Frommer article full of WDW misinformation

[fairycat]

I have to say that if I stumbled across this article and had known nothing about WDW I would still have ignored any and all advice given.

My first problem is that the writer only discusses a visit to a park 2000 miles or so away and uses that as its base for why this ladies kids will hate the trip. How does that compare? I mean I can say my 8 year old cousin went to Universal and was terribly frightened by the costume characters so you should never take your kids until they are at least 10 to any amusement park. You would probably think I am nuts! Wouldn't it be better to find out what the different types of characters are at different types of parks and look at your own children. Do they hide in terror when its time to take pictures with Santa or the Easter Bunny?? Or are they interested and comfortable with characters at malls and places? If so you know what to watch for with your kid, its very easy to look at your childs reactions in your normal world and then work around this. Simply let characters know your childs boundaries they are there for that and they are not going to push them.

Weather is weather, if you don't want heat visit Anartica. The vast majority of theme parks tend to be in places that have warm summers. If you don't like the heat go in the Fall-Spring. Why do you think all the east coasters love WDW I can guarentee its not the heat of summer that brings them but the comfort it offers in the winter.

I love that she complains heavily about food prices but her only suggestion to battle this is to rent a car. So what about Lunch?? I can see eating Breakfast at your hotel that is easy, maybe if you chose to leave the park early in the evening for a 6pm Dinner or maybe went later (but how late can you really go with kids that young?), but if you chose to leave for lunch too you really add to your already shortened day. Also unlike DL which has outside hotels close to the park, if your child wants to break for a nap and swim you are going to spend all day driving in and out of the parks which means your ticket value is getting you less and less.


Amusement parks are expensive!!!!!!! Its the nature of the beast they offer you rides, fun, and entertainment. Your ticket while expensive does not cover very much of the up keep, personal and all the other parts of running a park, it is a nice base but not the money maker. The biggest money maker at almost every event/amusement park is always food and drink. Its just the way it is and for convience many of us will pay for it, others also feel its part of the experience. Again this is not just Disney parks, this is any and all parks. I work at Renaissance Faires our drink prices are in line with what Disney and other events and parks charge. In fact at one point I noticed Magic Mountain had higher drink prices then DL.

Overall this ladies advice sounds like its coming from not an expert but as some one we may know in our lives a neighbor, co-worker, lady at the grocery store whatever. She gives the advice short of "well my SIL's cousin went to WDW and had an awful time, it was hot and muggy and it rained a lot. You should never go there." Maybe she should talk to some more real experts, that goes for the Questioner and the Writers!

 

[The Big Daddy]

The only info I think is wrong in the article is regarding the two rooms if you have 4 people and a baby. But otherwise she gives some very good advice about how to cut costs. Having been to Disneyworld and stayed on property 7 or 8 times now I really can't find fault with the article. The budget and moderate "resorts" ARE motels, by Illinois standards. You drive up to them and there are no internal corridors connecting rooms to the main building. And we know prices are higher for a value at Disney than if you stayed in a nicer property off-site. In fact I've seen several posters who frequent the deluxe resorts at Disney and have stated that the quality is much better if you stay at a deluxe hotel someplace else...you're paying for the Disney name and the closeness to the parks and free busses. With regards to kids not enjoying EPCOT, we have to do EPCOT early in the trip because my niece and nephew, ages 5 and 10, are bored to death at EPCOT. Heck some of the adults find it boring. EPCOT is the least kid friendly of the parks and with the park being so large kids and adults become tired quickly. EPCOT really is a two day park to see it all without killing yourself. Now how many kids, if asked, would rather spend two days at Magic Kingdom and ride everything a second time, or spend two days at EPCOT to see everything once. I really haven't seen any squealling children scrambling with delight to be the first in line to see the display of Hummel figurines in Germany or who are mesmerized by the extra large cucumbers on Living with the Land. We have to get EPCOT in early in the trip because by the end of the week if we have to take the kids to EPCOT on a Thusday they complain because it isn't as fun for them. Now if we tell them we're going to Magic Kingdom Friday night after being at parks all week and have to be up early the next day for the plane home they'll be in he bus with their light up ears all ready to go, aches and pains forgotten.

I know she refers to the "corporate" machine but what isn't run by the corporations these days? Just look at how they influence our government. And Disney HAS gone more commerical over the years. I was watching some of the Disney shows on the travel channel this past Sunday and they mention in one of them that "Disney saw an opportunity" with regards to hotels on site. Of course they did...an opportunity for profit and to keep visitors onsite rather than let tem spend some time at Universal or elsewhere. Not everything Walt put into the parks had to be tied to one of the Disney films but it seems like everything now is getting reverse engineered to incorporate movie merchadise (Pirates adding Johnny Depp, Stitch Encounter?) And why is Disney forcing Stitch down everyone's throat? Is he the new Mickey Mouse? He's everywhere down there. Seems like 25% of the pins the produce feature Stitch and he's made his way onto the World of Disney store like they were adding him to Mt Rushmore. Just my opinion but I think her article is fair and isn't far off the kinf of advice I would give to someone looking to cut costs, being a Disney veteran. And before you say otherwise, I love Disney and got my whole family hooked on it, but I'm also aware that quality has slipped since I first started going and costs have been rising.

 

[The Big Daddy]

The only info I think is wrong in the article is regarding the two rooms if you have 4 people and a baby. But otherwise she gives some very good advice about how to cut costs. Having been to Disneyworld and stayed on property 7 or 8 times now I really can't find fault with the article. The budget and moderate "resorts" ARE motels, by Illinois standards. You drive up to them and there are no internal corridors connecting rooms to the main building. And we know prices are higher for a value at Disney than if you stayed in a nicer property off-site. In fact I've seen several posters who frequent the deluxe resorts at Disney and have stated that the quality is much better if you stay at a deluxe hotel someplace else...you're paying for the Disney name and the closeness to the parks and free busses. With regards to kids not enjoying EPCOT, we have to do EPCOT early in the trip because my niece and nephew, ages 5 and 10, are bored to death at EPCOT. Heck some of the adults find it boring. EPCOT is the least kid friendly of the parks and with the park being so large kids and adults become tired quickly. EPCOT really is a two day park to see it all without killing yourself. Now how many kids, if asked, would rather spend two days at Magic Kingdom and ride everything a second time, or spend two days at EPCOT to see everything once. I really haven't seen any squealling children scrambling with delight to be the first in line to see the display of Hummel figurines in Germany or who are mesmerized by the extra large cucumbers on Living with the Land. We have to get EPCOT in early in the trip because by the end of the week if we have to take the kids to EPCOT on a Thusday they complain because it isn't as fun for them. Now if we tell them we're going to Magic Kingdom Friday night after being at parks all week and have to be up early the next day for the plane home they'll be in he bus with their light up ears all ready to go, aches and pains forgotten.

I know she refers to the "corporate" machine but what isn't run by the corporations these days? Just look at how they influence our government. And Disney HAS gone more commerical over the years. I was watching some of the Disney shows on the travel channel this past Sunday and they mention in one of them that "Disney saw an opportunity" with regards to hotels on site. Of course they did...an opportunity for profit and to keep visitors onsite rather than let tem spend some time at Universal or elsewhere. Not everything Walt put into the parks had to be tied to one of the Disney films but it seems like everything now is getting reverse engineered to incorporate movie merchadise (Pirates adding Johnny Depp, Stitch Encounter?) And why is Disney forcing Stitch down everyone's throat? Is he the new Mickey Mouse? He's everywhere down there. Seems like 25% of the pins the produce feature Stitch and he's made his way onto the World of Disney store like they were adding him to Mt Rushmore. Just my opinion but I think her article is fair and isn't far off the kinf of advice I would give to someone looking to cut costs, being a Disney veteran. And before you say otherwise, I love Disney and got my whole family hooked on it, but I'm also aware that quality has slipped since I first started going and costs have been rising.

 

[PrincessTiffany]

Our kids had their first Disney trip when they were 12, 10 and 7. I wanted to wait until everyone could ride everything. (I also knew that my husband was the biggest kid in the family and that he would leave me behind in Fantasyland while he rode the thrill rides if we went when the kids were younger.)

A GOOD article would have presented both the pros and cons for waiting vs. going when the kids are little, so that the reader could make his or her own, informed decision based on her knowledge of her own family.

You are correct. A GOOD article would have mentioned it. I sent an email listing the inaccuracies. I hope they forward it to Pauline Frommer.

 

[TommyTutone]

[QUOTE="Cinder" Ella's Mom;20967085]We took our DS6 and DD4 to all four parks in December. We just returned from a short trip and they could only choose two parks to visit. They chose Epcot as one. They love Soaring, Test Track, Nemo, Ellen's Energy Adventure, etc. My son loves the countries! What an ignorant comment.[/QUOTE]

Of the choices, were Universal and SeaWorld listed as options for your kids? If so, then fooey on her, otherwise the pool of options are not the same.

I know my son, age 5, given a choice would take Isle of Adventure in a heartbeat over EPCOT since he's a superhero and dinosaur nut.

Her comment in this regard was ill-informed and she should instead suggest parents tell their kids about what each park offers and let the kids decide.

 

[marivaid]

The only info I think is wrong in the article is regarding the two rooms if you have 4 people and a baby.

She said adults are age 11 and up, it's 10 and up. That the dining plan is inconvenient because only certain places accept the plan - making it sound like the majority of eateries do not. That the values are packed with school groups "most of the year".
But mostly it's the LACK of information. How can you write an article about WDW and not mention EMH, or the free transportation ?! It's like she was purposely avoiding to mention any on-site guest perk.

With regards to kids not enjoying EPCOT, we have to do EPCOT early in the trip because my niece and nephew, ages 5 and 10, are bored to death at EPCOT. Heck some of the adults find it boring.

So it wasn't YOUR cup of tea. We don't like MGM, that does not mean that others will not enjoy it and it certainely doesn't qualify me to tell a perfect stranger what her kids will or will not enjoy.

I really haven't seen any squealling children scrambling with delight to be the first in line to see the display of Hummel figurines in Germany or who are mesmerized by the extra large cucumbers on Living with the Land.

I've seen plenty of kids squealing with delight at the Nemo ride, Turtle Talk with Crush, Soarin', Test Track, meeting characters around the WC....
No wonder your DN think Epcot is boring if all you take them to is Germany and Living with the Land

 

[missypie]

I totally agree that the article is like something your neighbor or co-worker would say, based one trip. If I go to Vegas and hate it, I am entitled to tell my co-workers that I hated it and why. But if I was a travel writer, I would have the obligation to be more objective, listing the bad and the good.

 

[Mkrop]

. With regards to kids not enjoying EPCOT, we have to do EPCOT early in the trip because my niece and nephew, ages 5 and 10, are bored to death at EPCOT. Heck some of the adults find it boring. EPCOT is the least kid friendly of the parks and with the park being so large kids and adults become tired quickly. EPCOT really is a two day park to see it all without killing yourself. Now how many kids, if asked, would rather spend two days at Magic Kingdom and ride everything a second time, or spend two days at EPCOT to see everything once. I really haven't seen any squealling children scrambling with delight to be the first in line to see the display of Hummel figurines in Germany or who are mesmerized by the extra large cucumbers on Living with the Land. We have to get EPCOT in early in the trip because by the end of the week if we have to take the kids to EPCOT on a Thusday they complain because it isn't as fun for them. Now if we tell them we're going to Magic Kingdom Friday night after being at parks all week and have to be up early the next day for the plane home they'll be in he bus with their light up ears all ready to go, aches and pains forgotten.

Now see my kids were 9 and 4 this last trip and they LOVED EPCOT. More FW then WS but they begged to go back one night so they could ride Soarin again. DS4 loved Soarin, Nemo ride and esp loved Turtle Talk with Crush. He did like the Land ride and thought the vegtables were cool and of course my other gut loved TT and MS.

Epcot was one of out fvaorite parks this time around so even if it is not for your family or the author's family many kids do like.

 

[icecrystahl]

The one thing that stuck out most, to me, is her Epcot comment.....I've been going to Epcot since I was around 3 (15 now) and it has always been a very close second to MK.

She's is soo ridiculous...

http://www.amazon.com/Pauline-Fromm...025749?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190670705&sr=8-10

Post bad reviews!!

 

[The Big Daddy]

She said adults are age 11 and up, it's 10 and up. That the dining plan is inconvenient because only certain places accept the plan - making it sound like the majority of eateries do not. That the values are packed with school groups "most of the year".
But mostly it's the LACK of information. How can you write an article about WDW and not mention EMH, or the free transportation ?! It's like she was purposely avoiding to mention any on-site guest perk.

I did not go away with the impression that MOST eateries do not accept the plan. But do you honestly think very young children are going to get their monies worth out of the dining plan? Kids stomachs are bigger then their brains. My niece orders a full meal at breakfast EVERY Sunday at the restaurant we go to and also orders a small cup of soup. After she's done with the cup of soup the rest of the food goes to waste. I think when advising someone on how to do Disney on a BUDGET that the dinning plan for MOST small children will be more than necessary...and she does state that dining options are cheaper outside the world. Certainly you aren't disputing that fact. Even for a 10 year old who will eat his own weight in chicken strips, is the dining plan still going to be a CHEAPER option than going offsite to eat?

Lack of information? That's like asking Dr Phil a question and being upset that he can't analyze your entire life in a 5 minute snippet. I take this article for what it is...the Dear Abby or Dr Phil of travel info...

I've seen plenty of kids squealing with delight at the Nemo ride, Turtle Talk with Crush, Soarin', Test Track, meeting characters around the WC....
No wonder your DN think Epcot is boring if all you take them to is Germany and Living with the Land

And by and large I've seen kids having more fun at MGM than at EPCOT, but you don't like MGM. Are you really saying that EPCOT is a huge kid friendy park? I would agree that they are making strides towards becoming more kid friendly but they have a long way to go. Even Walt Disney's original intention for EPCOT didn't sound kid friendly...Experimental Prototype Community Of Tomorrow? Line up, kids! I think buying a non-park hopping ticket (which might be advisable to cut costs for this person) and taking a chance on EPCOT with young kids might be risky. If they complain are you going to waste that day on the ticket and ust go back to the resort? Perhaps your budget is much larger than the person asking the question. Maybe you can afford park-hoppers with the no expire option, go all out for the dining plan, stay at one of their resorts and get the full water view (which, by the way, seems to be another money making scam, since they have increased the number of water view rooms to include anything with a puddle larger than a frisbee outside your door) and all the souvenirs the kids want.

It's up to the person asking the question in the article to look further into whether or not EPCOT is for them, to review the costs of staying onsite versus offsite, if their kids will make the dining plan a worthwhile option, etc. Let's be realistic, this isn't Walt's Disneyworld anymore...this is corporate America. They have stock prices and investors to please and bottom line is everything. That's not to say that it doesn't have some of the best service I've ever seen and I do always feel like I get my money's worth but if they stopped turning a profit and couldn't reverse the situation, they'd close their doors.

I think that some people on this board are too sensitive when it comes to someone being critical about their favorite vacation spot. So the article had an error in it, maybe even two errors...the author of the article says right away she hasn't been to Disneyworld, so she isn't intentionally misleading anyone. Can you really tell me she's wrong about Disney being corporate? Why do you think other companies try to emulate the Disney approach to customer service? Because they see it makes MONEY!!!

 

[The Big Daddy]

Sorry my posts keep doubling up. My computer keeps timing out.

 

[Kathi OD]

Several of us from the CB have emailed her. None have received a reply as far as I know. Apparently her book (which is co-authored by her) is also chock full of misinformation. It's a shame that people will buy it and that could be the only thing they read.

One thing (albeit small) thing that we can do is hit the B&N and Amazon websites and post our own reviews of her book. At least this will let others know she doesn't have a freaking clue!

 

[disphoto]

Disney's All Star Resorts, but truthfully, only their corporate overlord would give them "stars." They're cinderblock motels, packed with loud school groups for much of the year, that are located farther from the Disney attractions than most of the (often nicer) motels that are clustered around the gates of Disney World. And, at between $89 and $129 a night, they cost about twice as much as those motels

This also seems to imply that the All Star Resorts are MORE expensive than the moderates???

 

[JennyMominRI]

Big Daddy, I have taken 5 kids to EPCOT... 3 out of five call it their favorite park..

 

[ScottNBecky]

I love that the picture used is Mickey from many years ago . That says enough right there.

 

[marivaid]

I think when advising someone on how to do Disney on a BUDGET that the dinning plan for MOST small children will be more than necessary...and she does state that dining options are cheaper outside the world. Certainly you aren't disputing that fact. Even for a 10 year old who will eat his own weight in chicken strips, is the dining plan still going to be a CHEAPER option than going offsite to eat?

Then she could have simply said that this family would find better dining options offsite. No arguing there. There was no need to say that something is "inconvenient" - which it's not, or imply that it'll be hard to find a place that'll accept it, which could not be further from the truth.

Lack of information? That's like asking Dr Phil a question and being upset that he can't analyze your entire life in a 5 minute snippet.

Somehow she had time to discuss all that was wrong with the Value resorts, give website addresses for offsite motels and condos, and tell the reader to go to Seaworld, but she didn't have time to mention EMH.

Are you really saying that EPCOT is a huge kid friendy park?

I - like you - don't have any kids, but several parents on this thread have already said that EPCOT is their kids' favorite park. And I have seen plenty of kids having a ball at Epcot - no pun intended. My friend's son who loves everything about animals HATED AK - think she saw that one coming??? They even stayed at AKL in order to be closer to that park, but spent 4 out of 7 days at Epcot. Go figure.

So the article had an error in it, maybe even two errors...the author of the article says right away she hasn't been to Disneyworld, so she isn't intentionally misleading anyone.

The author has published a guide book about Disney World. I checked the front page on Amazon and don't see "Written by someone who's never set a foot on Disney property"... but it's not misleading, of course. It'd be silly to assume that someone who writes a guide book about a vacation destination has actually been there.

I think that some people on this board are too sensitive when it comes to someone being critical about their favorite vacation spot.

Well, for one thing, my favorite destination spot is Clearwater Beach.
I'd be just as annoyed if this was an article on how to spend some time at the beach on a budget and the author was giving out false information.

 

[DanMedix]

The budget and moderate "resorts" ARE motels, by Illinois standards.

I've been to Illinois once.
I was robbed at gunpoint, and pistol-whipped.
Guess where I'm NOT going again, despite the "high hotel standards"

 

[nick262]

Here is the response that I received today from MSN:

"Dear MSN Travel Reader:



Thanks for taking the time to respond to our story on Disney World written by Pauline Frommer. As the editor of the site, I certainly appreciate when readers are passionate enough about a topic to tell us what they think – and where we’ve got the story wrong.



This was one of those rare occasions when we did make a few factual errors in the piece, which we acknowledge and regret. As a result, we’re publishing a correction on the site that reads as follows:



As several readers pointed out, children under age 2 do not count toward the four-person limit stipulated at certain Walt Disney World Resorts. For Walt Disney World tickets, adult fees apply to children ages 10 and above, not ages 11 and up. Also, while a children’s meal including a hot dog can cost up to $7, an individual hot dog costs less at Disney. Finally, the photo originally used in this article pictured the Matterhorn, a ride at Disneyland in Anaheim.



Many of you also disagreed with our writer’s conclusions about Disney World. Here’s what Pauline Frommer, our “Vacation Doc,” had to say in response:



I was sorry to see that my article angered you and I do apologize for the

error in terms of the pricing for babies. I misread that bit of fine print,

and thought that the five-people to a room rule also applied to infants. We

will be changing that and posting an apology. Our producers at MSN also put

in the wrong picture and that's been changed (I have nothing to do with the

artwork).



As for the other comments posted by you and other readers: The article was

based partially on the research done for the book Pauline Frommer's Walt

Disney World and Orlando and partially on my own trips to Disney World

(which I've visited a number of times over the years as a travel writer,

though I haven't been able to take my children there yet). No hotel or

theme park paid to be included in the article, nor did I feel I was doing a

"hatchet job" on Disney. As I said at the end of the article, I think that

Disney's ability to engage the imaginations of their visitors is

unparalleled. I've been going to Disney World since I was a child, and love

many things about it.



That being said, I do think many of Disney's offerings are overpriced. At

$45/day, per person, I don't think the meal plan is a good value especially

when you consider the price of food outside the parks. There are also

restrictions on the eating plan that I find onerous: everyone in the room

must buy one, not every eatery on property is included, and it’s good for

one counterservice and one sitdown meal a day meaning that you have to

spend a good amount of time making and keeping reservations (something a

lot of visitors don't enjoy doing). You also can't customize it so that you

pay less if you leave early on your last day at Disney, which means many

guests end up paying more than they have to.



As for the All Star Resorts: I stand behind my assessment. I think there

are better values elsewhere in the area, and I was disappointed by their

"theming" and didn't feel it was up to the usual Disney high standards. And

they are consistently booked by large school groups, which can lead to

noise problems.



To those of you who argued that the reader could stay at Disney World for

that amount of time for $1600 are forgetting that the original questioner

was including airfare in the cost of her budget. That would have added

another $800 at minimum for the four of them. They therefore only had $800

left for the rest of the vacation (theme park tickets, hotel room,

etc.), which is why I was recommending only the most rock-bottom of

options. The advice given would have been very different had the original

questioner had a different budget to work with.



Finally, many of you found it hard to believe that my children didn't enjoy

Disneyland and felt that it skewed my reaction to the parks. I included

that anecdote because I felt it was a pretty common one. I've heard from

many readers in the past that their small children found the parks a bit

overwhelming and enjoyed them more at a later age. (And I don't think that

Epcot has enough to keep the younger guests happy, especially when compared

to the other Disney parks.) I'm glad to hear that your children had a

wonderful time when they visited. Our visit was mixed, but what I wrote in

the rest of the article wasn't based simply on our experience.



I want to thank you for writing in and sharing your thoughts with me. It's

always enormously helpful to get feedback from readers.



Cordially,



Pauline Frommer



Again, my sincere thanks for telling us what you thought of this story. I hope you’ll continue to visit MSN Travel to engage with our content and plan your next trip, whether it’s to a Disney park or someplace else in the world.



Safe travels!



Best,



Jon Douglas

Managing Editor, MSN Travel"



Ms. Frommer seems a tad defensive.

 

[TDC Nala]

Disney's All Star Resorts, but truthfully, only their corporate overlord would give them "stars." They're cinderblock motels, packed with loud school groups for much of the year, that are located farther from the Disney attractions than most of the (often nicer) motels that are clustered around the gates of Disney World. And, at between $89 and $129 a night, they cost about twice as much as those motels

This also seems to imply that the All Star Resorts are MORE expensive than the moderates???

She's talking about offsite accommodations. She is very clear about what she believes to be the superior value of offsite accommodations. Many visitors would agree with her.

 

[wen8jr]

IMO, this is just an outright dig at WDW.

I think the lady is a joke. Even though she states that she hasn't been to WDW, that is all she talks about...as if she has been there and outright telling people it isn't a great place to vacation. Somehow I even get the feeling she hasn't really been to Disneyland either, what she writes about seems false and made up to me. I may have taken it seriously if it were someone who has been 10 or 12 times.

And if there is(I mean if there is one little inkling) any truth to it, she just sounds mad at the entire world rather than just at WDW. I mean whose fault is it that her children are afraid of the characters or rides and screwed her Disneyland vacation up or she can't afford to go to WDW and stay in a nicer resort? She wouldn't like ANY theme park I've been to then, nor would her children. Why would you give others advice on how your own children behave??? The food prices (CS) are the same everywhere and most don't even offer fine dining like Disney. I would never take advice from someone who spouts negativities about everything. She won't have a very long career in this I'm afraid. Sounds like a spoiled brat who wouldn't be happy being anywhere or doing anything...sort of like she described her children's attitudes when she took them on vacation to DL.

And btw my family, including my DS who is 12 are most looking forward to EPCOT, for the rides, the experience and the food.