For veteran DiSsers with autistic children...

[Poohnatic]

MBW,

Your choice of time is actually pretty good. It does get a little busy with the exodus from the cold, but still VERY manageable.

As I've said, we've been waved through at most of the rides. While WDW will do the minimum of what's expected by the ADA, I've found that most of the CM's will do whatever it takes to help you out when you're actually at the attractions and ready to board. The only place that doesn't happen is the one ride I mentioned.

We're an hour away from WDW now, and in the time since we've moved, our approach has changed somewhat, but the assistance that the GAC has provided still has been a Godsend. I'd rather be segregated out than have my son meltdown, but I understand that not everyone feels the same about the alternate waiting.

Suzanne

 

[krismom]

I have previously used the GAC and it was a lifesaver. This past trip I tried to get a new one at MGM guest services and was told, "we are only issuing these for Make a wisk and Give Kids the World kids now." When I questioned this, she said, "is your son terminally ill?". I can't begin to describe my anger! No! he's not "ill" in any way, and yes! he's right in front of you!!!!! I was so floored by her- she eventually agreed to the "stroller as a wheelchair" stamp, which was pretty useless to us.Plus, she took the old card when we got the new (useless) one, so I was worries about trying to get the right stamps the following day.I had no problem getting the stamps I originally asked for at MK the next day. When I wrote geust services after we got home they responded with, "we are sorry you had a less than magical experience... and attributed it to training CM's for Hong Kong Disney. (The girl was american!) Anyway- this just goes to show you that their "policy" isn't always standard and to keep trying different CM's.

 

[MBW]

Suzanne, I think it's the lack of consistency which concerns me more than anything. Allowing individual CMs how to handle these situations is problematic - there really should be a written policy which is adherred to, even if it's not the one we want. At least that way, we can lobby to have it changed. But by setting a "there's no expediting autistic kids" with a "wink, wink" (as in, most CMs do it anyway) precedent, I think it undermines our higher cause of getting the general public and venues such as Disney to truly understand our kids' needs.

 

[Tissa]

We've used the GAC on both of our trips and never had a problem in either getting or using one. I just went in to guest services at MGM and told them what we needed and got it right away. Our first trip was over Spring break and the last in June and never had a long wait except at Pirates because we had to wait for a CM to come to take us the back way. DS ended up freaking out and tried to jump out of the boat so we'll avoid that and Buzz next time. This pass is a lifesaver for autistic children and I'm so gald it's available.

 

[3kidsmommy]

I feel that this shows that Disney doesn't in fact "get it" when it comes to accomodating neurologically disabled individuals, or that maybe they do, but don't really care, because they've believe they've fulfilled the minimum requirements of ADA.

Asking most children with classic (or Kanner's) autism to wait for more than a few minutes is like asking someone who is deaf to hear, or a paraplegic to walk - it is not within their cognitive ability to do so. Thus, handing them a FastPass and asking them to wait isn't an accomodation, just because it's not waiting in a line. It's still waiting. I know it's very hard for most people who don't deal daily with autistic individuals to truly understand how debilitating it is for these kids not to have that kind of control over such a basic cognitive ability. It's not about simply learning the skill, like every two year old eventually has to - learning itself is the biggest problem for individuals with autism - their brains just don't put things together like neuro-typical brains do. I can reason with my two year old, and even though she'll whine and cry because she just _wanst_ to do something, she does in fact understand. Even if I explain something like sharing a million times to my seven yr. old, he will act out in the exact same manner the very next time he's asked to share, because it just doesn't register.

If you have an NT two-year old who won't enjoy WDW because they can't handle not getting on the ride immediately, you have one option those of us with autistic kids don't - wait to visit until they're old enough to get the waiting thing. If we tried to do that, we'd never be able to go, because my kids, without a miracle cure, won't ever get it.

So we generally make our own accomodation by going when there are few lines. I'm hoping that my choice of late (post-Presidents week) February - early (pre-spring break) March works for us. If not, I've learned my lesson. But I won't fool myself that Disney is really doing its best to accomodate my kids if they think getting a FastPass like everyone else is actually an accomodation, because it's not. FOTL is an appropriate accomodation, but one which sends many people, even those with non-neuro disabilities, into orbit with indignation.

(Sometimes I think the new "quiet place to wait" option is really to accomodate non-autistic guests in line - my kid is going to meltdown where ever he's asked to wait - at least he won't be bothering other guests if he's segregated. Out of sight, out of mind. Perhaps we should allow him to meltdown in line and let others see what it really means for these kids to have to wait.)

Oh well, enough of a rant. Off to try and plan our own strategies for making magic.

Oh, THANK YOU, MBW for saying what was on my mind. As the mom of a 7 yo son who just happens to have autism, as well as 2 neurotypical children ages 6 and 10 you have put into words what I have long tried to get people to understand. Chandler doesn't THINK like normal children. He functions on a 3 year old level, but doesn't even have the reasoning abilities of them. I often wonder if society thinks we should just stay home and give up vacationing...doesn't seem fair to Chan or to my other two children...

 

[MBW]

Oh, THANK YOU, MBW for saying what was on my mind. As the mom of a 7 yo son who just happens to have autism, as well as 2 neurotypical children ages 6 and 10 you have put into words what I have long tried to get people to understand. Chandler doesn't THINK like normal children. He functions on a 3 year old level, but doesn't even have the reasoning abilities of them. I often wonder if society thinks we should just stay home and give up vacationing...doesn't seem fair to Chan or to my other two children...

Don't give up. One of the reasons we started writing the travel book for neuro-exceptional kids is we feel families of autistics just don't have the support and resources to do what most "normal" family try to do (travel), although we truly need the respite vacation provides.

But I don't think we should be grateful for crumbs. Some of the current Disney policies make rides with longer waits as inaccessible to autistic individuals as they would be if they only had stairs to someone in a wheelchair. Ironically, for autistic kids, no physical modifications are even needed - only policy ones, and the willingness of Disney management to acknowledge that austism is actually a medical disability, with real symptoms and behaviors, and not just the side effect of bad parenting. Because if they really believed it's physiological, then accomodations such as express access and riding again w/o reboarding are more appropriate than handing out FastPasses.

Eh, I need to get off my butt and start lobbying Disney myself for these changes, and not just rant here on Dis . We were pretty successful getting some policies altered by the NPS and Forest Service during our trip, so there's nothing lost trying it with Disney as well.

 

[3kidsmommy]

I wanted to tell you about a park near me that is WONDERFUL for autistic kids--it is called Holiday World. It is located in Santa Claus, IN and their accomodations ROCK! When we go, Chandler receives a pass that allows him to enter through exits, wait only minimally (like if the ride is going, he has to wait for it to stop) and he can ride 2x without getting on and off. We have ridden up to 4x on his favorite things that spin. ALL of the workers seem to know about autism and it's related umbrella disorders. They are helpful and go out of their way. Anyway, just wanted you to know about them--they would be worth looking into for your travel book. I would be happy to give you any more info you might want--and they have a website as well. I think it is www.holidayworld.com.
As for giving up--nah, can't do that. I ENJOY my son too much, I love learning how he sees the world in a different light and I have had the opportunity to learn more patience than I ever thought possible...

 

[mbb]

for 2 reasons:
1) our first trip - had no idea such a thing even existed
2) We travel in Jan/Feb..

...and both our kids are on the spectrum..honestly, the longest we've waited was 45 minutes for a trip to Neverland (last ride, last day, at lunch time) We had snacks, Gameboys, and left a gap in the line so the kids had some twirling room.

We're there at park openings, ride the headliners, sometimes 3,4,..as many as 6 times in a row. Brunch, or early lunch, and we're in the pools by 1pm.

We've seen the Share a Dream Come True Parade once, and that was the only thing we did that particular day in the parks.


HTH with your planning

 

[DisneyDreams4P&B]

Asking most children with classic (or Kanner's) autism to wait for more than a few minutes is like asking someone who is deaf to hear, or a paraplegic to walk - it is not within their cognitive ability to do so.


Wow what a great quote. I am going to use that! It is so true...

We ended up not going on the cruise,(due to our moving) so we opted for a WDW vacation instead. I think it turned out better.

The services down here at least what we have found have been pretty good, barring a few scraps with the school board, but he got moved to another school with a great teacher, so we are crossing our fingers...

 

[MBW]

45 minutes! My bugs would be melted pools of mush if they had to wait 45 minutes for any ride, though they probably would have cleared out the surrounding acre with their harpy-like screams, providing for fairly quick access

for 2 reasons:
1) our first trip - had no idea such a thing even existed
2) We travel in Jan/Feb..

...and both our kids are on the spectrum..honestly, the longest we've waited was 45 minutes for a trip to Neverland (last ride, last day, at lunch time) We had snacks, Gameboys, and left a gap in the line so the kids had some twirling room.

We're there at park openings, ride the headliners, sometimes 3,4,..as many as 6 times in a row. Brunch, or early lunch, and we're in the pools by 1pm.

We've seen the Share a Dream Come True Parade once, and that was the only thing we did that particular day in the parks.


HTH with your planning

I'd love to get to the park early, but DH is kind of a slug. Add the fact that he (gasp!) doesn't care for WDW (calls it RatLand), I'm lucky if I can get him motivated by 9 or 10. I expect he'll make any argument he can for staying at the pool all day. I'm bribing him with an evening at V&As, to hopefully inspire good behavior.

I'm probably over-compensating, as I have a skewed view of crowds in WDW, since the last time we took all the kids was the week of Sept. 11, 2001. We walked onto nearly every ride and generally only needed the GAC for stroller-as-WC use. I expect anything different to be much more difficult to manage, especially since Jonah's issues are more fully developed (not in a good way) and we've a pre-schooler (NT, but otherwise a major pill) added to the mix. And the M/S thang is new this time. As I said, if I knew just what to expect, I could plan better. It's the inconsistency and otherwise general not knowing which drive me nuts (not a long trip, I know )

I'll just keep trudging along with my plans, and start that letter writing campaign requesting better access in my copious spare time . Glad you all had a lovely trip.

 

[mbb]

... though they probably would have cleared out the surrounding acre with their harpy-like screams, providing for fairly quick access

Oh, we had screams
Sorry if I sounded like all was fairy-tale like in the line of "Never-getting-to-the-ride-Land"

"nooowwwwww, mommy, nooooooowwwwww!!!"

But the gameboys, and snack, distract, redirect, all of the tricks we had..so that waiting isn't just waiting..it's stories, it's finger plays..it's a knapsack that weighs 20 pounds of replenishable junk that you-just-never-know-if-we'll-need-it

Waiting is everywhere - we've just become adept at creating something out of the waiting!!LOL - and grateful that with our two, we can. Trips anywhere now have become doable, based on our experiences at WDW.

...and knowing that our strategies are nowhere near what other kids need...ie, direct access., please, let me know what letters I can write, as well

Awareness..and hope...

And we're there Feb5-27

 

[MBW]

And we're there Feb5-27

MB, we overlap for 2 days. We're there Feb 26 - March 6.

 

[bopper]

Not trying to start a fight...but if your child cannot handle waiting in lines at all (does not understand he cannot do the activity RIGHT NOW!), then is a vacation that involves all lines for all attractions the best vacation for him?

 

[MBW]

Not trying to start a fight...but if your child cannot handle waiting in lines at all (does not understand he cannot do the activity RIGHT NOW!), then is a vacation that involves all lines for all attractions the best vacation for him?

But I'll bite.

Do you feel that a vacation which involves lots of stairs is the best vacation for someone who cannot walk?

Do you feel that a vacation which involves most directions written in Roman characters is the best vacation for someone who is blind?

Do you feel that a vacation with most attractions involving speech or music is the best one for someone who is hearing impaired?

The concept behind accommodation is making as many venues as possible accessible for as many people as possible. In some instances, that means major physical adjustments, such as ramps. In others, it means providing additional supports, such as translations into Braille or sign-language interpreters. For individuals with certain neurological or developmental disabilities, it means changing policies.

So to answer your question as best as I can (and in the intent of the ADA, IMO), no, a vacation which involves lines at all attractions is not the best vacation for my sons, who cannot wait in lines for long periods.

So get rid of the lines.

 

[sadeeyore]

My DS is 9, has autism and a learning disability. He has very little understanding of having to wait for a long time. We have always found WDW (and Universal) to be really helpful. We don't expect to get onto a ride with no wait, but we could never wait for 45minutes.
I remember the first time we went to Universal (August 2004), my DS wanted to watch Shrek 3D. It was the first thing he had really wanted to go into, but the wait was well over an hour. We hadn't realised we could use Universals GAC at that attraction, so we stood in line for 30 minutes, then my DS decided he needed to go home. He has very little speech and understanding, but "home" is one of the words he uses when he needs to get away from something.
A CM told us how to use the GAC and we did get to see Shrek. Although he still found it really hard to settle afterwards, so we didn't stay long after that at the park.

I agree with MBW, - we are only asking for help to make the rides accessible to our children. WDW helps lots of people to make their vacation accessible. That includes people with all sorts of disabilities.

 

[bopper]

But I'll bite.

Do you feel that a vacation which involves lots of stairs is the best vacation for someone who cannot walk?

Do you feel that a vacation which involves most directions written in Roman characters is the best vacation for someone who is blind?

Do you feel that a vacation with most attractions involving speech or music is the best one for someone who is hearing impaired?

.

Honestly? No, I would not think the vacations you describe would be the best. I would not pick a mounting climbing vacation if I could not walk. I would not pick a vacation to look at Art or Paintings if I was blind. I would not pick a Orchestra concert tour if I could not hear. I would not pick a beach vacation if I was allergic to the sun. I am not saying that there should not be accomodations for those who need them of course, but if I had a major problem with the whole basic premise of a venue (lines, climbing, etc), I would not necessarily spend a week or more at that venue.

If the fast pass is not acceptable to you, what would be?

 

[mbb]

Honestly? No, I would not think the vacations you describe would be the best. I would not pick a mounting climbing vacation if I could not walk. I would not pick a vacation to look at Art or Paintings if I was blind. I would not pick a Orchestra concert tour if I could not hear. I would not pick a beach vacation if I was allergic to the sun. I am not saying that there should not be accomodations for those who need them of course, but if I had a major problem with the whole basic premise of a venue (lines, climbing, etc), I would not necessarily spend a week or more at that venue.

If the fast pass is not acceptable to you, what would be?

It's not that you would or wouldn't want to go mountain climbing - it's that you could...because of your basic human right to be able to.

And I'm not sure if I said that well
I don't want to start anything either...I do know that if it weren't for the parents that came before me, my children, my family, and I wouldn't be where we are today.

So pass the torch, pay it forward...whatever..if I can help someone get up a mountain, I'm there.

If FP's aren't acceptable for some, then we need to "get it done...better"

 

[3kidsmommy]

I question whether bopper has ever been around a child with true autism. Or a child with really bad sensory integration disorder. Our kids can't stand lines, but like any child they have desires to see their favorite characters. They can't stand crowds in small places or waiting, but they crave motion and fun. Why should my child NOT have access to the same vacation venues as your child? Why should my friends child, who is in a wheelchair, not be able to go to a zoo? She can, so can my child go to Disney thanks in part to the ADA. WDW still needs to work on their policies because for each individual things are different. What my child may need (for instance, my child's threshold for waiting is a bit longer if not in a que line, but we could NEVER just get a piece of paper(FP) and not actually wait at the ride itself--in his mind he would think this means he doesn't get to ride) may be different from what another child with the same disability may need (for instance, a non-verbal child who can't explain that he or she needs to potty, eat, sit down, stand up, that the lights are too bright, the sounds too loud, etc.). Autism is a cruel diagnosis, really. As the child's parents we have to make constant accomodations and give up on our dreams of "normal". We have to deal with the fact that our children will forever live with us, and make arrangemetns for when we are no longer around to care for them. The siblings of our children DO NOT have a normal childhood. They are forever put on the back burner due to therapies, doc's appts, tantrums, meltdowns, and the need for a solid routine. A vacation is a break for the siblings as well. Fastpasses work for some, not for others. GAC's need to be very individual for each family. Working to make this the case means bringing our issues to the forefront.

 

[MBW]

Honestly? No, I would not think the vacations you describe would be the best. I would not pick a mounting climbing vacation if I could not walk. I would not pick a vacation to look at Art or Paintings if I was blind. I would not pick a Orchestra concert tour if I could not hear. I would not pick a beach vacation if I was allergic to the sun. I am not saying that there should not be accommodations for those who need them of course, but if I had a major problem with the whole basic premise of a venue (lines, climbing, etc), I would not necessarily spend a week or more at that venue.

If the fast pass is not acceptable to you, what would be?

Standing in line is part of the "getting to", not the end point, of any given attraction. Thus, your examples fail, as our kids don't go to Disney to stand in line, but to ride rides and see shows, just like every other kid. That is the goal. The obstacle, is the wait, just as stairs to many attractions used to be an obstacle for individuals in wheelchairs. So Disney built ramps, because that was really all that stood between them and enjoying their favorite Disney ride.

So what is an appropriate accommodation for individuals who will never have the capacity to "wait" like their NT peers? Express access. No more than a 15 minute wait.

There is only a tiny percentage of the population with such needs. Just what are your objections to accommodating them?

 

[JenJen]

I am having a hard time understand Why some of you feel your Children are not being accomidated at WDW or Disneyland. I am not trying to start anything I am just baffled that anyone could think that the accomidations are not good enough. I can totally understand that a child with autism can not be in a line with lots of people or have a hard time waiting in a line. Which Disney addresses and Accomidates. Are you upset because the don't have front of the line access? Do you feel your child needs to go right to the front and get right on?
The pass that is normally given is a alternate entrance pass for ASD. This pass has been awesome and I believe disney has gone beyond and above with there accomidations. Noramlly you go through fast pass (if it is a fast pass attraction) and you get in a quickly moving line that is maybe 10 minutes long. Sometimes on rare occasions they will give you a return time slip. You would wait the amount of time the que is. But you can leave and do other things you are not just standing there waiting for your turn. You can take your kids to another attraction, walk through the stores, or get a snack. If you do it right they will have no idea they are waiting for a ride because they will be having fun.
If you need more accomidations then the attraction is offering you. Lets say they want you to sit on a bench before a show starts away from the crowd and your child can not sit there you can always talk to the cast member and explain that you will be walking around because your child can not sit that long. Cast members are very helpful.
I think about 98% of our GAC experiances have been awesome. You will always get that brand new cast member that has no idea what they are doing but you have to learn at some time.
If you get to a attraction and you feel your needs are not being accomidated voice your opinon to the attractions hostess and I bet they will do anything in there power to help you out.
I really hope you have a great trip and I think that once you see how it works you will come back very pleased.
(((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))
Jen