Florida homeowner tax bill

[greeneyedchick]

I would argue yes, because, under the most common scenario, the new comers probably have kids in school, which is the most costly municipal service, while on the other hand, those 40 year owners burden on the town has probably gone down significantly as they no longer have kids in school, probably don't drive as often, don't have as much garbage, etc etc.

Lots of retirees move to FL, so kids in the schools aren't a concern. In Orlando, they have lost so many kids that they are closing down some of the schools due to low enrollment.

 

[airjay75]

The plan would be to add more sales tax as opposed to bringing back the property tax

Well, if the people of Florida prefer to pay more sales tax instead of property taxes, seems to me it's their call. That does probably spread the tax burden around and also makes nonresidents and tourists foot some of the bill, so I can see the appeal of that if you're a homestead property owner.

On a related note, it's interesting to me how different states have aversions to different taxes. I grew up in Montana and live in Pennsylvania now, just north of Delaware. The people of MT and DE will allow a sales tax in their states over their cold dead bodies - it's such a point of pride for both of those states. I suspect states without an income tax like TX and FL feel similarly about income taxes.

PA has a weird quirk that their state constitution prohibits anything other than a flat income tax, which is relatively low at 3.07%. And, because state legislators can't play games with deductions and credits through the income tax, they tend to do it through the sales tax instead. Clothes are generally exempt from sales tax, but not if it is formal or athletic clothes. Paper towels are subject to sales tax, but toilet paper isn't because it is considered an essential household good.

Some states impose sales tax on groceries (usually at a lower rate than the general sales tax).

Some states have very hefty car registration fees and/or personal property taxes. Virginia notoriously has a very expensive personal property tax you pay based on the value of your car every year.

It's an interesting area of tax law.

 

[greeneyedchick]

I think the motivation to remove the property tax and eventually add it to the sales tax comes from the desire to prevent people from losing their homes. With the current system, retirees could have their home paid off but still lose their house if they fail to pay their property taxes. This seems unfair since they own their home. With a sales tax, the retirees have more control over whether they want to buy something or not. Even if they end up spending almost as much in sales taxes as they did in property taxes, they don't have the risk of losing their home anymore. The sales tax would also distribute some of the tax burden onto tourists.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Lots of inconsistencies and misinformation in this thread.

 

[RivShore]

Lots of retirees move to FL, so kids in the schools aren't a concern. In Orlando, they have lost so many kids that they are closing down some of the schools due to low enrollment.

School population is a very local issue. Where we have lived since moving here around 6 years ago, the schools are bursting at the seems and they can't build new ones fast enough (this is the area around where Orange and Lake counties meet).

 

[RivShore]

As long as basics are exempted (groceries, clothing), I could see sales tax filling the revenue hole. I wonder how much of the sales tax is currently paid by visitors?

 

[RivShore]

On a related note, it's interesting to me how different states have aversions to different taxes. I grew up in Montana and live in Pennsylvania now, just north of Delaware. The people of MT and DE will allow a sales tax in their states over their cold dead bodies - it's such a point of pride for both of those states. I suspect states without an income tax like TX and FL feel similarly about income taxes.

Kind of reminds me about self serve gas in NJ - no freak'en way am I ever pumping my own gas, are you crazy? lolololol

 

[airjay75]

Kind of reminds me about self serve gas in NJ - no freak'en way am I ever pumping my own gas, are you crazy? lolololol

I know. The interesting tax aspect coming from PA where gas tax is actually one of the highest in the country, NJ gas is always cheaper despite gas stations being required to employ people to fill the tanks. I think most people not used to it get tripped up because they worry whether you're supposed to tip - I've been assured by every native New Jerseyian that you do not tip them

 

[atthebeachclub]

As noted by Airjay75, gas in Oregon was often cheaper than in Washington, though in Oregon it was not self-pump. I love not having to pump my own gas; it felt so much fancier. Also not tipped in Oregon.

 

[VGCgroupie]

Kind of reminds me about self serve gas in NJ - no freak'en way am I ever pumping my own gas, are you crazy? lolololol

I’ve never had anyone other than my husband pump gas for me in my life

 

[VGCgroupie]

I’ve never had anyone other than my husband pump gas for me in my life

I didn’t tip him.

 

[greeneyedchick]

School population is a very local issue. Where we have lived since moving here around 6 years ago, the schools are bursting at the seems and they can't build new ones fast enough (this is the area around where Orange and Lake counties meet).

It is strange how much it varies since you're not that far from Orlando. I was referring to this article that I had read recently. https://www.cfpublic.org/education/...ty-public-schools-considers-closing-7-schools

 

[mkatsy]

Lots of retirees move to FL, so kids in the schools aren't a concern. In Orlando, they have lost so many kids that they are closing down some of the schools due to low enrollment.

We also have vouchers now, so enrollment is lost there too. OCPS plans to close three schools.

 

[mkatsy]

How do you expect the gap to be closed?

A combination of increased sales tax and a reallocation of some of the tourism money that already comes in. However, I’m personally doubtful that it will pass because most people don’t understand it. It’s just the non school portion of the tax (approximately 50% of the total bill) and there is a provision that fire and police must be funded at 2025 level.

 

[airjay75]

A combination of increased sales tax and a reallocation of some of the tourism money that already comes in. However, I’m personally doubtful that it will pass because most people don’t understand it. It’s just the non school portion of the tax (approximately 50% of the total bill) and there is a provision that fire and police must be funded at 2025 level.

In theory, could local governments do this on their own under current law if there was support for doing so in their own jurisdictions?

 

[walt34]

A combination of increased sales tax and a reallocation of some of the tourism money that already comes in. However, I’m personally doubtful that it will pass because most people don’t understand it. It’s just the non school portion of the tax (approximately 50% of the total bill) and there is a provision that fire and police must be funded at 2025 level.

Wouldn’t they have to double the sales tax to compensate for the loss in revenue?

 

[Cfabar1]

The challenge with governments and tourism attractions is to make sure they are not placing an undue burden on tourists, because they can and will go someplace else - this is a hard lesson that Las Vegas is learning as we speak for example.

Las Vegas is learning other lessons too:
- companies and governments are afraid to send workers to a location with a seedy reputation
- there are only so many junk fees the consumer is willing to take
- the prices you charge for food and other things on vacation can be higher than normal, but must have a basis in reality. and the quality is a part of that reality....

My view is Florida is becoming very unaffordable very quickly... The state needs to remain attractive to those who provide for the wealthy retirees - and the wealthy retirees moved here for nice weather and a good financial deal... Insurance costs have skyrocketed in Florida, and every year the property taxes are going up and up and up...

Though I don't agree with every aspect of this proposal, I am glad they are trying to do something about it...

 

[mkatsy]

I looked up Orange County and the assessor is estimating that if the bill passes (which is a huge hurdle) it would have an effect equal to 5% of the annual county budget. It’s definitely significant, but not catastrophic. Keep in mind, the state couldn’t get recreational marijuana to pass, I just don’t see this passing.