evil or mentally ill

[Tiggeroo]

When you hear of a terrible event like just happened in Colorado do you believe the perp was evil or mentally ill. I do believe evil exists. But I also think that when I hear of most of the truly terrible things that go on there is no way a sane person would do that. I believe we do not fully understand the brain or aberrations.
That said, I believe that we should be much more diligent in removing such people from the streets. If you are in any way judged to be unsafe to others you should be placed somewhere for the safety of those around you.

 

[BonnieA]

Anyone who can do what he did is mentally ill. Mental illness can be evil. Something is wrong, their brain is not right.

 

[mombrontrent]

Anyone who can do what he did is mentally ill. Mental illness can be evil. Something is wrong, their brain is not right.

I agree completly and was going to post exactly the same thing.

 

[Tiggeroo]

This is what I think as well, but much of what I'm hearing is anger and the assumption he is evil. Yes mental illness can be evil. But for a young person to do something that so totally ends his life and puts himself in prison forever seems to me to be illness.

 

[mombrontrent]

Mental illness can make a person do evil things. Anyone capable of such a heinous act cannot be sane. Anyone who is of sound mind would not do this, therefor they are mentally ill/insane.

 

[Tiggeroo]

When I see this I feel angry and sad nobody saw this coming or was able to remove them from the street. But I also feel bad that this young person wasn't helped for themselves and I feel for their family.

 

[mombrontrent]

When I see this I feel angry and sad nobody saw this coming or was able to remove them from the street. But I also feel bad that this young person wasn't helped for themselves and I feel for their family.

I have known people who I think are very mentally ill. I actually worked with an individual in my teens who was obvioulsly schizophenic and very mentally ill. I would not be surprised to hear of this person commiting such an act. However unless these people commit a crime or harm someone little can be done. You cannot just arrest someone on an observation or persumption.

 

[Tiggeroo]

I have known people who I think are very mentally ill. I actually worked with an individual in my teens who was obvioulsly schizophenic and very mentally ill. I would not be surprised to hear of this person commiting such an act. However unless these people commit a crime or harm someone little can be done. You cannot just arrest someone on an observation or persumption.

I realize this. i don't agree with this. I believe that if they are a threat to others they should be placed somewhere to keep them safe. Frequently you will hear that many people closest to someone knew that something bad could happen but they were unable to do anything. I think it would be better to place somebody in a secure mental facility before something happens then to place them in a prison where they will get little help or support and possibly be victimized after they hurt somebody.

 

[mombrontrent]

The problem with this is that innocent harmless people could be "locked up" in a mental hospital without trial or crime. Who decided who gets "locked up" and who decides when they get let out? Who pays for the mental hospital, therapy, drugs, doctors ect.,ect.? Treatment does not come easy or cheap and America does not have the money or resources to do this.

 

[rigs32]

But who makes that determination? Have you read The Bell Jar? Seen the last season of Mad Men? It's a slippery slope when you lock people away for the what ifs. What if someone wanted to lock away your child? You'd go along with it just to be safe?

 

[cornflake]

I think this depends on peoples' definitions. I mean what're we calling 'evil' and what're we calling sane, you know?

A few people said no one who does something like this can be sane (reminiscent of that old Dennis Miller routine about insanity defenses with horrible murderers 'he killed someone, what're we looking for, red wine with fish?') but what do you mean by sane?

This guy could be completely gonzo - he could be an actively hallucinating and paranoid schizophrenic or anything else - or he could have known exactly what he was doing, be as in touch with reality as any normal person and have decided to do this. Is that sane or by deciding to do this, no matter the genesis, do you consider them not sane?

Same as the evil thing... some people just are what they are. Jeffrey Dahmer was what he was, from birth, near as anyone including him could tell. He knew what he was doing; he knew it was bad, he still felt compelled to do it - is that evil? Is it insanity based on what it was, regardless of how he was mentally in general... etc.

 

[mombrontrent]

I think this depends on peoples' definitions. I mean what're we calling 'evil' and what're we calling sane, you know?

A few people said no one who does something like this can be sane (reminiscent of that old Dennis Miller routine about insanity defenses with horrible murderers 'he killed someone, what're we looking for, red wine with fish?') but what do you mean by sane?

This guy could be completely gonzo - he could be an actively hallucinating and paranoid schizophrenic or anything else - or he could have known exactly what he was doing, be as in touch with reality as any normal person and have decided to do this. Is that sane or by deciding to do this, no matter the genesis, do you consider them not sane?

Same as the evil thing... some people just are what they are. Jeffrey Dahmer was what he was, from birth, near as anyone including him could tell. He knew what he was doing; he knew it was bad, he still felt compelled to do it - is that evil? Is it insanity based on what it was, regardless of how he was mentally in general... etc.

In cases such as this sick twisted individual I believe yes he was mentally ill or insane. He was born that way, his brain didn't function normally, had a chemical imbalance, whatever. He knew what he was doing was wrong but some faulty wiring inside his mind compelled him to act in this evil way.

 

[LisaR]

The problem with this is that innocent harmless people could be "locked up" in a mental hospital without trial or crime. Who decided who gets "locked up" and who decides when they get let out? Who pays for the mental hospital, therapy, drugs, doctors ect.,ect.? Treatment does not come easy or cheap and America does not have the money or resources to do this.

I'm not entirely sure how the system works and if it varies from state to state. In FL, John Couey, the evil piece of **** that raped and buried Jessica Lunsford alive, claimed mental illness as a defense. His IQ was 64. 70 or less is considered mentally impaired. His lawyer brought in a psychiatrist that testified that he was mentally ill and had suffered years and years of abuse as a child, hence the mental illness. He spent most of the trial coloring pictures in a coloring book. Fortunately, it didn't seem to factor into the verdict. He was found guilty and sentenced to death. Unfortunately, he died of natural causes before that could happen.

At the time, I remember reading that they factor in the persons day to day living. Are they able to function as adults should for the most part? Again, I don't know what all goes into it but this is what I remember from this particular trial.

In the case of the Colorado tragedy, this guy seemed to be stockpiling supplies for months and still functioning as an adult by attending classes.

Who knows?

 

[cornflake]

I'm not entirely sure how the system works and if it varies from state to state. In FL, John Couey, the evil piece of **** that raped and buried Jessica Lunsford alive, claimed mental illness as a defense. His IQ was 64. 70 or less is considered mentally impaired. His lawyer brought in a psychiatrist that testified that he was mentally ill and had suffered years and years of abuse as a child, hence the mental illness. He spent most of the trial coloring pictures in a coloring book. Fortunately, it didn't seem to factor into the verdict. He was found guilty and sentenced to death. Unfortunately, he died of natural causes before that could happen.

At the time, I remember reading that they factor in the persons day to day living. Are they able to function as adults should for the most part? Again, I don't know what all goes into it but this is what I remember from this particular trial.

In the case of the Colorado tragedy, this guy seemed to be stockpiling supplies for months and still functioning as an adult by attending classes.

Who knows?

Insanity defense requirements do vary by state. Most go with either M'Naghten (or a variant thereof) or the Model Penal Code; some don't have an affirmative insanity defense, some have GRI as opposed to NGRI, etc., etc. Varies.

Things like a person's daily functioning may or may not be relevant to what they're claiming, depending on the state and what defenses are available.

In general, very few people try an insanity defense and far fewer still get one. It's very, very rare. - around 1% of defendents mount an insanity defense and around 1% of THEM actually win with it.

 

[mjantz]

Sometimes all you have is a feeling & that can't be enough or we'd all be locked up because someone thinks we are weird.
Ask any teacher whose taught for more than a few years & they will probably tell you that yes, they've had that kid in their class who wasn't quite right. The one that unnerved them a bit. The kid that they truly believe they will see on the evening news in several years. Unfortunately, there is nothing you can do. You can't call CPS over a feeling.

 

[Lovin' Disney]

I do not consider the Colorado shooter insane or mentally ill. He had been planning the attack in advance, stocked up on weapons/ammo, ****y trapped his apartment, etc. That is a lot of planning. Not to mention living the college life all the way up to working toward a PhD...he is obviously intelligent to a degree.

In our local area we have a court case that is just starting up and the man has chosen mental illness as his defense. I'm not sure I agree with it. Here is the article: http://www.ashlandwi.com/news/article_0c7b6680-d088-11e1-847d-001a4bcf887a.html . Be forewarned, it is graphic.

 

[poorunfortunatesouls]

I don't believe people can be evil. I think that people do evil things.

 

[AverageDiser]

Is someone sociopathic mentally ill? Technically, yes. I do think he's a sociopath, I don't know how someone could do something like this and not be. It has nothing to do with lack of intelligence in this case. I would be shocked if he doesn't receive the death penalty. I think a lot of people associate mental illness with "they didn't know what they were doing". That's obviously not the case here. I feel for his family...I do not feel sorry for him.

 

[cornflake]

I do not consider the Colorado shooter insane or mentally ill. He had been planning the attack in advance, stocked up on weapons/ammo, ****y trapped his apartment, etc. That is a lot of planning. Not to mention living the college life all the way up to working toward a PhD...he is obviously intelligent to a degree.

In our local area we have a court case that is just starting up and the man has chosen mental illness as his defense. I'm not sure I agree with it. Here is the article: http://www.ashlandwi.com/news/article_0c7b6680-d088-11e1-847d-001a4bcf887a.html . Be forewarned, it is graphic.

Being intelligent or being able to plan and execute a plan doesn't have anything to do with mental illness or sanity.

We have no idea what the deal was here - he could have been perfectly cognizant of what he was doing, that it was wrong, and chosen to do it for whatever reason. He could be completely delusional and have planned and carried it out not in touch with reality. He could be psychopathic; he could have been having paranoid hallucinations, no one knows, at this point, as far as we know, as he's apparently not talking.

That link just leads to a headline, just btw. Based on the headline I found a wire story but it's not exactly detailed. What don't you agree with? There's not much info in the story.

 

[happygirl]

I believe this man snapped, school overload, not being able to find a job something just caused this kids, just to lose it.