, a neighbor converted from being a Southern Baptist to being a Roman Catholic. She made special arrangements to be baptized in a swimming pool (on convent grounds) so that her mother, a Baptist, would accept that she had indeed been baptized. (I'm not sure whether the woman had ever been baptized before -- I think not.)

The differences between the Episcopal and Roman Catholic Churches are not that great. I know that Episcopal priests who so desire can become Roman Catholic priests (even if they are married). I'm sure there is probably some additional training and certain circumstances that must be met but the differences must not be insurmountable. The Lutheran Church also came about because of dissatisfaction with practices of the Catholic Church. It also retained many aspects and beliefs that are the same.

As to the Sacraments. They are:

Baptism

Eucharist

Reconciliation

Confirmation

Marriage

Anointing of the Sick

Holy Orders

I'm not sure where exorcism fits in. It is a part of Baptism.

 

[jipsy]

Catholicism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Catholicism, from the Greek katholiko, meaning "general" or "universal", is a religious name applied to two strands of Christianity. In casual usage, when people speak of "Catholics" or "Catholicism," they usually mean adherents of the Roman Catholic Church, in communion with the Pope. The term "Catholic" has been used since the first Christian centuries to describe the one, original church of Christ founded by Christ and the Apostles. As such, many other groups of Christians claim entitlement to the designation "catholic" in the general sense of the term (without the capital-C). These fall into two groups: 1.) those like the Eastern Orthodox and Anglican churches that retain a physical Apostolic Succession from the early church; and 2.) other Christians who believe that they remain spiritual descendants of the Apostles, whilst not retaining organisational descent from the historic church. The Apostles Creed stating "I believe in...the holy catholic church..." is therefore recited in thousands of Eastern Orthodox and Protestant churches each week.

 

[ripleysmom]

"While the requirements can vary from diocese to diocese, many only require that one godparent be a practicing Catholic, but BOTH must be Christian."

I don't believe that that is correct. DH is godfather to his niece and is Jewish. The priest knew DH was jewish and approved it.

 

[kadaten]

Originally posted by WhenUwishUponAstar
All of this talk of communion got me to thinking....

Since Catholics are not submersed in baptism, does the Christian church recognize this as a baptism and should they accept communion in the Christian church?? Also are they required to be submersed when they decide to join?

I'm not asking for practicing RC's per say more in question about a RC that s entertaining the idea of changing to a Christian church.

I know I should probably know the answer to this question but I'm fairly new to church and am learning as fast as I can.

Thanks, in advance for any light you may be able to shed on this topic.

Much love and respect for all of God's people,

Well, first of all, Catholics are Christians already, so they wouldn't be changing to become one!

A Christian is anyone who believes that Jesus Christ is the son of God, the messiah. There are many types/sects/denominations of Christianity...among them Catholic, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Baptist, Mormon, Methodist, etc.... they are ALL Christians!!

As stated in the Nicene creed, which most (all?) Christians subscribe to, "we believe in one Baptism"....so you do not need to be re-Baptized when switching from one branch of Christianity to another....

 

[kadaten]

Originally posted by ripleysmom
"While the requirements can vary from diocese to diocese, many only require that one godparent be a practicing Catholic, but BOTH must be Christian."

I don't believe that that is correct. DH is godfather to his niece and is Jewish. The priest knew DH was jewish and approved it.

Well, there we go again with the variations! The original quote was mine, and I was led to believe (by the Baptism coordinator) that godparents had to be Christian in all dioceses but not necessarily Catholic....one diocese we were in said at least one Catholic but both had to be Christian....the other said both Catholic. Hadn't needed to ask about non-Christians, but in the 2 we inquired about baptizing the kids, those were the requirements.

Glad they let your DH have the honor....he is obviously highly thought of by his godchild's parents And that, perhaps, is most important of all, that it be someone who the parents believe will set a good example!

 

[Deb in IA]

In regards to the sacraments of the Episcopal Church, here's what I found on Encarta:


"Like the Church of England, however, it believes only two sacraments, baptism and the Eucharist, were ordained by Christ; the other five sacraments, although honored, are not universally accepted as divinely instituted in the New Testament. The church as a whole accepts the standards of worship set forth in the revised Book of Common Prayer, but the separate congregations are permitted wide latitude in the observance of ceremonial. The church supports many religious orders of men and women."

Ref: http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761551507/Episcopal_Church.html


And here is what the official ECA (Episcopal Church of America) website says about "An Explanation and Meaning of the Pattern of the Holy Eucharist":

"LITURGY OF THE HOLY COMMUNION

the bringing up of gifts

praise to God for creation and thanksgiving for saving deeds

a recitation of the Words of the Institution, which is Our Lord's command to do his memorial, presenting and identifying bread and wine as visible symbols or representations of his body given for us and of his blood poured out for us

a remembrance of his passion, death, resurrection and ascension, in words together with

an offering of the same representative gifts of bread and wine to God, the Father, whose acceptance of our praises and material thank offering we ask for in the name of and presence of Jesus Christ, our Mediator, Advocate and Savoir

a supplication to God to send the Holy Spirit upon the gifts to make Jesus' sacrifice present and effective now a petition that we, who are giving ourselves to God through the consecrated elements, be made acceptable and be blessed by the same Holy Spirit whom God sends upon the bread and wine to be the sacramental Body and Blood of Christ

union of the participants with Christ and each other in communion, which is a sharing in the body of Christ

our formation as the Spirit-filled priestly people, the Body of Christ, consecrated for God's service

a thanksgiving to God for faithfulness to the divine promise made unto Christ in the covenant to accept us as living members of Christ and co-heirs of his Kingdom

a petition for God's grace in order to be faithful witnesses of Christ as his ambassadors and co-workers to a world broken by sin

(blessing) and dismissal "

Ref: http://www.ecusa.anglican.org/20966_11775_ENG_HTM.htm?menupage=11758



I can't find where it specifically states the Bread and the Wine become the Body and Blood of Christ, but it DOES say "the same Holy Spirit whom God sends upon the bread and wine to be the sacramental Body and Blood of Christ ".

Also, when the priest gives the Host, s/he says, "The Body of Christ, the Bread of Heaven", and the wine is given with this, "The Blood of Christ, the Cup of Salvation".

 

[suzannen]

Originally posted by kadaten
As stated in the Nicene creed, which most (all?) Christians subscribe to, "we believe in one Baptism"....so you do not need to be re-Baptized when switching from one branch of Christianity to another....

kadaten, I personally agree with you, but the Southern Baptist church I grew up insisted on a "total immersion" baptism (think John the Baptist baptizing Jesus), so if you had been "sprinkled on the forehead" in the Catholic Church, it did not count in that church and as an adult you had to go through a total immersion ceremony.

Also, regarding all of the discussions on Jesus and the last supper with the "bread" and "wine". The bread, of course, was unleavened since it was Passover and the Last Supper was a Jewish Seder so it wasn't bread in the traditional since; and also my Baptist Church would only serve grape juice during Communion since drinking wine was considered a sin (although it was okay for Jesus).

Without any judgment on any religion, I have always found these religious traditions and their history to be fascinating..

 

[bananiem]

Our priest announces at masses where there are non-members (First Communion, etc.) that all may take Holy Communion. He says in our diocese the priests feel "who are we to judge who can come to the table?" Therefore all are welcome.
My in-laws know they are welcome but still choose not to. But it is an option for them.
Please accept my sympathies.

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Originally posted by 6_Time_Momma
I haven't read the Book of Common Prayer, but everything I have read on the Episopal Church states that believe He is spiritually present in the Bread, but not physically present. Do you have anything (link-wise) that states otherwise? (Disclaimer: I am not asking to be a smart-alec.....genuinely curious since everything I have seen has said otherwise )

"Take eat, this is MY Body which is given for you, do this in remberance of ME" "Take Drink, this is my blood which is given for you, do this in remberance of ME". We don't believe it is HIS spirit, we believe it is HIS Body and HIS Blood.
I remember the Church before the they changed in the mid 70's.
There was the High Church and the Low Church. I went to the High Church and on special days you would get a VERY high mass spoken in, get this, Latin. I loved those High Masses.

As to a link, I am sorry I cannot provide one. I am going on the way I was taught.

 

[WDWLVR]

Not here to judge anyone in any way. Just here to offer a link which may answer some questions.

Who Can Receive Communion?

To the OP - my sympathies.

 

[ScarlettO]

Originally posted by ripleysmom
"While the requirements can vary from diocese to diocese, many only require that one godparent be a practicing Catholic, but BOTH must be Christian."

I don't believe that that is correct. DH is godfather to his niece and is Jewish. The priest knew DH was jewish and approved it.

Well that is odd. The original purpose of godparents is, if something happened to the parents, the godparents would step in to instruct the child in the Catholic Faith. How would a Jewish person do that?

 

[BHFan25]

As a baby I was sprinkled in the Methodist Church. When we moved and had to find a new church, we changed denominations and attended a Baptist Church. I was 10 years old when I accepted Christ as my savior and had to be baptistized to be a member of a Baptist Church. They knew I'd been sprinkled as a baby but I was told that I would have to be fully immersed. Since I didn't remember it as a baby and didn't chose it for myself (it was my parents decision back then) I was OK with this. I think, though, that one has to be immersed to be a member of a Baptist church.

In all the Baptist church I have visited they serve grape juice instead of wine. I have never been told it was a sin to drink wine though. I have been told that it is a sin to be "drunk with wine". There is a difference. Drinking is frowned upon in the Baptist Church. I think so many people have been touched by alcoholism that this is where this comes from. So, I think they feel it is best left untouched. However, I don't think Baptists consider drinking wine to be a sin.
That being said, there are always a few who may teach such. My preacher perhaps is one of them. We have had our 'talks' about this. LOL I feel that if he thinks it is personally wrong for him to have a glass of wine than that is fine and I'd call it personal conviction or something--just don't walk around telling someone else it is a sin--and if you do, show me where it says this in the Bible.

 

[pw2pp]

Wow, haven't been back to this thread in a while.
I should clarify, when I made the comment, "above all the other's attitude" about Catholics, I was speaking more of what I have encountered PERSONALLY as a result of my no longer attending the Catholic Church (from family members, acquaintences, etc...).
My Mother was not too happy about my attending a non-denominational church...... Talked about "tradition" and the Catholic Church being the "original" church, etc....
with the way she responded, you would have thought I had become an Atheist.
Also, when I had my daughter, a co-worker's husband wanted to know if I had yet had her Baptized. When I explained that although I was raised Catholic, we no longer attend the Catholic Church and instead we have our children "dedicated", etc....
He responded by saying, "I am VERY concerned" - I guess he figured if something happened to my baby, she would go straight to hell or something
***** Anyway, I want to clarify that these are things that I encountered PERSONALLY from people and I should not have said it the way that I did, because after re-reading, I can see how it might be offensive to people. ******
Also, I am definitely NOT of the belief that my church is somehow better than the Catholic church (or any other church), it is just that I feel that this is where I belong (not affiliated with a religion, just a "generic" Christian.

 

[cruisnfamily]

Originally posted by ripleysmom
"While the requirements can vary from diocese to diocese, many only require that one godparent be a practicing Catholic, but BOTH must be Christian."

I don't believe that that is correct. DH is godfather to his niece and is Jewish. The priest knew DH was jewish and approved it.

My DD's godfather is also Jewish and the priest knew and approved. Her godmother is a Catholic, however. The priest said at least 1 had to be Catholic and the other must be "faithful in their own faith" if not Catholic.

 

[cruisnfamily]

Originally posted by ScarlettO
Well that is odd. The original purpose of godparents is, if something happened to the parents, the godparents would step in to instruct the child in the Catholic Faith. How would a Jewish person do that?

Why couldn't a Jewish person do that?

 

[kadaten]

Originally posted by BHFan25
In all the Baptist church I have visited they serve grape juice instead of wine. I have never been told it was a sin to drink wine though. I have been told that it is a sin to be "drunk with wine". There is a difference. Drinking is frowned upon in the Baptist Church. I think so many people have been touched by alcoholism that this is where this comes from. So, I think they feel it is best left untouched. However, I don't think Baptists consider drinking wine to be a sin.
That being said, there are always a few who may teach such. My preacher perhaps is one of them. We have had our 'talks' about this. LOL I feel that if he thinks it is personally wrong for him to have a glass of wine than that is fine and I'd call it personal conviction or something--just don't walk around telling someone else it is a sin--and if you do, show me where it says this in the Bible.

A bit off topic, but wanted to respond to this part. I grew up Catholic in the Bible belt south where Catholics account for a whopping 3% of the population...LOTS of Baptists around, though. My neighbors who were Southern Baptists (a distinct group from regular Baptists) were indeed taught that drinking any alcohol whatsoever was a sin....as was wearing make-up, dancing, women wearing pants, and women showing their knees (oh the horror!) among other things (some music, but never got a distinction on what was sinful and what was not). Since I'm not a Southern Baptist, I have no idea whether this is Convention-wide beliefs (Southern Baptist Convention is the governing body of that denomination) or whether it was just that particular preacher...

We also had a religious college that forbade men and women from touching, men and women from being alone together in couples, didn't allow men and women to go to the beach or anywhere else where they'd be seen in swim attire together, etc. in addition to the prohibitions above. Students there had to sign a pledge to abide by their rules not only at college, but also at home, during the summers, etc. Just don't think I could do that... but some people are looking for that type of environment, so I guess I'm glad that they have somewhere that meets their needs.

 

[BHFan25]

As a Southern Baptist, I'll sit here and hope that it was the preacher's stance on all those things. LOL

Of course, I am not the world's best Southern Baptist as you all know they are boycotting Disney and, well, I disagree with that one... And so must our preacher and I am helping his family plan a trip there very soon!

I think what you have encountered are people's person choices on these things. (drinking, dancing, make-up, showing knees LOL)
While there are people around here who frown on some/all of those things, those haven't been taught as sinful in any of the churches I have attended. My MIL is SB and I guarantee you she thinks drinking is wrong. But those are man-made rules and not Biblical as far as I have ever searched and found. I may be worse off than I thought but I never follow a man-made rule unless I see it in the Bible or personally feel convicted of it.

Interesting thread though.

 

[WhenUwishUponAstar]

The main reason I asked about the submersion aspect of baptism is before we take communion in my church (which is a Christian non-denominational) they say we invite all of those who are baptized believers in Christ to join at his table... Maybe I didn't ask my question right.....I mean I know they accept them as Christians but I wondered if they count the sprinkle as baptism. I see by some of the replies that it must vary by denomination.

 

[sha_lyn]

My neighbors who were Southern Baptists (a distinct group from regular Baptists) were indeed taught that drinking any alcohol whatsoever was a sin....as was wearing make-up, dancing, women wearing pants, and women showing their knees (oh the horror!) among other things (some music, but never got a distinction on what was sinful and what was not). Since I'm not a Southern Baptist, I have no idea whether this is Convention-wide beliefs (Southern Baptist Convention is the governing body of that denomination) or whether it was just that particular preacher...

Are you certain they were Southern Baptist and not Fundamental,Primitive, Rock of Ages or another type of Baptist? Other than the drinking (which is a sin in the eye of most southern Baptist preachers) non of that goes along with anything I was taught in any of the SB churches I attended. It does however sound like some of the other Baptist Churches I listed.

 

[sha_lyn]

I mean I know they accept them as Christians but I wondered if they count the sprinkle as baptism. I see by some of the replies that it must vary by denomination.

In any of the Baptist churches I have attended (Southern, fundemental,and Primative) they would require that you have been baptised by submersion in any Baptist Church. One I believe required that you be a member there, either by Baptisim or by "moving your letter" to that church.