Exclusive Resort/Theme Park ...?

[jagson]

Several years ago I predicted WDW would become an exclusive theme park, ie theme parks open to only visitors staying in WDW hotels. I went down in flames then, but at the risk of repeat flameout pose the same predictions. My reasoning is that WDW is building enough rooms on property to accommodate, and that crowds would be more manageable and more ruly. Just think, if a visitor acts out in a violent, or other unacceptable manner, that person and their party are expelled from the park and their reservation is cancelled without remuneration. Recently, we've seen an uptick of unruly behavior in the parks. I bet very few of the perps were staying on property, and that much of the unruly behavior is due to overcrowding. Its repelling more civil and mature visitors from the parks. And I've heard the feedback that WDW only cares about the bottomline, regardless of their brand. I don't fully buy that. At some point I feel they have to address overcrowding, and behavior issues. I'm focusing only on theme parks, not other sites such as DTD shopping and dining, etc.
Bring it on, I can take it. Your thoughts.

 

[DVC Jen]

I seriously doubt that happening. A lot of locals shell out a lot of $$$ every year. While I am sure some locals would gladly stay in the onsite resorts, others would take it as a slap in the face. They do not want to cut off the income source.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Sorry, but no. Just throwing out something that certainly is way on the low side is that the cost of an average room would have to escalate to $10,000 plus per night and tickets would be mandatory or included. Yes, $10,000 is low..... I think you are way underestimating the number of rooms onsite and the visitors that are needed to operate all 4 parks at their current levels.

 

[com_op_2000]

As PP stated the locals who are AP holders and will not stand for it. RCID (the quasi-government agency, that runs the governmental agencies for WDW) would be dissolved just from the out cry of the locals. As I stated in your previous post about this, there will continue to be more rooms outside of WDW than inside the property limits. US is building a 4,000+ room resort where the closed Wet and Wild water park was, that will be the largest hotel resort in the Orlando area. So I do not believe that the parks will ever be closed to those staying outside the WDW resorts

 

[Chuck S]

Remember it was locals and DVC Members that helped keep the gates open after 9-11, the POP century resort construction was put on indefinite hold, and finally 1/2 of it was finished...then after several years the other half was finished and re-themed. And portions of other resorts were temporarily shuttered.

 

[jagson]

WDW will be forced to change to my predictions, either years or decades from now. Financially, is $100+ one-day ticket worth the price with overcrowding issues? Behavior of patron in the parks is deteriorating dictating changes. I predict WDW has a master plan to build enough rooms to accommodate the "desired" crowd number. And where did the $10,000 estimate come from? I suspect several decades down the road $10,000 will be worth a lot less than today. Are there other solutions to these obvious issues? Enlighten me, please.

 

[Chuck S]

Before they are "forced" to change their admission policy, they will open more gates. There is room for at least 3 more parks

 

[jagson]

Before they are "forced" to change their admission policy, they will open more gates. There is room for at least 3 more parks

A viable solution, more parks instead of more rooms.

 

[zavandor]

WDW offer perks to Florida residents to convince them to fill the parks and restaurants: discounted AP, TIW...
At the moment they are not only accepted, but lured into visiting WDW. We are a galaxy far far away from parks open only to onsite hotel guests.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

WDW will be forced to change to my predictions, either years or decades from now. Financially, is $100+ one-day ticket worth the price with overcrowding issues? Behavior of patron in the parks is deteriorating dictating changes. I predict WDW has a master plan to build enough rooms to accommodate the "desired" crowd number. And where did the $10,000 estimate come from? I suspect several decades down the road $10,000 will be worth a lot less than today. Are there other solutions to these obvious issues? Enlighten me, please.

Because there is a huge cost to operating those parks - ie, if it closed down to only guest onsite then they will have to pay for that 100% and it isn't going to be $200-$500/night rooms plus $100 for tickets. Not even close. Of course I didn't have a budget to pulled together nor the actual info available to figure what the amount would be but I'd bet it's at least that to follow the plan you are proposing.

Disney is using MDE to better the flow of people around the parks and to be able to accommodate more, not less and it doesn't seem to be deterring people from visiting. And no, I don't believe Disney will be adding that many more hotel rooms which would be needed to essentially bring attendance levels up to where they are today for operations. Instead they have done things like offer 13 months on AP's and discounts on 4 day tickets etc. to get more people.

 

[jagson]

Does anyone think that WDW could, or would, cap park admissions? Maybe split park hours into morning, afternoon and/or evening? Price tickets accordingly. Smaller crowds should enhance the experience. I stopped going to the parks several years ago (even though I have a non-expiring ticket), because it became an unpleasant experience. When I go to Orlando I always stay on property because of the convenience and ambiance, even though I don't go to the parks. Thoughts?

 

[Chuck S]

They do cap park admissions Parks have closed to incoming guests due to capacity. They usually close in phases and onsite guests are the last people denied admission.

Phase 1: guests with single day or no tickets are denied parking. Multi-day, AP holders, Onsite guests, guests from earlier in the day with parking passes and those with dining reservation are permitted
Phase 2: guests with multi day tickets that have not already been to a park that day are denied.
Phase 3: Only AP holders, onsite guests and those with dining reservations/special events tickets are permitted.
Phase 4: All guests are denied.

All of these are pretty rare, even Phase 1, and generally are only during peak December and New Year dates. Although I remember reading something around Easter several years ago.

 

[tjkraz]

Does anyone think that WDW could, or would, cap park admissions?

They already do cap attendance. But it's at a level much higher than normal daily attendance and that number isn't going to see any decreases.

Maybe split park hours into morning, afternoon and/or evening? Price tickets accordingly.

No.

Smaller crowds should enhance the experience.

Subjectively, you seem to believe that the experience needs to be enhanced. Others certainly agree.

Objectively, attendance suggests there are still more than enough people who think that the quality of experience is still in line with the price.

I stopped going to the parks several years ago (even though I have a non-expiring ticket), because it became an unpleasant experience. When I go to Orlando I always stay on property because of the convenience and ambiance, even though I don't go to the parks. Thoughts?

But in your first post you said "recently, we've seen an uptick of unruly behavior in the parks." If that comment was purely anecdotal--as in, you believe behavior has changed rather than having witnessed it personally--I suspect it's not reflective of reality.

Disney may very well continue building hotels. Although they're in no great hurry since Art of Animation is the only new addition in the last decade. Meanwhile they are sacrificing hotel rooms for DVC villas. They already have a period of exclusivity for hotel guests--it's called Extra Magic Hours.

Regardless, they aren't going to make parks exclusive to their hotel guests. Zero chance.

 

[jagson]

They do cap park admissions Parks have closed to incoming guests due to capacity. They usually close in phases and onsite guests are the last people denied admission.

Phase 1: guests with single day or no tickets are denied parking. Multi-day, AP holders, Onsite guests, guests from earlier in the day with parking passes and those with dining reservation are permitted
Phase 2: guests with multi day tickets that have not already been to a park that day are denied.
Phase 3: Only AP holders, onsite guests and those with dining reservations/special events tickets are permitted.
Phase 4: All guests are denied.

All of these are pretty rare, even Phase 1, and generally are only during peak December and New Year dates. Although I remember reading something around Easter several years ago.

I've learned something new, Thx

 

[LAX]

Can anyone think of a theme park that's only accessible by onsite guests? I think limiting a certain area of the park to onsite guests "might be" feasible, but certainly not an entire park.

LAX

 

[IrishEye]

As stated, WDW does have a capacity limiting program, I have not seen it initiated for the last several years. I do recall years ago Magic Kingdom and Hollywood Studios closing to non on property admissions during a holiday afternoon, not recently however. Attendance is down and more Fla resident offerings have come out. Maximum attendance does not spark deals like 30% off room or free dining plan, there are not enough rooms on property to fill parks. If more manageable crowds means not having to wait in line then it is an unreasonable expectation, currently only the most popular rides have the long lines. If anything the wait times overall have decreased in recent years, several are walk up walk on.

 

[CarolMN]

Maybe we've just been lucky. Can't honestly say that we've noticed ny "unruly" behavior in the parks when we have visited. Occasionally, we've encountered a few guests that we consider rude, but nothing that would warrant calling security or even bringing it to the attention of a nearby CM. We don't go during the summer or the more crowded Holiday times, though.

Rather than cap attendance in some way, it seems to me it would be a lot less expensive for Disney to deal more aggressively with the "bad" behaviors when they occur. I know that they do throw people out of the parks, and even "permanently" ban people from the parks & resorts, but their tolerance threshold for what some consider unruly behavior is probably higher than some would like.

 

[crisi]

Here is what I could see.

Florida residents and guests staying at a Disney resort (including DVC) have one ticket price.

Everyone else gets a different ticket price. There might be a Florida resident guest rate for people staying with friends and relatives, only when accompanied by a resident.

That would encourage more onsite hotel usage, not upset the locals, and manage capacity better by influencing the supply demand curve.

 

[tjkraz]

As stated, WDW does have a capacity limiting program, I have not seen it initiated for the last several years. I do recall years ago Magic Kingdom and Hollywood Studios closing to non on property admissions during a holiday afternoon, not recently however.

Magic Kingdom closed to guests on New Year's Eve 2016. Christmas and Easter phased closures are fairly common, though the timing of Easter plays a big role. When Easter comes as late as it did this year, closures are far less common since spring break periods are more spread out. Our school district had its Spring Break March 27-31...three weeks before Easter.

When Easter is in late March, we see more of the Spring Break "perfect storm."

Attendance is down and more Fla resident offerings have come out.

Disney does not report exact attendance numbers--nor do they break out WDW and DL--but any decline is likely to be modest. Year-over-year profits of the theme parks are still rising (up 6% in first quarter of 2017 FY.) Rising prices are to thank for the profit increase, but if attendance had declined substantially, those higher ticket & food prices wouldn't have been enough to bridge the gap...and then some.

Beyond that, tiered ticket prices, new special events (art festival), expanded dates for existing events (MNSSHP, Food & Wine, etc), hotel incentives and other programs have done an effective job of spreading the crowds and negating the need for closures.

 

[bumbershoot]

Recently, we've seen an uptick of unruly behavior in the parks.

We have?


Doesn't wdw rely on tax breaks etc from Orlando and Florida? Whole tourist-based industries have been built around wdw (just further away than they were built in Anaheim) and it woukd destroy that if somehow you had to stay onsite to enter the parks. And then there goes any special consideration from the local govt!