Every Wish That We Put Into Motion.... (comments welcome!)

[Herding_Cats]

Well the conundrum becomes, IF marathon weekend DOES happen in-person (and I somehow get a bib), I'd want to have a PoT to submit. I'm not sure my May race is chipped, but I KNOW that the October one is (assuming they don't fully virtualize that one again.) And if I want to have a PoT to submit, do I stick with the half in October and really "go for it" (I'd have the entire summer to train for it, and a benchmark with the May race) for a corral placement, or run the full so I have one under my belt before January. These are some of the rabbit holes my brain goes down.

A WDW race will probably never be for a PR for me....too much to see/do I think in those races.....it would be more about the atmosphere/experience (but also not wanting to be super significantly off the pace I trained for, if that makes sense.)

 

[Blue Caterpillar]

I may be wrong, but I think you could use a hand timed event as a POT as long as the result is published on a website. Hopefully someone else will know for sure?

 

[DopeyBadger]

Well the conundrum becomes, IF marathon weekend DOES happen in-person (and I somehow get a bib), I'd want to have a PoT to submit. I'm not sure my May race is chipped, but I KNOW that the October one is (assuming they don't fully virtualize that one again.) And if I want to have a PoT to submit, do I stick with the half in October and really "go for it" (I'd have the entire summer to train for it, and a benchmark with the May race) for a corral placement, or run the full so I have one under my belt before January. These are some of the rabbit holes my brain goes down.

A WDW race will probably never be for a PR for me....too much to see/do I think in those races.....it would be more about the atmosphere/experience (but also not wanting to be super significantly off the pace I trained for, if that makes sense.)

If the goal is a POT for WDW, then you're far better off with a 10 miler or HM in October than a marathon. If the goal is prep towards what a marathon will feel like, then do the marathon. But if the Disney marathon is about soaking in the atmosphere, then you don't need to worry about having a prior marathon under your belt as much.

You're projected at a 2:25 HM at the moment. So you're right on the cut line for a POT. I think the difference between having a POT and not will be rather significant moving forward if they maintain their new POT cutoff of 2.5 vs 2:45. So if it were me, I'd be aiming for the sub 2:30 HM as a POT as it will change the experience of WDW marathon weekend race day a reasonable bit. That's not to say you can't have a good experience from any corral. But rather I feel as if given the recent POT cutoff changes, that difference is going to be a little bit bigger. I have a feeling that the first non-POT corral will have roughly 38-40% of the entire marathon field in it. Whereas the first 4 corrals will encompass about 30% of the field. The rate is roughly the same no matter which corral you're in, but the difference between the front of the last POT corral and the front of the first non-POT corral, could be an hour or two of different experiences while waiting for the race to start. Not starting time differences, but rather what it's like to sit there and whether you worry about getting "out of position".

As far not having WDW be a PR level effort is perfectly fine, but the better trained/prepared you are for it the more enjoyable it will be. So you can max train for WDW despite it itself not being a PR level effort. As an example, let's say you were in 5 hour marathon shape heading into marathon weekend. Running a 6 hr marathon would be easier than running a 5.5 hr marathon. But let's say your training wasn't max effort and you went into marathon weekend in 5.5 hr shape. Running a 5.5 hr marathon would be very hard and a 6 hr marathon still reasonably hard.

I may be wrong, but I think you could use a hand timed event as a POT as long as the result is published on a website. Hopefully someone else will know for sure?

Yes, as long as the event has online results and was a real event I don't think you'll have an issue with POT submission.

 

[Kerry1957]

@DopeyBadger...I may be confused, but will @Herding_Cats need a 2:22 HM POT for the Disney Marathon timed corral, and/or a 2:30 HM POT for a Disney Half Marathon?

@Herding_Cats...Billy has mentioned it several times in the past, but you should also check out POT requirements for a 10-miler. I don't have his estimates in front of me, but basically the 10-mile pace is just a tiny bit faster than the HM pace, so it is easier to achieve. Of course, you have to find a 10-mile race which are not as numerous as HMs

 

[DopeyBadger]

@DopeyBadger...I may be confused, but will @Herding_Cats need a 2:22 HM POT for the Disney Marathon timed corral, and/or a 2:30 HM POT for a Disney Half Marathon?

@Kerry1957 Thanks for the correction.



The POT cutoff for the M is estimated to be 2:22:00.

@Herding_Cats...Billy has mentioned it several times in the past, but you should also check out POT requirements for a 10-miler. I don't have his estimates in front of me, but basically the 10-mile pace is just a tiny bit faster than the HM pace, so it is easier to achieve. Of course, you have to find a 10-mile race which are not as numerous as HMs

So this one is true for the Half Marathon POT, but I'm not as sure about the Marathon POT. If you're aiming for a HM POT, then the 10 miler seems like the best choice because it is the least aggressive. A 1:54 10 miler is 11:24 min/mile pace whereas the 2:30 HM is 11:26 min/mile pace. They use a conversion close to 1.026 for the 10 miler whereas the 10k, 12k, and 15k all use a ~1.05.

But I haven't seen the same to be true for the Marathon POT. Those seem to be closer to 1.079 for both the 10 miler and HM conversions to a M POT. So either a 10 miler or HM are equally as useful. If we believe that many newer runners become worse at conversions the further the distance because they haven't quite built up their endurance yet, then the 10 miler would win out in that case.

 

[Herding_Cats]

I have no idea if the results of my May race are published. And I knew, somewhere in the back of my brain, that 2:30 for a half was what I needed to be shooting for/be under. It’s far enough in the future that I obviously don’t need to figure it all out right now, and in-person races at Disney are probably unlikely. Like I’ve said before, I like to get everything worked out in my head and on paper in advance.

 

[Herding_Cats]

So with some digging (NOT on the race information page, of course) it looks like the May race IS chip timed, and there might be an online list of finish times, so fingers crossed for that. It also said the first half of the race is slightly downhill, and the 2nd half is slightly uphill which just sounds like a great time. HAHA!

There might be a 10mi race about 3 hours from my house in the beginning of August, (covid protocols will determine if they can run it this year....last year it was cancelled) so I got on their information update email list in case I need to run that for a PoT.

In other news, I had a song come on my spotify station while I was running about a week and a half ago that perfectly fit my natural cadence for my EA/B pace chart from last year. I dug through google and made a playlist of a bunch of songs that are within 4bpm of that one and have been using it this week and I can 100% shut my brain off and just run on the beat. I'm a little hesitant about this because it's about 164bpm. And I take pretty short strides on the treadmill. Should I plan on making a separate list for "pace" run days? I read through some other posts about cadence, and I'm not necessarily concerned about getting to a certain cadence (like 180) but more interested in if I should try to fit this current cadence to my pace runs with stride length or if I should plan on a slightly faster cadence AND stride length....I really feel like having a properly paced cadence will really help with my overall pacing when I get around to running outdoors.

 

[DopeyBadger]

It also said the first half of the race is slightly downhill, and the 2nd half is slightly uphill which just sounds like a great time. HAHA!

Good times for sure. Do they provide you with an elevation map of the course? Because I've found race director's definitions of "slight" to be deceiving sometimes. And additionally, some people's "slight" is other people's mountains. Wouldn't want you caught off guard on race day.

In other news, I had a song come on my spotify station while I was running about a week and a half ago that perfectly fit my natural cadence for my EA/B pace chart from last year. I dug through google and made a playlist of a bunch of songs that are within 4bpm of that one and have been using it this week and I can 100% shut my brain off and just run on the beat. I'm a little hesitant about this because it's about 164bpm. And I take pretty short strides on the treadmill. Should I plan on making a separate list for "pace" run days? I read through some other posts about cadence, and I'm not necessarily concerned about getting to a certain cadence (like 180) but more interested in if I should try to fit this current cadence to my pace runs with stride length or if I should plan on a slightly faster cadence AND stride length....I really feel like having a properly paced cadence will really help with my overall pacing when I get around to running outdoors.

So when Daniels discussed the idea of a cadence of 180 spm, he made another observation. The runners he was watching changed their speed by a variety of methods.

-Some maintained cadence and increased stride length
-Some maintained stride length and increased cadence
-Some increased both cadence and stride length

So the gist of it is that there are multiple potential ways in which you could increase your pace. It may come down to which is more natural to you. Personally, both my cadence and stride length increase when I increase pace.

Easy days at 9 min/mile = 172 spm and 1.04m stride length
LR at 7:48 min/mile = 179 spm and 1.15m stride length
HM Tempo at 6:44 min/mile = 184 spm and 1.30m stride length
10k at 6:22 min/mile = 191 spm and 1.32m stride length
Mile at 5:42 = 190 spm and 1.48m stride length
450m at 5:08 min/mile = 200 spm and 1.57m stride length

The one thing I'd say is I don't actively try and increase my stride length. I don't "reach" with my foot in order to increase the length of each stride. Because if done improperly that's when your foot fall will become ahead of your torso leading to a potentially bad angle of force on the bone. Rather when I try to increase pace I try to move my feet faster (cadence) and try to put more power into each step (which leads to an increase in stride length).

I attached two synopsis papers you may find interesting about the use of music in exercise.

 

[Herding_Cats]

I can't believe how lacking the actual race page is on info links. The good news is, that OTHER sites have all of this stuff if you are willing to dig through google. It does look like it's an extremely flat course (much moreso than the one in october.)

 

[DopeyBadger]

I can't believe how lacking the actual race page is on info links. The good news is, that OTHER sites have all of this stuff if you are willing to dig through google. It does look like it's an extremely flat course (much moreso than the one in october.)

View attachment 558699

https://ridewithgps.com/routes/6079892
And someone who ran the race in 2019 with GAP data: https://www.strava.com/activities/2399275534

The race is fairly flat. Between 260-370 feet of gain. So that's 20-28 feet per mile average. The GAP suggests a 3 second per mile difference than flat, so it'll cost you about 40 seconds over the course of the race against a totally flat race.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Hurray for a measurable improvement! Today is the first run I've had since I started running regularly this year that my heartrate stayed in my "cardio" zone the whole time, and didn't jump up into "peak" zone (which I think is above 155ish?) Yay!

 

[DopeyBadger]

Hurray for a measurable improvement! Today is the first run I've had since I started running regularly this year that my heartrate stayed in my "cardio" zone the whole time, and didn't jump up into "peak" zone (which I think is above 155ish?) Yay!

How did you calculate your HR zones?

 

[Herding_Cats]

i didn't calculate it. it's just what my fitbit says. I know there are tests and formulas based on that stuff to get really specific and personalized hr zones, but my fitbit and garmin both say around the same thing for those so I'm just taking the easy route and going with what they say. I haven't gotten that technical yet. It also FELT better than my other runs have from an effort standpoint.

 

[DopeyBadger]

That’s great from an effort standpoint!

They’re both likely using maxHR=220-age. An average for the human population, but a fairly large standard deviation. Let me know if you ever want to find something more specific.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Weekly wrap-up:

I miss Disney. I’ve already “fake-planned” and entire trip for MW including airfare, lodging, and a rental car. DH was teasing at dinner the other night that our kids need to have great paying jobs so when we retire they can help support my Disney habit.

This week was the start of my 2-week ramp to starting the Higdon HM plan.

Monday: 2 miles
Tuesday: 2 miles
Wednesday: 3 miles
Thursday: 2 miles
Friday: rest
Saturday: 2 miles + LIIFT4 chest/tris
Sunday: 60min of spin bike + LIIFT4 back/bis
The spin bike got cut off with 5 minutes to go by a screamed-so-hard she made herself sick toddler with a fever. And lifting will happen tomorrow on “rest” day since she has to be touching me all of the time now.

The weather is starting to warm up, and when the snowbanks on the road are gone I may start running outside, despite the cold temps. We are probably still a month away from the snow being gone though.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Week 0 of Higdon N2 Half training, otherwise known better as "I made 2 weeks of higdon-esque training to ramp up to the real thing) wrapped up today! I [finally] got a hydration vest in the CORRECT size with my "leftover" trip money and have been wearing it empty this week to get used to the feeling of it being on, fiddling with how tight to have the straps, etc. I think I'm going to freeze about a quart of water in it this next week for running and start to get used to having some weight in it. Running is feeling "less hard" each week, but I'm certainly not back to my "this feels easy" fitness level from when I started this program last year (although I had done 3 BOD programs and been running for 4 weeks before I got in here last year and got help with what I SHOULD be doing.)

I emailed with the TA we were working with last year for Princess to get on a "waiting" list for a MW weekend TA bib package if Disney decides to hold an in-person event. Casually contemplating the Goofy Challenge because now that I have gotten my 4 Princess Weekend medals, would I REALLY be happy with just getting ONE medal from a Disney race weekend? Probably not.

Weekly wrap up 3/1-3/7 :

-Monday: Supposed to be a rest day, but since I missed my lifting on Sunday (sick baby) I did LIIFT4 back/biceps
-Tuesday: 2 miles and pushed that day's lifting back a day because I couldn't fully straighten my arms without really focusing on it, and had a lot of discomfort. So sore. OOPS!
-Wednesday: 3 miles and liift4 shoulders
-Thursday: 2 miles and liift4 legs
-Friday: rest day. much needed with a congested clingy baby who was refusing to nap or sleep well all week.
-Saturday: 3 miles (did 1 mile at EA/B, 1.25 miles at LR, and the last .75 at HM pace.) This got interesting toward the end since my legs were definitely feeling Thursday's leg workout. Didn't fit in the lifting (again, AARG!)
-Sunday: Cross training day. 40min on the spin bike (and my legs are fried) and liift4 week 2 chest/triceps. This was the "circuit" workout, so it was 30min of quad-set lifting, and I shut it off when it got to the pushup burnout round because I really need to be able to do back/biceps tomorrow instead of my "rest" day to get back on track with my plan. These workouts really fry my grip strength, and I'm trying to balance lifting heavy enough to challenge myself a little bit, but also light enough that I don't screw up something in my hands/forearms like I did last time. (Legs day Friday, "long" run Saturday where I experimented with tempo just to see how everything felt, and then FTP test on Sunday.....I'm going to be SO SORE tomorrow.)

Speaking of the spin bike, I really enjoyed last week's workout (the trainer wasn't nearly as annoying as the other ones) so I looked up more stuff from him, and MOST of his workouts are "power zone" rides. So with some quick digging around on reddit I found how to add in ANOTHER app (Kinetic), link to the bike, and run it picture-in-a-picture with the peloton app to get power readouts and actual cadence (linking the bike with the peloton app) instead of just the cadence bar on the bike's computer. YAY FOR MORE INFORMATION! I did the FTP test and Kinetic assigned me zones based on that ride. Now I can do these hour-long endurance rides and actually know where I'm supposed to be instead of just winging it.

Teased DH about "are you ready to start your 10k training tomorrow?" this morning. "Monday is rest day. Don't strain yourself." (I have him scheduled with Mondays and Fridays off to accommodate his crazy week-day schedule with coaching all of the things, and basically working 2 other jobs on top of that.)

 

[Herding_Cats]

Last week was a dumpster fire that has smoldered into this week. I was determined to do everything "on its day" and that lasted exactly until Thursday.

Monday: rest as scheduled
Tuesday: 3 miles + shoulders
Wednesday: 3 miles (legs was a hiit workout so I didn't do it)
Thursday: attempted 3 miles about an hour and a half after dinner. (enchiladas) it didn't go well. managed 2 slow miles.
Friday: rest day (I guess I managed to do this?)
Saturday: supposed to do 4 miles; that didn't happen. didn't lift.
Sunday: supposed to cross train. attempted the 4 miles (again, after dinner) and got in 2. didn't lift.

I'm finding that on the days that I miss my workout during the baby's nap time, I've got about a 25% chance of actually getting the workout in. Things are just too hectic in the evenings, and it's only going to get worse in April when we have to figure out DS1's baseball schedule and us coaching DS2's middle school baseball team (AND potentially the middle school "B" team since we are having a hard time finding a coach for that.) Throw in trying to do our taxes, which has be awful this year and I finally gave up and am paying someone else to do them, get all of the paperwork packets together for baseball interest meetings, and the follow-up parent meeting (which apparently half of them "can't" make it) and organizing the team fundraiser, and a baby that wants to inexplicably wake up 3x a night again. Yaaaaaay. Pity party for 1 right here. Who needs to sleep anyway?

So far this week: mostly walked 2 miles on Monday (trying to "make up" for last week, another disaster evening run), and then we spent most of the day in the car yesterday because we got a new vehicle, so didn't get anything done yesterday either.

Today is my first pace run. I'm currently trying to stuff the baby full of an early lunch so I can put her down for a late nap do my run before the after-school hustle starts. I'm a little nervous because I haven't run above 12min/mi yet this year AND because I feel like it's been an entire week since I had a successful run. I'm "supposed" to run at around an 11:30 pace, and I will definitely slow it down if needed.

Got excited for about 2 seconds last week that I might be able to start running outside a bit since 90% of the snow was gone. And then yesterday was a snow day (no school, and a 5am call to let me know...yay for being up for the day 2.5 hours early!) and it's back in the low 20s and icy/slippery/slushy. Maybe next week......

 

[Herding_Cats]

Managed to salvage last week. My garmin has gone missing; I have absolutely no idea where it has gone and I've checked ALL of the usual places I set it when I'm not wearing it (and asked the sticky-fingered 9-year-old if he's "seen" it anywhere) but it hasn't turned up yet. That's pretty frustrating because I did NOT keep track of my mileage or times/pace this month because I was going to use the app to do it for me. Oh well. Not a big deal.

Monday: mostly walked 2 miles.

Tuesday: off day in favor of a roadtrip to get a new-to-us vehicle

Wednesday: FIRST PACE RUN of this training cycle. I took a few 1min walk breaks, but when I did run I managed to keep to my recommended pace. 3 miles.

Thursday: 3 miles, this felt SO much easier than the pace run from the previous day

Friday: rest day

Saturday: 5 mile long run. I was also nervous about this run because it's almost twice as long as what I'm "used to" but surprisingly enough, it felt really good. AND, this was the day after the baby slept the entire night. Coincidence that a full night of sleep equaled a good run? I don't think so. DH decided we needed to check in to a local hotel for the night to watch some of the NCAA tournament (and as kind of a treat for the kids....pool time for them) since we don't get any of the channels the games are on at our house. GO BLUE!

Sunday: did a bunch of outside work as my cross training. Sorted all of the middle school baseball program gear out so we could make a list of "needs" for our athletic director. Our program is transitioning from a club sport to a school-sponsored sport and DH is the coach, so there are a lot of logistics to deal with this year that we usually don't have to deal with.

I really needed that long run on Saturday mentally. After I basically missed a week and the subsequent 3 or so runs felt awful, I was having major doubts about the feasibility of the training program, and wondering if I had gone too deep down the rabbit hole too quickly (which is something I tend to do with new hobbies.) I think I'm going to scrap the lifting for now since our schedule is going to get really crazy and fitting in just the running is probably going to feel like enough of a chore without adding more on top of it.

 

[disneygpa]

My garmin has gone missing;

Congrats on all your training. Just a little suggestion. I don't know if you run with your cell phone (I chose not to) but if you do, Map My Run can record your runs on your phone. I'm sure there are also other apps. Maybe one of those would work until the missing Garmin returns home!?

 

[Herding_Cats]

right now all of my running is on the treadmill, so map my run wouldn't really do anything. the garmin was getting closer to matching my treadmill computer, but I was still editing the times/distances on that when i finished a run. I just wanted the convenience of having ALL of the data stored on the same thing for a month-to-month comparison, and a year-end total. It's not a huge deal that I don't have the garmin, but since it was a christmas gift I'm getting a small amount of stink-eye from the husband for not being able to locate it.