Fantasy dry dock changes like the Dream?

[Gdes1]

Maybe this has been discussed, but I was just reading something else about what was done to the Dream during dry dock and I guess most people think the Fantasy is in for the same treatment. It sounds like: more concierge rooms and/or updates there, adding a funnel suite, cutting Vibe and Edge in half space-wise to squeeze them together because of the new suite, and maybe some superficial updates elsewhere like refreshing the carpeting. Oh, and I guess updates to Oceaneers.

Anyway, the author of this other post (reddit, I think) made some points like how DCL is just getting worse about catering to the wealthy and ultra-wealthy. That taking the teen spaces for ONE suite that hardly anyone can afford is a lame thing to do. And that most of the changes being made won't even be seen by 90% of the people who sail. Someone also made an interesting point...cutting the teen space while updating the 10 and under space, while Lookout does the same thing (no dedicated teen space, but huge splash thing for kids) kind of sends the message that they aren't focused on families with teens.

While we like the oldest ships the best, we did enjoy the Fantasy and I would have booked that again. Now, I'm not so sure. If you've been on the Dream before and after these changes and have comments, I'd love to hear them. Or just any comments. On the Fantasy, the CM who did the Art of the Theme tour talked about how old-time cruising (like Titantic-era) was so classist and Disney wanted everyone to have the same experience. I'm kind of wondering how he said that with a straight face, given the funnel suite books for the price of a new car. I get they are looking for ways to get every last dollar they can. It just seems to be getting worse and worse.

 

[asgur5]

Its odd to shrink the teens room when they have also removed access to the kids clubs for 11-12s.

Basically they are giving up on over 10s

 

[Cfabar1]

It seems to me they are basically ceding a lot of the cruise market to other players that have more diverse offerings. they want to have a certain clientele. That's why we prefer the older ships personally compared to the newer ones.

It seems to me the target DCL customer is becoming HENRYs with young kids, and on occasion multigenerational cruises where well to do Grandma and Grandpa are footing the bill so the grandkids (maybe around ages 6 & 8) can enjoy a Disney Cruise.

We may very well switch to Celebrity or Princess as soon as it is feasible for our family... 13k for a 10 night cruise on a 14 year old ship is just starting to seem a bit excessive for DCL... But the kids might be bored on a ship like that, so that's why we stick with DCL...

 

[Gdes1]

Its odd to shrink the teens room when they have also removed access to the kids clubs for 11-12s.

Basically they are giving up on over 10s

Yeah, that's what the post seemed to be implying. Kind of sad.

 

[Gdes1]

It seems to me they are basically ceding a lot of the cruise market to other players that have more diverse offerings. they want to have a certain clientele. That's why we prefer the older ships personally compared to the newer ones.

It seems to me the target DCL customer is becoming HENRYs with young kids, and on occasion multigenerational cruises where well to do Grandma and Grandpa are footing the bill so the grandkids (maybe around ages 6 & 8) can enjoy a Disney Cruise.

We may very well switch to Celebrity or Princess as soon as it is feasible for our family... 13k for a 10 night cruise on a 14 year old ship is just starting to seem a bit excessive for DCL... But the kids might be bored on a ship like that, so that's why we stick with DCL...

Honestly, as much as we've always loved it (and the parks), it hurts to think my kids club experience was altered for someone who would spend $30k on just a suite, not even the whole vacation, like it's nothing. That just doesn't feel right. The getting up at midnight to rush online and try to book stuff, the whole scarcity thing and being at parks staring at your phone for Genie+, it's all getting to be too much. Being on FB groups where people who have finally scraped together enough for a DCL cruise are trying to figure out how to get a shot at a BBB appt for their little girl, and people who have 15+cruises under their belt and have kids who get to do that every year are like, "Maybe someone will cancel and you can get an appt." It just feels....wrong.

 

[o&smom]

Yes, but even the people who have now gone on 15 cruises, had to play the same game in the beginning to pray for a cancellation or try to get something once on the ship.

 

[Gdes1]

Yes, but even the people who have now gone on 15 cruises, had to play the same game in the beginning to pray for a cancellation or try to get something once on the ship.

But my point is, for many, this is a once in a lifetime thing, not a "let me spend $10k on a few vacations so that I, too, may someday eat brunch at Palo" I used to joke that DCL should pay me a commission for way I talked up the cruises and how great they were for kids. But when I got my hair done this last time, I was honest with my hairdresser that I wasn't going to try to sell her on it because of how hard it would be to book anything for her or her kids and she agreed. Very few people can afford what you have listed in your signature. Yet, DCL knows this and promotes the scarcity mentality, similar to how Genie+ works in the parks because it drives revenue. And I can't remember now if I read this here, or on reddit or FB, but one person pointed out that the getting up at midnight to check-in, etc is disrespectful to their guests time. And I think that's a really good point.

 

[o&smom]

But my point is, for many, this is a once in a lifetime thing, not a "let me spend $10k on a few vacations so that I, too, may someday eat brunch at Palo" I used to joke that DCL should pay me a commission for way I talked up the cruises and how great they were for kids. But when I got my hair done this last time, I was honest with my hairdresser that I wasn't going to try to sell her on it because of how hard it would be to book anything for her or her kids and she agreed. Very few people can afford what you have listed in your signature. Yet, DCL knows this and promotes the scarcity mentality, similar to how Genie+ works in the parks because it drives revenue. And I can't remember now if I read this here, or on reddit or FB, but one person pointed out that the getting up at midnight to check-in, etc is disrespectful to their guests time. And I think that's a really good point.

I agree. I also feel that there is a lot to experience just by being on the ships and visiting different ports, especially on a first or only cruise. There is so much pressure to have to do everything that it can take away some of the joy of just being there. We have been very blessed to have gone on multiple cruises. Our first was expected to be our one and only. It was a 10 night for only $999 per person! We take advantage of every discount we can find, or travel when prices are lower. We are doing Alaska in September on an 8 night for half of what it would have cost to do a 7 night in summer. I think all of the extras are over promoted and people feel like they are missing out by not getting every extra reservation. You can have an amazing and less stressful cruise by just enjoying all that there is to do that is already part of the cruise.

 

[Gdes1]

I agree. I also feel that there is a lot to experience just by being on the ships and visiting different ports, especially on a first or only cruise. There is so much pressure to have to do everything that it can take away some of the joy of just being there. We have been very blessed to have gone on multiple cruises. Our first was expected to be our one and only. It was a 10 night for only $999 per person! We take advantage of every discount we can find, or travel when prices are lower. We are doing Alaska in September on an 8 night for half of what it would have cost to do a 7 night in summer. I think all of the extras are over promoted and people feel like they are missing out by not getting every extra reservation. You can have an amazing and less stressful cruise by just enjoying all that there is to do that is already part of the cruise.

I do agree. Ours are also "deals". First time on the Magic was a double dip, the week before Thanksgiving, which seems to be one of the cheapest weeks of the year. And then we did EBPC on the Wonder, right before Christmas, and that was also a steal, back then. It just feels "off" to me to have to tell someone else "You will spend more on this vacation than you ever have but have to be OK with not getting to book extra stuff." I think some places have lotteries for things...I'm trying to think of an example...like certain bigger races or marathons. And some special vacation spots. You can't buy your way in. Or, a certain number of folks can, but then it's lottery and others have the same odds. I wonder if a certain amount of reservations for things were set aside like that, would that hurt DCL financially? I don't see how, if you are still expected to pay the same rate for your Royal Tea or cabana that you won in the lottery system. Would Pearl folks quit sailing DCL if they weren't guaranteed more Palo/Remy or whatever on each sailing? Again, probably not. I think, for me, and I understand maybe I'm the only one, but this would leave a better taste in my mouth. And I still think cutting the teen space was lame. I can only assume they have data on attendance and didn't think they need it. Or, as others said, they are purposefully not catering to families with older kids.

 

[o&smom]

Totally hate what they have done with kids clubs recently, especially the changes on Dream and soon to be Fantasy. DS is now 21, but he started cruising at 7 and has enjoyed making many memories and friends along the way. He was sad to miss out on a last chance to go to the teen club during Covid shutdown. DD is 14 and started cruising at 3 months. I know a lot of people were upset with the old age range in the club and lab. I never experienced it being a problem. It worked out well for us since our kids were almost 7 years apart. My kids were not fans of that change, even though it did not effect them since they were older. DD was looking forward to having time in the Vibe on the Dream or Fantasy. She was in the Edge on the Dream in 2023. Luckily she got to experience the funnel on that cruise and will be able to do the same on the Wonder and Magic. DD has loved it so much that she wants to work on Disney in the kid’s clubs when she is older. I am so happy that we started cruising when we did so that our kids could experience things the way they were. Having said that, if we started cruising today we would not know what we were missing out on. We have not been fans to many changes over the last few years at the parks and on the ships. I have spent time researching other cruise lines. At this time, even with the changes, I think we would still miss Disney.

 

[holula]

I agree. I also feel that there is a lot to experience just by being on the ships and visiting different ports, especially on a first or only cruise. There is so much pressure to have to do everything that it can take away some of the joy of just being there. We have been very blessed to have gone on multiple cruises. Our first was expected to be our one and only. It was a 10 night for only $999 per person! We take advantage of every discount we can find, or travel when prices are lower. We are doing Alaska in September on an 8 night for half of what it would have cost to do a 7 night in summer. I think all of the extras are over promoted and people feel like they are missing out by not getting every extra reservation. You can have an amazing and less stressful cruise by just enjoying all that there is to do that is already part of the cruise.

I would agree with all of this. I only sail out of season (except for maybe 2 cruises!), and look for the best price. I also agree there is such a huge focus on people wanting to do everything on their cruise - I don’t think vlogs and influencers have helped this because people now think they need to have the “perfect” cruise and if they don’t it’s going to be ruined. On my first DCL cruise I barely knew what was offered.

I don’t think it’s the people who have sailed 15+ times that are booking BBB either honestly. More like the gold and silver members who struggled to get it on their first cruise.

 

[Mommb]

Honestly, as much as we've always loved it (and the parks), it hurts to think my kids club experience was altered for someone who would spend $30k on just a suite, not even the whole vacation, like it's nothing. That just doesn't feel right. The getting up at midnight to rush online and try to book stuff, the whole scarcity thing and being at parks staring at your phone for Genie+, it's all getting to be too much. Being on FB groups where people who have finally scraped together enough for a DCL cruise are trying to figure out how to get a shot at a BBB appt for their little girl, and people who have 15+cruises under their belt and have kids who get to do that every year are like, "Maybe someone will cancel and you can get an appt." It just feels....wrong.

I understand that having to rush to book activities to increase the likelihood of being able to get them is annoying. But what would be a better option?

Allow activity booking as soon as initial booking is made -- this favors guests who can plan vacations well in advance and will require people who book later to look frequently at the list (possibly for many months) to notice when a cancellation is made

Allow activity booking as soon as final payment is made -- this favors not only guests who can plan vacations well in advance but also guests who don't need to save up to make the final payment.

Have all or some of booking be by lottery -- this could work for very in-demand bookings such as the Cabanas, which feel like a lottery anyhow. For adult dining or BBB with many possible times and dates, I'm not sure how this would work -- if you have a lottery with 200 winners, what if they all want the same day and time? For excursions, how could you get a second choice if you didn't win your first -- would there be a series of lotteries?

I wonder what proportion of Disney cruisers actually do stay up until midnight ET to book. Certainly on boards like this it feels like a high percentage, but the people on this board are not necessarily representative of all Disney cruisers. For most cruisers, especially people on their 1st or 2nd cruise, there is so much to do onboard that they may not even want to take time away for Palo or Remy brunch. On most if not all of my cruises, there have still been adult dinner reservations available a month before cruising -- not every night, but some nights. I'm fairly sue I've also seen BBB slots available -- again, not every day, but some.

Most of the activities on a Disney cruise -- rotational dining, theater shows, deck parties, kids' clubs, character meets, crafts, trivia, musical performances -- require no advance planning at all. There are sometimes lines, but they are open to everyone.

On the Fantasy, the CM who did the Art of the Theme tour talked about how old-time cruising (like Titantic-era) was so classist and Disney wanted everyone to have the same experience. I'm kind of wondering how he said that with a straight face, given the funnel suite books for the price of a new car. I get they are looking for ways to get every last dollar they can. It just seems to be getting worse and worse.

Other than the change to Edge (which I don't know enough about to judge), the expanded rooms and services for Concierge guests have had very little impact on non-concierge guests. Everyone eats in the same dining room at similar tables ordering the same food. Everyone can attend the same shows. Concierge guess have embarkation lunch and a lounge, but no one else even sees that. They may have early access to the theater, but there are plenty of seats left for everyone else. If Disney can make money from people willing to pay extra for advantages that other guests don't even see, I have no problem with that.

 

[dreamer17555]

Taking public spaces like Edge or part of satellite falls deck 13 area and placing them behind a concierge paywall does impact all guests.

More concierge guest rooms (and therefore guests) also makes it harder to secure things like Palo Brunch and excellent seats for the shows.

And adding on more concierge rooms even devalues concierge for those guests as well- making things like securing a cabana more difficult. And the idea of paying concierge prices for a room far flung from the lounge and under the pool deck with the chair scrapping is beyond me but I guess some new to DCL might not realize it.

The only ones who benefit from added concierge rooms is DCL- not any of the guests.

 

[Gdes1]

Taking public spaces like Edge or part of satellite falls deck 13 area and placing them behind a concierge paywall does impact all guests.

More concierge guest rooms (and therefore guests) also makes it harder to secure things like Palo Brunch and excellent seats for the shows.

And adding on more concierge rooms even devalues concierge for those guests as well- making things like securing a cabana more difficult. And the idea of paying concierge prices for a room far flung from the lounge and under the pool deck with the chair scrapping is beyond me but I guess some new to DCL might not realize it.

The only ones who benefit from added concierge rooms is DCL- not any of the guests.

Yes, exactly. Spruce up the whole ship, all of the rooms, not just the concierge ones. (And I realize they do things like carpet/paint/cleaning in dry dock, regardless.)

Also, re: more concierge rooms, this is what would discourage me from booking it if I ever wanted to pay that much. Again, it's like Genie+ in the parks...if everyone has it, no one has it.

 

[Gdes1]

Totally hate what they have done with kids clubs recently, especially the changes on Dream and soon to be Fantasy. DS is now 21, but he started cruising at 7 and has enjoyed making many memories and friends along the way. He was sad to miss out on a last chance to go to the teen club during Covid shutdown. DD is 14 and started cruising at 3 months. I know a lot of people were upset with the old age range in the club and lab. I never experienced it being a problem. It worked out well for us since our kids were almost 7 years apart. My kids were not fans of that change, even though it did not effect them since they were older. DD was looking forward to having time in the Vibe on the Dream or Fantasy. She was in the Edge on the Dream in 2023. Luckily she got to experience the funnel on that cruise and will be able to do the same on the Wonder and Magic. DD has loved it so much that she wants to work on Disney in the kid’s clubs when she is older. I am so happy that we started cruising when we did so that our kids could experience things the way they were. Having said that, if we started cruising today we would not know what we were missing out on. We have not been fans to many changes over the last few years at the parks and on the ships. I have spent time researching other cruise lines. At this time, even with the changes, I think we would still miss Disney.

My kids loved Vibe on the Fantasy. But we are doing the Magic next, which they don't remember (except seeing themselves as babies and toddlers in photos). We explained and showed them videos so they would not be expecting the Vibe from the Fantasy. And now, I guess if we do the Fantasy again, we have to explain Vibe is different yet again.

 

[Cfabar1]

But my point is, for many, this is a once in a lifetime thing, not a "let me spend $10k on a few vacations so that I, too, may someday eat brunch at Palo" I used to joke that DCL should pay me a commission for way I talked up the cruises and how great they were for kids. But when I got my hair done this last time, I was honest with my hairdresser that I wasn't going to try to sell her on it because of how hard it would be to book anything for her or her kids and she agreed. Very few people can afford what you have listed in your signature. Yet, DCL knows this and promotes the scarcity mentality, similar to how Genie+ works in the parks because it drives revenue. And I can't remember now if I read this here, or on reddit or FB, but one person pointed out that the getting up at midnight to check-in, etc is disrespectful to their guests time. And I think that's a really good point.

We have always been able to eat at Palo - even from our first cruise.... We have decided to wait on that until we are Platinum when it is free.... My point is, the whole "it is impossible to eat at Palo" thing has never been our experience....

 

[dreamer17555]

We have always been able to eat at Palo - even from our first cruise.... We have decided to wait on that until we are Platinum when it is free.... My point is, the whole "it is impossible to eat at Palo" thing has never been our experience....

Being able to secure a dinner reservation at Palo has never been that difficult with a few exceptions for sailings that are Pearl and Platinum heavy... however getting Palo brunch is much more difficult. I agree that it is not a make or break add on for DCL... certainly nothing I would pay concierge prices to secure but I think new DCL cruisers have heard about Palo brunch and have massive FOMO.

 

[dreamer17555]

I do agree. Ours are also "deals". First time on the Magic was a double dip, the week before Thanksgiving, which seems to be one of the cheapest weeks of the year. And then we did EBPC on the Wonder, right before Christmas, and that was also a steal, back then. It just feels "off" to me to have to tell someone else "You will spend more on this vacation than you ever have but have to be OK with not getting to book extra stuff." I think some places have lotteries for things...I'm trying to think of an example...like certain bigger races or marathons. And some special vacation spots. You can't buy your way in. Or, a certain number of folks can, but then it's lottery and others have the same odds. I wonder if a certain amount of reservations for things were set aside like that, would that hurt DCL financially? I don't see how, if you are still expected to pay the same rate for your Royal Tea or cabana that you won in the lottery system. Would Pearl folks quit sailing DCL if they weren't guaranteed more Palo/Remy or whatever on each sailing? Again, probably not. I think, for me, and I understand maybe I'm the only one, but this would leave a better taste in my mouth. And I still think cutting the teen space was lame. I can only assume they have data on attendance and didn't think they need it. Or, as others said, they are purposefully not catering to families with older kids.

I think a lottery system might hurt DCL financially. Pearl and Platinum cruisers might not stop cruising DCL over not securing Palo brunch... but they will stop if they don't feel valued as a repeat guest. DCL already has one of the weakest loyalty programs in the cruise industry. If they take away the perk of booking things first they would need to replace it... and I honestly cannot think of something they could give to loyal to DCL cruisers to make them still feel valued that would not cost DCL money besides first dibs at booking (and priority boarding but Pearl already has that).

And half the people that book concierge do so to hope to secure a cabana or because they want Palo brunch and Royal tea and know they do not have the status to get it... If it is a lottery system less guests will pay concierge prices and that hurts DCL's bottom line.

As to what DCL is doing with older kids... it is going to come back to bite them at some point but right now they are all in on the under 10's and largely ignoring the 11+ kiddos. Actually with the Trition (Wish) class of ships you could argue they are even ignoring the adults... that adult pool is a joke. They should at least make the chip & dale fwd pool an adult space to help balance everything out but nope... I could rant about the direction DCL is taking focusing only on kids under 10 for hours but let's just say Im not a fan and I think it is very shortsighted.

 

[minniebeth]

We have always been able to eat at Palo - even from our first cruise.... We have decided to wait on that until we are Platinum when it is free.... My point is, the whole "it is impossible to eat at Palo" thing has never been our experience....

Consider yourself fortunate then! We are Platinum and have never been able to make a brunch reservation or get a cancellation on four cruises on the Wish and on some other specialty cruises.

Also, I think it's really sad that they are taking away space from the teens~ our kids grew up in the teen spaces and were part of their core vacation memories growing up. I want that for other teens! It also gives older kids a constructive place to be rather than roaming the ship in little packs unsupervised. jmo

 

[Gdes1]

Being able to secure a dinner reservation at Palo has never been that difficult with a few exceptions for sailings that are Pearl and Platinum heavy... however getting Palo brunch is much more difficult. I agree that it is not a make or break add on for DCL... certainly nothing I would pay concierge prices to secure but I think new DCL cruisers have heard about Palo brunch and have massive FOMO.

Which is odd, because I liked the buffet style version and am not interested in not having that! And, yes, I agree the whole thing is complicated, I don't like the direction they are going in (nickel and diming everyone while making it so adults and families with teens can get squeezed out).