Ft. Wilderness Cabins becoming DVC?

[Sandisw]

I’m not sure to follow the current discussion…

have DVC announced the Cabins will be a different (new) association?
and same resale restrictions at RIV?

Do you know if cabins will be available only with direct contracts?

Will the cabins be available soon right?

Thanks!

Paperwork has now been filed. The cabins will be sold as part of a trust and you would buy into a right to use plan, not a deeded ownership like the current resorts.

The documents do say that resale restrictions will apply.

 

[Cfabar1]

I find this incredibly distressing....

I'm curious what this will do to our deeded interests that we own... Makes me wonder if it is time to sell and get out now....

 

[Frugal Fairy Tales]

I fired up the ouija board last night and communicated with Walt himself and asked him what he'd do. Walt said the new, shiny Poly Tower is going into the Trust and will have resale restrictions. If Walt said it on the oija board, then it must be true, right? But, given I was still a bit skeptical, I confirmed that what he said was true with my Magic 8 Ball, and we all know that its never wrong.

So, count on it. The Tower may be part of the PVB resort, as was mentioned by Yvonne, but it's gonna be in the Trust and restricted. Just like CFW.

What do your sources tell you about the ability to use non-grandfathered resale Poly points to book 11 months out at the new Poly tower?

 

[Sandisw]

I find this incredibly distressing....

I'm curious what this will do to our deeded interests that we own... Makes me wonder if it is time to sell and get out now....

As long as the units declared into current resorts are not added to the trust…and I do not think they can be, I do not see any impact on current owners, at least not until 2042 when those resorts exist the system.

I think in 20 years, trading into other resorts will be more difficult if all are being done via the trust model. The nature of SAP may no longer be the concept it once was.

I think it’s just too early to tell. But, if they are going to do something with the Poly tower in some way related to a trust, we will at least know in 6 months or so when paperwork is filed or the current POS is amended to add the units.

 

[aka Charles]

It’s just you are not a deeded owner in the property.

That is what I am afraid will be the biggest problem with a trust.

I am sure there are many laws about how a trust can work, but I am positive that the "purchasers of RTU contracts" will not have as many rights or abilities as the "owners of a timeshare property deed".

The one glaring fact is that the TRUST owns the points, not those with RTU contracts.

I believe that to make any changes to timeshare contracts, agreements, etc. it takes a large percentage of the OWNERS to vote and agree on the changes.
This has been why DVD has not been able to make any major changes to existing DVC contracts.
With a trust (controlled by DVD) being the "OWNER" of large blocks of points, they will have greater ability to make changes.
As the trust grows over time, adding more large numbers of points from more new and/or existing resorts, they will gain more "Voting" power as OWNERS.

I could be totally wrong about this, I hope I am, but what if I am not?
.

 

[ehh]

Yep! Exhibit A to the Declaration shows 30 cabins on those (see pgs 40 & 45 of pdf).

This one notes that there are 229,820 points for the 30 cabins activated, which suggests an average point per night of about 21 points per cabin per night (229,820/30/365= 20.99).

I checked Poly, VGF and RIV standard studios and their maximum reallocations are 22, 22 and 20.

Great work with all these documents! Really appreciated!

With the full acknowledgement that the 21 may just be the 'maximum reallocation' and not the precise average per night of the first full year points chart (2025), here's some other room categories that have average pts/night in this range, if people want to compare to points charts they're more familiar with:

• CCV/BRV/BCV Studios - 17.3-17.4 points/night
• AKV Savanna Studio - 18.1
• RIV Standard View Studio - 19.1
• BLT Lake View Studio - 20.2
• VDH Standard View Deluxe Studio - 20.7
• VGF Standard View Studios - 20.9
• PVB Standard View Studio - 21.7
• AKV Value 1BR - 22.4
• VGC Studio - 23.4
• VDH Preferred View Deluxe Studio - 23.7
• RIV Preferred View Studio - 23.8
• BLT Theme Park View Studio - 24.1
• VGF Lake View Studio - 25.1
• AUL Ocean View Studio - 27.3
• BWV Standard View 1BR - 28.1
• OKW 1BR - 28.2
• SSR Standard 1BR - 29.7
• VGF Theme Park View Studio - 31.0

I'm surprised at how inexpensive they are--they could have spun a "greater than any Studio" story and tried to swing for the fences beyond 31pts/night. Or a similar "less than (almost) any 1BR" story and come in at 27pts/night. But instead they landed it somewhere around VGF/PVB Standard View, I'm kind of impressed by their restraint.*

It also means that for a 350 cabin resort, that the total resort points will be roughly 2.68mil.

* I must acknowledge that current rack rates for the cabins are well below the other ~21pt/night rooms, so it's not that great

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

Reading 73 pages about this new "trust" concept have given me a headache!

Is it safe to assume that the cabins in this trust and, even more critically, future resorts that are in this or future trusts will still trade with the existing resorts?

One of the primary reasons given for why to buy direct was to have "unrestricted" points that could be used at any resort... including all future resorts.

Despite an announcement that the cabins WILL have resale restrictions, I haven't seen anything yet that clearly states if the trust-based properties will trade in with the existing associations. If not, that seems to 100% contradict direct points being "unrestricted." If I can't use my "unrestricted" direct points at a future resort because that resort is part of the new trust model of DVC, then those direct points are most definitely "restricted" and the promise of being able to book at any future resorts is smashed to smithereens!

Is there any clarity about how a new trust-based system will coexist with the legacy resorts in terms of trading in to book at those resorts? Since there's been some speculation about existing resorts being added to a trust, that would mean resorts could have both "deeded" and "trust-based RTU" points?

Presumably that means future resorts could also have both types, but WILL they? And if they don't, I go back to my previous question... what about the promise of being able to book at future resorts with "unrestricted" direct points?

 

[Jwaire]

What's interesting about the Cabins is they don't tend to have a long shelf life.

According to Orlando Weekly, the original FW Cabins were placed there between 1997 and 2000. Were all updated in 2016 and the original cabins sold off. Now, we have DVC replacing the current cabins with newer ones after less than 8 years.

How do you sell a deed to something you plan on replacing every 15/20 or so years?

https://www.orlandoweekly.com/arts/...-fort-wilderness-campground-for-20000-2515233

 

[zavandor]

Reading 73 pages about this new "trust" concept have given me a headache!

Is it safe to assume that the cabins in this trust and, even more critically, future resorts that are in this or future trusts will still trade with the existing resorts?

One of the primary reasons given for why to buy direct was to have "unrestricted" points that could be used at any resort... including all future resorts.

Despite an announcement that the cabins WILL have resale restrictions, I haven't seen anything yet that clearly states if the trust-based properties will trade in with the existing associations. If not, that seems to 100% contradict direct points being "unrestricted." If I can't use my "unrestricted" direct points at a future resort because that resort is part of the new trust model of DVC, then those direct points are most definitely "restricted" and the promise of being able to book at any future resorts is smashed to smithereens!

Is there any clarity about how a new trust-based system will coexist with the legacy resorts in terms of trading in to book at those resorts? Since there's been some speculation about existing resorts being added to a trust, that would mean resorts could have both "deeded" and "trust-based RTU" points?

Presumably that means future resorts could also have both types, but WILL they? And if they don't, I go back to my previous question... what about the promise of being able to book at future resorts with "unrestricted" direct points?

Until we get some clarity from Disney anything can happen, but I think there are over 99% chances that at 7 months trust points will be able to exchange with existing deeded resorts.
Basically, I expect that the only difference is that Trust resorts will be able to exchange between them at 11 months, but at 7 months it's free for all for unrestricted points.
I also expect that any highly desirable room in a Trust resort will never be available at 7 months.

For example, currently, it's not impossible to book BWV a few months of the year. While BWV owners mostly book their resort, there are always a few owners who want to try other resorts. This causes a few points to trickle to 7 months.
But if (when) BWV joins the Trust in 2042, it'll immediately become a very highly desirable resort in all booking categories (unless they double the cost per night, which they will probably do). It's not just BWV owners, but tens/hundreds of thousands of Trust owners at other resorts that will be able to book BWV, this will leave nothing at 7 months.

 

[Sandisw]

Reading 73 pages about this new "trust" concept have given me a headache!

Is it safe to assume that the cabins in this trust and, even more critically, future resorts that are in this or future trusts will still trade with the existing resorts?

One of the primary reasons given for why to buy direct was to have "unrestricted" points that could be used at any resort... including all future resorts.

Despite an announcement that the cabins WILL have resale restrictions, I haven't seen anything yet that clearly states if the trust-based properties will trade in with the existing associations. If not, that seems to 100% contradict direct points being "unrestricted." If I can't use my "unrestricted" direct points at a future resort because that resort is part of the new trust model of DVC, then those direct points are most definitely "restricted" and the promise of being able to book at any future resorts is smashed to smithereens!

Is there any clarity about how a new trust-based system will coexist with the legacy resorts in terms of trading in to book at those resorts? Since there's been some speculation about existing resorts being added to a trust, that would mean resorts could have both "deeded" and "trust-based RTU" points?

Presumably that means future resorts could also have both types, but WILL they? And if they don't, I go back to my previous question... what about the promise of being able to book at future resorts with "unrestricted" direct points?

Yes. The DVC redort agreement for the cabins resort plan has it part of BVTC. It’s rules are exactly the same.

So, current owners with eligible points wil have access to it at 7 months,

 

[Sandisw]

That is what I am afraid will be the biggest problem with a trust.

I am sure there are many laws about how a trust can work, but I am positive that the "purchasers of RTU contracts" will not have as many rights or abilities as the "owners of a timeshare property deed".

The one glaring fact is that the TRUST owns the points, not those with RTU contracts.

I believe that to make any changes to timeshare contracts, agreements, etc. it takes a large percentage of the OWNERS to vote and agree on the changes.
This has been why DVD has not been able to make any major changes to existing DVC contracts.
With a trust (controlled by DVD) being the "OWNER" of large blocks of points, they will have greater ability to make changes.
As the trust grows over time, adding more large numbers of points from more new and/or existing resorts, they will gain more "Voting" power as OWNERS.

I could be totally wrong about this, I hope I am, but what if I am not?
.

The documents spell out the voting rights of each owner of an interest in the trust and how it will work.

But, when you are buying, you are buying with a POS document for being a member of the trust.

That is going to function pretty much the same way as the current one does in terms of changing it moving forward.

 

[ocdb8r1]

The documents spell out the voting rights of each owner of an interest in the trust and how it will work.

But, when you are buying, you are buying with a POS document for being a member of the trust.

That is going to function pretty much the same way as the current one does in terms of changing it moving forward.

There are some implications though:

1) You will have voting rights as regards the trust itself, but not as regards any of the underlying resorts it owns. The representatives of the trust would vote in any underlying resort HOA meetings;

2) If more than one resort eventually becomes part of the trust, DVC will benefit from aggregating all the points it holds across multiple resorts.

 

[BeachClub2014]

What do your sources tell you about the ability to use non-grandfathered resale Poly points to book 11 months out at the new Poly tower?

Great question! I grabbed my crystal ball and channeled Madam Leota for a convo. Per Madam Leota, and don't quote me on this, there will be many disappointed PVB owners, especially those that recently bought resale contracts. It's entirely possible that Madam Leota (is her first name Yvonne?) may have misunderstood the question, or perhaps I read too much into her answer.

Time will tell.

 

[Genie+]

That is lower than I expected. It really does seem like these will be closer to studio pricing than 1 bedrooms…I think that could make them more popular than once thought.

That’s a great carrot to buy into the Trust!

 

[Brian Noble]

You will have voting rights as regards the trust itself, but not as regards any of the underlying resorts it owns. The representatives of the trust would vote in any underlying resort HOA meetings

This is true, but less important for DVC than for some other timeshares, because the Board (which makes most decisions) is already elected by the developer, which is the "authorized Voting Representative" by permanent proxy.

 

[Sandisw]

There are some implications though:

1) You will have voting rights as regards the trust itself, but not as regards any of the underlying resorts it owns. The representatives of the trust would vote in any underlying resort HOA meetings;

2) If more than one resort eventually becomes part of the trust, DVC will benefit from aggregating all the points it holds across multiple resorts.

The way the language is written for the CFW plan, the points can be reallocated amongst all of the trust property activated for that specific plan and must always balance.

I do not read anything that will give them the authority to add new trust property at other locations and then up the point totals as though it’s one big resort.

Plus, while it won’t amount to much as DVD retains more voting rights, it appears to me it’s the same symbolic voting we have now, which is pretty much nothing.

 

[New Mouse]

A trust with multi home resort priority would marginalize my position as a direct owner. As now I'd have less of a chance to book one of those resorts in the trust. I can't imagine existing owners will be ok with that.

 

[AwfulWaffle]

I can't imagine existing owners will be ok with that.

From an outside perspective, it seems to be more of a long term business decision solution to push direct sales upward even with the resale restrictions in place. As an added bonus, they also create a new path forward for handling 2042 contracts if this business plan goes in the direction they anticipate. It really is their only play given the direction they chose to go with the Riviera resort so they are okay with disappointing a few former buyers to appease the next generation of buyers. I for one am not a direct member yet so but having 11 month booking window for all my points instead of spreading them around to get 11 month where I want for a day or two is much more appealing to me. I am still a little saddened that "pets friendly" is considered a "perk" and can be taken away at any time like annual passes but one closing cost for multiple 11 month priority bookings that use one pool of points? Yes please
Now we just need their official roadmap so we can see if this is how Disney plans on executing their trust based membership. Looking forward to new news from my DVC rep in the next month or two

 

[Sandisw]

A trust with multi home resort priority would marginalize my position as a direct owner. As now I'd have less of a chance to book one of those resorts in the trust. I can't imagine existing owners will be ok with that.

Except we are not guaranteed to be able to book any other resort in any other way than first come first serve at the 7 month…or whatever window…is there.

So, even if it may be harder to book them, it’s still the same premise.

 

[AwfulWaffle]

Except we are not guaranteed to be able to book any other resort in any other way than first come first serve at the 7 month…or whatever window…is there.

So, even if it may be harder to book them, it’s still the same premise.

Correct. We won’t know until their official plan is released but if we can then yes please.