Fireworks with Nikon (non-DSLR) ??

[TuneTownMagic]

Hi everybody in the photography forum! I apologize in advance if the answers to my question are elsewhere on another thread that I missed. I wanted to ask whether anyone who is experienced with a Nikon P500 or P510/P520 can give any advice on using this camera to take photographs at night, and also take fireworks pictures? Up till now, I have been using point and shoot type of cameras, with which I can get decent daytime shots and quite mediocre fireworks pictures. I am an amateur photographer for sure, and I am planning on purchasing one of the aforementioned cameras soon as I hear it is a good start for someone inexperienced like myself . I'm hoping I can manage some good night shots and fireworks shots without having to invest in a fancier camera or lenses/attachments? Thanks so much!!!

 

[havoc315]

A quick fireworks tutorial:
Not sure if that camera allowed for a remote control shutter. Probably not, so you will need to use the timer.
1. Set up the camera on a tripod.
2. Turn on the short self-timer -- like a 2 second timer. You use the timer, because pushing the button yourself will shake the camera, and you don't want any camera shake in your pictures.
3. Set the ISO low -- set it to 100.
4. Set the camera to manual mode. Dial in an aperture of about 8. And a shutter speed of about 6 seconds.

As the fireworks start, start taking exposures. Essentially, you are shooting in anticipation of what you expect to happen in the next 8 seconds. You'll hit the shutter release.. wait 2 seconds for the timer, and then record 6 seconds worth of fireworks. You repeat over and over again, until the end of the show.
If you feel you aren't capturing enough bursts, extend the shutter speed to 8.. or 10 seconds. (Actually, that camera may have a maximum of 8 seconds). I wouldn't go much higher. If you check your shots and they are just a mess of over exposed white explosions, then make the shutter a little faster (try 4 or 5 seconds).

Follow these basics, you should walk away with some great shots.

Here is an example, following this method, from Illuminations:


Epcot Illuminations by Havoc315, on Flickr

 

[mamaCta]

I used to have the P5100. I had no problem getting fireworks photos by setting it to full manual and following tutorials. You may have to make some slight adjustments to suit the limitations of the camera, but following the instructions posted above should get you close to where you want to be.

 

[wiigirl]

Good tutorial!

 

[hakepb]

It looks like you can change your disk to Scene, then choose fireworks. (Of course, after you have your camera on a tripod, table, trash can, or something more steady than your hands . )

It looks like your camera sets focus to infinity in fireworks scene so the manual settings may help if you also want to have a foreground object in focus.

FWIW, the P510/520 is a good bridge camera, but other than the Panasonic FZ200 and some Fuji EXr models, bridge cameras are not ideal for low light situations.
For low light you want fast lenses (f/2.0 or less) and larger sensors (the p520 uses the same small sensor size like a Coolpix s3200.) for example the smaller body Nikon P7700 has a larger sensor and a faster lens than the P520.

Now, if a long zoom for wildlife photography is a greater priority than indoor/low light photos, then a bridge camera may still be ideal for you.

 

[havoc315]

It looks like you can change your disk to Scene, then choose fireworks. (Of course, after you have your camera on a tripod, table, trash can, or something more steady than your hands . )

It looks like your camera sets focus to infinity in fireworks scene so the manual settings may help if you also want to have a foreground object in focus.

FWIW, the P510/520 is a good bridge camera, but other than the Panasonic FZ200 and some Fuji EXr models, bridge cameras are not ideal for low light situations.
For low light you want fast lenses (f/2.0 or less) and larger sensors (the p520 uses the same small sensor size like a Coolpix s3200.) for example the smaller body Nikon P7700 has a larger sensor and a faster lens than the P520.

Now, if a long zoom for wildlife photography is a greater priority than indoor/low light photos, then a bridge camera may still be ideal for you.

Hakepb is correct about low-light, but fireworks is not the same as low light. So in terms of your regular night-time and low-light photos.. he is totally correct, it would be better to get a camera with a bigger sensor and faster lens. A fast lens is not important for fireworks. And truthfully, neither is a large sensor.

And yes, you can absolutely use the fireworks scene mode. For July 4th, I gave 1 of my cameras to my 8-year-old who simply used the scene mode and got a few decent pictures. (Though he didn't use the timer, so had some camera shake). But you will get better results with manual settings. The scene modes generally try to play it "safe" -- like with a 2 second exposure, which may give you 1 decent burst of fireworks.

I was going to talk about focus in the tutorial -- I manually set my focus to infinity or just short of infinity. But if you are using a small aperture (such as 8), on a small sensor camera... shooting from a distance, focus really isn't an issue. The camera will autofocus into the distance and everything will be sharp. if the camera does have trouble focusing because of the dark, then set the focus to manual and set to infinity or just short of infinity.
Focusing on a foreground subject will only change the focus, if it is a NEAR foreground subject. Like shooting a pot of flowers.... with the fireworks way off blurry in the distance. But if you are shooting the castle from 500 feet away, with fireworks behind the castle... it's not going to affect your focus.

 

[Mickey1Fan]

A trick I learned at my camera club if you don't have a tripod but have somewhere to rest the camera, put it on a bean bag. It steadies the camera better than your hand can especially if you are using a fence or have to tilt the camera up or down.

 

[TuneTownMagic]

Thank you SOOO much everyone for the advice! The tutorial provided seems really helpful, I'm really grateful to have those basic instructions, and it doesn't seem too terribly complicated to someone of my level of experience! Thank you again! Hopefully , everything will go well with my photography venture. I love everybody's tips and tricks, I will have to try all of those things at some point.

And about what my priorities are for picture-taking, I probably am not too focused on the low light and fireworks pictures, but it's something I would really like to learn to do better and have a good camera for because I never seem to have those kinds of shots in my Disney albums from the past. And I've just seen some stunning photography on this forum that really opened my eyes to what all can be captured at the World.

havoc315, I didn't quite follow what you were explaining about the focus. Should it be set to infinity for most kinds of shots, or just fireworks and low light?

 

[havoc315]

.

havoc315, I didn't quite follow what you were explaining about the focus. Should it be set to infinity for most kinds of shots, or just fireworks and low light?

Typically, you'll just stick to autofocus.
Infinity is for shooting into the distance. Using AF, the camera will automatically set infinity where appropriate.

But sometimes autofocus is difficult for fireworks... As the shutter is going off BEFORE there is anything to focus on. Thus, you can manually set the focus on infinity.
With a small sensor camera, focus really isn't a huge issue as you have a very large depth of field. I've used AF for fireworks without difficulty. But if you find the focus isn't locking, then just manually set to infinity (or just short of infinity)

People often confuse fireworks as being similar to low light. Fireworks are actually unique -- bright light on a dark background.

Low light requires a fast lens, and preferably a larger sensor. Truthfully, no small sensor cameras truly do low light well. Some have features that help compensate, such as stacking multiple images.

 

[hakepb]

A trick I learned at my camera club if you don't have a tripod but have somewhere to rest the camera, put it on a bean bag. It steadies the camera better than your hand can especially if you are using a fence or have to tilt the camera up or down.

That may of helped here. I was just holding the camera on the railing and the fireworks are a little squirrelly

Typically, you'll just stick to autofocus.
Infinity is for shooting into the distance. Using AF, the camera will automatically set infinity where appropriate.

But sometimes autofocus is difficult for fireworks... As the shutter is going off BEFORE there is anything to focus on. Thus, you can manually set the focus on infinity.
With a small sensor camera, focus really isn't a huge issue as you have a very large depth of field. I've used AF for fireworks without difficulty. But if you find the focus isn't locking, then just manually set to infinity (or just short of infinity)

People often confuse fireworks as being similar to low light. Fireworks are actually unique -- bright light on a dark background.

Low light requires a fast lens, and preferably a larger sensor. Truthfully, no small sensor cameras truly do low light well. Some have features that help compensate, such as stacking multiple images.

The above shot shows focus on a foreground item (the Liberty Bell) and the fireworks weren't too badly out of focus.

I think a bigger sensor and RAW helps with longer exposures. I tried some manual 4 second shots and they were overexposed, so I stuck with 2 second exposures on my point and shoot.

I do agree that fireworks are fine for any camera with a tripod.

 

[havoc315]

That may of helped here. I was just holding the camera on the railing and the fireworks are a little squirrelly

The above shot shows focus on a foreground item (the Liberty Bell) and the fireworks weren't too badly out of focus.

I think a bigger sensor and RAW helps with longer exposures. I tried some manual 4 second shots and they were overexposed, so I stuck with 2 second exposures on my point and shoot.

I do agree that fireworks are fine for any camera with a tripod.

That's a fantastic shot. Especially without a tripod. Very well done.

RAW is generally helpful for any difficult exposure, but simply because it allows for the most post processing correction. If shot correctly, fireworks don't need a ton of post processing in *most* cases. My shot above, was shot straight to jpeg, though I still changed the contrast and saturation a bit in post.

Fundamentally, I can't think of a reason why a larger sensor would be helpful for a long exposure, except for the better ability to handle noise. But if you keep your ISO low enough, shouldn't be an issue.

I'm surprised your 4-second shots were over-exposed. Was your ISO set low, or did the camera automatically boost your ISO thinking it was "dark?"

The only time I've had serious over-exposure of fireworks, whether on dSLR or point & shoot, is during massive bursts, as in a finale. Where there are lots of fireworks going off simultaneously, I see the need to keep it to 2-4 seconds.

As to focus, on a dSLR or large sensor camera, I would definitely consider setting the focus manually.

But a small sensor camera essentially reaches infinity very fast. If your shot, the Bell and the fireworks both look completely sharp to me. I don't know if the Bell would be in any less sharp, had you focused on the fireworks directly.

You have the Sony HX20? I plugged the number into a Depth of Field calculator out of curiosity. At wide angle (about 5mm?), and with an aperture of 8, the hyperfocal distance is only 2 feet. In other words, when set to infinity, everything from 2 feet to infinity will be sharp. So as long as your subject is more than 2 feet away, the focus really shouldn't be an issue.

(For times when you don't want background blur, a small sensor camera actually does have its advantages).

 

[TuneTownMagic]

Wow I am just sitting back and taking in all this camera conversation, it's great to see what experienced people know about photography at Disney and elsewhere!!

havoc315 , Thank you very much for clearing that up for me (about the focus), that makes a lot of sense! It's also good to know the important difference with low light as opposed to fireworks shots. I'll keep that in mind. So, would you say my best chance at getting a good low light shot is increasing the shutter speed? (I say this because you mentioned a fast lens, not sure if those two are the same thing [newbie here ] ). I'll have to see if my new camera will do anything with stacked images.

hakepb , your fireworks picture is wonderful! I'm really impressed with the foreground object in combination with the burst of fireworks. It seems sharp to me! One quick question, is the number of seconds for exposure the same thing as the shutter speed, or is it referring to the self-timer?

Thanks again everyone!

 

[hakepb]

Wow I am just sitting back and taking in all this camera conversation, it's great to see what experienced people know about photography at Disney and elsewhere!!

havoc315 , Thank you very much for clearing that up for me (about the focus), that makes a lot of sense! It's also good to know the important difference with low light as opposed to fireworks shots. I'll keep that in mind. So, would you say my best chance at getting a good low light shot is increasing the shutter speed? (I say this because you mentioned a fast lens, not sure if those two are the same thing [newbie here ] ). I'll have to see if my new camera will do anything with stacked images.

hakepb , your fireworks picture is wonderful! I'm really impressed with the foreground object in combination with the burst of fireworks. It seems sharp to me! One quick question, is the number of seconds for exposure the same thing as the shutter speed, or is it referring to the self-timer?

Thanks again everyone!

Thanks! It was a very happy accident that I wound up there.

Yes, that is shutter speed. On my camera, two seconds is shown as 2" (following quote)
In fireworks, you want a long/slow shutter speed to capture the full "story" of a fireworks motion vs freezing a moment of time.
In other low light scenarios such as a low light landscape shot, you want a slow/long shutter because you are waiting for enough light to saturate your film or computer chip.
The aperature / lens in this context is like a hose you use to fill a bucket. (I'm sure there is better analogies) A small aperature opening (measured as a high f/) is like a little garden hose, it lets in some light with a small hole. A large aperature / fast lens has a large opening and is is like using a fire hose. A lens with a large aperature is "fast" it will fill that bucket faster or let you use faster shutter speeds

 

[hakepb]

That's a fantastic shot. Especially without a tripod. Very well done.

RAW is generally helpful for any difficult exposure, but simply because it allows for the most post processing correction. If shot correctly, fireworks don't need a ton of post processing in *most* cases. My shot above, was shot straight to jpeg, though I still changed the contrast and saturation a bit in post.

Fundamentally, I can't think of a reason why a larger sensor would be helpful for a long exposure, except for the better ability to handle noise. But if you keep your ISO low enough, shouldn't be an issue.

I'm surprised your 4-second shots were over-exposed. Was your ISO set low, or did the camera automatically boost your ISO thinking it was "dark?"

The only time I've had serious over-exposure of fireworks, whether on dSLR or point & shoot, is during massive bursts, as in a finale. Where there are lots of fireworks going off simultaneously, I see the need to keep it to 2-4 seconds.

As to focus, on a dSLR or large sensor camera, I would definitely consider setting the focus manually.

But a small sensor camera essentially reaches infinity very fast. If your shot, the Bell and the fireworks both look completely sharp to me. I don't know if the Bell would be in any less sharp, had you focused on the fireworks directly.

You have the Sony HX20? I plugged the number into a Depth of Field calculator out of curiosity. At wide angle (about 5mm?), and with an aperture of 8, the hyperfocal distance is only 2 feet. In other words, when set to infinity, everything from 2 feet to infinity will be sharp. So as long as your subject is more than 2 feet away, the focus really shouldn't be an issue.

(For times when you don't want background blur, a small sensor camera actually does have its advantages).

Thanks!
Sorry for the delayed response.

For the sensor size, they say small sensors are more prone to clipping/blowing highlights. I keep my histogram display on and usually set EV to -0.3 or -0.7 Perhaps I was a bit too close when I tried 3" and 4" (at sleepy hollow). But both the side and upper fireworks were generally over exposed. Occasionally I was OK with a less intense firework...I wish I had an opportunity to shoot at a distance at full zoom to use a smaller aperature (because aperature only changes with zoom on my HX30 (HX20+ wifi) but at least Sony uses an ND filter to reduce light, and fireworks mode uses the ND filter)
For the longer exposures, I used Manual mode and had ISO set to 100...but it doesn't let me choose EV.

 

[havoc315]

Thanks!
Sorry for the delayed response.

For the sensor size, they say small sensors are more prone to clipping/blowing highlights. I keep my histogram display on and usually set EV to -0.3 or -0.7 Perhaps I was a bit too close when I tried 3" and 4" (at sleepy hollow). But both the side and upper fireworks were generally over exposed. Occasionally I was OK with a less intense firework...I wish I had an opportunity to shoot at a distance at full zoom to use a smaller aperature (because aperature only changes with zoom on my HX30 (HX20+ wifi) but at least Sony uses an ND filter to reduce light, and fireworks mode uses the ND filter)
For the longer exposures, I used Manual mode and had ISO set to 100...but it doesn't let me choose EV.

Didn't realize you lacked aperture control on that camera. So yes, I'm guessing that was the biggest issue in an inability to use a longer shutter speed, do you know what your aperture was? Obviously, if you used an aperture 2 stops smaller, you could have used an 8 second exposure instead of 2. Big difference.

 

[hakepb]

Yes, at wide angle I only have f/3.2 and with the internal ND filter I get an equivilent f8.0
Then there are several aperature stops while zooming to full telephoto at f/5.8 and with the ND filter it is an f/14 equivilent.

The lack of control is both frustrating (less control) and fun (because ND filters are fun to play with for fire and sunsets..)

The new HX50 finally has real aperture control (but no ND filter) but I'm not looking for a new camera.

 

[TuneTownMagic]

Thanks! It was a very happy accident that I wound up there.

Yes, that is shutter speed. On my camera, two seconds is shown as 2" (following quote)
In fireworks, you want a long/slow shutter speed to capture the full "story" of a fireworks motion vs freezing a moment of time.
In other low light scenarios such as a low light landscape shot, you want a slow/long shutter because you are waiting for enough light to saturate your film or computer chip.
The aperature / lens in this context is like a hose you use to fill a bucket. (I'm sure there is better analogies) A small aperature opening (measured as a high f/) is like a little garden hose, it lets in some light with a small hole. A large aperature / fast lens has a large opening and is is like using a fire hose. A lens with a large aperature is "fast" it will fill that bucket faster or let you use faster shutter speeds

Thank you for clarifying, that makes sense, and that analogy worked! . I can't wait to get some good low light shots.

This is awesome! That fire looks so vivid.

 

[havoc315]

Yes, at wide angle I only have f/3.2 and with the internal ND filter I get an equivilent f8.0
Then there are several aperature stops while zooming to full telephoto at f/5.8 and with the ND filter it is an f/14 equivilent.

The lack of control is both frustrating (less control) and fun (because ND filters are fun to play with for fire and sunsets..)

The new HX50 finally has real aperture control (but no ND filter) but I'm not looking for a new camera.

The fire looks amazing, those wouldn't be easy highlights to preserve without an ND filter. It annoys me that the RX100 isn't already built for an NF filter, but they did fix that with the mark2, and there are jury-rig options for the RX100.

 

[hakepb]

Thanks!
It is also an interesting discussion point, because technically I blew that photo opportunity because my shutter speed was too slow (1/320) to freeze drops of water in the air.
I purposely choose ISO 100 for better dynamic range (for vivid fire) and less noise.
It would be interesting to try the shot again at ISO 400 which would let me use a faster shutter speed around 1/1200. (This is where modern bigger sensors help. A new DSLr or an RX100 are still very clean and dynamic at ISO 400, so those owners wouldn't think twice about using it.

 

[havoc315]

Thanks!
It is also an interesting discussion point, because technically I blew that photo opportunity because my shutter speed was too slow (1/320) to freeze drops of water in the air.
I purposely choose ISO 100 for better dynamic range (for vivid fire) and less noise.
It would be interesting to try the shot again at ISO 400 which would let me use a faster shutter speed around 1/1200. (This is where modern bigger sensors help. A new DSLr or an RX100 are still very clean and dynamic at ISO 400, so those owners wouldn't think twice about using it.

Those are the intricate details that are lost on many point and shooters. No offense to your camera, it's a good model as far as superzooms go and has some great advantages. But sometimes I see people claiming that the HX series, or some similar camera is "great in low light" -- and then they post example shots where details are completely blown out... half the photo is lost in blown shadows and highlights, and the details have been completely smeared by noise reduction. But they see it as a "good low light" picture, simply because it did capture the subject.

You have the knowledge and eye to look for the finer details -- like freezing each water droplet.
But I like the effect of the shutter speed you used -- The right speed to capture the movement of the water -- Not individual droplets in the air, but also not just a blurred white rush. You struck a nice balance.