Ft. Wilderness Cabins becoming DVC?

[MerlinandtheMouse]

Do we even know if Disney is planning to offer 11 month booking at multiple resorts under the trust? We may be jumping the gun. Disney may stick to their current system to keep it simple as there seems to be a resort and master trust.

That’s true we’re definitely speculating hard about all this. But if they stick to the current system with 1 home resort 11mo priority, the rest at 7 mos, then there really won’t be any advantage for buyers in this new system. But maybe they’re not trying to give any specific advantage and they’re just trying to change the internal mechanics to give more control to DVD.

 

[kdm31091]

With the cost of DVC likely to be even higher in 2042 I highly doubt Disney will want to try selling BCV, BWV, and BRV all over again all at the same time starting from scratch. This may be a way around that.

 

[Hubalorian]

Does a non deeded timeshare allow DVD more advantages given the uncertainty around their standing, politically, with the state of Florida? Does a trust system protect them more since it is not a deeded investment?

 

[cookc123]

That’s true we’re definitely speculating hard about all this. But if they stick to the current system with 1 home resort 11mo priority, the rest at 7 mos, then there really won’t be any advantage for buyers in this new system. But maybe they’re not trying to give any specific advantage and they’re just trying to change the internal mechanics to give more control to DVD.

I think this is the plan now...

 

[hawkfin101]

Any possibility the Trust will be more of a moderate level DVC? There’s always been speculation about DVC adding on at some moderate level resorts; maybe this is a way to add on without “devaluing” the deluxe resorts.

 

[DVCPAT]

If a trust allows non home resort members to book at 11 months, booking the cabins at Christmas becomes more competitive with walking and non home resort bookings, correct ?

 

[CarolynFH]

What's interesting about the Cabins is they don't tend to have a long shelf life.

According to Orlando Weekly, the original FW Cabins were placed there between 1997 and 2000. Were all updated in 2016 and the original cabins sold off. Now, we have DVC replacing the current cabins with newer ones after less than 8 years.

How do you sell a deed to something you plan on replacing every 15/20 or so years?

https://www.orlandoweekly.com/arts/...-fort-wilderness-campground-for-20000-2515233

I'm not sure that timeline is correct. We stayed in a cabin (manufactured home) on our first trip, March 1994, and my understanding is those were replaced by the current cabins (manufactured homes) in 1997, making the current ones 25 years old and in need of replacement. I think I've seen a timeline on the Camping forum and will look there, and I'll also hope that @bama_ed might come help me here.

 

[DonMacGregor]

If Disney goes this route, the trust will still be limited to how many points the trust has in it. In the case of CCV, this is a sold out resort so they can only add what they get through natural saturation (foreclosure, rofr, ect…).

I think CCV was simply used as an example of a resort with very popular room categories (BWV Boardwalk View could be another, or AKV value rooms) that, if introduced into the trust, either as a partially sold-out resort (like RR or AUL), or a future new resort (Poly tower (?), etc.), could introduce an imbalance if all trust members have equal footing to book within the same reservation windows.

I guess the hypothetical would be what if, in an alternate Marvel universe, they were actually building Boardwalk tomorrow, and introducing a resort with a hugely popular room category, but everyone who "currently" owns at CFW also has the same 11-month booking advantage to grab those sweet sweet boardwalk views as all of the new Boardwalk owners.

 

[Sandisw]

Not sure if I am phrasing this very well. Hopefully someone understands what I am asking...

If the trust has home resort booking privileges across all trust properties, will the dues be the same for all trust owners?
Example, in 2042 Disney could roll VB and HH into the trust. Insurance rates from a couple storms made dues rise rapidly for those resorts. Might the trust owners face a painful surprise in the future with new properties added?

When someone sells CFW, it loses the home resort booking window to other properties, so it should be paying dues strictly based on it's home resort. In theory, the dues someone pays could change a fair amount (possibly up or down) when the contract changes hands.

Anyone know how other timeshares have handled similar transitions to trusts and what happens if the trust adds an expensive dues resort?

It’s hard to answer with only one property, but I will speculate that each owner will pay for the annual dues for the trust property that they have bought their interest in.

The home resort priority booking rules are just rules that are set up. The only thing we get is one month outside of others, and so far, that is what CFWis guaranteed.

I think when more trust property is activated into the trust, it will come with its own plan and therefore, owners who buy into that, will then pay for that.

The booking at more than one, I think will come into play with the DVC membership agreement in which each resort plan allows others to book it and vice versa. Basically, each gives the other access at the same time.

I relate it akin to you and I both agreeing to share our log in info and each giving each other permission to use our home resort points when they want.

Another option could be that they give each owner in a resort use plan their one month, give other trust owners booking at say 10 months, and then the rest through BVTC at 7 months or less.

Of course, they could leave it as it currently works for booking and trust plan or not, booking rules are exactly the same.

 

[PrincessKL]

My head is spinning from reading this thread and this message has me thinking. It does sound appealing and great marketing for DVC. Sales people have always said - Vacation at all the resorts! But only other than yours at 7 months if you can get in and if your points aren't restricted. So they will say the same - but now, you don't have to wait till 7 months. You can book all these resorts and not have to wait! BUT...isn't the mechanics (or devils in the details) since the same demand for many of the resorts will still outstrip the supply? Let's pretend CCV is in the trust - doesn't everyone want those studios at the holidays? It sounds good, and I do see some upsides, but it still doesn't solve (in the end, to most buyers) the demand for popular places - it actually increases pressure for them.

Yes I think it will increase pressure for those popular rooms at popular times in the trust. But that is still less people fighting for a room than currently at 7-months. I like the game of booking at 8 am exactly at 7-months to compete with people and I waitlist and check availability constantly after 7-month window to see what opens up. I am flexible in when I can travel in the summer so I can always decide when to go according to availability. The trust product just made it easier for me to plan my vacation as I used to compete with people at 7-months and now I would be competing with less people at 11-months and then have another opportunity to compete with more people at 7-months.

This is all based on speculations of the new booking rules for resorts in the trust though.

 

[KimMcGowan]

It’s hard to answer with only one property, but I will speculate that each owner will pay for the annual dues for the trust property that they have bought their interest in.

If that is the case why would anyone ever buy the resorts with the more expensive dues? Everyone would just look at yearly dues and buy the very cheapest resort in the trust because they can book anywhere (in the trust), right?

 

[Sandisw]

If that is the case why would anyone ever buy the resorts with the more expensive dues? Everyone would just look at yearly dues and buy the very cheapest resort in the trust because they can book anywhere (in the trust), right?

It would be based on what is offered for sale but it’s a good point…but, the way the annual dues are set up in the language are a little different then when one is as owner.

So, it could be that it ends up the same in some way…because you are paying dues to use the trust property.

Maybe It sets up that you pay your dues based on property, but part of that includes an exchange fee that ends up equalizing them?

 

[maui22]

If that is the case why would anyone ever buy the resorts with the more expensive dues? Everyone would just look at yearly dues and buy the very cheapest resort in the trust because they can book anywhere (in the trust), right?

Great question.

There will also be the issue of buying the resort with the best incentives/pricing. Example, say they add part of AUL to trust. It is possible CFW with incentives could be cheaper than AUL with incentives, plus CFW dues could be cheaper than AUL dues. Only benefit to buying AUL would be if something thinks it's dues will rise slower than CFW or they think resale would be better.

@Sandisw might be onto something about them having a home resort booking window advantage within the trust.

 

[PrincessKL]

It would be based on what is offered for sale but it’s a good point…but, the way the annual dues are set up in the language are a little different then when one is as owner.

So, it could be that it ends up the same in some way…because you are paying dues to use the trust property.

Maybe It sets up that you pay your dues based on property, but part of that includes an exchange fee that ends up equalizing them?

Maybe it would be like VDH that you have to pay extra when staying at a resort or get a refund based on the differences in dues and how many points you used.

 

[CarolynFH]

Not sure if I am phrasing this very well. Hopefully someone understands what I am asking...

If the trust has home resort booking privileges across all trust properties, will the dues be the same for all trust owners?
Example, in 2042 Disney could roll VB and HH into the trust. Insurance rates from a couple storms made dues rise rapidly for those resorts. Might the trust owners face a painful surprise in the future with new properties added?

When someone sells CFW, it loses the home resort booking window to other properties, so it should be paying dues strictly based on it's home resort. In theory, the dues someone pays could change a fair amount (possibly up or down) when the contract changes hands.

Anyone know how other timeshares have handled similar transitions to trusts and what happens if the trust adds an expensive dues resort?

Wyndham operates a dual system, Club Wyndham Select in which owners have a home resort and Club Wyndham Access which is a trust with multiple resorts. Owners get points in both systems and have priority booking windows 10-13 months before checkin based on ownership, but at 10 months “points is points” and they can book anywhere with availability.

The dues for Select owners are specific to their home resorts while dues for Access owners are a weighted average of MFs for all resorts in the trust. When purchasing a resale Select resort, buyers can pay attention to dues and choose a resort with lower dues. Access dues tend to be higher because of the inclusion of resorts with higher MFs, so purchasing a resale Access membership is less desirable.

 

[bama_ed]

I'm not sure that timeline is correct. We stayed in a cabin (manufactured home) on our first trip, March 1994, and my understanding is those were replaced by the current cabins (manufactured homes) in 1997, making the current ones 25 years old and in need of replacement. I think I've seen a timeline on the Camping forum and will look there, and I'll also hope that @bama_ed might come help me here.

That's right, @CarolynFH. Your timeline is correct. There were some early cabins pre-1997 then the current cabins were placed. So CFW will be the 3rd generation of cabins at FW.

The Orlando Weekly article linked was poorly researched.

In 2016 when the article was written, Disney had pulled all 40-something trailers out of Loop 2100 and THOSE were the ones being sold in the article's picture. It wasn't all 400 FW cabins in all the loops.

Loop 2100 was added to FW about 1977 as a camping/campsite loop but later at some point converted to cabins in later years since it was the loop most adjacent to the other cabin loops 2200-2800. I was camping at the Fort early 2016 and saw slabs in 2100 where they had already started pulling the cabins (I have pictures). The old stump camping utility posts for water and power were still there under/beside the cabins (they had to be replaced of course).

In 2016, Loop 2100 was converted BACK to a camping loop because campsite occupancy levels are VERY high most of the year and the cabin occupancy levels are NOT as high relatively speaking. Surely someone did a spreadsheet saying Disney could make more money overall with 2100 as a camping loop.

IRS rules for manufactured housing state that they have a depreciation lifetime of 27.5 years. If they were placed in 1997-ish, then now was the time that Disney had to do SOMETHING with them (replace them with new cabins as hotel inventory or go DVC with the replacement). As I speculated earlier in this thread somewhere, the CFW will also have 27.5 years of life and since they will go to 2075 in this resort, they going to be replaced at lease ONCE more during the life of the CFW.

Bama Ed

 

[Brian Noble]

Do we even know if Disney is planning to offer 11 month booking at multiple resorts under the trust? We may be jumping the gun. Disney may stick to their current system to keep it simple as there seems to be a resort and master trust.

No, we are, and I think that's what will happen. My bet: the mechanics of use will be the same as they are now, but using different legal frameworks.

 

[Sandisw]

Here is what we know so far regarding dues.

 

[Sykes]

No, we are, and I think that's what will happen. My bet: the mechanics of use will be the same as they are now, but using different legal frameworks.

I'm on this train too. I wouldn't be surprised either way, but at this point I'm leaning (like 60% confidence) that the trust product will be functionally the same as the existing deeded offerings (to the user/owner) with just a different underlying legal framework.

 

[achinforsomebacon]

The booking at more than one, I think will come into play with the DVC membership agreement in which each resort plan allows others to book it and vice versa. Basically, each gives the other access at the same time.

How would this work when resort owners are supposed to have at least 1 month home resort advantage over non-owners? Wouldn't this bypass that requirement? Or would it be that the trust owns both resorts and is "sharing" login info as in your example?

I relate it akin to you and I both agreeing to share our log in info and each giving each other permission to use our home resort points when they want.

It's one thing for a few owners to swap. It's completely different if thousands of owners get to "share" login info.