Every Wish That We Put Into Motion.... (comments welcome!)

A bit late to the creeper topic, and I agree with others on changing your routine if you can, but my additional advice is to actively be in a phone call with your DH or someone else for those few minutes that you feel weary. I had a situation a year or so ago that turned into a total non event, but I didn't know at the time. I called my partner and told him that we were talking on the phone for a bit in case of emergency. It probably spooked him a bit, but I was home a short while after and explained the situation.
 
Weekly wrap up:

The goal is to run 4-5x a week, and I'm still trying to get to that number, but I'm getting closer! Not-on-the-normal-schedule things that happened this week include DS2 going to XC team camp for 4 days, DS3 going to grandma/grandpa's for 4 days, and DD going to grandma/grandpa's for 1 day. I had a whole day and night with no kids (except for DS1, but he's 18 and completely self-sufficient, so he doesn't count) and it was....nice. Except I took a late nap and then was up until 2am because I couldn't fall asleep.

Weirdness that I'm trouble-shooting: my legs. Specifically my lower legs (below the knee) have been really, really achy. They woke me up a few times this week, and I'm not sure what I should be doing about it. I've checked my shoe mileage and retired a pair (2 weeks ago), I've run in shoes that have <100mi, and I've run on shoes that have ~250mi. Nothing seems to matter. My left hip has also been annoyed but I think that was from sleeping in a weird position or our mattress (which is only 3 years old!) needs replaced already.

Anyhow, the running.

Monday: 1hr run (4.33mi 13:51avg pace.) I ran I route I haven't run in over a year because it has a big/long hill where I'm running uphill for basically a mile. Did I run that mile? No. Did I switch to a Pitbull playlist and powerwalk it at 15:30 pace? Yes I did. I also got left a LOT later than I should have, and it was definitely in the 80s during this run.

Wednesday: 45min run (3.19mi, 14:07avg pace) with dog. Poor guy got really cooped up this week since I was driving kids somewhere almost every day. I switch him from the shorter 4-6ft bungee leash to one that is 9-12 ft and a lot more heavy-duty and the lower angle from his harness to my running belt felt a lot better. The downside is that if he runs next to me I tend to get a little tangled up in the leash, and I have a lot more to reel in when a car goes by.

Friday: 70min run (5mi, 13:52avg pace.) Longest run in awhile, and I could definitely feel that it's been 6 months since I pushed things this far/long. I started with 45/30 intervals just to see how it felt and what my HR would do. The first mile was OK but by the time I got to my turnaround point I decided that I should switch it back to 30/30 or I was going to fade badly and have my HR get way too high. I won't sugar coat it: this run took more effort than I was expecting, but it also reinforced the fact that I need to be doing more to get my weekly run total up to 4+ and not just sit at 3. And also that I need to start putting longer runs into the schedule. So I think the goal will be to bump up the long run by a mile ever week or every other week depending on the family schedule. Every other week gets me to 13 by mid-November which is when things will really start in earnest with refereeing, so I think that's a good rough outline for those.
 

We did back to school shopping yesterday and I bought 2 pairs of "swishy" shorts. They passed the changing room, high knees, run-in-place test, so now we'll see how they hold up on a real run. The only downside is there are no pockets except for one teeny tiny one that my car key fob probably wouldn't even fit inside in one of them.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ .______

On a different note, DH said "we're doing it" and now we are going down to MW on Monday afternoon instead of Tuesday morning and this has opened up a huuuuge puzzle for me to solve with our DVC points. (And also requires that BIL/SIL commit to a flight date.) Thoughts/ideas are welcome if I'm not approaching this correctly. There are a lot of "but if" situations. Right now I have 14 points that I can borrow to complete our stay. I haven't bought any OTU points. I haven't done any transfers. I am planning on asking if we can avoid moving rooms (since we are going from a studio to a 2br lock-off, and then back to a studio) but I'm not holding my breath.

Currently booked at SSR for Tuesday-Thursday (7th-9th) in a studio. Then we are booked for Thursday-Monday (9th-13th) in a 2br lock-off. I don't have anything booked for the night of the 13th right now (lots of DVC availability though.) I need to book something on both of the Mondays (6th and the 13th.)

I can book the first Monday (6th) right now in the same category we already have booked. It's been available for months. This feels like a no-brainer. I should book it so we can just extend our stay there and have one less room/resort move to make. Alternatively, OKW has rooms available and is less points (10 instead of 13) but 3 points doesn't do much, obviously. That would leave me with 1 point and needing to book the 13th still.

What-if 1:
If BIL/SIL decide to come down on Friday morning because of the limitations of after-6pm-flights on Thursday, I would want to change the stay on the 9th to either a studio (ideal situation) or a 1br to free up points. I would have to stalk/waitlist the studio, but the 1br is showing availability (and has for awhile.) They say they are definitely coming down on Thursday. So that's settled. Probably.


What-if 2:
The other variable point with this is that BIL/SIL are planning on going home on Sunday, but I have booked our 2br through Monday so that we aren't changing resorts on marathon day. Been there, done that, don't care to repeat it. But we could change to a different room that. I just really feel like the negatives outweigh the positives since I won't finish up until after 12, and DH would have to do all of the packing up on his own, and I wouldn't have a shower and bed to collapse into immediately upon returning to a resort.


And then I have the one night to figure out on the 13th-14th. I don't care where we stay, but we may or may not have a rental car, and dealing with trying to have bell services move our luggage (do they still do that??) the day before our flight seems like it could be a little dicey. All Stars are $117 + tax, which is about $100 less than buying enough OTU points, and we would likely have to move rooms anyway that day, so maybe?? Staying at SSR on rented points seems like the easiest thing to do.

Am I missing any other ways I can manipulate this to serve our needs, and free up about 10 points?
 
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We did back to school shopping yesterday and I bought 2 pairs of "swishy" shorts. They passed the changing room, high knees, run-in-place test, so now we'll see how they hold up on a real run. The only downside is there are no pockets except for one teeny tiny one that my car key fob probably wouldn't even fit inside in one of them.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ .______

On a different note, DH said "we're doing it" and now we are going down to MW on Monday afternoon instead of Tuesday morning and this has opened up a huuuuge puzzle for me to solve with our DVC points. (And also requires that BIL/SIL commit to a flight date.) Thoughts/ideas are welcome if I'm not approaching this correctly. There are a lot of "but if" situations. Right now I have 14 points that I can borrow to complete our stay. I haven't bought any OTU points. I haven't done any transfers. I am planning on asking if we can avoid moving rooms (since we are going from a studio to a 2br lock-off, and then back to a studio) but I'm not holding my breath.

Currently booked at SSR for Tuesday-Thursday (7th-9th) in a studio. Then we are booked for Thursday-Monday (9th-13th) in a 2br lock-off. I don't have anything booked for the night of the 13th right now (lots of DVC availability though.) I need to book something on both of the Mondays (6th and the 13th.)

I can book the first Monday (6th) right now in the same category we already have booked. It's been available for months. This feels like a no-brainer. I should book it so we can just extend our stay there and have one less room/resort move to make. Alternatively, OKW has rooms available and is less points (10 instead of 13) but 3 points doesn't do much, obviously. That would leave me with 1 point and needing to book the 13th still.

What-if 1:
If BIL/SIL decide to come down on Friday morning because of the limitations of after-6pm-flights on Thursday, I would want to change the stay on the 9th to either a studio (ideal situation) or a 1br to free up points. I would have to stalk/waitlist the studio, but the 1br is showing availability (and has for awhile.)


What-if 2:
The other variable point with this is that BIL/SIL are planning on going home on Sunday, but I have booked our 2br through Monday so that we aren't changing resorts on marathon day. Been there, done that, don't care to repeat it. But we could change to a different room that. I just really feel like the negatives outweigh the positives since I won't finish up until after 12, and DH would have to do all of the packing up on his own, and I wouldn't have a shower and bed to collapse into immediately upon returning to a resort.


And then I have the one night to figure out on the 13th-14th. I don't care where we stay, but we may or may not have a rental car, and dealing with trying to have bell services move our luggage (do they still do that??) the day before our flight seems like it could be a little dicey. All Stars are $117 + tax, which is about $100 less than buying enough OTU points, and we would likely have to move rooms anyway that day, so maybe?? Staying at SSR on rented points seems like the easiest thing to do.

Am I missing any other ways I can manipulate this to serve our needs, and free up about 10 points?

I've had good luck not having to move rooms in this situation when I've had DVC put a note on the room AND requested at the desk at check-in. However, I'm not sure I'd risk moving on marathon day. Have you checked moving the whole stay to OKW? Does that free up enough points (or make the needed OTU points cheap enough) to make sense?
 
I've had good luck not having to move rooms in this situation when I've had DVC put a note on the room AND requested at the desk at check-in. However, I'm not sure I'd risk moving on marathon day. Have you checked moving the whole stay to OKW? Does that free up enough points (or make the needed OTU points cheap enough) to make sense?
I reeeeeeeally don't want to move on marathon day. It's a last-ditch kind of thing, which makes it an option, but like a "plan z" option. All of the resorts are booked for Thursday-Sunday in studios and 2brs, which is kind of bonkers, but also unsurprising. I just made a big spreadsheet with all of the flights for Thursday night from 3 airports and sent it to BIL and DH is going to call him today and make it clear that we need to know what day they're coming down on.
 
We did back to school shopping yesterday and I bought 2 pairs of "swishy" shorts. They passed the changing room, high knees, run-in-place test, so now we'll see how they hold up on a real run. The only downside is there are no pockets except for one teeny tiny one that my car key fob probably wouldn't even fit inside in one of them.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ .______

On a different note, DH said "we're doing it" and now we are going down to MW on Monday afternoon instead of Tuesday morning and this has opened up a huuuuge puzzle for me to solve with our DVC points. (And also requires that BIL/SIL commit to a flight date.) Thoughts/ideas are welcome if I'm not approaching this correctly. There are a lot of "but if" situations. Right now I have 14 points that I can borrow to complete our stay. I haven't bought any OTU points. I haven't done any transfers. I am planning on asking if we can avoid moving rooms (since we are going from a studio to a 2br lock-off, and then back to a studio) but I'm not holding my breath.

Currently booked at SSR for Tuesday-Thursday (7th-9th) in a studio. Then we are booked for Thursday-Monday (9th-13th) in a 2br lock-off. I don't have anything booked for the night of the 13th right now (lots of DVC availability though.) I need to book something on both of the Mondays (6th and the 13th.)

I can book the first Monday (6th) right now in the same category we already have booked. It's been available for months. This feels like a no-brainer. I should book it so we can just extend our stay there and have one less room/resort move to make. Alternatively, OKW has rooms available and is less points (10 instead of 13) but 3 points doesn't do much, obviously. That would leave me with 1 point and needing to book the 13th still.

What-if 1:
If BIL/SIL decide to come down on Friday morning because of the limitations of after-6pm-flights on Thursday, I would want to change the stay on the 9th to either a studio (ideal situation) or a 1br to free up points. I would have to stalk/waitlist the studio, but the 1br is showing availability (and has for awhile.)


What-if 2:
The other variable point with this is that BIL/SIL are planning on going home on Sunday, but I have booked our 2br through Monday so that we aren't changing resorts on marathon day. Been there, done that, don't care to repeat it. But we could change to a different room that. I just really feel like the negatives outweigh the positives since I won't finish up until after 12, and DH would have to do all of the packing up on his own, and I wouldn't have a shower and bed to collapse into immediately upon returning to a resort.


And then I have the one night to figure out on the 13th-14th. I don't care where we stay, but we may or may not have a rental car, and dealing with trying to have bell services move our luggage (do they still do that??) the day before our flight seems like it could be a little dicey. All Stars are $117 + tax, which is about $100 less than buying enough OTU points, and we would likely have to move rooms anyway that day, so maybe?? Staying at SSR on rented points seems like the easiest thing to do.

Am I missing any other ways I can manipulate this to serve our needs, and free up about 10 points?
I think in your situation, I'd book the 6th at SSR since I personally don't think 3pts is worth adding another move to a split stay. If you're trying to save some points, you can waitlist the whole stay at OKW and stalk it in case something comes up.

I would also give your BIL/SIL a hard deadline to figure out when they're coming, and I would not be very generous with the time. They need to decide on something ASAP. I'd then book the 1 bedroom for that night, setup a waitlist, and stalk the site to hopefully get the studio.

I think staying in the 2 bedroom until Monday is a good idea. You don't want to be moving rooms and potentially being homeless after running the marathon.

For the last night, I would probably book All Stars, and if you manage to get the studio for the Thursday, I'd switch that to a DVC resort instead.
 
Weekly wrap-up:

Running in something other than leggings or bike shorts is weird. I don't think the nike shorts rode up, but wow was that a different sensation! Also, 4 days this week! WOO! Next week might not be as great because we have lots going on.

Sunday: 45min easy. With dog. Easy is a misnomer here. Puppy was raring to go, and was dragging me most of the way. This makes my back and hips sore. It also messes with one of my shins because I'm "braking" to keep him from all out sprinting. Saw a weird caterpiller in the road; it was big like a tomato hornworm (about the size of my index finger) but it was dark red/purple.

Monday: 35min. I did an avondale-style hill run today. DS3 went with me and we ran about a half mile warm-up and then went down the big hill on our road. Ran up for 30sec, walked back down for 30sec until we got back to the top (looks like 8 or 9 interval reps.) Then a cooldown long enough to get me to 35min. I definitely felt this in my quads the next day. Not enough to be like 'oooh, that was a bad idea' but enough that I could tell it wasn't a normal run.

Wednesday: 60 min. Split run with and without the puppy. The goal was to get an hour in, but the puppy can't handle that much, so I did 27min with the puppy and then 33min on my own, because once again, he was trying to drag me down the road. It was a cooler week as far as temperatures, but trying to hold the pup back at the beginning spiked my HR enough that it affected things after I dropped him off at the house.

This is also the day that I went through all of the flights from 3 airports to Orlando for BIL/SIL's dates, with departure times that fit their constraints, and how many/how long of connections there were. And sent it to them. By Wednesday night they had gotten back to us on their for-sure day for coming down (Thursday) and asked some questions about things. I factored in things like cost of gas for driving to/from the further airports, and added in the cost of parking. AND, United added an evening flight from our small local airport that fits their needs. And the price has dropped into the low-$300s per person, so I'm hoping they have finally decided to book something!

Friday: 90min easy. DS2 had the day off work, so as soon as he got home from XC practice I was out the door. DS3 decided to tag along with me again (I think he's trying to get in shape for soccer season) and the goal was 90min. He. Talked. The. Whole. Time. And asked a ton of questions. I then tried to answer them, which led to more walk breaks because my HR kept trying to creep into the 160s. It also ended up being a lot warmer than I was expecting. I was ready to call it quits at an hour, but of course we were still 2+mi from home, so we had a lesson in mental strength and pushing even when you're tired and your brain starts trying to lie to get you to stop.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
In MW resort-stay news, I booked the studio for the night at the beginning of our trip (will combine with our other stay so we don't have to move an extra time) and then lucked out when I spotted a night at BWV. So now we are at SSR for a week, and then staying 1 night at BW, which is another new resort for us! We have a garden/pool view, but I waitlisted a boardwalk view. DH and I talked about park days (how many, and when) and got irritated with how Disney forces you to use the days, and also got a little bit of sticker shock from the pricing. We have been assuming that BIL/SIL will want to do one park day, but I'm not sure which one makes the most sense: on Friday SIL has to go to the expo and we both are running the HM the next day, but if we go on Saturday we won't get into a park until probably 1030 at the earliest, and I won't want to do much because of running the full the next day. We want to do a park day on the Monday after the races (MK medal pics and then DATW?) and a 2-day ticket is really limiting with the number of days that it has to be used within.
 
This is also the day that I went through all of the flights from 3 airports to Orlando for BIL/SIL's dates, with departure times that fit their constraints, and how many/how long of connections there were. And sent it to them. By Wednesday night they had gotten back to us on their for-sure day for coming down (Thursday) and asked some questions about things. I factored in things like cost of gas for driving to/from the further airports, and added in the cost of parking. AND, United added an evening flight from our small local airport that fits their needs. And the price has dropped into the low-$300s per person, so I'm hoping they have finally decided to book something!
You are seriously a saint. I really hope they've finally made up their mind and booked their flight!

In MW resort-stay news, I booked the studio for the night at the beginning of our trip (will combine with our other stay so we don't have to move an extra time) and then lucked out when I spotted a night at BWV. So now we are at SSR for a week, and then staying 1 night at BW, which is another new resort for us! We have a garden/pool view, but I waitlisted a boardwalk view. DH and I talked about park days (how many, and when) and got irritated with how Disney forces you to use the days, and also got a little bit of sticker shock from the pricing. We have been assuming that BIL/SIL will want to do one park day, but I'm not sure which one makes the most sense: on Friday SIL has to go to the expo and we both are running the HM the next day, but if we go on Saturday we won't get into a park until probably 1030 at the earliest, and I won't want to do much because of running the full the next day. We want to do a park day on the Monday after the races (MK medal pics and then DATW?) and a 2-day ticket is really limiting with the number of days that it has to be used within.
I love BWV! We're staying there for Wine and Dine in a 2 bedroom and I can't wait.
We have APs, so I haven't looked at ticket prices in a while. That was until I bought my parents tickets for W&D. Between how outrageous the tickets are, and the CAD exchange, I've tried to not think about how much we just paid for 4 day ticket.
I feel you on the random rule Disney has setup for ticket usage, especially with a longer trip like yours.
 
Reality-check, and possible race schedule planning time! Tagging people who I know do ultras/trail running for thoughts, but anyone is free to chime in. @DopeyBadger @avondale @camaker

I thought I needed to plan this for 2026 (after DS2 has graduated since we have a big XC meet to work on the Saturday), but looking at the registration, I could do the race on Sunday. This race is semi-local to me, and we have relatives who live near the race start, so we could park our camper in their yard/driveway the night before to cut down on travel the morning-of if needed

I'm looking at a trail 50k. A real trail. Link to course maps, which have an elevation profile. The 50k is 3/4 of the way down.

I have never run a true trail race. I've run a completely flat HM on a 2-track/gravel rail-trail bed.

The race is in the end of August, and for us that usually means upper 50s/low 60s at race start and the daytime highs can be anywhere from low 70s to high 80s.

All of the distances are $101, and you get a LOT of swag.

From the website:

"50K Ultra Marathon | Elevation Gain: 4,845 ft

The 50k is the newest addition to the North Country Trail Run family of races. You will have 11 aid stations fully stocked to help assist you through the race. Make sure you to thank the volunteers as you approach and depart. The course starts at the same locations as the other races and after completing the 3 mile loop. The trail will bring you back to the start/finish area where you will find your first aid station. You will continue on a single track trail, where you will get a taste of the course early on, running rolling hills. Once you get past the 4 mile marker you will make your first big climb, don’t worry if you have to hike this hill, you will not be alone. After this you will find a few hills and soon you will be lulled into somewhat of a flat course, but don’t get comfortable. Between miles 16 and 17 you will exit the Marathon/50 mile course and venture where no other North Country runner in any of the other distance have ever run. Around mile 20 you will do a quick out and back and then around mile 22 you will rejoin the Marathon/50 mile course. You will find a lot of switchbacks with steep downhills in these last sections of the course, so don’t be surprised if your quads are screaming at you. As you ascend the upper part of the overlook hill around mile 30.5, make sure you take a quick peak of the beautiful view. You will now start your final descent to the finish line, as you make your way out of the forest the finish line will be in sight. Make sure you are looking good and ready for all the well-wishers. Congratulations on your finish, you have earned it! Relax and Enjoy with your North Country Trail Run friends and family."

Ahem. 4,845ft of elevation gain. :scared:

There is a 9hr time limit. That means a 17:25 avg pace at the absolute slowest. I'm doing my 'all easy running' training at about 14:00 pace right now, and I'm definitely not in shape, so theoretically that should get better.

Pacers/Buddy Runners are allowed, free of charge.
"If you need that extra help to get to the finish line with a buddy or family member encouraging you on and pacing you for either the 50 Miler or 50 K this year make sure you bring them along. In the past, we have had the policy that they needed to begin with you at the aid station following the start/finish area for the second loop. This year, we have made the adjustment that they can now start at the start of the second loop at Aid Station Sandpiper or any aid station along the second loop other than Aid Station Primitive (there is no direct access for spectators or pacers). If you don’t know where those aid stations are along the course, head over to our website and you’ll see course maps with all the aid stations. We cannot guarantee that our Aid Station Supply Team will take your pacers back to the start/finish area from the aid station if they don’t pace you to the end of the race, but we’ll try our best throughout the day. We ask that you plan on your pacers returning to the original destination/vehicle, but when we can help, we will. Pacers will be required to check in at the aid station that they start from, there is no charge to have a pacer out there with you, and all pacers are welcome to what foods and hydration we offer at the aid stations."


Is this a terrible idea?
I'm running Dopey in January, and I can build in other races to (ideally) keep me on-track with training. There aren't really any single-track trails with elevation near me, but I do have a big hill on my road that I could use for hill work. There's a trail run in the spring that could be an option (@avondale ran this one in Traverse City, I think it has a bit tighter of a pace requirement.) Bayshore Marathon/HM or Charlevoix Marathon/HM depending on the calendar, and a July HM (probably not a great idea at that point from an injury-risk standpoint) are all very local to me and wouldn't require a long drive or overnight stay at a hotel. We are planning on taking a year/season off from rundisney after the upcoming MW, so I feel like it might be nice to leverage my Dopey training into a new challenge and hopefully not end up taking a year and a half off from running before we go back.




What am I not considering (aside from training commitments)?
What would the time commitment for training look like for something like this? I don't need the deep and wide, but more like a broad-strokes/cliffnotes idea if this is reasonable.


The other less exciting option is to do the HM in 2025, and the 50k in 2026. But that's too long of a timeline, and where's the fun in that?
 
4,845ft of elevation gain. :scared:

So that works out to 156 ft/mile as an average.

8hr finisher with GAP - https://www.strava.com/activities/12242661024
5.5hr finisher with GAP - https://www.strava.com/activities/12241195126/overview

https://www.strava.com/activities/12241073419
https://www.strava.com/activities/12240872108
https://www.strava.com/activities/12241460403
https://www.strava.com/activities/12240749723
https://www.strava.com/activities/12242510493

The consensus from recording devices (which don't have to be accurate) is that the elevation is more in the 2500 ft range (80 ft/mile) and GAP seems to be about 40/sec mile from flat. So elevation is less a concern, and possibly the technical aspect of the course instead?

There is a 9hr time limit. That means a 17:25 avg pace at the absolute slowest. I'm doing my 'all easy running' training at about 14:00 pace right now, and I'm definitely not in shape, so theoretically that should get better.

The 5.5 hr finisher is a 1:36 HM/3:35 M (7:19/8:12) and he did the 50k at 10:54 pace (about 30-60 sec slower than WU pace).
Toni is a BQ runner at 1:35 HM/3:13 M and she did the 50k at 12:16 pace
Dayton is a 2:05 HM/5:22 M and he did the 50k at 12:23 pace
Robert is a 1:40 HM/4:08 M and he did the 50k at 11:51 pace
Rachel is a 1:36 HM/4:03 M and she did the 50k at 11:31 pace

So most of them are about 2.5 min/mile slower than their M PRs. So a 17:25 min/mile cutoff would mean a minimum of a 15 min/mile M pace PR (6.5 hr marathon runner).

but I do have a big hill on my road that I could use for hill work.

Based on Eric's Strava data, there are a few challenging hills at 4, 5, 8, 13/14, 21, 25-31. So the difficulty of the course is definitely backloaded. It appears to be a steady diet of ups and downs.

What am I not considering (aside from training commitments)?
What would the time commitment for training look like for something like this? I don't need the deep and wide, but more like a broad-strokes/cliffnotes idea if this is reasonable.

Similar training load to a marathon or Dopey. You don't need to do anything special volume wise. Given the elevation, I would consider doing some weekly or biweekly treadmill walks where you set the incline at 8-10% if you don't have anything like that around you to train on. There are more than one occasion of 10% grades for nearly a half mile, and a few in the 5% range for about a mile.
 
I have done the North Country 13.1 (in 2019) and I'm also considering the 50K for next year (it will be my first 50K). I consider myself a road runner primarily that sometimes dabbles in trail running. Here are my thoughts:

1) Your pace on trails is going to be 2-4 minutes slower per mile than your normal road pace.
2) The hills are no joke. Most of them aren't too daunting, but there are a couple doozies that are steep and never ending.
3) I would advise spending at least one training day a week on trails, so you can practice running trails, because it is different and you use different muscles. Maybe sign up for the TC trail 10K and see how you like it?
4) You'll probably want to buy trail shoes. You could maybe getaway with road shoes at NC if the trails and weather is dry, but I don't think I'd risk it.

My own hesitation for attempting the 50K is because I haven't spent much time on trails in the last 2 years and I feel I need more practice and consistency on trails to feel confident. I'm also hesitant because I remember what a beast the half was, it felt more like a marathon, and that was even with perfect weather conditions (low 60's, low humidity).

Overall, it's a great race. The swag is awesome and the medal is so fantastically huge!! I hope you run at least one of the distances in the next 2 years, because it is definitely a neat experience.

I'll let you know if I decide to signup next year. :teeth:
 
So that works out to 156 ft/mile as an average.

8hr finisher with GAP - https://www.strava.com/activities/12242661024
5.5hr finisher with GAP - https://www.strava.com/activities/12241195126/overview

https://www.strava.com/activities/12241073419
https://www.strava.com/activities/12240872108
https://www.strava.com/activities/12241460403
https://www.strava.com/activities/12240749723
https://www.strava.com/activities/12242510493

The consensus from recording devices (which don't have to be accurate) is that the elevation is more in the 2500 ft range (80 ft/mile) and GAP seems to be about 40/sec mile from flat. So elevation is less a concern, and possibly the technical aspect of the course instead?



The 5.5 hr finisher is a 1:36 HM/3:35 M (7:19/8:12) and he did the 50k at 10:54 pace (about 30-60 sec slower than WU pace).
Toni is a BQ runner at 1:35 HM/3:13 M and she did the 50k at 12:16 pace
Dayton is a 2:05 HM/5:22 M and he did the 50k at 12:23 pace
Robert is a 1:40 HM/4:08 M and he did the 50k at 11:51 pace
Rachel is a 1:36 HM/4:03 M and she did the 50k at 11:31 pace

So most of them are about 2.5 min/mile slower than their M PRs. So a 17:25 min/mile cutoff would mean a minimum of a 15 min/mile M pace PR (6.5 hr marathon runner).



Based on Eric's Strava data, there are a few challenging hills at 4, 5, 8, 13/14, 21, 25-31. So the difficulty of the course is definitely backloaded. It appears to be a steady diet of ups and downs.



Similar training load to a marathon or Dopey. You don't need to do anything special volume wise. Given the elevation, I would consider doing some weekly or biweekly treadmill walks where you set the incline at 8-10% if you don't have anything like that around you to train on. There are more than one occasion of 10% grades for nearly a half mile, and a few in the 5% range for about a mile.
I did peek at strava briefly this morning (we are trying to get packed for camping today) and saw the discrepancy in elevation gain. But yeah. Hilly at the front, flatter (comparatively) in the middle, and then hella hilly at the end. I have no idea how technical the course is, but I could always make a couple of drives out there to check out portions of it for training (if I could get someone to go with me.) The hill on my road is a 7%ish grade (100ft over about 1/4mi) and I could probably find a steeper and longer hill without too much trouble. The only issue would be how busy the road is and how wide the shoulder is.
I have done the North Country 13.1 (in 2019) and I'm also considering the 50K for next year (it will be my first 50K). I consider myself a road runner primarily that sometimes dabbles in trail running. Here are my thoughts:

1) Your pace on trails is going to be 2-4 minutes slower per mile than your normal road pace.
2) The hills are no joke. Most of them aren't too daunting, but there are a couple doozies that are steep and never ending.
3) I would advise spending at least one training day a week on trails, so you can practice running trails, because it is different and you use different muscles. Maybe sign up for the TC trail 10K and see how you like it?
4) You'll probably want to buy trail shoes. You could maybe getaway with road shoes at NC if the trails and weather is dry, but I don't think I'd risk it.
AAAH! I knew someone in here had done it, or been there before. THANK YOU for the information. Do you think gravel/seasonal roads would be adequate as a replacement for trail running? There are loads of those around me, although the way the crazy SxS drivers use them makes me nervous.

My own hesitation for attempting the 50K is because I haven't spent much time on trails in the last 2 years and I feel I need more practice and consistency on trails to feel confident. I'm also hesitant because I remember what a beast the half was, it felt more like a marathon, and that was even with perfect weather conditions (low 60's, low humidity).

Overall, it's a great race. The swag is awesome and the medal is so fantastically huge!! I hope you run at least one of the distances in the next 2 years, because it is definitely a neat experience.

I'll let you know if I decide to signup next year. :teeth:
Well if you sign up and wanna go slow and take lots of walk breaks, HMU because I'd totally be a run-buddy. 😉
 
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Do you think gravel/seasonal roads would be adequate as a replacement for trail running?
I think it's probably a decent substitute, but I would still recommend getting some single track experience. It's the rocks and roots that you need to get used to navigating. Take it from me, I fell a lot when I first started trail running!! I tend to not pick up my feet enough when I get tired and that leads to problems. I got pretty good at the tuck & roll. :rotfl:

Well if you sign up and wanna go slow and take lots of walk breaks, HMU because I'd totally be a run-buddy.
Sounds good! :thumbsup2 I can't remember how fast the 50K sells out, but I want to say it's nowhere near as fast as the half. I'd like to see how the NYC marathon goes for me before I commit, so hoping I've got some time to decide.
 
So theoretically, if I count backwards from race day, April 6th would be 20wks out. And if I took off 1 week after Dopey (Jan 19th) I would have time to do 10 weeks (up to 12 weeks if I shortened a 50k training plan to 18 weeks) of some other sort of training. Probably something speed focused? Is 10-12wks long enough to get any real benefits out of that?

Or would it be more appropriate to look at something like the 26wk Higdon 50k plan (dialed down since doing a "2hr race pace run" or "10mi on Friday and 20mi on Saturday" makes me want to say, "no thanks, nevermind" about the whole thing.) OMG I should not have looked at that plan because I cannot fathom doing that kind of mileage during the summer. His plan for me would be like 50 min run, 2 hour run, 50 min run. Rest. 2hr run, 2-5hr run (some weeks are time and some weeks are miles that I know at my paces would take 5+ hours.) I would be living on my treadmill because it's the only way we could make it work and not be completely tied to the house/not having plans for all of July and August. And even then it would be a stretch. That plan is not for this member of Team Not-So-Fast.
 
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Weekly wrap-up. All of the emotions happened this week.

Monday: 45min easy. I don't remember anything about this run. I don't even remember doing it. Apparently I went out at like 8pm, probably because last week was hot?

Tuesday and Wednesday: off. We had school open-house, packing for a camping trip, and a lot of last-minute things to do for DS1 to get ready for move-in day at college.

Thursday: Family camping in the UP. This is the 2nd time our XC team has made this trip, and it's pretty fun to get most of the families and most of the runners all together in a big group. We book sites near each other in Van Riper State Park, which is about 45min west of Marquette. The campground has sites with electric (fill holding tanks at the entrance for water) and a nice modern bathroom facility in the middle. The sites aren't as tiny as they are at some state campgrounds, and there is also a great playground, a beach, and several hiking trails just across the road. It takes about 6hrs to get there from our house, and we wanted to include enough time for a breakfast stop, gas, slow traffic, and lunch before DS2 did the course walk-through for the meet we were traveling for. Our initial plan for this trip was to take the camper up on Wednesday afternoon/evening and stay through Sunday afternoon. So we booked a campsite for that plan. And then about 3 weeks later we found out that this was the same weekend as DS1's move-in day for college dorms. I went back and looked at the booking site again, because we know there are a few cabins AT the campground; of course those were all booked, but just a mile down the road was a rustic cabin (no water/electricity) for less total cost than 1 night in a hotel room! We decided to book that instead since pulling the camper that far for a 48hr stay seemed a bit silly. Since we would lose the price for the camper site, we kept it in case they needed a place to put additional tents or for cooking/cornhole boards/anything else extra space might be needed for. We ended up being thankful for the cabin because it did rain pretty heavily the first night, so we stayed dry even though I was basically unable to sleep for most of the night for whatever reason.

So on Thursday morning we were up and driving at 7:30am. We ate lunch in Marquette and then met the rest of his team and coaches at Presque Isle (Black Rocks) park to do the course walk-through. I walked the course as my workout for the day and let me just say: that courses is a doozey. Then it was off to the campground to help set up tents that other runners were borrowing from us, and have dinner.

Friday: a super-early wake-up so we could be driving to the meet by 7:15am. I had pre-made breakfast burritos at home, so we just tossed those on a grill to warm up. DS2 ran OK. He has what we think is a big mental problem in races because he goes out and crushes his workouts at practice and those times/paces indicate that he could be running a full minute faster than he is (like he "should" be running low 17s and not low/mid 18s.) But for whatever reason that's not happening. After the meet we did a team/family picnic and then checked out the Black Rocks for a little bit before we left to head back to the cabin for a very much needed nap. After a few hours of sleep we hiked the 2.5mi trail behind the campground area we stayed at. The trail was pretty good, and they had recently come in and repaired or installed some stairs for one portion. That night we had some faint northern lights appear (I would have stayed on the beach for a few hours in the the early morning to watch them, because it looks like they peaked at about 2am from other pics I saw) and lots of laughs and fun with the other parents and the kids.

Saturday: the kids did their long run (7 to 12mi depending on the group) and then we did a massive group breakfast where everyone brought their breakfast stuff to one campsite and we had 1 full-size blackstone grill, 3 small ones, and an electric frying pan going. No lie, they cooked 10# of bacon and probably that much sausage as well. We had scrambled eggs, hashbrowns, pancakes, french toast, 3 kinds of berries, toast, croissants, coffee, juice; really the whole thing was a bit ridiculous and completely awesome. And then we packed up our personal stuff and headed out for our 6hr drive home. We stopped in Mackinaw City for fudge (JoAnn's is the best, in case you were wondering) and got home in time to help DS1 get the remainder of his stuff into the car and get sort-of a good night's sleep.

Sunday: Up and on the road by 6am. Yes. After driving home from the mid/western part of the UP, we were back in the car to drive down to the greater Detroit area. This is our oldest kiddo, so I had all of the mom-emotions yesterday. Moving DS1 into his dorm was quick and easy. His roommates seem nice, based on a brief first-impression. We got lunch, picked up a few additional things, and then headed back home. (In case you weren't keeping track, that was 7 hours in the car on Thursday, 2 hours in the car Friday, 7 hours in the car Saturday, and 8 hours in the car on Sunday.)



School starts tomorrow, and we have a few things going on with sports and DH refereeing football. DD starts pre-school next week and I'll be working pie shifts on Mondays and Wednesdays while she is in school until they close down for the season....usually late October. I'm planning on taking my running stuff with me in the car in case I get done with pies before DD needs picked up and have time to fit a run in. Otherwise, I'm going to have to figure out how to motivate to get on the treadmill in the morning before taking her to school/going to work because we have a soccer game or XC meet most weeknights.
 
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Above: The Mackinac Bridge connecting the upper and lower peninsulas, and the Ore Docks in Marquette

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I jumped this little 8pt up on the trail while I walked the XC course!


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One of the views the kids run past on the XC course

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Our little cabin for a few nights. It had 3 sets of bunk beds, a wood-stove (firewood stocked seasonally for it), and a vault toilet about 15 yards from the building.

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View from one of the scenic overlooks on the hiking trails behind the cabin.

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Northern lights (yes, that's the Big Dipper/Ursa Major!) from the beach at the main campground. DH has a better pic on his phone.

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Kids and adults jumping off the cliffs at the Black Rocks. This is Lake Superior, and that water is COLD. This is a (generally) protected inlet that doesn't get much under current and rarely has waves. The water is at least 15ft deep out where they jump (it's probably about a 12-15ft drop) and then a 30yard swim back in to where they can climb back up near shore to go back out. Black Rocks is super cool, and is well worth a few hours, if not a whole day, for anyone ever visiting the UP/Marquette area.
 
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Congrats on successfully moving your son into college. I am in the minority of parents who were totally okay when their kids went off to school. DD went first, but she had been going away from home on her own since she was 7 (GS camp, music camp, etc). She went east coast, DS went west coast.

Some beautiful scenery in the UP. Will have to do a trip up there again at some point.
 














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