Fastpass going away???

[WonkaKid]

TSMM, FNSV and Pooh are good signs that DLR mgmt has abandoned the concept at DLR...

Actually, I was told by a CM once that new rides intentionally don't offer riders FPs because they want to increase the ride's hype. I know, it sounds counter intuitive but I suppose their research shows that it works. For example, Nemo doesn't offer FPs. Yet. I was told that it would offer them later.

 

[JenDisneylandlver]

I've found that it can make the stand by line worse depending on the CM controlling it. We've had a few times where they would just let those with fp go and go. We stood there forever (this was for Buzz and HHM). For Buzz the people were quite upset and complaining quite loudly. But for most of the time CM's do a good job at keeping both lines moving.

 

[Mike_M]

Actually, I was told by a CM once that new rides intentionally don't offer riders FPs because they want to increase the ride's hype. I know, it sounds counter intuitive but I suppose their research shows that it works. For example, Nemo doesn't offer FPs. Yet. I was told that it would offer them later.

If that is true, then it would be adding to the problems I described and the line that many people complain about (Nemo) would become not only long but intolerably slow as well which is the number one complaint I have against FP. If the queue is not specifically designed for FP, than adding it later interrupts the natural flow of the line for a majority of the guests. Also, I hate to mention, but if your CM's statement was true, than why did TSMM at WDW get FP right off the bat and DCA's didn't? Why did POTC remove FP years ago and HM stopped using it during the summer? The trend currently is looking like FP is being considered a failed experiment at DLR and rightfully so IMHO.

Right now only 7 attractions (8 if you count HMH) use FP and only one of them has a queue that was supposedly designed for FP (BLAB). That's it. Nothing in Fantasyland uses it. Nothing in NOS uses it during peak seasons. That leaves one ride in Critter Country, one in Frontierland, one in toon town, one in Adventureland and three in Tomorrowland (Which is the most complained about land at DL. Coincidence? ). If DLR was more in favor of the system, I would think it would be more widespread than that. Peter Pan, Star Tours, JC, and Pooh have FP at WDW. As does HM there year round. It obviously works better at WDW than at DLR and I think should be something unique to WDW.

DL existed for a long time without FP. I don't understand why anyone would say that this would ruin DL since I don't believe it was ruined before FP came along. Especially since a majority of the attractions at DLR do not use it.

 

[Mike_M]

I guess we will know a lot more about FP and DLR as the DCA refurb continues. Will Little Mermaid (2011) have it? How about the Test Track implementation in Cars Land (2012)? If neither of these have FP I think it will be strong indication that DLR is ramping back on FP. My guess (and it is purely a guess) is at least one of these will have FP.

Whether Disney will phase out FP is hard to tell. FP is popular among Disney visitors and there would be some backlash if they removed it.

I agree that these are the tests. If FP were to go away, I don't see it happening for at least a couple years and it would probably be phased out rather than just cut across the board to lessen the PR impact. I have to say though, that DLR surrived the IASW modifications despite the firestorm of critisizm. I think they could surrive the backlash.

 

[JenDisneylandlver]

DL existed for a long time without FP. I don't understand why anyone would say that this would ruin DL since I don't believe it was ruined before FP came along. Especially since a majority of the attractions at DLR do not use it.

This is true, but I also think the crowds are much different these days. Not only were there not FP, but there also wasn't AP's either. Locals couldn't drop in every weekend, or during the week without paying full price. I think this is has driven up the crowds dramatically there. So when looking at that issue, I think that's a bigger problem to stand by lines then FP is these days.

I'm always amazed at what people consider low crowds these days, because I'm so used to the days before AP's. They needed something like FP to help those of us who can only come once or twice a year (or less).

 

[HydroGuy]

Right now only 7 attractions (8 if you count HMH) use FP and only one of them has a queue that was supposedly designed for FP (BLAB). That's it. Nothing in Fantasyland uses it. Nothing in NOS uses it during peak seasons. That leaves one ride in Critter Country, one in Frontierland, one in toon town, one in Adventureland and three in Tomorrowland (Which is the most complained about land at DL. Coincidence? ). If DLR was more in favor of the system, I would think it would be more widespread than that. Peter Pan, Star Tours, JC, and Pooh have FP at WDW. As does HM there year round. It obviously works better at WDW than at DLR and I think should be something unique to WDW.

DLR has not had a big new ride for a long time. Most would say Indy (1995) is the last E-ticket built at DL. BLAB and FNSV are considered D ticket rides. As I said in an earlier post I do not think FNSV is a good indicator about FP because of its super low capacity. BLAB was opened in 2005 and of course includes FP. The most likely reason no FPs are used in Fantasyland is that space is at a premium. Bottom line is I do not think recent FP implementation at DL is a good indicator of anything because new rides have been minimal. Along these lines DL does need a huge new draw (i.e., a new E-ticket) at some point as FNSV did not fit the bill. Alas I think the work at DCA will keep that from happening for awhile yet.

As far as DCA goes we have three new rides in recent years. ToT, a solid E-ticket with FP. TSMM, a solid D-ticket without FP. And Monsters Inc, a C-ticket ride not appropriate for FP.

Regarding queue design and FP I understand your point. But I would add that the Space Mtn refurb involved a queue change and hence accommodates FP as well as anything else.

 

[PinkBudgie]

Ok, at this point I just have to ask. What is BLAB? For the life of me I cannot figure that out! I'm sure it will be obvious, but I just can't think!

 

[Mike_M]

This is true, but I also think the crowds are much different these days. Not only were there not FP, but there also wasn't AP's either. Locals couldn't drop in every weekend, or during the week without paying full price. I think this is has driven up the crowds dramatically there. So when looking at that issue, I think that's a bigger problem to stand by lines then FP is these days.

I'm always amazed at what people consider low crowds these days, because I'm so used to the days before AP's. They needed something like FP to help those of us who can only come once or twice a year (or less).

Does anyone know when exactly DL started APs? I honestly have no idea when those were introduced. I can see your point about the increase in people but it didn't feel that way to me on the three trips I've made to DL this decade. HM and POTC's lines felt no longer then they ever have (Shorter actually in some cases). And to be honest, I could say that for nearly every other non-FP ride at DL. The only lines that felt slower / longer to me were the ones that added FP. Space Mtn was always long but it used to move much faster in the 80's and 90's so it was more tolorable back then (Plus you spent more time inside where it was air conditioned. Now you stand in switchbacks outside for most of your time in line sweating your butt off).

The lines for the most part were originally designed to distract you from the fact you were in a line. Interesting things to look at, climate controlled areas and a line that was constantly moving. The standby lines for FP on the other hand are horrible by comparison. you are moving very slow, exposed to the elements and just dosen't feel very 'Disney' to me.

 

[HydroGuy]

Ok, at this point I just have to ask. What is BLAB? For the life of me I cannot figure that out! I'm sure it will be obvious, but I just can't think!

Buzz Lightyear Astro Blasters, of course!

See DLR Abbreviations List - www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1520784

 

[PinkBudgie]

Buzz Lightyear Astro Blasters, of course!

See DLR Abbreviations List - www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1520784

Thanks, I knew it was going be a no brainer! I guess I just call it Buzz. For some reason I went all through the park and could only think of Big Thunder Moutain that started with B. I will just claim that end of year craziness has turned my brain to mush. It's wonder I can type.

 

[DLR29]

Right now only 7 attractions (8 if you count HMH) use FP and only one of them has a queue that was supposedly designed for FP (BLAB). That's it. Nothing in Fantasyland uses it. Nothing in NOS uses it during peak seasons. That leaves one ride in Critter Country, one in Frontierland, one in toon town, one in Adventureland and three in Tomorrowland (Which is the most complained about land at DL. Coincidence? ). If DLR was more in favor of the system, I would think it would be more widespread than that. Peter Pan, Star Tours, JC, and Pooh have FP at WDW. As does HM there year round. It obviously works better at WDW than at DLR and I think should be something unique to WDW.

FP is not on DLR's:

-Peter Pan because there is no space at all
-Star Tours because there's not as much of a demand. At DHS, Star Tours is one of the main attractions
-Jungle Cruise because there's certainly not as much of a demand. When was the last time you saw a JC line over 15-20 min?
-Pooh same reason as JC.

HM at WDW does not have FP anymore.

So I've been kinda following the thread over there and I even posted once scared1. Basically the main argument against FP is that it increases the stand-by lines everywhere in the park, and w/o FP the lines would be based on guests' desires instead of people joining lines and making them longer to "kill time" before they use their FP. I find this argument so stupid, but w/e. Most of the complainers are AP holders who, when they see a long line, they just skip it because they can. But they do not think of the tourists, especially the one day visitors who want to do as much as possible with the limited time that they have.

I like FP, I use it a lot and I get a lot done with it. I would be sad if FP was removed, but I'd adapt and figure out a new way to tour and maximize my time at DLR.

 

[stitchon]

Fastpass does terrible things to queue times for most rides, so much that chances are that queue times would be faster if Fastpass didn't exist....

However, I don't see Disney doing away with FP just yet. I can see Disneyland dropping it, but not the entire group of resorts.

 

[Mike_M]

HM at WDW does not have FP anymore.

Good to know.

I've been reading the posts over there as well and contributed to them some. I seem to have been the only non-local, non-AP guy in favor of getting rid of FP so I've been kinda caught in the middle. I never really even thought about it much until my recent spring break trip when it was just so painfuilly obvious to me how inefficient the standby lines are and especially how the Indy queue is not handled well at all. Space Mtn's standby line is so bad that it almost is a FP only attraction now because of how slow and long that line has become because of FP directly. It's horrible. At 11:30 PM everynight, the queue time was still 45min or longer. It just dosen't work on that queue.

I just think that there has to be a better way that dosen't force people into having to plan out their whole day around FP if they don't want to. FP prevents you from being able to ride anything on a whim anymore. you have to plan it all out now OCD style or suck it up and spend an hour and a half in line for one ride just so a small percentage of guests can get a head of the line pass. I think it was better before FP.

 

[HydroGuy]

Space Mtn's standby line is so bad that it almost is a FP only attraction now because of how slow and long that line has become because of FP directly. It's horrible. At 11:30 PM everynight, the queue time was still 45min or longer. It just dosen't work on that queue.

The thing is Mike, I have been riding Space Mtn since the 70's and it has always been that way both pre-FP and post-FP. I remember waiting in line for 90 minutes for Space Mtn back in the 80's.

And the thing is, as I said already the queue for Space Mtn was completely redone in 2005 after a 2 1/2 year refurb. If the queue is poor now it is not because of FP. Disney had a chance to redo the queue with FP in mind.

If anything is making lines longer now is that attendance has grown so much. The way for DL to knock lines down is to build some more people eaters that can handle 2500-3000 people per hour.

Does FP work in favor of those who know how to use it? Definitely. Does it work against those who do not know how to use it? Maybe. Probably. But that goes with many things. Like this DIS forum...

 

[mystic_path]

Yeah I think this would totally put people off if they got rid of fast passes. But I have to agree with other posters. I wouldnt be surprised if they put on a fee for fast passes like Universal Studios does. At Universal you have the option of purchasing a "Front of the line" pass. It costs a bit more but its an option to bypass everyone.

 

[Mike_M]

The thing is Mike, I have been riding Space Mtn since the 70's and it has always been that way both pre-FP and post-FP. I remember waiting in line for 90 minutes for Space Mtn back in the 80's.

Granted, I was young in the 80s (Born in '76, Space Mtn Opened in '77) but I don't remember any of our experiences with Space Mtn being as painfull as the standby line is now.

And the thing is, as I said already the queue for Space Mtn was completely redone in 2005 after a 2 1/2 year refurb. If the queue is poor now it is not because of FP. Disney had a chance to redo the queue with FP in mind.

I don't know if I would really call it a queue redesign. You enter in the back rather than in the front on a speed ramp and then stand 'stop and go' style in the former overflow switchbacks until you enter the building and combine with FP holders which from then on is nearly identical to its original design except for the windows that used to look out on the ride that are now closed off. It's essentially what they did on Indy. The standby line primarily exists in what used to be the overflow line. It's just pushing the bulk of the line outside. Again, not really a redesign. Therefore, Disney did not redo the queue with FP in mind which calls into question their support of the system. If they believed it would be a permanant option, then perhaps since they had the opportunity they would have enclosed the outside queue area and made a more comfortable or entertaining queue experience. Instead, it looks like a temporary solution to something they don't really know what to do with.

If anything is making lines longer now is that attendance has grown so much. The way for DL to knock lines down is to build some more people eaters that can handle 2500-3000 people per hour.

It's not so much the length of the lines, it's the painfully slow pace of them now. A long line that is moving at a steady pace is noticably better then one that is stop and go. It's like sitting in rush hour traffic now.

Rides I could find hourly capacity info on for reference:

• 
  Space Mtn's capacity is roughly 2000 People per hour

• Indy is 2400 People Per hour

• JC is about 1800 People per hour

• FNSV is around 1000 People per hour

• POTC is roughly 3000 People per hour

Does FP work in favor of those who know how to use it? Definitely. Does it work against those who do not know how to use it? Maybe. Probably. But that goes with many things. Like this DIS forum...

I don't doubt this for a moment. I never said I don't know how to use FP effectivly. I simply prefer to not have to plan my day around it. It's a chore that interupts the way I prefer to enjoy the park. If I started my day with no intention of Riding Space Mtn then change my mind later in the day, I'm either stuck with getting a FP for the end of the day (If there are still any avaliable) or sucking it up and standing in line. FP takes all the spontinaity out of the park and forces the guest to use it.

Someone said essentially the following on the other site and at this point it's probably good advice.

I highly doubt that either side of this issue is going to get any converts no matter how strong the arguement is by the other side. On this point I will agree to disagree.

 

[DisDancerina]

I understand that many use Fastpass, but I believe the real value/timesaver is single rider.
I did a kind of study where someone got on the wait line for Splash and I went single rider. I went a few times before she even got on the ride. Then, ended up on the same boat as her for her first ride.
It was kind of funny, actually.
The only ride I practically ever use FP for is Space Mountain, but even that's pretty good most of the time. I think that's the only ride I have ever used FP for, actually. It's kind of funny, think of single rider as a break from your family, it's not like you can have a conversation with them during the ride, you usually say how awesome it was afterwards. Disregard this if you have kids that are too young to ride alone or if you are hoping to get a picture.
Then again, the Fastpass can definitely be a valuable tool for larger families, if you know how to use it

 

[DisneySuiteFreak]

I've heard of this rumor before. I don't know what to think of it honestly. I was surprised to see so many fastpass machines down on our trip in April. While considered a more "slow" time of the year, it was still plenty busy enough to have fastpass working. It was the first time I had ever encountered that. The lines were quite long on those rides too.
Sure hope they don't ever take it away!

In my experience they do this intentionally (shut down some of the ride cars/boats/etc) to make it appear that the ride is in higher demand than it really is. It's psychological. The more you have to anticipate it, the more you want it/appreciate it. Also, I'm sure the less cars they are operating for a ride, the less personnel they require to run it. I saw this a lot in my January trip -- after the 3rd of course; once the crowds died down.

This s why we go to IOA when we go to orlando, front of the line while staying on site and the hard rock hotel is so much fun and the rooms are super nice.

Some of the longest lines I have ever waited in in my entire life was at IOA in July 2001. They offered this option even then. It was so frustrating to be in a line with a wait time that said 60 minutes and then be only halfway through the line 60 minutes later because they kept allowing all the VIPs who paid for it ahead of us no matter how long the line. The FOL pass is horrible in that it penalizes anyone who can't afford to pay for it or in my case refuses to pay for it. We're paying enough for our ticket media! FP levels the playing field and makes it open for anyone who knows/understands how to use it. And anyone can learn how to effectively use it.

Early and late in the day I see it all the time. Partially filled boats on POTC, JC and IASW. Some DoomBuggies on HM sent out empty. Empty seats on BTMRR. When I was at DL a few weeks ago we rode Alice in Wonderland and the Tea Cups with many unused vehicles/cups about an hour after park opening and two hours after Magic Morning started.

Think of it this way. Assume for a moment that DL increased the number of FPs issued. It is common knowledge that operators run many rides purposely at reduced capacity early and late in the day. Instead of five trains running on BTMRR they run two and then ramp up to five as the lines build.
FP causes people like me to grab FPs in the morning, skip Space Mtn and Splash Mtn until mid-day, and go on rides running at under capacity. When I do this I am not riding those rides when they do get to capacity which frees up a seat for someone else. If not for FP I would be getting in the Space Mtn and Splash Mtn lines first thing and not going on Alice or Tea Cups. With FP more total riders can go on rides in a given day.

I agree -- I've seen all of the above you described on each of my trips. I do the same as you -- grab the FPs and ride the rides that are at a lower capacity.

I have to admit that I would support the removal of FP at DL. On my Spring Break trip it was all too obvious to me the negative affect FP has on the lines at DL. The queues were not designed for FP and the standby lines are considerably longer and slower than they should be as a result. ...It's a different resort with different guest trends and attendance numbers. Let's allow DL to return to the way it was designed; No FP.

Sorry I totally disagree. I still have horrific memories of waiting 2.5 hours to go on Splash Mountain in DL in the height of summer before they started issuing FP. It was sheer misery! If they ever went back to no FP's, I know I wouldn't go to the park as often as we do now. (Once a year, but this year we have APs so at least 2x) It's not fun waiting in a 2.5 hour line for any ride. FP is a lifesaver.

I jsut wanted to say LEAVE FP ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We love FP and use it all the time, we use it well and it really does help. I can honestly say we would stop getting APs for DL if there were no more FPs. Seriously, and with the amount of trips we make that would seriously hurt DL. Not like we are single handedly keeping them in business but they would notice the loss of our revenue.

I agree! Leave it alone!

Fastpass does terrible things to queue times for most rides, so much that chances are that queue times would be faster if Fastpass didn't exist....However, I don't see Disney doing away with FP just yet. I can see Disneyland dropping it, but not the entire group of resorts.

Sorry I disagree again. I waited in a line for IASW this past January; that was the longest line I've ever waited in to go on IASW! It wrapped all the way back to the walkway near Matterhorn and around many times before you ever even got in front of the attraction! I've never waited in a line like that for IASW when it had FP. A lot of people used to whine about what FP was "doing" to the lines for IASW (making it longer) and were happy when they got rid of it. Not me. Now I'll only go on it late at night after it dies down. In January, it never died down. I got in line before 10pm. By the time I got out of the ride, the park was getting ready to close - at midnight. If that's not an insanely long line without FP, I don't know what is.

 

[peterandlisa]

I hope not!! We asked the same thing and were told there was not enough physical room to put one in for Toy story. It was worth the wait though!

 

[peterandlisa]

Here is an AMAZING fast pass tip. the Grizzly water rapids FP is not connected to the rest - so you can hold a fast pass for it and anything else!! I suggest getting one for it as well as Soar'n as soon as you hit the park. As you enter the Grizzly - grab another fast pass to use later (if you like to get wet!!)