Flat tax: What's the catch?

luv2laugh

Mouseketeer
Joined
Apr 14, 2007
Messages
233
The more I research the flat tax, the more appealing it seems. Everyone would pay the same percentage of their income. From what I've read, the government would actually collect more money from taxes and people wouldn't be able to 'scam' their way out of paying. People make up deductions to lower themselves into a different income bracket and the upper-middle class resent that they carry such a large burden percentage wise.

What's the catch? Why don't we have a flat tax rate? It seems like such a better solution! :confused3
 
I think the main one would be that currently, if one earns under a certain amount, he/she pays no federal tax at all. So those at the poverty level would be hardest hit with a flat tax.

That said, if we had a flat 10 or 15% tax on everyone who earned over a certain amount -- no exceptions to it -- I think we'd end up with more tax money overall.

However, until Congress learns not to SPEND more than their INCOME is, I'm reluctant to do anything that would give them more money. LOL!

Actually, I support a flat tax on income (from all sources -- interest or work income, whatever) and think it should be no higher than 15%. That's far more reasonable than other countries. Sweden, which has high literacy and health statistics, also has a very high tax rate, like 30%. I don't think that would fly in America and frankly, I think maybe 12% ought to be sufficient for what the Constitution says the federal government ought to be doing. And then, of course, the federal government ought to STOP doing anything the Constitution doesn't specifically say it must do. LOL!

-Dorothy (LadyZolt)
 
Define income.

That's the catch. What do you do with people that are self employed? Tax them at gross or net? People that own businesses that are organized as partnerships where they are paid a salary, but also get a K-1? What if they are investing in 10 partnerships, 6 made income and 4 had losses. What if you decided to rent out your house? Is your income gross or net or non-taxable?

People will try to scam out of it, and you will have a tax code as massive as we have today.
 
Define income.

That's the catch. What do you do with people that are self employed? Tax them at gross or net? People that own businesses that are organized as partnerships where they are paid a salary, but also get a K-1? What if they are investing in 10 partnerships, 6 made income and 4 had losses. What if you decided to rent out your house? Is your income gross or net or non-taxable?

People will try to scam out of it, and you will have a tax code as massive as we have today.

That's why the national sales tax is the superior solution.
 

What's wrong with the Fair Tax?

It's unnecessarily complicated--"inclusive of the tax, blah, blah, blah"

Just add 9% to the price and away we go. No "prebates". No exclusions. No social engineering. No BS. The collection mechanism is already in place.

And it's not regressive--I don't even want to hear any of that nonsense.
 
It's unnecessarily complicated--"inclusive of the tax, blah, blah, blah"

Just add 9% to the price and away we go. No "prebates". No exclusions. No social engineering. No BS. The collection mechanism is already in place.

And it's not regressive--I don't even want to hear any of that nonsense.


So.....you dont think a person who makes 25K a year who has to pay 9% for a new car wont complain because it eats up so much more of their pay than a person who makes 120K a year? No matter what they come up with, someone will complain.
 
So.....you dont think a person who makes 25K a year who has to pay 9% for a new car wont complain because it eats up so much more of their pay than a person who makes 120K a year? No matter what they come up with, someone will complain.

Instead of complaining they should just buy a less expensive car :confused3
 
So.....you dont think a person who makes 25K a year who has to pay 9% for a new car wont complain because it eats up so much more of their pay than a person who makes 120K a year? No matter what they come up with, someone will complain.

Of course people will always complain. And such a complaint might be legitimate if there were only one kind of car. But people who make $25k/year don't buy the same cars as people who make $125k/year.
 
Of course people will always complain. And such a complaint might be legitimate if there were only one kind of car. But people who make $25k/year don't buy the same cars as people who make $125k/year.

Sure they do, they are entitled to have what someone who makes more gets to have, remember.
 
So.....you dont think a person who makes 25K a year who has to pay 9% for a new car wont complain because it eats up so much more of their pay than a person who makes 120K a year? No matter what they come up with, someone will complain.

They pay the same now if the state has a sales tax.
 
A Flat Tax would equal no loop holes....that is why so many don't agree with it.
 
A Flat Tax would equal no loop holes....that is why so many don't agree with it.

It is impossible to design a tax law without loopholes. It would have to be omniscient -- foreseeing every possible way that a smart person or savvy attorney could dream up to avoid the tax. Which can't be done.

This doesn't mean that it is necessarily a bad idea, but let's be realistic and admit upfront that there can never be a loophole-free tax.
 
And it's not regressive--I don't even want to hear any of that nonsense.

You don't understand the meaning of "regressive?" If somebody like Warren Buffett would pay a smaller percentage of his wealth and/or income than a person making $50,000, then a tax is regressive.

I am a CPA and an accounting professor, and every version of a sales tax that I have seen presented by a national figure perfectly fits the definition of regressive. It happens because Warren Buffett can't possibly spend all of his money, so he pays no tax on the massive portion he can't spend. A person making $50,000 is forced to spend most of his income to survive, so a higher percentage gets taxed.

The only way to avoid having a regressive national sales tax is to only tax luxury goods (jewelry, yachts, perhaps Disney vacations). But the tax rate would have to be so high that it would threaten the existence of these industries.
 
It is impossible to design a tax law without loopholes. It would have to be omniscient -- foreseeing every possible way that a smart person or savvy attorney could dream up to avoid the tax. Which can't be done.

This doesn't mean that it is necessarily a bad idea, but let's be realistic and admit upfront that there can never be a loophole-free tax.


X pays no taxes


Until X buys milk which has a tax of Y

Or X buys a car which has a tax of Y.

Where is the loophole?
 
X pays no taxes


Until X buys milk which has a tax of Y

Or X buys a car which has a tax of Y.

Where is the loophole?

If that is as complicated as the financial world gets, then you have solved the problem. How about X buys something on his trip to Bermuda and brings it into the country without reporting it? Please try harder. Or better yet, talk to an attorney who specializes in creative transactions and learn how they think.
 
A Flat Tax would equal no loop holes....that is why so many don't agree with it.

It would have to be about 19% on total gross income to equal current revenues.

So 25% with FICA added. 31% if you are self employed.

So 95% of the country would have their taxes significantly go up.

That is why you never hear about it anywhere but on forums. :lmao:
 
Such questions typically degrade into an argument about whether society, in determining its taxation, should be compassionate towards poor people or not. (I suspect you can guess which side I come down on in that dispute.)

My personal favorite alternative means of taxation is a national sales tax that taxes at a rate directly proportional to how incensed the sensationalism-driven general public gets (today) when they see people on public assistance with such items or receiving such services.

For example, practically none of those yahoos gets upset when they see someone on public assistance eating a reasonable meal. So basic groceries, 0%. These yahoos would get somewhat upset about such a person using public assistance to purchase specialty items, like caviar, so such items would be taxed. Having such a dividing line isn't difficult: The dividing line is already drawn in many states, though perhaps the line could be drawn differently. I personally feel that there are too many items in the grocery store that MA considers "taxable" that I believe should not be taxed. But that's just a nuance.

Perhaps, in a system where so much is riding on sales tax, we may need three levels... 0% for basic items, X% for luxury items, 1/2 X% for borderline items.

Public transportation, of course, would be 0%. Regular gasoline for private cars would be 1/2 X%. Tax mid-grade and premium fuel at the full X%. (Full disclosure: I drive a car that requires premium fuel only.)

Clothing up to a certain dollar amount per item would also be 0%, then 1/2 X% for clothing at the borderline, and X% for expensive clothing. Again, many states already apply a dividing line between taxable and non-taxable -- I personally would prefer having that middle-ground borderline category as well.

Essentially, though, "poor" people should have no problem going through their day paying essentially no tax. Items that would be taxed would be items that, for all intents and purposes, are expenses that someone who made other choices about their purchases (what food they purchase; what entertainment choices they partake of; what living arrangements they make, including living closer to work, working in an urban area where public transportation is plentiful, etc.) would be able to readily avoid.

Of course, the devil is in the details: What is "X" in X%, above. I'm not tellin'!

The biggest down-side of this approach is that it stifles economic activity, since folks have more incentive to save than to spend. Right about now, that would be the worst thing we could do.
 
It would have to be about 19% on total gross income to equal current revenues.

So 25% with FICA added. 31% if you are self employed.

So 95% of the country would have their taxes significantly go up.

That is why you never hear about it anywhere but on forums. :lmao:

Most people don't even know what their effective tax rate is. It's usually much less than their marginal tax rate. Most of the 95 percent don't pay any taxes (income) at all. Some get extra back that they didn't even pay in.

IMHO, everyone should pay something into the system if they collect a paycheck. Even it's a nominal amount like $50 for the entire year.
 


Disney Vacation Planning. Free. Done for You.
Our Authorized Disney Vacation Planners are here to provide personalized, expert advice, answer every question, and uncover the best discounts. Let Dreams Unlimited Travel take care of all the details, so you can sit back, relax, and enjoy a stress-free vacation.
Start Your Disney Vacation
Disney EarMarked Producer

New Posts







DIS Facebook DIS youtube DIS Instagram DIS Pinterest DIS Tiktok DIS Twitter

Add as a preferred source on Google

Back
Top Bottom