FP+ = WDW Losing Money

[DebbieB]

Then what's not to love about FP+? You didn't lose anything.

Actually there are negatives - you have to plan in advance, no riding the same ride twice with FP, the tiers, fastpasses in 2 parks on the same day. But overall for me, the positives outweigh it. Being able to select any time of day, not just the time on the return clock, and not having to go to the ride to get the fastpass, you can change it from across the park.

I was responding to the poster who said "Who I feel really sorry for are the DVC owners who are stuck with decades of a lesser experience than what they bought into.".

I'm still a happy DVC member, no need to feel sorry for me. Plus I'm not convinced this is the final system. Already there are signs that there will be changes.

 

[wuzzy6]

I have to wonder about this. My aunt and uncle are snow birds, and they used to go over to a park, grab a fp for something they wanted to ride and while they waited for the return time, they would eat dinner somewhere. Now, if they want to go over for a ride, they make a FP+ reservation and only go for the ride, eating dinner before they go over.

Surely there are other AP holders who are changing their touring/spending habits like this.

I'm sure there are all sorts of people changing their touring/spending habits - that's something that has been happening all along, even before FP+ rolled out. As much as people want to think that FP+ is going to cause Disney to lose money, it's not - they're going to very likely post another year of record-breaking attendance and profits.

As for your Aunt and Uncle - with all due respect, I don't really understand why FP+ is so terrible for them. If I read your post correctly, they "used to" go to a park, pull a paper FP for whatever ride they choose, go to dinner, ride the FP ride. With FP+, they can still do the same thing, can't they? They can schedule a FP+ for whatever ride they choose, go to the park, go to dinner, ride the FP+ ride... they could even schedule 3 FP+ rides and have dinner in the middle of all of it... and they don't have to walk all over the park to pull the paper tickets. Seems pretty convenient and simple to me, honestly, so I'm not sure why it's such a different experience... besides no longer having to walk all over the park to pull FP tickets first. Maybe I'm just missing something...

FWIW, we are FL Resident AP holders - we make day-trips frequently, and we're actually staying on-site next month for the first time in 12 years. As you can see, changing spending/touring habits definitely goes both ways.

 

[rteetz]

I see to huge pitfalls to the new FP+ system. A large number of people (according to posts on here and other boards) no longer see staying at the resorts as a perk. With decreased EMH and the problems that still exist with the current FP+ system, people are going to take a long hard look at what they are "really" paying for and compare that to what more they can get offsite. For my up coming visit in May I have a 2 bedroom, 2 bathroom condo 5 min disney for 1/4 of the price I would pay to stay at the All Star. If I were a Disney exec I would be the MOST concerned with this next "bottom line" observation. With the new system people are spending more time in line and that means pure and simple less time to shop and eat. That is where Disney makes the most money! I hope that when they start to see significant losses that we will start to see changes to the system. It might not be immediate, but I would not be surprised if that fact has already become quite evident.

actually I disagree this only increases the perks of staying on site now. Only those who are staying or have stayed at a Disney resort have the ability to get those advanced reservations. Off site guests don't get that or magic bands. And all indications from quarterly earnings and what Disney execs have said they are not losing money due to this they actually have seen an increase of guest spending. They aren't seeing significant losses now and if they do they will change but they aren't so they aren't going to change.

 

[Texas Barbie]

FP+ isn't a deal breaker for me. I will always stay onsite because they pick me and my family up at the airport, take us there and provide a secure environment for our entire stay. I can travel alone with grandchildren, or my daughters in law and not have to worry about getting robbed or lost. To me, that's what the Disney bubble is really about. Everything else is icing on the cake.

 

[AmyB2006]

Who I feel really sorry for are the DVC owners who are stuck with decades of a lesser experience than what they bought into.

Don't feel sorry for all of us. I'm still a happy owner.

 

[JimmyV]

The perks for staying onsite is still there. I don't understand your logic in the least. Can you explain better.

I think what the OP is trying to argue is that if the overall enjoyment level decreases but the cost does not, people will start to look for ways to shave the costs, and that might include staying off site. It isn't really tied to "perks" from what I can tell.

For example, assume that you go to WDW annually and stay at the Poly. You pay $465 per night for your room. To make things easy, we'll assume that all food, admission and souvenier purchases would remain the same irrespective of whether you stay on or off site. (Though it is likely that an off site guest will trade in a $200 on site dinner for a $75 off site dinner once in a while, but we will ignore that for now). So your lodging costs $3255 plus tax and fees. Now, in each of your prior annual visits, you have enjoyed on average, 24 rides a day at the MK, doing headliners multiple times, avoiding long lines by doing RD and using FP- to your advantage. Now, with FP+, you still do RD, and you use your 3 FP+, but you find that you are spending more time in lines than ever before, and you now average 18 rides per day. If that turns out to be true, (and I am not suggesting that it will, but I think that the OP's whole point depends on this new trend), you might think to yourself: "You know...when we were doing 24 rides a day, including 3 on SM, 3 on BTMRR and 2 on Splash, I didn't mind spending $3500 on lodging. But now that we are riding fewer rides and standing in longer lines, I'm not getting the same bang for the buck as I used to. I still enjoy going to WDW, but for me, it is now not worth the hugh expenditure. I can get a condo off the property for $90 a night. So for a week, I will spend $700 instead of $3500. For that difference in price, I will gladly return to WDW. But for $3500 in lodging costs, I'm not feeling the magic any more."

So it really has nothing to do with on site vs. off site perks. It has more to do with what the loss of FP- might mean to certain "commando" families. People who only rode 12-18 rides a day aren't likely to care at all. But people who were attraction commandos might view FP+ as a downgrade to their overall enjoyment. Which is not to say that they will never return. But when they do return, they might think long and hard about what they are paying for. Now, don't shoot the messenger, because I am not necessarily buying into anything that I posted here. But I do think that this is the root of what the OP is trying to convey.

 

[ArwenMarie]

But people who were attraction commandos might view FP+ as a downgrade to their overall enjoyment. Which is not to say that they will never return. But when they do return, they might think long and hard about what they are paying for. Now, don't shoot the messenger, because I am not necessarily buying into anything that I posted here. But I do think that this is the root of what the OP is trying to convey.

I think this will happen for many people. If what they are getting seems to be reduced, they will see that as a price increase and then look for ways to spend less. Maybe they will decide to stay offsite, spend less at Disney, spend less time at Disney and more time at the pool and eating offsite. Maybe see Universal as well as Disney. Maybe stay onsite at Universal and see Disney from there...etc.

 

[kristinradico]

Personally for us, we were going back and forth between staying at Shades of Green or Art of Animation. One thing that swayed our decision when we booked a few months ago was at that time AoA had Magic Bands and being able to book FP+ 60 days in advance.

 

[Love Tink]

For my up coming visit in May I have a 2 bedroom, 2 bathroom condo 5 min disney for 1/4 of the price I would pay to stay at the All Star.

Just as a side note...a room at the All Stars in May costs $123 (weekday). So you're saying that your condo costs $30 per night...I can't speak for you, but if I was planning to stay at accommodations that cost $30 a night, I would have bigger worries than my potential for reserving Fastpasses.

 

[sonofanarchy]

Another DVC owner here who is excited about not going "Park Commando" and rope drop. We will be at Board Walk in June and already planning nice walks to HS or EPCOT to enjoy the parks at our leisure and ride TSM and Soarin'. Last trip I never got to ride Soarin' . . . fastpass- were all gone by the time we got there. Love my DVC!!!

Yeah.....What's not to love?

What does this have to do with owning DVC? You could do what you're doing staying at the Swan or Dolphin for half the price.

I'm sorry, but people that say they love DVC because they can just enjoy the resort instead of the parks...I don't get that. You could enjoy MUCH nicer resorts all over the world for a fraction of what you paid to be DVC owners. You paid the premium for DVC because it's on Disney property. Why bother joining DVC if you really don't care about the parks?

 

[kittyab]

It doesn't change anything for us at all. we stay on property because we love being there. FP+ has nothing to do with it.

Same here.

In fact, the last time we went to Bush Gardens in VA, you could pay extra for fast pass. I wont be surprised to see Disney do the same you can buy extra FP+ picks.

 

[JimmyV]

Just as a side note...a room at the All Stars in May costs $123 (weekday). So you're saying that your condo costs $30 per night...I can't speak for you, but if I was planning to stay at accommodations that cost $30 a night, I would have bigger worries than my potential for reserving Fastpasses.

Yeah. That's why I used the Poly in my example. While I am seeing All Star prices up around $150+ most of the time, no matter what cost base I use, I cannot take 1/4 of that and map that over to any off site accomodation that I would ever think about staying in. However, if you have a family of 5 or 6 and usually get two rooms, then ($150x2)/(4)=$75, and you are then starting to get close to the cost of a two bedroom condo with a kitchen. We are a family of 3, so we never have to worry about any of this. But most of the families of 5+ that I know stay off site rather than book 2 WDW rooms. (Not going to get in to the "four plus an air mattress on the sly" debate.)

 

[sethschroeder]

What it changes for us is - we are not buying park tickets. We will stay onsite (because we love the ease of it) but we are not visiting the parks. I don't want my vacation to be that scheduled, and tech-dependant

OH PLEASE! *rolling eyes* you must realize you don't need to schedule ahead of time and you don't need to have any tech on you in the parks... You can make it just like FP- where you go to a place in the park to "pull" your passes except you get all 3 at 1 time and are able to schedule the time.

 

[stairstepmom]

JimmyV explained it pretty perfectly. My knee-jerk reaction to the loss of FP- was that we would not be back for a good while, at least 4-5 years. We are a family of 10 (and also take grandma and grandpa with us) so staying onsite is crazy expensive. Our trip last month was a splurge, with a 2 bd and a studio at VWL for 10 nights, but not something we can financially maintain every year.

FP+ did translate to less rides than we experienced in our 2012 trip. We were there during the changeover at MK so it wasn't just a speculated difference - we actually experienced it both ways in real time - on Sunday we had paper FPs and rode everything we wanted as many times as we wanted with minimal waits. My DS4 rode BTMRR for the first time and was blissed out, shouting "Let's do it again!" Best moment and I was thrilled to say YES and go grab a paper FP, then do a few other rides and come back. On Thursday FP was gone, and so was my YES - I had to explain that we had just used our one FP+ for BTMRR, the line was 45 min and we had a dining reservation we couldn't miss (I left out the part about getting charged $120 if we decided that our 4 year old's joyful spontaneity should be embraced LOL!) and honestly, some of my kids with special needs couldn't make a 45 min line. Lucky for us, we had 2 more MK days after that so my little adventurer got to ride that puppy a few more times We adapted to FP+ by going slower, taking breaks and hanging out at the resort, spreading out ride repeats.

So...our conclusion was that we still got to do everything we wanted, and everything we could do with paper FPs and planning and early rising, but it took more days to do it. And more days = more money. Especially for a family our size.

And so, FP+ has pushed us offsite. Our choices would be to stay onsite for 10 nights every 3-4 years, stay onsite every 1-2 years for 5 or 6 nights and get less of an experience than we got previously, or stay offsite 10 nights every 1-2 years and still get to do all the rides/repeats and shows we want to do. And hey we get to save some cash on food too and say goodbye to a few $120 cancelation decisions! For us it was a no-brainer, for Disney it's losing $5k every 1-2 years or $8k every 3-4 from us.

Good thing the mouse has got some deep pockets - that's just peanuts!

 

[kittyab]

Yeah.....What's not to love?

What does this have to do with owning DVC? You could do what you're doing staying at the Swan or Dolphin for half the price.

I'm sorry, but people that say they love DVC because they can just enjoy the resort instead of the parks...I don't get that. You could enjoy MUCH nicer resorts all over the world for a fraction of what you paid to be DVC owners. You paid the premium for DVC because it's on Disney property. Why bother joining DVC if you really don't care about the parks?

We bought into the DVC not to just to go to Orlando... we plan to go to the other properties as well.

 

[Viva Las Disney]

So it really has nothing to do with on site vs. off site perks. It has more to do with what the loss of FP- might mean to certain "commando" families. People who only rode 12-18 rides a day aren't likely to care at all. But people who were attraction commandos might view FP+ as a downgrade to their overall enjoyment. Which is not to say that they will never return. But when they do return, they might think long and hard about what they are paying for. Now, don't shoot the messenger, because I am not necessarily buying into anything that I posted here. But I do think that this is the root of what the OP is trying to convey.

Good point, even on my trip to WDW when I was touring commando style (to try and see it all) my best day was 21 rides, and that was in a slow week in Dec and solo with no kids or stragglers to slow me down. Even though I wanted to get in as many rides as possible I still stopped for many shows, parades, scenery, photopass stops, etc. that I ran across. I'd rather ride 15-20 rides while stopping to enjoy the rest the parks have to offer than ride 25-30 rides commando style.

Maybe you're on to something and that's why so many of us are okay with FP+ and don't see what the big deal is.

 

[sethschroeder]

We bought into the DVC not to just to go to Orlando... we plan to go to the other properties as well.

Don't worry he is just upset. I can't begin to say how wrong he is... Flights alone make any overseas vacations almost impossible unless we go budget the rest of the trip.

Heck a flight to Australia, Italy, Fiji is roughly $3000+ for two while my room(when renting DVC points)+flight at Disney starts to approach that cost....

 

[mickeysgirl17]

Yes resort guests can reserve their 3 fp's, but imo, that is a downgrade from what you got with the original system. The old system of getting fp for as many attractions as they can and for as many top tier attractions. I have read multiple threads where resort guests don't see the new system as a perk but a deterrent. I am saying that the system still needs to be seriously tweaked so that people feel like they are paying for MORE and not getting less.

I would agree. This new FP+ system seems like a downgrade from before. To me, it doesn't matter if you are a resort guest or a day guest as the new system affects everyone. Before, you could get unlimited fastpasses as long as they were available, but now we are limited. This is a downgrade. Its my opinion that we will have to wait on more standby lines than before and that they will likely be longer considering everyone is limited on fastpasses and more people will have to wait standby.

I'm surprised Disney didn't test a different method that gives resort guests better perks such as limiting fastpasses to day guests to 2 or 3 fastpasses, but give resort guests unlimited fastpasses. Now that would be a perk.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Who I feel really sorry for are the DVC owners who are stuck with decades of a lesser experience than what they bought into.

We can use the exchange and choose an alternate destination..

 

[sonofanarchy]

Don't worry he is just upset. I can't begin to say how wrong he is... Flights alone make any overseas vacations almost impossible unless we go budget the rest of the trip.

Heck a flight to Australia, Italy, Fiji is roughly $3000+ for two while my room(when renting DVC points)+flight at Disney starts to approach that cost....

Upset?

What about exactly?