Extreme Non-Smokers?

[VSL]

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This has got to be the saddest statement I have ever read from another DISer on these boards.. My mouth literally dropped opened when I read this..

I could never in a million years be friends with someone who is as shallow as you have clearly indicated you are by that statement..

I won't even get into how low "my" opinion is of people who are so shallow.. Actually I don't think I could even put it into words because I have never met anyone that shallow... It's soooooooo sad..

How on earth is finding smoking to be an awful disgusting habit 'shallow'?

Honestly people, I do not say/act these things out loud IRL. This thread called for a discussion on the subject and I contributed.

I don't go up to people in real life and say, 'hey, that's bad for your health', or 'wow, I hate smoking, that's disgusting'. It's an inner, personal feeling that I have.

I gave my opinion because the OP wanted a discussion.


(now I know what it feels like to be 'flamed' - I don't think I'll bother next time)

 

[TCPluto]

As for cats being a poor analogy, use dogs instead! I mentioned it earlier but lots of people are pushing to allow dogs to be virtually everywhere. There are people allergic to or afraid of dogs so I think that that is perhaps a good correlation.

Never seen or heard of this.

But I would agree, dogs, cats, fish, in the public venues where contact with those that have a health issue with them would be a problem. Currently, it's not an issue, as these animals are not in these venues, except for service dogs.

Until the dogs, cats, or fish are in these venues to the extent smokers are, better to save the analogy for another time.

 

[C.Ann]

How on earth is finding smoking to be an awful disgusting habit 'shallow'?

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Go back and read your own words regarding your lowered "opinion" of people based on their habits..

If that isn't shallow, I don't know what is..

 

[TCPluto]

And Pluto, as usual you have no idea what you are talking about. I don't have to be physically exposed to a cat to have an allergic reaction.

So, sorry, but the analogy IS appropriate.

Brief exposure to second hand smoke is not in the least bit dangerous, despite the hysterics of some that would have you believe that second hand smoke kills on first contact.

Just responding to what you posted rev, sorry.

Analogy still doesn't work. Your analogy about a cat at home would be like you smoking at home and then sitting next to the person who is sensitive medically to the smoke. If that was your arguement, I would agree.

But what you are talking about is taking you "cat", the smoking, into the realm of those that have a medical issue with it.

Your arguement for brief exposure not causing cancer hazards is likely correct. But for those that have health issues due to asthma, or other respiratory disorders, seem to have a very real issue with the second hand smoke. Not the smoke on you from smoking at home, but the smoke that your pollute your surroundings with in the instant.

 

[cteddiesgirl]

This brings up another question...
I know that I'm in the UK and the majority of 'you' are in the US or Canada, but is it legal to smoke when driving? And, if it is (which I imagine it is, in all three countries, as cars come with ashtrays), is it also legal to eat at the wheel (like a chocolate bar - not a full course meal!)?

I know that a nurse in the UK got fined a year or so back for eating an apple while driving, but I've never heard of anyone getting fined for smoking. Just seems odd.

Actually, In the US, you can pretty much do whatever you want (short of drinking alcohol or smoking marajuana) while driving. As long as you're not all over the road or getting into accidents (which by the way, lots do). I've seen people driving down the road putting on make-up, reading (not maps), smoking, eating, drinking, on the phone without a headset, fiddling with the radio, etc. Gee, can you figure out why there are so many accidents?
And as long as you don't injure or kill someone, it's all pretty legal.

And I still can't see what the problem is with quitting. I know so many people that say they are quitting or that it's so hard. I did smoke for about a year when I was about 13. Of course I did it only in the home cause I was underage and behind my parents backs. I easily quit when I figured that I was just doing it to be cool with my best friend at the time. And of course my allergies acted up while smoking.
My mom smoked 2 packs a day for over 20 years and quit cold turkey and never smoked again through the day she died.
My dad smoke heavily also for almost 30 years when he also quit cold turkey for his New Years Resolution. He still has never smoked another cigarette. And it's been 20 years. Also, my ex smokes and he never actually craves it.
So personally, I don't get it.
Maybe none of us had personalities to be addicted to smoking.
Although I am addicted to chocolate (& sugar in general) and butter pretzels.
Although, If anyone I know ever turly wants to quit any habit or addiction, I'm there for them.

 

[VSL]

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Go back and read your own words regarding your lowered "opinion" of people based on their habits..

If that isn't shallow, I don't know what is..

Good gracious, I never said that I would never talk to smokers, or that I see myself as some higher being (as I said before, I mentioned my major habit downfall to prove that I consider myself to have major flaws), or that they are any less of a person.

I guess I wrote everything a bit briefly (and I apologise for that).

When I was talking about feeling a bit 'let down' when finding out that someone I admire smokes, I was talking about someone who I may 'look up to'. Now, obviously, I'm past that stage, but it comes from when I was younger.

Maybe I was looking for someone to look up to (rather than my mother who, interesting as she may be and although I love her, is not someone I am inspired by) and if/when I found out that person smoked I associated them with my mother (who, like I said, was not someone I considered to be inspirational - in a dream chasing way).


Like I said, I don't think I'll bother next time.

 

[vivilasvegas]

Sorry, I guess when I was explaining addiction and said you can't stop even when you want to, I should have said you can't "just" stop, even when you want to. I didn't know my original statement was hard to comprehend.

And to the other poster who "can't see the problem with quitting"...all you are getting is a from me for my answer!

sometimes just says it all!

 

[disykat]

I don't get why people are so upset at VSL for saying she "finds herself thinking less of someone" and that she see's the habit as sad and pathetic. I am sure people think less of me for things about me they don't approve of. They probably also find those things sad and maybe even a little pathetic. For example, I'm a sloppy dresser. I can easily see people thinking less of me, or thinking it is sad or even pathetic - if they are a person for whom dressing well is a priority.

While I wouldn't say it aloud to them or allow my judgements to cause me to treat them differently, I still think it. I'm sure they do about me as well.

Since we are not talking specifically about anyone, but are simply giving opinions on a topic - I don't get where people are so up at arms about those comments.

 

[eclectics]

And I still can't see what the problem is with quitting. I know so many people that say they are quitting or that it's so hard. I did smoke for about a year when I was about 13. Of course I did it only in the home cause I was underage and behind my parents backs. I easily quit when I figured that I was just doing it to be cool with my best friend at the time. And of course my allergies acted up while smoking.
My mom smoked 2 packs a day for over 20 years and quit cold turkey and never smoked again through the day she died.
My dad smoke heavily also for almost 30 years when he also quit cold turkey for his New Years Resolution. He still has never smoked another cigarette. And it's been 20 years. Also, my ex smokes and he never actually craves it.
So personally, I don't get it.
Maybe none of us had personalities to be addicted to smoking.
Although I am addicted to chocolate (& sugar in general) and butter pretzels.
Although, If anyone I know ever turly wants to quit any habit or addiction, I'm there for them.

Once again, your experiences with smokers seem to be the exception to the rule. To the majority of smokers, quitting is nothing even resembling easy.

 

[vivilasvegas]

I don't get why people are so upset at VSL for saying she "finds herself thinking less of someone" and that she see's the habit as sad and pathetic. I am sure people think less of me for things about me they don't approve of. They probably also find those things sad and maybe even a little pathetic. For example, I'm a sloppy dresser. I can easily see people thinking less of me, or thinking it is sad or even pathetic - if they are a person for whom dressing well is a priority.

While I wouldn't say it aloud to them or allow my judgements to cause me to treat them differently, I still think it. I'm sure they do about me as well.

Since we are not talking specifically about anyone, but are simply giving opinions on a topic - I don't get where people are so up at arms about those comments.

I guess because I don't see myself as being better than anyone. (which is the same as thinking less of someone).

If I saw a sloppy dresser, I could care less. If see an obese person, I wouldn't think of them being sad and pathetic, or think less of them, I would just be happy that isn't a problem in my life I have to deal with.

A drug user, I don't think I'm better than them, just luckier that I'm not in that situation.

I won't judge people (usually, unless they are purposely hurting someone else....or lying). After all, how could I? I used to smoke. And how can you say she isn't talking specifically about anyone when there are all these people on this thread who smoke or have smoked????

I guess how I live my life is different than hers/yours and her comments are offensive to me. And you are right, some things you keep to yourself. Obviously we all think mean things once in a while, but you don't say them...or type them!!!!

 

[sweet angel]

Holy crap! How did a question about whether or not a message on a car window was extreme turn into this?

I would respectfully request that anyone who has never smoked regularly for a good amount of years kindly refrain from passing judgment on those who smoke and can't/won't/aren't ready to quit. If you've never been there, you simply don't know.

To those who have remained rational and polite -- thank you.

 

[disykat]

I won't judge people. After all, how could I? I used to smoke.

I guess how I live my life is different than hers/yours and her comments are offensive to me.

So it's okay to judge people who make judgements about people though? I just think making judgements about other people is a natural part of life - it's called having an opinion. Whether you allow those judgements to affect your actions is what counts. It's hard for me to imagine people not forming opinions on people based on what they know.

It never occured to me that "thinking less of someone" could be defined as you think you are better than them. I would define it as your opinion of them going down a notch. IMO that is unrelated to what your opinion of yourself is.

Since she clearly stated it wouldn't make a difference in her ability to be friends with someone, I just don't get the upset.

 

[VSL]

So it's okay to judge people who make judgements about people though? I just think making judgements about other people is a natural part of life - it's called having an opinion. Whether you allow those judgements to affect your actions is what counts. It's hard for me to imagine people not forming opinions on people based on what they know.

*emphasis mine*

Thank you so much disykat, for saying so simply what I couldn't say in about ten paragraphs

I guess my first post came across as incredibly harsh to the smokers here and I have spent nearly every post since trying to say that, while I don't approve of something (I don't think anyone 'approves' of smoking, but you get what I mean), I keep that feeling inside and treat that person as I would anyone else.

 

[vivilasvegas]

So it's okay to judge people who make judgements about people though? I just think making judgements about other people is a natural part of life - it's called having an opinion. Whether you allow those judgements to affect your actions is what counts. It's hard for me to imagine people not forming opinions on people based on what they know.

It never occured to me that "thinking less of someone" could be defined as you think you are better than them. I would define it as your opinion of them going down a notch. IMO that is unrelated to what your opinion of yourself is.

Since she clearly stated it wouldn't make a difference in her ability to be friends with someone, I just don't get the upset.

I didn't judge you, I said I lived differently than you. I don't pay attention to the way other people live their lives, you guys do. I didn't judge you, just said we have different philosophies. If I argue with you or disagree with you, it's not that I judged you and found myself to be better, I just don't like the way you are thinking and would choose not to talk to you. There are people in my life that I would never think I was better than them, but I also don't want to be friends with them.

And if you think less of someone, how could you not automatically think you are better than them?

And I have opinions. Like I think what you guys are saying is wrong! While you may be able to think less of me, but still be my friend (how nice of you, by the way)....I won't think less of you, I just won't be a friend to a person who would think less of me, get it?

And since you only quoted part of me, her post was speaking to the smokers/ex-smokers on this board, so she was insulting them.

 

[jtnsami]

Holy crap! How did a question about whether or not a message on a car window was extreme turn into this?

I would respectfully request that anyone who has never smoked regularly for a good amount of years kindly refrain from passing judgment on those who smoke and can't/won't/aren't ready to quit. If you've never been there, you simply don't know.

To those who have remained rational and polite -- thank you.

I couldn't agree more.

The bottom line is that people are gonna do whatever they want whenever they want. Whether it be legal, illegal, inconsiderate, intolerable, disgusting, vice versa, and the list goes on and on. This is going to be a never ending debate on both sides of the fence. I have my opinions and other people have theirs. That's life, and thank God it is free will.

 

[Free4Life11]

As an accounting major my concern is the financial impact. What is the cost to Medicare/Medicaid for treating smoking-related stuff?? In our state Medicaid is out of control, it's one of the top expenses. It just keeps going up up and away! I think states should focus more on anti-smoking campaigns.

When I was in school they brought in the smokers lung and the regular lung. Do they still do that? I think they need to start that up again.

 

[Free4Life11]

For the life of me I don't understand why anyone would go out into public and do something they know will cause discomfort to others and just not care.

Selfishness. It's the "me me me first" attitude that is so prevalent these days.

 

[disykat]

I didn't judge you,
.

That is your opinion. Opinion = Judgement. Look it up in any dictionary.

I'll take one more stab at my definition of "thinking less of" someone. If I have a very high opinion of someone, maybe even think they are perfect, and my evaluation of them slips down slightly as I start to see their faults more realistically - I "think less of them". It doesn't mean I think I am better than them.

I don't think you can say it automatically meant that unless people had some kind of hierarchy for ranking people based on opinions of them. I honestly don't know anyone who does that. I don't know anyone who bases their opinion of other people on a comparison with themselves. I think that's a very odd notion. I think opinions on others are formed without even putting yourself into the equation. I know I certainly don't think about whether I think someone is "more" or "less" than me. Your assumption that people do, quite honestly, puzzles me.

 

[Planogirl]

Never seen or heard of this.

But I would agree, dogs, cats, fish, in the public venues where contact with those that have a health issue with them would be a problem. Currently, it's not an issue, as these animals are not in these venues, except for service dogs.

Until the dogs, cats, or fish are in these venues to the extent smokers are, better to save the analogy for another time.

Actually, the latest trends are that more and more hotels and stores are allowing dogs. There are movements to allow restaurants to let owners bring their dogs too.

You might be surprised at how much more common it is to see people with their pets in the mall and various other places. It's quite stylish to own a tiny dog and carry it along in your purse or whatever. I see them quite often now.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong but I do believe that the analogy is a good one.

 

[Viking]

Actually, In the US, you can pretty much do whatever you want (short of drinking alcohol or smoking marajuana) while driving. As long as you're not all over the road or getting into accidents (which by the way, lots do). I've seen people driving down the road putting on make-up, reading (not maps), smoking, eating, drinking, on the phone without a headset, fiddling with the radio, etc. Gee, can you figure out why there are so many accidents?
And as long as you don't injure or kill someone, it's all pretty legal.

It's no wonder that in the USA 40,000+ people are killed on the roads every year Over here we have no general speedlimit, 82 million people driving in area of about 4% of the USA's size (Speaking about dense traffice!!) and we have less than 6,000 traffic related fatalities per year. Using a cell while driving is one demerit point and a stiff fine - unfortunately nevertheless people still do it, but the fines will be raised due to this soon.
And BTW, Sweden for example has long since prohibited smoking while driving.

As an enthusiastic convertible driver I HATE people throwing their butts out of their cars and I also hate the smell wafting over from their cars in slow traffic. But that smell neither will harm me nor anybody else. If they want to smoke it's their business - as long as they use their ashtrays. We live in a free country after all.