Foreclosure Question- advice/knowledge needed

[Belle1962]

I'd consider it a robbery and file a claim against my homeowners policy.

 

[froglady]

I'm guessing the OP doesn't have homeowner's insurance, as it's a privately held mortgage.

It sounds like a terrible mess for ALL involved. Don't forget that the 87 year old owner JUST lost her husband, and she herself may be facing astronomical costs due to non-covered expenses, funeral expenses, etc. She also has a lien on the house (other mortgages) and hasn't gotten any income from the OP to pay HER mortgage, so she herself is probably also facing foreclosure. Then, she has probably been informed that because the OP is in bankruptcy, she may NEVER get any more money. (She's 87, so may very well die before this is all straightened out) If her situation is anything like my mother's, she may have had HER income cut in half, as she would only be able to keep ONE social security payment, instead of two. I don't think she's so much crazy as desperate, and is trying to prepare the house for a quick sale in an attempt to recover some of her equity. It's not as if she's a bank or mortgage company, and has other resources to tide her over until this is all settled.

IMO, anyone who holds a mortgage on a house is crazy! I personally would not want to have any financial/legal ties to a previous owner if I were the buyer, or to the new owner if I were the seller. I especially would not want to give up all of my rights (transferring the deed, etc) but still be dependent upon someone else's financial situation in order to keep my equity. It's like being a landlord, but with less legal redress.

 

[kilee]

It sounds like a terrible mess for ALL involved. Don't forget that the 87 year old owner JUST lost her husband, and she herself may be facing astronomical costs due to non-covered expenses

The 87 yr old women lost her husband in 2002 (around Halloween). It happened shortly after we moved in there. I know she probably still misses him and all, but it didn't just happen. As for money-- oh no---- she's loaded. Always has been. I'm not joking when I say she spends 4-5 days per week at the Casino or Bingo Hall. She pays only cash for cars and she gets a new one about every 18 months. Let's just not feel bad for Ms. Doe's financial situation because she is wealthy. It's well known around town that she is crazy, and she is welll off.

I'm guessing the OP doesn't have homeowner's insurance, as it's a privately held mortgage.

We sure did have homeowners. It was mandatory. The mortgage was private. But it was all done and handled the same as if we had gone through Wells & Fargo. The people who held the mortgage did this on 30+ some homes. It was a business for them. My husband has actually been in touch back and forth w/ the insurance company this morning so we'll see what they say.

 

[Nancyg56]

We sure did have homeowners. It was mandatory. The mortgage was private. But it was all done and handled the same as if we had gone through Wells & Fargo. The people who held the mortgage did this on 30+ some homes. It was a business for them. My husband has actually been in touch back and forth w/ the insurance company this morning so we'll see what they say.

I also had a privately held mortgage and it was drawn up the same way, with all of the protections as though the lender was a bank.

 

[Beth76]

I think I would probably head back down the police station and start over. Report a break-in, theft, damaged property and tresspassing. I'm not sure how you worded it yesterday when you arrived, but I'm guessing you just told your story, which in a way does kind of sound like a civil matter. But really, if you still own the home, no one else had a right to be there, much less steal your stuff. How did they get in anyway? Did the old lady have a key?

ETA: Actually go to the house and call 911 (or just the local police number) and report a break-in. Make them come to your home. If anyone here had someone break-in to their house, they would call the police, not go down to the police station.

 

[Tybug]

There is soooo much info posted here but only a few items are of any importance.

1. YOU own the house!
2. YOUR items have been stolen!
3. for whatever reason your neighbors were cleaning YOUR pool when you arrived.

This is breaking and entering! Furthermore, it was broken into WHILE you were at the police department! I'm going to assume the officer that visited your mortgage holder knew that the contractor was contacted to come remove the items he left in YOUR house!

I would do a few things.

1. Go back to the house and call 911
2. Report the break in... just the break in... nothing else is important
3. GET AN ATTY!!! ASAP!! As someone else pointed out, you can't afford to NOT get one!
4. I'd get the contractor(once you find out who it is) back over to YOUR house and have him finish whatever work he was doing, that is if he can't restore YOUR house to the way it was before he started doing whatever it was he was doing. And no... there would be no payment!


Remember... YOU own your house until the deed is legally transferred over to the mortgage holder.

Please don't let these people walk all over you.

 

[luvmarypoppins]

Just wanted to send you a Not too much advice to give. Maybe you could pm summerluvv, dont know if I am spelling that right. She works for a lawyer in NY. Maybe she could find out some info for you. Can you mil help you in any way? I know you mentioned her before. Hoping things turn out well for you. Hang in there.

 

[froglady]

Well, if you think she's just being nasty because the law allows you to reduce the amount of money you will pay on the debt you owe her, you still should get your own lawyer to make sure that SHE doesn't have a legal leg to stand on. Real estate law is very, very tricky, as I found out the hard way. There is often a huge difference between what is legal and what is right, KWIM?

For all you know (since you have not consulted a real estate attorney) she is proceeding on the advice of HER attorney, or following a directive from a probate judge, and she has a legitimate legal reason to believe she has a right to do everything she's doing. The policeman may have been absolutely correct in stating that it is truly a civil case, not criminal.

If, as you say, this is a long time business with 30+ mortgages, I suspect that she has gone down this road before, so she (or whoever is handling her business) might know more about the legality of what she's doing. She may have been contacted by the bankruptcy court, or lien holders, or who knows? Or, she might just be crazy...but rich, and can buy her way out of trouble.

Can whoever is handling your bankruptcy check for you?

Forgot to add: If you have Title Insurance, NOW is the time to contact them. You will still have to contact your OWN lawyer, as it's difficult to get them to respond to a title dispute (and with all of the liens on your property, this might be a title dispute) without an attorney contacting them.

 

[kilee]

GET AN ATTY!!! ASAP!! As someone else pointed out, you can't afford to NOT get one

As we all said, an attorney would be great-- but I called 3 this morning all want a minimum of $1000.00 retainer-- I don't have a $1000.00. Can't get money you don't have- the only way I'd have that is if I didn't pay my rent this month- and that just puts us back at square one w/ not paying the bills and getting behind. So, for right now it's not an option.

The bankruptcy attorney cannot help w/ the stolen property he said. He said she didn't even start foreclosure officially and therefore there is nothing he legally can do as it's out of his specialty. He apologized but said there is really nothing we can do.

Someone mentioned legal aid- we did contact them about an hr ago as well- our income is too high for them. Gotta love it- too high to get assistance, but not enough to pay for our own attorney. It's the way of this country the people stuck right in the middle actually have it the worst in some scenario's.

_______________________

Now aside from that I did go back to the police station today. I was able to speak w/ the chief of police. He said according to Ms. Doe's side of the story she is in fact acting on the advice of her attorney- but of course the attorney cannot be reached. He did say the following:

1.) If she cannot provide paperwork showing she in fact has a final foreclosure w/ an expired notice to vacate the property- we can press charges against her for breaking & entering, burglary, and trespassing.
Now, the ironic part-- she's well known in town-- and he said- "but of course we'd like to not have to go that route. If I can get your property back or the funds to replace the property I'm hoping you'll just drop this."

2.) I went to file the small claims complaint-- in this small town you actually file it w/ the police officer. He said "well we'll have to push this off a month or two because Ms. Doe is having knee replacement surgery today and it will be difficult for her to handle this right now". That's real nice. I had a speeding ticket once, and tried to get the court date changed for traffic court because the day prior to court my husband was a pedestrian hit by a car and was in ICU. Do you know they made me jump through hoops to change that date---- yet we happen to know Ms. Doe is having surgery so let's give her time to recover before we serve her w/ the small claims paperwork. Tell me this isn't biased!!!!!!

He's supposed to call me later today or tomorrow-- he's waiting for a call back from the attorney. He did call the county clerk's office, who did in fact verify that we still owned the property and that no foreclosure paperwork had been filed.

I'm not an attorney, but I did a lot of research last night and according to what I could find she has no right to do what she's done (even in a private mortgage), and it doesn't qualify under abandoment law--- #1 we were still going there on a regular basis, we were maintaining insurance and utilities-- and even if these things didn't apply-- there is a much longer timeframe that has to pass than what did to be considered abandoment.

 

[Youarehere]

Sounds like B&E to me too. I agree with everyone- go to the house and call the police to report the crime. You tried to be nice about it, but no one else is. It was your house and your stuff and it was stolen, nevermind that they are renovating your house without your permission!

 

[maelstrom]

Do you happen to live in a town by the name of Mayberry, Pixley, or Hooterville? Yikes!

It sounds like everyone is on the side of Miss Doe and is making you out to be the bad guy!

I can't offer any advice, but I hope you get things settled. This is unreal.

 

[kilee]

You'd think I lived there huh????? It is just a small village-- where 9 out of 10 people know each other. Ironically we lived there for 5 yrs and really don't know anyone. We kept to ourselves a lot.

 

[MosMom]

I would talk to the mortgage holder about it all. I would also be nice. From what I gather, the mortgage holder is offering to buy back your house. This would keep a foreclosure from happening, right? I would do anything possible to keep a foreclosure off your credit. You probably want to own a home again someday.

 

[kilee]

There has been no verbal contact between her or us for over 2 yrs now. It is not advised, because the last few times (2 yrs ago) it got heated-- she's really crazy and creates scenario's in her head. I know at that point her attorney and our bankruptcy attorney advised no further contact between us. W/ whatever it is she's pulling, it's won't turn out good to verbally confront her.

As for our credit, it's shot w/ the bankruptcy and the leins from the hospitals and such.

I'm sitting tight the police chief is supposed to make contact w/ us again tomorrow.

 

[tinatark]

As we all said, an attorney would be great-- but I called 3 this morning all want a minimum of $1000.00 retainer-- I don't have a $1000.00. Can't get money you don't have- the only way I'd have that is if I didn't pay my rent this month- and that just puts us back at square one w/ not paying the bills and getting behind. So, for right now it's not an option.

The bankruptcy attorney cannot help w/ the stolen property he said. He said she didn't even start foreclosure officially and therefore there is nothing he legally can do as it's out of his specialty. He apologized but said there is really nothing we can do.

Someone mentioned legal aid- we did contact them about an hr ago as well- our income is too high for them. Gotta love it- too high to get assistance, but not enough to pay for our own attorney. It's the way of this country the people stuck right in the middle actually have it the worst in some scenario's.

_______________________

Now aside from that I did go back to the police station today. I was able to speak w/ the chief of police. He said according to Ms. Doe's side of the story she is in fact acting on the advice of her attorney- but of course the attorney cannot be reached. He did say the following:

1.) If she cannot provide paperwork showing she in fact has a final foreclosure w/ an expired notice to vacate the property- we can press charges against her for breaking & entering, burglary, and trespassing.
Now, the ironic part-- she's well known in town-- and he said- "but of course we'd like to not have to go that route. If I can get your property back or the funds to replace the property I'm hoping you'll just drop this."

2.) I went to file the small claims complaint-- in this small town you actually file it w/ the police officer. He said "well we'll have to push this off a month or two because Ms. Doe is having knee replacement surgery today and it will be difficult for her to handle this right now". That's real nice. I had a speeding ticket once, and tried to get the court date changed for traffic court because the day prior to court my husband was a pedestrian hit by a car and was in ICU. Do you know they made me jump through hoops to change that date---- yet we happen to know Ms. Doe is having surgery so let's give her time to recover before we serve her w/ the small claims paperwork. Tell me this isn't biased!!!!!!

He's supposed to call me later today or tomorrow-- he's waiting for a call back from the attorney. He did call the county clerk's office, who did in fact verify that we still owned the property and that no foreclosure paperwork had been filed.

I'm not an attorney, but I did a lot of research last night and according to what I could find she has no right to do what she's done (even in a private mortgage), and it doesn't qualify under abandoment law--- #1 we were still going there on a regular basis, we were maintaining insurance and utilities-- and even if these things didn't apply-- there is a much longer timeframe that has to pass than what did to be considered abandoment.

Think about what the police/other residents see - an elderly widow, who financed a house a few years ago. Residents filed BKY, stopped making payments (you've said when you moved, but never when you last made a payment), moved out in July - she hires someone to renovate the house so she can attempt to recoup some of her losses - whether she is loaded or not, it is still income she has lost an cannot replace - in September, the people, who moved out in July, have come back to get stuff they didn't take with them when they moved - call the police, etc. to get into the house.

Sorry to the op, but whether you are technically the owner or not, you have a privately held mortgage you didn't pay, you know the mortgage holder wants access to the house, but you move out and don't take all your stuff.
She will be screwed even further when the bky court chooses to liquidate the house, to pay your outstanding debts, her debt is converted to unsecured instead of secured, and she will be lucky to get pennies ofn the dollat for the debt she is owed.

 

[BabyPiglet]

What a situation. Go down and talk to the police again, all this sounds extremely extremely fishy.

 

[kilee]

Sorry to the op, but whether you are technically the owner or not, you have a privately held mortgage you didn't pay, you know the mortgage holder wants access to the house, but you move out and don't take all your stuff.
She will be screwed even further when the bky court chooses to liquidate the house, to pay your outstanding debts, her debt is converted to unsecured instead of secured, and she will be lucky to get pennies ofn the dollat for the debt she is owed.

The house is not being liquidated to pay any debt. All the debt we incurred is "dischargeable" under the bankruptcy laws. We had 98% medical debt, I said before- NO- not a single one credit card debt, and we had gotten behind on the mortgage/property taxes- which makes up 2% of the actual total of debt.

As for not moving all of our items, time was not an issue yet. We were still maintaining the upkeep on the house, and there was still time.

As for the eldery women-- none of this was intended personally toward her. We went from a salary of $5500.00/mo to $2200/mo-- they took the bankruptcy money off the top of that because it was the minimum we could pay and was set up when our income was higher. It left us w/ just over $300/mo for several months. That is how bad my husbands job hauling steel got. He could not find another job to pay him much more. Used to be in this area that the want ads would be 8-10 pgs long daily- now it's lucky if they're 1.5 pages, maybe 3 on a Sunday. Things happen, beyond your control. My husband was in the ICU, had 6 surgeries- and needed homecare for IV antibiotics he was on for 6 weeks post-hopsital stay- at a cost of $300.00 an injection- 4 injections a day (that is just for the meds). All this uncovered by insurance, we got lower disability pay, and Medicaid denied us. So, we went from getting along just fine---- to a medical financial nightmare. We were able to get 2 grants to help it some of the expenses-- but we still wound up w/ $90,000+ in medical bills. Unfortunately, they began attacking our wages and bank account, which put us in further peril. So, while you might think I have no cares about the "elderly women" who is out all of this now, we loved our house, we loved my son's school- but it got to a point there was no further choice.

I still don't see where that gives her a right to be above the law and not have to follow any structure to going through a foreclosure. There is a huge difference between renting and holding a mortgage. There are laws for both, and she didn't follow a single law in this situation at all.