For those who still want the redhead (POLL)

[Farro]

But there is a much, much smaller number of women being trafficked in America today than the number of American slaves who were sold at auction in the past. It's sad that trafficking happens, but that hasn't had the massive impact on our culture that slavery has had. Salvery not only destroyed and damaged many millions of lives in the past, its legacy still damages millions of people's lives today. It has had a much bigger negative impact on our culture than sex trafficking has, as wrong and hurtful as sex trafficking is. Slavery's legacy resonates with us deeply because of its mammoth impact on American culture- that's why you'll never, ever see it referenced on any ride, but why you might see references to other evil things like a wench auction, theft, murder, etc., that do not resonate so strongly with us as a culture.

So isn't it time that it should resonate strongly with us a culture? Not to get to deep, but the way women have been perceived in the past still has COUNTLESS ramifications today. Come on.

Luckily it is changing with our young women (and us tad older women also ) - thus possibly one of the reasons the ride may be changing.

 

[Farro]

By the way, I'm not upset as I'm posting, in case anyone was worried.

 

[MamaBelle4]

But it is a much, much smaller number that the number of slaves who were sold at auction in the past.

Currently:

1. Globally, the average cost of a slave is $90.
2. Trafficking primarily involves exploitation which comes in many forms, including: forcing victims into prostitution, subjecting victims to slavery or involuntary servitude and compelling victims to commit sex acts for the purpose of creating pornography.
3. According to some estimates, approximately 80% of trafficking involves sexual exploitation, and 19% involves labor exploitation.
4. There are approximately 20 to 30 million slaves in the world today.
5. According to the U.S. State Department, 600,000 to 800,000 people are trafficked across international borders every year, of which 80% are female and half are children.

(Via www.dosomething.org/us/facts/11-facts-about-human-trafficking)

Past:

In the 360 years between 1500 and the end of the slave trade in the 1860s, at least 12 million Africans were forcibly taken to the Americas - then known as the "New World" to European settlers. This largest forced migration in human history relocated some 50 ethnic and linguistic groups.

(Via: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/african-ame...cross/history/on-african-american-migrations/)

Perhaps people are just not aware how serious this is and how many women and young children are enslaved for sexual purposes?

 

[NeuroCindy]

Read the stories of these victims. It doesn't just happen "on occasion". It's estimated there's 20 to 30 MILLION human slaves around the world RIGHT NOW. 80% of those people are women and children.

https://www.dosomething.org/us/facts/11-facts-about-human-trafficking

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35846207

http://www.refinery29.com/2017/01/135596/sex-trafficking-story-jessa-dillow-crisp

http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=1596778

https://www.equalitynow.org/campaigns/trafficking-survivor-stories

 

[thevolcanogod]

I refuse to discuss the matter further as long as this forum is being heavily moderated to the point that some posts are being deleted and others are left alone. If we're discussing the subject it should be open for discussion or simply closed. Instead of moderators cherry picking (censoring) posts they don't agree with.

 

[Farro]

I've read the aforementioned posts, there is no serious discussion there, please don't reply to it!

 

[bumbershoot]

Listen, it doesn't change the fact that zero people would think of the sex trade by looking at a redhead in that photo but 100 percent of people would if it was a woman of color and would be called racism immediately

It's not looking at the redheadnin a photo that makes us think of the sex trade.

It's the fact that the women are being depicted while BEING SOLD *as "brides"* that makes us think of it. It could not be more obvious or in our faces.

The point I'm trying to make is nobody cared or even thought about it since the ride opened but you can be 1000 percent sure if it was someone of color, it would have never been included and there would have been an uproar.

So that's why I said it's not comparable.

Of course people thought of it! Why do you think it's being changed? They've probably had years of increasing comments about the scene that has brought them to this point.

As for uncomfortable things about people of color at Disney, have you ever seen Song of the South? Eh hem.



And in a more light vein, but one discussed in my multicultural family, where the heck does the Korean pair of dolls in it's a small world go at the end? They are there early in the ride but in the ending bit where everyone is wearing white they are gone. Yes wearing white in Korea is for funerals, but I think it's also that way for Japan but that couple is there (you can see her obi). Dh has been looking for them for years...

 

[MamaBelle4]

I refuse to discuss the matter further as long as this forum is being heavily moderated to the point that some posts are being deleted and others are left alone. If we're discussing the subject it should be open for discussion or simply closed. Instead of moderators cherry picking (censoring) posts they don't agree with.

In my experience, moderators only remove posts that are in violation of the terms and guidelines of the dis.

 

[Shanti]

Currently:

1. Globally, the average cost of a slave is $90.
2. Trafficking primarily involves exploitation which comes in many forms, including: forcing victims into prostitution, subjecting victims to slavery or involuntary servitude and compelling victims to commit sex acts for the purpose of creating pornography.
3. According to some estimates, approximately 80% of trafficking involves sexual exploitation, and 19% involves labor exploitation.
4. There are approximately 20 to 30 million slaves in the world today.
5. According to the U.S. State Department, 600,000 to 800,000 people are trafficked across international borders every year, of which 80% are female and half are children.

(Via www.dosomething.org/us/facts/11-facts-about-human-trafficking)

Past:

In the 360 years between 1500 and the end of the slave trade in the 1860s, at least 12 million Africans were forcibly taken to the Americas - then known as the "New World" to European settlers. This largest forced migration in human history relocated some 50 ethnic and linguistic groups.

(Via: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/african-ame...cross/history/on-african-american-migrations/)

Perhaps people are just not aware how serious this is and how many women and young children are enslaved for sexual purposes?

Modern sex trafficking does not have the impact on American culture that our history & legacy of African-American slavery has had. That is why it is culturally unacceptable to have references to African-American slavery in a ride. Slavery's legacy has had a big impact on our national psyche and the state of current American society. Trafficking, as widespread as it is worldwide, has not influenced our culture a fraction as much as the continuing impact of our legacy of slavery.

Trafficking is evil and hurtful, just like murder and torture are hurtful and evil, but they don't have the same cultural resonance as the shared historical experience of African-American slavery does. That is why most Americans can see nonserious references to them in a ride & not get the same visceral, negative response that they would get from references to slavery.

I've made three statements on this, and am choosing to move on to other threads now.

 

[Farro]

Modern sex trafficking does not have the impact on American culture that our history & legacy of African-American slavery has had. That is why it is culturally unacceptable to have references to African-American slavery in a ride. Slavery's legacy has had a big impact on our national psyche and the state of current American society. Trafficking, as widespread as it is worldwide, has not influenced our culture a fraction as much as the continuing impact of our legacy of slavery.

Trafficking is evil and hurtful, just like murder and torture are hurtful and evil, but they don't have the same cultural resonance as the shared historical experience of African-American slavery does. That is why most Americans can see nonserious references to them in a ride & not get the same visceral, negative response that they would get from references to slavery.

I've made three statements on this, and am choosing to move on to other threads now.

I see you've taken the easy way out with the canned statement of "I'm not answering anymore", but it's mind boggling why you can't just agree that it should be just as morally/culturally unacceptable to portray all women in this same fashion? It's these types of responses where I'm not even thinking of the ride at this point, but at the reasoning behind a post such as this.

Why can't you agree it's just not acceptable, period? Stand up for yourself. As a woman.

 

[Party.Of.4-NY>>>FL]

Modern sex trafficking does not have the impact on American culture that our history & legacy of African-American slavery has had. That is why it is culturally unacceptable to have references to African-American slavery in a ride. Slavery's legacy has had a big impact on our national psyche and the state of current American society. Trafficking, as widespread as it is worldwide, has not influenced our culture a fraction as much as the continuing impact of our legacy of slavery.

Trafficking is evil and hurtful, just like murder and torture are hurtful and evil, but they don't have the same cultural resonance as a shared historical experience that African-American slavery does. That is why most Americans can see lighthearted, nonserious references to them in a ride & not get the same visceral, negative response that they would get from references to slavery.

Just trying to take this all in and understand your point of view. Are you're saying a reference to human trafficking if it specifically involves women and children that are forced into slavery potentially has the ability to be "lighthearted and non-serious" if presented correctly? While any reference at all to human trafficking that involves people of color being forced into slavery has absolutely no possibility of being "lighthearted and non-serious?"

Just my opinion here, but I feel both are equally reprehensible.

Though I must admit, I never paid much attention to the redhead in POTC to even know or realize that she would be missing the next time I rode therefore it doesn't bother me that's she's being removed. I will say that I'm thankful the next time we ride, there will be no chance of my young daughter asking why all those men were trying to buy that lady with the red hair. That conversation would have the potential to pop the "Disney bubble" while we were in it.

 

[CinderDuffy]

Modern sex trafficking does not have the impact on American culture that our history & legacy of African-American slavery has had. That is why it is culturally unacceptable to have references to African-American slavery in a ride. Slavery's legacy has had a big impact on our national psyche and the state of current American society. Trafficking, as widespread as it is worldwide, has not influenced our culture a fraction as much as the continuing impact of our legacy of slavery.

Trafficking is evil and hurtful, just like murder and torture are hurtful and evil, but they don't have the same cultural resonance as the shared historical experience of African-American slavery does. That is why most Americans can see nonserious references to them in a ride & not get the same visceral, negative response that they would get from references to slavery.

I've made three statements on this, and am choosing to move on to other threads now.

WOW. So it's okay with you if it's white women in chains, but not black women?! The mind boggles.

 

[Slapshot1188]

It would only bother me if it was not part of the original ride and factually inaccurate. Just like I think the Italian Gangster scenes and ride hosts in The Great Movie Ride are lame and stereotypical but would not want them changed.

 

[DoTheDisFam]

I sure hope that everyone who has a problem with the auction scene only view G rated movies. If not, then youre falling under the umbrella of being hypocritical. Double standard peeps... own it.

 

[MamaBelle4]

I sure hope that everyone who has a problem with the auction scene only view G rated movies. If not, then youre falling under the umbrella of being hypocritical. Double standard peeps... own it.

And not answering the question, just deflecting and insulting.

 

[DoTheDisFam]

And not answering the question, just deflecting and insulting.

Your poll options didn't suit me. Therefore, I didn't vote. I did vote in the other thread regarding PotC.

Insulting? How so?

 

[Westcoastwild]

I predict this thread will get closed. So fast. You like to live dangerously, mamabelle4

But I tend to agree. I don't understand how how folks can see entertainment making light of sexual assault, or trafficking, or prostitution as harmless. I also don't understand how people can misunderstand that scene. There are folks who seem to think that the meaning of that auction is hidden somehow. Nope. Women in chains? An auctioneer? A madam and pirates leering at the women? The meaning is pretty plain.

I mean, I wouldn't have ever boycotted Disney based on it or even complained to guest services. It's so minor in terms of misogyny that it has registered when riding, but rolled right off my back.

But given that I think Disney should be empowering little girls, not normalizing misogyny, I applaud their removal of the scene. It's not going to ruin that ride, and it may improve someone's experience.

 

[MamaBelle4]

Your poll options didn't suit me. Therefore, I didn't vote. I did vote in the other thread regarding PotC.

Insulting? How so?

Implying that thinking the removal of a scene depicting the auctioning of women for the purpose of becoming sexual slaves and seeing PG + movies coexist hypocritically. I mean, apart from making literally no logical sense, I tend to find being called a hypocrite insulting.

For an example of hypocrisy : it is okay and funny to see a scene depciting women being sold but it is offensive and disgusting for a scene of people of color being sold.

Both are dealing with people being sold against their will. To find one okay and the other reprehensible is the textbook definition of hypocrisy.

 

[DoTheDisFam]

Implying that thinking the removal of a scene depicting the auctioning of women for the purpose of becoming sexual slaves and seeing PG + movies coexist hypocritically. I mean, apart from making literally no logical sense, I tend to find being called a hypocrite insulting.

For an example of hypocrisy : it is okay and funny to see a scene depciting women being sold but it is offensive and disgusting for a scene of people of color being sold.

Both are dealing with people being sold against their will. To find one okay and the other reprehensible is the textbook definition of hypocrisy.

It's a ride for heavens sake. Don't ride it if it offends you.

 

[MamaBelle4]

It's a ride for heavens sake. Don't ride it if it offends you.

Sigh. Alright.

As I've said before (probably 3 dozen times by now) it did not offend me. I did not call for it to be removed but I am glad it is going.