FastPass reaches 100 Million

[WEDWAY100]

Raidermatt,

I see your points. But I am opposed to FP because it has negatively changed the way I visit the parks.

I used to go for a couple of hours on a Saturday afternoon, and, on a slow day, I could ride Space or BTM, and maybe one or two lesser attractions, and go home satisfied. Now if I go, regardless if it’s a busy day, the standy for Space will be at least an hour, and I am forced to get a FP, which says come back tonight at 8:00. I will be at home by then, or watching a movie, or perhaps watching Fantasmic or Illuminations. I rarely stay in one park more than a few hours. I can no longer go to the parks and take a leisurely attitude towards riding anything. It has most definitely impacted my attitude about visiting the parks and how often I go.

Having said all of that, I realize that I’m not the average guest. For every one of me there are probably one hundred out of towners. Call me selfish, but I would rather they dump FP and put the effort into maintenance.

 

[raidermatt]

Wedway, I can see how FP doesn't really do a lot for you. As you said, you are probaby the atypical guest, but then again, we all are in one way or another. Sometimes that gets lost in the quest to find the solution that works for the most people.

Scoop, I think the answer is that it does both (increase lines and increase profits). Like I said in my last post, FP has the effect of increasing the "ride attendance" in the parks. Meaning their are more rides actually taken by the same number of people. Since ride capacity does not change, lines must get longer.

True, this would be bad for the profit driven Disney.

But at the same time, FP users also have the opportunity to not spend the time they save in extra lines, and instead spend it in restaurants/stores. Certainly some of this occurs, so Profit Driven Disney gets what it wants. Probably not as much as they had hoped, but still they get something.

So if FP users spent 50% of the time they saved going on other attractions, it would mean that for every 1000 minutes they save, 500 gets added into the lines. The other 500 is spent shopping, eating, or taking in the sights.

That's how you and I get extra time to check out a pyramid, yet overall lines are still longer.

If it still doesn't make sense that lines get longer, it might help to eliminate some of the variables. Let's assume the park is running at full capacity on a busy Spring Break day. All rides are constantly running, and constantly have some kind of line. If you let somebody with FP on sooner, simple math says somebody else has to wait longer.

In the real world, there are variables that mitigate the increase in lines, making it less than a one-to-one trade off, but the concept still applies.

 

[pheneix]

>>>Disney really is so intrinsically profit driven to try and trick every penny out of the guest, would they want guests standing in lines rather than generating revenue throughout the park<<<

So it's a double edged sword, isn't it? Let me relay a little experience that I had last June at WDW:

So at Test Track Fastpass keeps me and my girlfriend in line longer, but 16 John Does from Indiana get their place held in line (at the expense of mine) so that they can ride Journey Into Imagination 3, buy a few cokes, and stare at a Mexican temple for an hour. Meanwhile, we stand in line, get pissed off at the people that get their "big advantage" that everyone would have recieved if the line was moving at a normal pace, and get all kinds of grouchy at the poor CM in loading that tries to split us up for a Fastpass family (and no, we weren't in Singles either).

Afterwards, we get off Test Track, walk out the gates of Epcot* (conviently forgetting to buy that $80 Mickey watch that I wanted), and drive over to Sea World to spend the rest of our day there. Hey, Sea World doesn't even have a virtual queue system! Hey, look at that $80 I have in my pocket. My girlfriend wants a $70 ceramic horse. Gee, where's the money going to come from?

I only comfort I get from the system is that sooner or later John Doe will be on the *** end of the Fastpass system, and I really would like to see what stunt he pulls with the greeter when he is held back so that some snot-nosed *** from North Carolina gets to have his "big advantage" (yes, I do use Fastpass, mainly because I have no choice anymore).

Or maybe he won't get mad. Maybe he is one of those "dumb tourists" that Disney would prefer to have coming to their resorts that tends to walk into "Exit Only" doors and will blindly throw dollars at anything with a Disney sticker on it.

Maybe I'm just too smart to visit a Disney theme park anymore. But hey, no matter who gets mad at the Fastpass system, there's always going to be another tourist who used their place in line to go buy a fastfood meal at the Electric Umbrella, so Disney wins either way.

* BTW, that Fastpass fiasco wasn't the only reason I stormed out of Epcot that day, but it was the final catalyst to what was a pretty sad day at the park. Then again, every day for Epcot is pretty sad when you think about it.

 

[pheneix]

Damn, Raidermatt beat me to the punch as I was recalling my Epcot experience, but he did bring up another point.

>>>Let's assume the park is running at full capacity on a busy Spring Break day. All rides are constantly running, and constantly have some kind of line. If you let somebody with FP on sooner, simple math says somebody else has to wait longer.<<<

Not only does someone have to wait longer, but the "virtual" place held in line directly corrolates to a "real" place somewhere else in the park. My point? One multiplys into two, and someone has to be turned away at the gate, therefore lowering the park's maximum capacity. The hit that Disneyland took in park capacity when Fastpass was implemented was supposedly tremendous.

 

[Bob O]

If you stay on site and visit the park at the right times of the year FP doesnt matter anyway. While i have used FP from time to time the more intellgent way to vist is to go when the park isnt busy and stay on site to use EE where you can re-ride your open favorites with little to no waits. The last 3 times i have went to wdw i havent even needed FP and never waited more than 10-15 minutes. And you shoul use the single rider line where available which is faster than FP anyway.
Now for a real perk stay on site at USF!!!! Nothing beats riding your favorite ride/attraction 5-6 times without exiting the line!!!

 

[KNWVIKING]

All FP is doing is re-allocating times. Someone mentioned a "virtual que". If I pick up a FP at 4:00 with a return at 8:00, then I'm in line for 4 hours. If you got in a 1 hour stand-by line at 4:00, then you waited 3 hours less for the same ride. Prior to FP I never got on SM,Splash or TT without waiting an hour. The only exception was if I got lucky during a parade. I recall massive,disorganized lines outside Splash, well beyond the "45 minutes from here" signs. Haven't seen them since FP.

I guess I have a hard time understanding a downside to FP. It's free. It's availible to everyone with equal access. It's a great way to plan your time.

Someone mentioned being in three lines at once, two virtual with FP & one real line. Mathematically this is possible because there is a 5 minute overlap between expiring first FP & beginning 2nd FP, but where can you sneak in a 5 minute ride before the first ticket expires.

Bottom line is x number of people can only pass thru y number of rides in z amount of time. IMO, FP just allows me to pick and chose how best to stand in line. Generally we are in WDW in off-seasons. This year we will be there the week of July 4th. Maybe something will happen then to change my opinion of FP, ( or maybe the crowds will freak me out and I'll spend the week in SAB). But I use FP. It works well for me. I like it.

 

[WEDWAY100]

Originally posted by KNWVIKING
Someone mentioned being in three lines at once, two virtual with FP & one real line. Mathematically this is possible because there is a 5 minute overlap between expiring first FP & beginning 2nd FP, but where can you sneak in a 5 minute ride before the first ticket expires.

That was me. It’s definitely possible as I have done it. You are correct that there are strict rules that apply to getting a second FP. But the last time I used it this way, I could get a second FP immediately after the start time for my current FP. This gives me an hour to stand in line for a third attraction (without FP) and be in both of the other ques virtually.

I only use FP now because I have to. And since I know about it, I learn every rule, and use it to my advantage. Disney is “incenting” me to this behavior. In some ways, this puts others who are not as experienced at a disadvantage. Why should this be the case? They paid for their admission too – probably more since they most likely don’t have an AP.

 

[KNWVIKING]

... printed with the time I could get my next FP ticket. If I had a ticket good from 1:00 till 2:00, I could get my next FP at 1:55. I don't see how I could squeeze in a stand-by line ride between 1:55 and 2:00. How do you do it ?

 

[WEDWAY100]

Originally posted by KNWVIKING
... printed with the time I could get my next FP ticket. If I had a ticket good from 1:00 till 2:00, I could get my next FP at 1:55. I don't see how I could squeeze in a stand-by line ride between 1:55 and 2:00. How do you do it ?

Maybe the rules have changed since the last time I did it. They used to not print the next FP time on your ticket. At that time, I could get a second one as soon as the start time on the first one has passed. Ex: First FP is from 1:00 til 2:00. I could get a second FP at 1:01. Go stand in line for Pirates (no FP). Go to first FP ride before 2:00. It worked very well for me, although there was a lot of extra walking involved. I did this several times, but not in a while. I’m only this aggressive about riding rides when guests are in from out of town and want to do a lot more than I usually do.

If they have changed this with a new release of the software, that’s probably a good thing.

 

[hopemax]

Well, you don't have to squeeze in the ride by 2. If you miss your Fastpass window, the CM's still let you use the fastpass.

And over at DL during some periods the Pirates and HM Fastpasses don't "count." You can get a FP for one of those two rides and then immediately get one for Splash.

 

[morphi]

printed with the time I could get my next FP ticket.

I'm not sure if they changed things or not. Since the FP tickets have no way to identify whose they are (no ID), when they collect your FP ticket from you when you board your ride, they do not enter it into a computer to keep track of when you used it in order for the computer to know you can now get your second FP. So, it used to be that you could get a second FP as soon as the return time window on your first FP opened. Since the return time window is an hour long, you could get a second FP for a second ride before you ride your first FP ride. Then, while holding 2 FPs, go wait in a stand-by line in a third attraction. You would have the return time window from the first FP ticket to ride the stand-by ride and the first FP ride.

Based on what you said was printed on your FP ticket, they may have recently changed the rules to bar you from getting a second FP until the last 5 minutes of the return time window of your first FP. If this is true, then, if you use your first FP as soon as the window opens, you have to wait 50 minutes before you can get another one.

Also, I've heard that some attractions (Haunted Mansion is one of them I think) whose FP system is not hooked up to the other FP system. So, they do not know that you are holding a FP for, say, Space Mountain, and will give you one for HM. If this "glitch" is still true, using the method above, you could hold 2 FPs at once PLUS one FP from each of the FP attractions not hooked-up to the main FP system.

Disney is “incenting” me to this behavior. In some ways, this puts others who are not as experienced at a disadvantage. Why should this be the case? They paid for their admission too – probably more since they most likely don’t have an AP.

I don't think it is unfair to put these ideas into practice; especially the first one mentioned above. The ability to do this should be obvious to anyone who looks to see if there is an ID on the FP ticket. Since there is not, the system obviously has no way to know when you ride the ride.

 

[KNWVIKING]

"Since the FP tickets have no way to identify whose they are (no ID), when they collect your FP ticket from you when you board your ride, they do not enter it into a computer to keep track of when you used it in order for the computer to know you can now get your second FP."

The FP issue machine track the tickets based on your park pass,so it knows exactly when you were last issued a ticket & when the next ticket is availible.

 

[morphi]

The FP issue machine track the tickets based on your park pass,so it knows exactly when you were last issued a ticket & when the next ticket is availible.

You're right that the FP system knows who you are (the ID of your park admission ticket) and the return time window of your FP. But that's all it knows.

What I was referring to was that it does not know when you ride the ride during that 1 hour window. Since you do not swipe your park admission ticket when you board your FP ride and since your FP ticket (the actual piece of paper) does not have any numbers or bar codes on it to tie it back to your park admission ticket ID, they do not know when you ride. Since this is the case, you can (or could) get a second FP ticket at the beginning of your 1 hour window and not ride that first FP ride until the end of your 1 hour window; thereby holding 2 FP tickets for almost one hour.

 

[morphi]

If they have changed this with a new release of the software, that’s probably a good thing.

I don't think it's such a good thing. If they do not allow you to get a second FP until the last 5 minutes of your 1-hour return time window and if you ride the FP ride during the first minute of your return time window, you have to wait 54 minutes after you ride to get a second FP.

So the choice seems to be to allow a FP at the beginning of the window or the end. Why not split the difference and make us wait until 1/2 way through the window to get a second FP. Of course, I don't know why it had to be changed (from allowing a second FP at the beginning of the window) in the first place. I doubt the few people who figured out this method of holding 2 FPs were causing havoc with the system.

The other solution is to track when you actually ride the ride and not allow you to get a second FP until you either ride the ride or the return time window has completely expired. This would require the FP tickets be printed with some ID number on it and for the CMs collecting your FP tickets when your board the ride to feed them into the computer. This would require extra labor expense and more hardware at each ride loading location. I doubt this would happen.

 

[raidermatt]

... printed with the time I could get my next FP ticket. If I had a ticket good from 1:00 till 2:00, I could get my next FP at 1:55. I don't see how I could squeeze in a stand-by line ride between 1:55 and 2:00. How do you do it ?

Maybe I missed it, but is this really how FP works now? I haven't been since last June, so maybe it is... But my understanding is you can get a second FP at the sooner of either 2 hours after you got the last FP, or at the BEGINNING of your window. This is how it worked in May/June of last year.

Was there a change?

 

[KNWVIKING]

I know there was a 5 minute window. I'm nearly certain it was 5 minutes before the end time of your existing pass. Maybe it was 5 minutes after the start of the FP. Maybe oldtimers disease is setting in.

 

[All Aboard]

Yep Vike, a little oldtimers is setting in. You're right about the 5 minutes, but it's at the beginning of the window. The theory being that it takes at least 5 minutes to "use" the FastPass (and all the lit tells us we can get another one once we "use" the first.) So, if you draw a FastPass with at return time of 1:00 to 2:00, at 1:05 you can get your next.

Follow this link and you'll see an example: Link to image of fastpass

So, you can be in 3 queues at one time. I've been in queues at two different parks at one time!

 

[seashoreCM]

Disney (and Universal) can vary the ratio of fast pass to regular riders. For Test Track, a sign says that as little as one regular party (averaging four people) goes with each group (averaging 40 people) which averages to ten percent regular riders if there are people in the fast pass line. Both lines come together at the same place where groups are assembled.

Meanwhile at Space Mountain and Big Thunder and Primeval Whirl there is dual loading. They could (don't know for sure) use a fifty percent fast pass rider ratio.

I would not go back to the bad old days before Fast Pass. Back then, no matter what you did, on some days you would have to wait an hour to go on Splash Mountain or Space mountain any time during park hours. Today I at least have the choice to plan things so I can avoid those lines, maybe not ride at the exact hour I wanted but at least keep the wait in line under 15 minutes.

And I am not out to set records on how many fast passes I can hold or how many lines I can wait in virtually at the same time. All I know is that when the return time arrives (or at most two hours since I got the pass), give or take a few minutes, I can get another fast pass.

Yes, the regular line moves slower when there are people in the fast pass line. So long as the wait time as posted is accurate, I can make an accurate choice to join or not join the regular line.

Disney hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm