FIFA World Cup 2022 thread

[sam_gordon]

The Eurosnob USA soccer fans who think we won’t win anything with GGG or other MLS coaches in charge. I know the minimum is 4 points but 6 leaves all doubt out.

Well, yea. If we get 6 points out of the next two games, we win the group.

Who cares what other fans think? We'll show on the field how good (or not good) we are.

 

[RedAngie]

Buzz, are you suggesting that England would intentionally lose to Wales so both can advance and knock out the US?

 

[londontime]

The rich owners who the own the PL teams might pressure the Wales and England FA (this stuff has happened in the WC before unfortunately).

Mate, what are you talking about?


1. Why England and Wales getting through to the next round make a jot of difference to the Premier League? It's not a League that is English, in fact almost 70% of the Prem players are not from the UK. And without being disrespectful to the Welsh league, there's not going to be a ton of players flying to Cardiff to start playing in Wales if they happen to make it out of the Group stage of the WC. And even if they did, they'd find out that the top teams in Wales play in the English League.
2. If you think Wales would help England succeed in an international tournament, then you have no clue in the history between England and Wales in sporting competition, or indeed, in History. If Wales stopped us getting out of the group they would declare a national holiday (I'm being slightly facetious here)
3. The various PL owners are not English, and our national team's success or failure has zero bearing on the status of the Premier League. That boils down to the quality of players we attract mainly because of the inflated wages, as possibly the most popular football league in the world and TV money, and the fact that in any given year, 6 of 20 teams in the Premier League have a realistic chance of participation in the Champions League, which further inflates our financial clout, and also spreads the talent out through the league. Further to the point, the Welsh FA have nothing to do with the Premier League, operate in a different country and therefore I'm struggling to understand what leverage the Premier Leagues owners have over them (and history has shown they can hardly agree with each other on easy stuff, let alone rigging a game in the world cup in a week) and the English FA's relations with the Premier League (which is not an FA competition) are not exactly simpatico.

On the US's chances, the first rule of tournament football is not to lose your first game. So yes, you are still in it. Although Iran looked poor on Monday, we also made them look poor. As you did in the first half against Wales, until they changed it in the second half and put on a player who can receive under marking, rather than sticking to the game plan that Dan James could outrun Zimmerman, and just hoofed it up there. The biggest risk for the US is that your coach didn't adapt to the change in the game and that should be a worry.

 

[declansdad]

The rich owners who the own the PL teams might pressure the Wales and England FA (this stuff has happened in the WC before unfortunately).

Again, you may want to speak to real people, not repeat something you heard.

 

[declansdad]

Buzz, are you suggesting that England would intentionally lose to Wales so both can advance and knock out the US?

Would never happen.

 

[declansdad]

England will thrash us this time around if they want to guarantee knockout qualification. We need to win and yesterday was not a confidence booster. The USA can win but they need to play to the best of their ability that they are capable of.

Wasn't that long ago that you were telling us all that the USA would beat England because they just aren't that strong and US would top the group.

 

[SirDuff]

Wasn't that long ago that you were telling us all that the USA would beat England because they just aren't that strong and US would top the group.

But that was before Wales and England came up with their nefarious plans to cheat at the World Cup

 

[RedAngie]

Would never happen.

I would hope not, but I’m not understanding what Buzz means about “back room deals” and nefarious plans.

 

[londontime]

I would hope not, but I’m not understanding what Buzz means about “back room deals” and nefarious plans.

I can only assume he is referring to something like the Disgrace of Gijon in 82, when Germany and Austria knew if they drew against each other they would both progress into the next round, so they basically stood still for most of the game. A game so infamous and rare it has its own name. At a time when the previous game had already been played, so they absolutely knew the outcome. And yet 2 countries who although being in the same political union have a deep rooted rivalry on almost every aspect would agree to negate the game to ensure progress at the expense of the US. Due to the likeliehood England would come top of the group on Goal difference because of the Iran game and have theoretically an easier path in the next round, as the positions out of the group are seeded.
A real issue for the US is if we win, and Iran beat Wales. We would be guaranteed to top the group unless Iran score 6 against someone, it is pretty likely we would put the non starting 11 out against Wales to rotate the squad. Wales v England is going to be Wales's cup final, and it could be that they are going up against our B team, so then you are relying on England to beat Wales or to keep them under the score that you would have to beat Iran by.

So I all in all I would say that Friday is a must win for the States. But England will also be treating this as a must win game because the "Home Internationals" (a game involving 2 teams between England, Scotland, Wales or Ireland) are notoriously hard fought and fierce. Have a look at the reaction by Scotland on drawing 0-0 with us last year.

 

[Buzz Rules]

Wasn't that long ago that you were telling us all that the USA would beat England because they just aren't that strong and US would top the group.

Truthfully, I was betting that Harry Maguire would be a defensive hazard that the USA could expose and create scoring opportunities from. I know I’m being very pessimistic about the upcoming game (when I’m usually the optimistic one), but the referee calls and that Zimmerman penalty really rubbed me the wrong way.

 

[Buzz Rules]

I can only assume he is referring to something like the Disgrace of Gijon in 82, when Germany and Austria knew if they drew against each other they would both progress into the next round, so they basically stood still for most of the game. A game so infamous and rare it has its own name. At a time when the previous game had already been played, so they absolutely knew the outcome. And yet 2 countries who although being in the same political union have a deep rooted rivalry on almost every aspect would agree to negate the game to ensure progress at the expense of the US. Due to the likeliehood England would come top of the group on Goal difference because of the Iran game and have theoretically an easier path in the next round, as the positions out of the group are seeded.
A real issue for the US is if we win, and Iran beat Wales. We would be guaranteed to top the group unless Iran score 6 against someone, it is pretty likely we would put the non starting 11 out against Wales to rotate the squad. Wales v England is going to be Wales's cup final, and it could be that they are going up against our B team, so then you are relying on England to beat Wales or to keep them under the score that you would have to beat Iran by.

So I all in all I would say that Friday is a must win for the States. But England will also be treating this as a must win game because the "Home Internationals" (a game involving 2 teams between England, Scotland, Wales or Ireland) are notoriously hard fought and fierce. Have a look at the reaction by Scotland on drawing 0-0 with us last year.

I was referring to that.

 

[Buzz Rules]

I would hope not, but I’m not understanding what Buzz means about “back room deals” and nefarious plans.

Qatar and Russia got the WC because of corruption, so anything is possible. For the record, I do think Wales and England are honorable teams and I’m partly being sour because of the result yesterday.

 

[Buzz Rules]

Would never happen.

People said the same about Wales qualifying, Qatar getting to host, and that Saudi Arabia couldn’t beat Messi.

 

[Buzz Rules]

Again, you may want to speak to real people, not repeat something you heard.

It’s just my opinion, not a fact.

 

[declansdad]

People said the same about Wales qualifying, Qatar getting to host, and that Saudi Arabia couldn’t beat Messi.

You keep looking for excuses where none exist.

 

[Buzz Rules]

Mate, what are you talking about?


1. Why England and Wales getting through to the next round make a jot of difference to the Premier League? It's not a League that is English, in fact almost 70% of the Prem players are not from the UK. And without being disrespectful to the Welsh league, there's not going to be a ton of players flying to Cardiff to start playing in Wales if they happen to make it out of the Group stage of the WC. And even if they did, they'd find out that the top teams in Wales play in the English League.
2. If you think Wales would help England succeed in an international tournament, then you have no clue in the history between England and Wales in sporting competition, or indeed, in History. If Wales stopped us getting out of the group they would declare a national holiday (I'm being slightly facetious here)
3. The various PL owners are not English, and our national team's success or failure has zero bearing on the status of the Premier League. That boils down to the quality of players we attract mainly because of the inflated wages, as possibly the most popular football league in the world and TV money, and the fact that in any given year, 6 of 20 teams in the Premier League have a realistic chance of participation in the Champions League, which further inflates our financial clout, and also spreads the talent out through the league. Further to the point, the Welsh FA have nothing to do with the Premier League, operate in a different country and therefore I'm struggling to understand what leverage the Premier Leagues owners have over them (and history has shown they can hardly agree with each other on easy stuff, let alone rigging a game in the world cup in a week) and the English FA's relations with the Premier League (which is not an FA competition) are not exactly simpatico.

On the US's chances, the first rule of tournament football is not to lose your first game. So yes, you are still in it. Although Iran looked poor on Monday, we also made them look poor. As you did in the first half against Wales, until they changed it in the second half and put on a player who can receive under marking, rather than sticking to the game plan that Dan James could outrun Zimmerman, and just hoofed it up there. The biggest risk for the US is that your coach didn't adapt to the change in the game and that should be a worry.

I know the history between the two nations, but we have seen money do strange thing to people in this tournament’s history.

 

[Buzz Rules]

You keep looking for excuses where none exist.

No, I’m just not shocked by anything anymore. I look forward to France loosing to Australia at 2pm ET.

 

[londontime]

I was referring to that.

People said the same about Wales qualifying, Qatar getting to host, and that Saudi Arabia couldn’t beat Messi.

That's not the same thing. Wales getting to qualify was them overperforming, as was Saudi Arabia beating Argentina (there are 11 players on a team). Qatar was corruption pure and simple and is more like the South Korea referee match fixing.

But I've got to come back to the point that you are saying there is a scenario where 2 nations who have an intense rivalry to collude to bring about a mutually beneficial result. At the urging of a League where it doesn't matter that the outcome of the game is.
If you make statements like that, you have to back them up, otherwise you are just going to be written off as either a troll or you have a limited knowledge on what you speak about, from my view as an English fan whose been going to games home and away for over 40 years, you've just shown you have no understanding of British football.

 

[Buzz Rules]

That's not the same thing. Wales getting to qualify was them overperforming, as was Saudi Arabia beating Argentina (there are 11 players on a team). Qatar was corruption pure and simple and is more like the South Korea referee match fixing.

But I've got to come back to the point that you are saying there is a scenario where 2 nations who have an intense rivalry to collude to bring about a mutually beneficial result. At the urging of a League where it doesn't matter that the outcome of the game is.
If you make statements like that, you have to back them up, otherwise you are just going to be written off as either a troll or you have a limited knowledge on what you speak about, from my view as an English fan whose been going to games home and away for over 40 years, you've just shown you have no understanding of British football.

I know it sounds ridiculous and totally unlikely. I’m just sulking a little today. I don’t really think it would happen. I’m just venting because I waited 8 years for this game and most European media just write us off constantly for being simply American. Sorry for taking it a little to far down the rabbit hole.

 

[sam_gordon]

So I all in all I would say that Friday is a must win for the States.

I still am not seeing it. Yes, the US *MUST* win against either England or Iran, and not lose either game. That doesn't guarantee them going through, but gives them a pretty good shot. A win Friday IS a big help, but I just don't see it as a "must" win.