Family of 5 (three kids, two adults) looking to purchase!

[DVC Doctor]

Best of luck! We are in almost the exact position (family of 5, 3 young children) but looking to buy resale at BLT. We love the Epcot resort area but they don't have 1 bedrooms that sleep 5 ☹

After doing a pretty exhausting rounds of research, discussions with resale reps, and too many spreadsheets. I think we are now on the "Renting Points" train. I am also considering buying resale and selling in 15-20 years when the kids will be in college. In the long term it's hard to get over the cost of maintenance fees years from now. Having a larger family really kills it because we need so many points for the times we would normally travel.

Well, this may not be a popular suggestion, but you can stay offsite for much cheaper that onsite. Even if you buy HGVC timeshare they have 4 locations in Orlando and all are nice and MUCH less expensive than DVC. When you get the bug, just rent points to stay on site when you feel the need. Also, renting allows you to jump around different resorts with no outlay of money to buy.

 

[havoc315]

Well, this may not be a popular suggestion, but you can stay offsite for much cheaper that onsite. Even if you buy HGVC timeshare they have 4 locations in Orlando and all are nice and MUCH less expensive than DVC. When you get the bug, just rent points to stay on site when you feel the need. Also, renting allows you to jump around different resorts with no outlay of money to buy.

Plus, there are times that a cash room is actually cheaper than renting (especially 1 bedrooms).

So by skipping buying, you can really just optimize each trip with what works best. If free dining ever comes back, and especially when 3 children become "Disney adults," free dining can be a significantly better discount than DVC ownership or point rental. When there are 35-40% off rack rate specials, a 1 BR on cash can often be cheaper than point rental.

For example, they currently have 30% off early summer..

So week of June 12-June 19th..
1 BR, standard view, at BWV -- $4051
Points: 218
-- The DVC rental agencies typically charge $20-$21 per point. But ... $4051 for 218 points is only $18.58 per point. (And you lose daily housekeeping by going through DVC).
So an example where cash may be better than DVC.

Even more extreme... May 15-22, 1 BR standard view at Riviera, $5,027 --It would be 300 points. So it's cheaper to just use cash, with the break even point being $16.75 per point. (And this is with a 30% room discount.. if the room discount was 35-40%, it would blow away DVC points).

 

[Hopfather28]

Well, this may not be a popular suggestion, but you can stay offsite for much cheaper that onsite. Even if you buy HGVC timeshare they have 4 locations in Orlando and all are nice and MUCH less expensive than DVC. When you get the bug, just rent points to stay on site when you feel the need. Also, renting allows you to jump around different resorts with no outlay of money to buy.

Plus, there are times that a cash room is actually cheaper than renting (especially 1 bedrooms).

So by skipping buying, you can really just optimize each trip with what works best. If free dining ever comes back, and especially when 3 children become "Disney adults," free dining can be a significantly better discount than DVC ownership or point rental. When there are 35-40% off rack rate specials, a 1 BR on cash can often be cheaper than point rental.

For example, they currently have 30% off early summer..

So week of June 12-June 19th..
1 BR, standard view, at BWV -- $4051
Points: 218
-- The DVC rental agencies typically charge $20-$21 per point. But ... $4051 for 218 points is only $18.58 per point. (And you lose daily housekeeping by going through DVC).
So an example where cash may be better than DVC.

Even more extreme... May 15-22, 1 BR standard view at Riviera, $5,027 --It would be 300 points. So it's cheaper to just use cash, with the break even point being $16.75 per point. (And this is with a 30% room discount.. if the room discount was 35-40%, it would blow away DVC points).

Get out of here with your use of facts and logic that makes me second guess my DVC ownership. Nobody needs that kind of negativity in their lives.

 

[DVC Doctor]

Do you know what "Disney's Best Kept Secret" really is?

Sometime cash prices are better than using points.

I booked a trip to Aulani and it was cheaper to pay cash promotional rate (direct from Disney) than it was to use points and it may even be cheaper if I used Costco or another travel site, but I stuck with Disney and paid on credit card and can cancel 24 hours before checkin if I have to. If someone rents points, then cancelling becomes a major issue.

 

[Hopfather28]

Plus, there are times that a cash room is actually cheaper than renting (especially 1 bedrooms).

So by skipping buying, you can really just optimize each trip with what works best. If free dining ever comes back, and especially when 3 children become "Disney adults," free dining can be a significantly better discount than DVC ownership or point rental. When there are 35-40% off rack rate specials, a 1 BR on cash can often be cheaper than point rental.

For example, they currently have 30% off early summer..

So week of June 12-June 19th..
1 BR, standard view, at BWV -- $4051
Points: 218
-- The DVC rental agencies typically charge $20-$21 per point. But ... $4051 for 218 points is only $18.58 per point. (And you lose daily housekeeping by going through DVC).
So an example where cash may be better than DVC.

Even more extreme... May 15-22, 1 BR standard view at Riviera, $5,027 --It would be 300 points. So it's cheaper to just use cash, with the break even point being $16.75 per point. (And this is with a 30% room discount.. if the room discount was 35-40%, it would blow away DVC points).

All joking aside with your analysis. Even with the relatively poor value of a BWV purchase given contract length, a recent contract for 250pts purchased by a Disboard member cost $33023 after closing and fees. With the 21 years left on the contract that works out to 1572.52 per year. Of course there are dues so at the current 7.81 per point the total comes to $3525 for that same week AND you have extra points. Just a counterpoint.

 

[RoseGold]

I booked a trip to Aulani and it was cheaper to pay cash promotional rate (direct from Disney) than it was to use points and it may even be cheaper if I used Costco or another travel site

Aulani's a weird one, because it can be the absolute best against cash value. I mean right now, maybe not so much. Unpopular opinion here, but I wouldn't be going to Aulani anyway for a Hawaiian vacation, so many other options for the money.

As for the OP, DVC shines against cash rates for peak times. For race weekends, even the most expensive option of BCV probably works against cash values. BUT it expires in 2042, so you have to commit to run out the clock IMO, mathematically.

 

[havoc315]

All joking aside with your analysis. Even with the relatively poor value of a BWV purchase given contract length, a recent contract for 250pts purchased by a Disboard member cost $33023 after closing and fees. With the 21 years left on the contract that works out to 1572.52 per year. Of course there are dues so at the current 7.81 per point the total comes to $3525 for that same week AND you have extra points. Just a counterpoint.

I was talking about renting DVC points.. but even buying:
If you got a resale contract of exactly 218 points, given the current market rate of about $130 per point... plus closing.. you're paying about $6.50 per point, per year. Plus dues of $7.81 per year. For a total of $14.31 per year. For a 21-year prepayment discount of 22%. And while a 22% discount in raw totals isn't insignificant, it's rather insignificant for a 21 year pre-payment.
In fact, had you just stuck the initial purchase $$$ of $30,000 into some fairly safe investments.. and applied your interest/profits to your trips, you'd do much better.
(If you invest $30,000.. get a mere 5% return, apply the return to cash rooms, that $4051 cash room is only $2500... Do that for 21 years, at the end, your total OOP costs for 21 years is $22,500 ($2500 X 21 - $30,000 still in the bank). Buying DVC, total OOP costs is $65,700. So you would have saved $43,000 by booking cash rooms vs DVC).

 

[havoc315]

Aulani's a weird one, because it can be the absolute best against cash value. I mean right now, maybe not so much. Unpopular opinion here, but I wouldn't be going to Aulani anyway for a Hawaiian vacation, so many other options for the money.

As for the OP, DVC shines against cash rates for peak times. For race weekends, even the most expensive option of BCV probably works against cash values. BUT it expires in 2042, so you have to commit to run out the clock IMO, mathematically.

DVC values mostly shine for studios. DVC values tend to be mediocre at best, for 1 bedrooms. (When using points, 1 bedrooms are usually more than double the price of studios. When paying cash, 1 bedrooms are only priced slightly more than studios).

 

[RoseGold]

(If you invest $30,000.. get a mere 5% return, apply the return to cash rooms, that $4051 cash room is only $2500... Do that for 21 years, at the end, your total OOP costs for 21 years is $22,500 ($2500 X 21 - $30,000 still in the bank). Buying DVC, total OOP costs is $65,700. So you would have saved $43,000 by booking cash rooms vs DVC).

Sure, if the cash rooms stay the same cost. And if you're still going to Disney in 21 years. The coolest feature of O14 DVC was that you could sell it. The speculation is that average ownership is 8-ish years.

 

[MICKIMINI]

With 26 years experience with DVC I'd definitely recommend buying so you can stay on property and buy enough points to meet your needs. You don't need to buy them all at once. No one can judge your financial capability but you. If you can afford it do it. Cheaper isn't always better when it comes to WDW. Time and enjoyment of the resorts is worth every penny IMHO. If DVC is on your bucket list go for it.

Our son was 8 when we bought. He's now 33 and married and we meet there for an annual family vacation during F & W. We've stayed at many resorts in all size villas as family, empty nester trips and large extended family trips. Each visit is a totally unique vacation because that is what DVC is designed to be and what sold us in 1996.

Many people start with a resale contract and then add on direct. It is easier to match UY's that way. Many of us own multiple contracts at multiple resorts. If you have the same UY for all contracts, you can combine points at 7 months.

Do buy where you want to stay as OP's have said. There is tons of info on disboards, check the ROFR thread and study point charts. Imagine your vacations and work the numbers. Enjoy!

 

[havoc315]

Sure, if the cash rooms stay the same cost. And if you're still going to Disney in 21 years. The coolest feature of O14 DVC was that you could sell it. The speculation is that average ownership is 8-ish years.

Good luck selling BWV in another 15 years.. when there are only 6 years left in the contract.
Yes, the future price of cash rooms is unknown... increases in dues are unknown.. and whether one will still be going to WDW in 21 years, unknown. And to make up for all those unknowns, one hopes to get a big potential discount. When not getting much of a discount, why prepay for all those unknowns.

 

[Sandisw]

I would call DVC and ask about the fixed week for the princess marathon. They have sold FWs that move with the marathon events in the past. Now that those events are all canceled for the foreseeable future, it's not clear what they are doing with that. The guide should at least be able to get you a concrete price and answer on the fixed week. The FW point charts have shown some interesting math, and I would at least want an answer from Disney about what the choices are.

Personally, I would never buy RIV because of the resale restrictions and the crazy point chart. I would be looking at BLT, which also sleeps 5 in a 1BR, much better point chart than RIV, and can be bought resale easily. You can get into a BLT 2BR for the points of a RIV 1BR when I travel. If I were buying the inflated RIV point chart, I would do it at VGF, and I did. You should know the point cost for all the resorts you would consider for your travel dates. Others like AKL have similar math.

This is a huge decision. Take your time! DVC is not going anywhere. Check out the resale pricing. Run the math. Run it again. Know the charts. Know the pricing. Think about how you plan to sell. Think about your vacations ten years from now, twenty years from now. Buying RIV direct is a BIG, long term commitment, buying resale BLT not so much.

Only thing to caution regarding BLT is that studios are 4 and small compared to most That would require a 1 bedroom or larger always for a family of 5.

While a studio at RIV might not be ideal long term, with little ones under 6, for a few years it is doable...we did CR hotel with 5 for years...so points will go farther there potentially in the short term. RIV also has the split bath with two bathing areas that BLT does not have

 

[havoc315]

While a studio at RIV might not be ideal long term, with little ones under 6, for a few years it is doable...we did CR hotel with 5 for years...so points will go farther there potentially in the short term. RIV also has the split bath with two bathing areas that BLT does not have

This is an interesting point.
A lot of people love BLT and AKV for the "extra bathroom" -- Their 1 bedrooms have 2 bathrooms, their 2 bedrooms have 3 bathrooms.

But Riviera actually has "almost 2 bathrooms" ... With studios having a second shower, And 1 bedrooms having 2 rooms, 1 with vanity and tub, 1 with vanity, shower and toilet.

So Riviera only has 1 toilet in studios and 1 bedrooms.. but does have 2nd showers/vanities, separated into different areas.

 

[BillPA]

2 showers doesn't make 1 toilet any better. Why would you want to pay more points for less?
When that Florida water starts working on you 'gut' you will miss the 2nd toilet.

 

[DVC Doctor]

Sure, if the cash rooms stay the same cost. And if you're still going to Disney in 21 years. The coolest feature of O14 DVC was that you could sell it. The speculation is that average ownership is 8-ish years.

In all my readings the average DVC owner is MUCH higher than 8 years (typical number for other timeshares) and DVC has some of the highest original ownership of any timeshare. In fact, I think it is over 90% of DVC members have NOT sold their contract, but I have not been keeping up with that stat.

2 showers doesn't make 1 toilet any better. Why would you want to pay more points for less?
When that Florida water starts working on you 'gut' you will miss the 2nd toilet.

Pool bathroom or lobby bathroom can be a lifesaver, just hope you are not at the end of that long Riviera or BWV hallway when the rumble starts to happen.

 

[JC1984]

Family of 5 here. 3 kids under 5. We are in the process of purchasing 220 points resale at Aulani. We plan on doing 8 days a year in a 1 bedroom villa (with a couple days extra if needed) swapping each year at Aulani and WDW and have the ability to travel during the slower January seasons. We feel that gives us plenty of time and gives us a break from too much of one thing. I wanted 275 points because that is what Disney “recommended” but I think 220 will be plenty. 2025 and 2030 we will rent our points to fund our trips to Disneyland Paris and Tokyo Disney. Good luck and hope this helps.

 

[Stargazer65]

2 showers doesn't make 1 toilet any better. Why would you want to pay more points for less?
When that Florida water starts working on you 'gut' you will miss the 2nd toilet.

You just put one of these in the other shower room. Keep it in your DVC locker...make sure you empty it first before you stow it. Otherwise it's not such a "Disney magic moment" when you open up the DVC locker at arrival.

 

[Sandisw]

2 showers doesn't make 1 toilet any better. Why would you want to pay more points for less?
When that Florida water starts working on you 'gut' you will miss the 2nd toilet.

I was referring to studios. A BLT studio can’t accommodate a family of 5 and a RIV one can so while kids are young, that is a huge plus to have that second area for baths, etc. and not be forced into a 1 bedroom.

But, other than BLT and AKV, you aren’t getting two until a 2 bedroom and BCV is the other resort the OP was considering.

 

[havoc315]

2 showers doesn't make 1 toilet any better. Why would you want to pay more points for less?
When that Florida water starts working on you 'gut' you will miss the 2nd toilet.

Or you'd miss all the extra space that you don't get at BLT..

It's all trade-offs.
More space, 2 shower/baths.... or less space, with 2 toilets..

Or... BLT... studio, only 1 toilet and 1 bath.

Basically,
BLT studio: 339 square feet, 1 bath, 1 toilet
Riviera studio: 423 sf, 2 baths/showers, 1 toilet

BLT 1 BR: 803 sf, 2 toilets, 3 baths/showers
Riviera 1 BR: 813 sf, 1 toilet, 2 baths/showers

.


2 BR lockoff:
BLT: 1152 sf, 3 toilets, 4 showers/baths
Riviera: 1246 sf, 2 toilets, 4 showers/baths

So in studios, Riviera wins both square footage and bathroom space, by a lot
In 1 bedrooms, Riviera wins square footage narrowly, BLT wins the bathroom space with an extra toilet and shower
In 2 bedrooms, Riviera wins square footage comfortably, they tie in showers/baths... BLT has an extra toilet.
All tradeoffs.

 

[kboo]

Or you'd miss all the extra space that you don't get at BLT..

It's all trade-offs.
More space, 2 shower/baths.... or less space, with 2 toilets..

Or... BLT... studio, only 1 toilet and 1 bath.

Basically,
BLT studio: 339 square feet, 1 bath, 1 toilet
Riviera studio: 423 sf, 2 baths/showers, 1 toilet

BLT 1 BR: 803 sf, 2 toilets, 3 baths/showers
Riviera 1 BR: 813 sf, 1 toilet, 2 baths/showers

.


2 BR lockoff:
BLT: 1152 sf, 3 toilets, 4 showers/baths
Riviera: 1246 sf, 2 toilets, 4 showers/baths

So in studios, Riviera wins both square footage and bathroom space, by a lot
In 1 bedrooms, Riviera wins square footage narrowly, BLT wins the bathroom space with an extra toilet and shower
In 2 bedrooms, Riviera wins square footage comfortably, they tie in showers/baths... BLT has an extra toilet.
All tradeoffs.

While a studio at RIV might not be ideal long term, with little ones under 6, for a few years it is doable...we did CR hotel with 5 for years...so points will go farther there potentially in the short term. RIV also has the split bath with two bathing areas that BLT does not have

I also just put in another thread to consider VGF resale with a family of 5, especially if the kids are young and you know you'll be at MK a lot. The studios also have the split bath (2 showers)

Oh: I looked up the square footages:

VGF: studio: 374 (!! RIV wins), 1br: 844, 2br: 1232. So comparable to the Riviera but without the pesky resale restriction* and walking distance to MK.

*we own at Riviera too....